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Paulwny
11-14-2002, 11:07 AM
Why do so many people automatically assume that the oldest "star" player on a team must take on the role of team leader? A person's personality is the largest factor. Some people can't take on this role , it's not part of their nature.
When Frank talks to the press, good or bad, it's usually about Frank, not Frank's opinion of other players or what events are occuring in the club house. When fat ass Wells condemned Frank not playing after his injury Frank never demanded an apology when the extent of the injury was revealed.

Please don't assume I'm anti Konerko by my following statement.
Last season Konerko spoke to the press about the club house etc. Many here felt his statements were justified and this made him the team leader. Others felt Konerko should remember " What happens in the club house stays in the club house". Did the statements he made make him the team leader? Only the other players can answer that question. Did some say, "It's about time someone spoke up" or did others say "Who the hell does he think he is?". If Clayton had made any of those statements everbody would be screaming, "I told you he was a club house cancer". One man's cancer is another mans leader.

It's easy for players to condemn the front office/JR when their no longer paying their salary, as Durham has done. If Konerko wants to be the real team leader he should stand up and say what we all know " JR open up the wallet and obtain some quality free agents to put us over the top".

At one time Baines was the only sox star. No way, absolutely no way would his quiet personality allow him to assume the team leader role. Suppose in 5 yrs. Frank and Konerko are both gone, does anyone on this board expect Maggs, who has a Baines like personality, to all of a sudden step up and take on the role of team leader?

OK, start my crucifixion.

pearso66
11-14-2002, 11:28 AM
i agree with you 100% paulwny.
i dont think frank should HAVE to be team leader, and because he chooses not to, he shouldnt be shot down by fans and media, i know he's had his tiffs with manual, and such, but i for some reason view him as a quiet person who keeps to himself, if you are one of those, how are you going to lead. the way he leads is by being in that line up day in and day out, he's not a clubhouse leader, but when they are up to bat, you know he wants to help the team out how he can

duke of dorwood
11-14-2002, 11:52 AM
The definition of a leader may be different on this team. On this team it would seem the leader has to inspire, be a big brother to young people, and possibly be there for young players that dont get playing time while the Tinkering goes on. I think only Jose Valentin can fill that role as I look at the roster. Maybe Keith Foulke.

OneDog
11-14-2002, 01:25 PM
If Frank is being seen as a leader, it's because ther is an abscence of true leadership in the clubhouse. If no one on the team has the type of personality to step up and be a leader, the new guys will look up to the longest tenured players with the most skill. That's just the way it is by default. Luckily for the entire Sox team, Frank shouldn't have to be considered a leader. Paulie, Jose, and even Buerhle have good leadership qualities and Frank can relegate himself to simply doing his job.

RKMeibalane
11-14-2002, 01:51 PM
Frank's leadership, or lack thereof, is yet another issue that has been blown out of proportion by the Chicago media, particularly Jay Mariotti, who has nothing better to do but whine about Comiskey Park and the team that plays there.

I have never understood why people think Thomas should be a leader. He has tried to be more vocal in the past, but he always gets himself into trouble because he says the wrong thing. I would think the media would have realized by now that Frank is at his best when he can just do his job and get on with his life.

I think the increased media attention was a small part of the reason for his struggles last season. After he stopped talking the media, he started showing signs of coming around, and he played well during the final six weeks of the season, once people stopped bothering him.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year. Assuming Frank is back with the team, I am left wondering how the media will react. The Moron has wanted him to leave since Abe Lincoln was President of the United States. Thomas does not have to lead with his mouth. He leads with his bat. His offense is what has made him a great player. He should be allowed to focus on that.

WinningUgly!
11-14-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I have never understood why people think Thomas should be a leader. He has tried to be more vocal in the past, but he always gets himself into trouble because he says the wrong thing. I would think the media would have realized by now that Frank is at his best when he can just do his job and get on with his life.


The problem with Frank is that when he speaks everybody over analyzes everything he says. The media & many Sox fans dissect every word out of his mouth & spin everything into a negative. Frank has made plenty of mistakes in the past & said more than his share of dumb things. I guess that's why it's become the thing to do for the Mark Giangrecos & Bruce Wolfs of the the world to sneak in constant one liner digs at Frank whenever his name comes up. Frank Thomas could discover the cure for the common cold & he'd still be ripped for putting doctors out of work.

Iwritecode
11-14-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Frank Thomas could discover the cure for the common cold & he'd still be ripped for putting doctors out of work.

That looks like signature material right there. Maybe POTW?

Paulwny
11-14-2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
The problem with Frank is that when he speaks everybody over analyzes everything he says. The media & many Sox fans dissect every word out of his mouth & spin everything into a negative

I've only seen one other player have this love/hate relationship with the home town fans and have this much home town negative press, Ted Williams. He also did not take on the team leader role.

Jjav829
11-14-2002, 06:55 PM
I don't think Frank, nor anyone else should be forced to be a leader. As stated before, no one can become a leader. You have to be born with that trait. I think most players are starting to look at Konerko as a clubhouse leader. I don't think the best player on any team has to be the leader, and is some cases, they aren't. I don't really know if you could say that that isn't the case on the Sox, because while Magglio isn't neccessarily the vocal leader, he is somewhat of a leader. Hes in the leader by example mold. Bonds isn't the leader on the Giants. Sosa isn't on the Cubs. Ramirez isn't on the Red Sox. And if you were going to name the leader of the Sox, Maggs probably wouldn't be the first name you would say. So there are a few examples of good players (all the best on their team) who aren't leaders. Of course there are examples of guys like Arod who are leaders of their team and also the best player. But is many cases the guys who are leaders tend to be the Biggio's or Vina's of the game.

Frank doesn't have to be a leader. No player HAS to be a leader. Just show up, play hard, treat your teammates and coaches with respect and you won't have a problem.

chisox06
11-14-2002, 11:02 PM
I dont mind if Frank is the kind of guy that will take up a leadership poisition or not. The fact is though, by his actions in the clubhouse (walking out in Spring Training, Not taking batting practice, not being in the dugout etc) he draws negative press, and eventually that can weigh down the clubhouse, and I believe it did last year. When Frank volunteers to do things that are not within the best regards for the clubhouse, thats when I get upset. I dont think its a matter of team leadership for Frank, he's made it perfectly clear that he is not a leader, and he doesnt want to be. If Frank hits the way he can hit, and is a productive member of the team on the field and outside of the field then thats all you can ask for from the guy, but when he deliberetly goes out and does things that you know will bring negative attention to himself and the team, thats where you have to draw the line.

guillen4life13
11-15-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
I dont mind if Frank is the kind of guy that will take up a leadership poisition or not. The fact is though, by his actions in the clubhouse (walking out in Spring Training, Not taking batting practice, not being in the dugout etc) he draws negative press, and eventually that can weigh down the clubhouse, and I believe it did last year. When Frank volunteers to do things that are not within the best regards for the clubhouse, thats when I get upset. I dont think its a matter of team leadership for Frank, he's made it perfectly clear that he is not a leader, and he doesnt want to be. If Frank hits the way he can hit, and is a productive member of the team on the field and outside of the field then thats all you can ask for from the guy, but when he deliberetly goes out and does things that you know will bring negative attention to himself and the team, thats where you have to draw the line.

in terms of the not taking b.p., not being in the dugout and when he walks out of spring training, he generally has some reasons (the walking out though, i can't give you a reasonable explanation).

in terms of the not being in the dugout, it's somewhat known that frank looks at tape of his hitting to try and analyze the mistakes he is making, so that he knows what to correct for his next at bat. that's striving for improvement.

the not taking batting practice may be the same thing, and/or he might be doing stretches to make sure his muscles don't tighten, and so on (he's got a helluva lot more muscle than anyone else on the team, and the more buff you are, the more likely your muscles will tighten and cramp up). I don't have a real explanation, they're just possibilities for this one.

RKMeibalane
11-15-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
in terms of the not taking b.p., not being in the dugout and when he walks out of spring training, he generally has some reasons (the walking out though, i can't give you a reasonable explanation).

in terms of the not being in the dugout, it's somewhat known that frank looks at tape of his hitting to try and analyze the mistakes he is making, so that he knows what to correct for his next at bat. that's striving for improvement.

the not taking batting practice may be the same thing, and/or he might be doing stretches to make sure his muscles don't tighten, and so on (he's got a helluva lot more muscle than anyone else on the team, and the more buff you are, the more likely your muscles will tighten and cramp up). I don't have a real explanation, they're just possibilities for this one.

The media always tries to put a negative spin on whatever Frank does. If he stays late for extra batting practice, people will assume he's struggling. If he stops to help an elderly woman cross the street, Mariotti will write an article about "Thomas mugging old women."

I want Frank to stay in Chicago, but I would understand if he decided to leave. There are some people who just love to hate him, if for no other reason, because he plays for the Sox. Others hate him because they don't know of any other course of action where he is concerned. I think that Thomas has been disliked by Chicago for so long that most people probably can't even conceive the idea of him beeing cheered or him earning the respect he deserves.