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guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 09:51 PM
ok. i feel stupid saying this... and most of me doesn't agree with what i'm about to write, but hell, it sparks controversy so here:

who are the free agent starting pitchers (as it stands now) that will be on the market next offseason? Honestly, this ain't gonna be the sox year... unless something extremely weird happens. I think there's a good possibility that either Rauch, Garland, or Wright will develop into that #2 starter we need, and the remnants go further down in the rotation. These guys have the stuff, and I think that don cooper might be able to help them out a lot more than :nardi did. On top of that, by 2004, Kris Honel should be ready to come up, and could fill the 5 spot in the rotation. I think (unless kw screws it up) 2004 could have for us a rotation of (can ya dig it?) GOOD starting pitchers. And already we have a good foundation of bullpen pitchers (valentine, munoz, royce ring, foulke, marte, etc.)

The offense should be set and hopefully will gel by then, with a lineup like this:

2B Jiminez
3B Crede
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
LF Lee
CF Borchard
SS Valentin
C Olivo


couple years down the road, that doesn't look too bad to me.

Rotation of:

Buehrle
Rauch
Garland
Wright
Honel

Bullpen

Marte
Foulke
Munoz
Ring
Valentine
Malone
Biddle


how's that look a couple years down the road? to me that looks like a contender, if these guys play hard.

Daver
11-13-2002, 10:00 PM
Valentin will not be with the club in 2004 unless he takes a big paycut,he is only under contract for next year.

If El Vaco is still grazing in left feild I will be surprised.

Jiminez is at best a utility guy that will replace Tony G. when his contract is up after next season.

Kris probably won't see the big leagues till 2005,at the earliest,granted he has a lot of talent,but it is going to take awhile for him to become a pro pitcher,and the Sox are not going to rush him.

guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by daver
Valentin will not be with the club in 2004 unless he takes a big paycut,he is only under contract for next year.

If El Vaco is still grazing in left feild I will be surprised.

Jiminez is at best a utility guy that will replace Tony G. when his contract is up after next season.

Kris probably won't see the big leagues till 2005,at the earliest,granted he has a lot of talent,but it is going to take awhile for him to become a pro pitcher,and the Sox are not going to rush him.

if Jiminez shows he can produce in 2003, then I would be all for him starting in 2004. as far as carlos, it's actually "El Vaca." Vaca is cow. Vaco i don't think is a word. With animals they don't have the feminine or masculine thing going on. it's like you say "el tenista", not "el tenisto." i might be wrong but i'm almost positive on this one.


Next year Honel will probably pitch in AA, and maybe jump to AAA, correct? If that's the case then what would stop him from making the bigs in 2004?

Daver
11-13-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
if Jiminez shows he can produce in 2003, then I would be all for him starting in 2004. as far as carlos, it's actually "El Vaca." Vaca is cow. Vaco i don't think is a word. With animals they don't have the feminine or masculine thing going on. it's like you say "el tenista", not "el tenisto." i might be wrong but i'm almost positive on this one.


Next year Honel will probably pitch in AA, and maybe jump to AAA, correct? If that's the case then what would stop him from making the bigs in 2004?

I do not know spanish,El Vaco was provided for me by others,but I digress...

Kris will start the season at high A Winston-Salem,he was promoted there late last season,as I have said before the Sox have no interest in rushing him,I would like to think they have learned their lesson.

Jerry_Manuel
11-13-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jiminez is at best a utility guy that will replace Tony G. when his contract is up after next season.


In your world that maybe so, but I don't think the Sox feel that way.

OfficerKarkovice
11-13-2002, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jiminez is at best a utility guy that will replace Tony G. when his contract is up after next season.

Hey Nostradamus...thanks for clearing up for all us mortals how the rest of his career is going to turn out.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2002, 10:44 PM
Some of the fans talk about Jimenez like he's the second coming of Bret Boone, Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg and Davey Johnson.

Just one sobering question...when was the last time the White Sox organization pulled the wool over the eyes of another team in a trade? (Maybe when Jumbotron Ron got Valentin and Eldred???)

Jimenez got dumped by two organizations for a reason.

Let's wait and see what he does before annointing him a savior of the infield.

Daver may turn out to be more correct in his assesment then some other fans (and I suspect that he will be closer to the truth.)

Lip

Jerry_Manuel
11-13-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Some of the fans talk about Jimenez like he's the second coming of Bret Boone, Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg and Davey Johnson.

Just one sobering question...when was the last time the White Sox organization pulled the wool over the eyes of another team in a trade? (Maybe when Jumbotron Ron got Valentin and Eldred???)

Let's wait and see what he does before annointing him a savior of the infield.

Daver may turn out to be more correct in his assesment then some other fans (and I suspect that he will be closer to the truth.)


I'm not saying Daver is right or wrong, just that the Sox feel he is starting material.

bc2k
11-13-2002, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13

Rotation of:

Buehrle
Rauch
Garland
Wright
Honel

Bullpen

Marte
Foulke
Munoz
Ring
Valentine
Malone
Biddle


how's that look a couple years down the road? to me that looks like a contender, if these guys play hard.

Why do you and most everyone else on this board rank Garland higher than Wright for 2003, and in your case, 2004. Wright made great progress in the second half of 2002. I believe he won 6 of his last 7. Garland is still idling with flashes of good performances. Outside of his name and what we've been force-fed to believe, why does everyone rank Garland above Wright?

If KW has to decide between JGar and Wright for Colon, it better be Garland. Lee, Garland, and Malone for Bartolo sounds good to me.

And does anyone else remember how good Gary Glover was as a set-up man? He better be pitching the 8th innings come 2003.

2003

Buehrle
Colon
Wright
Ritchie
Rauch

Biddle
Parque? Ginter?
Porzio/Wunsch/doesn't matter
Osuna
Marte
Glover
Foulke

Buehrle, Colon, Moyer, Wright, Rauch should be the starting 5 if the Sox somehow get Colon and Moyer. Ritchie then becomes expendable.

OfficerKarkovice
11-13-2002, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I'm not saying Daver is right or wrong

I am not saying that he is right or wrong either...just that he feels that he knows:

A) how every players career will turn out, no matter how young they may be based on what he has seen from them so far. Things change...a lot of things change. Look at the great pitchers in the league today...Johnson, Schilling, Clemens, Maddox, Glavine...old, old, old, old, old...VERY few players are superstars at the age where most of our guys are right now. And...

B) that he apparently (along with many other people around here and in general), knows more than Major League GM's, managers, etc. who do this thing for a living. They are professionals and they are where they are for a reason. I have a hard time believing that Daver would want KW telling him how to fix Uncle Carl's crapper when it clogs.

guillen4life13
11-14-2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I am not saying that he is right or wrong either...just that he feels that he knows:

A) how every players career will turn out, no matter how young they may be based on what he has seen from them so far. Things change...a lot of things change. Look at the great pitchers in the league today...Johnson, Schilling, Clemens, Maddox, Glavine...old, old, old, old, old...VERY few players are superstars at the age where most of our guys are right now. And...

B) that he apparently (along with many other people around here and in general), knows more than Major League GM's, managers, etc. who do this thing for a living. They are professionals and they are where they are for a reason. I have a hard time believing that Daver would want KW telling him how to fix Uncle Carl's crapper when it clogs.

lmao!

hold2dibber
11-14-2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Why do you and most everyone else on this board rank Garland higher than Wright for 2003, and in your case, 2004. Wright made great progress in the second half of 2002. I believe he won 6 of his last 7. Garland is still idling with flashes of good performances. Outside of his name and what we've been force-fed to believe, why does everyone rank Garland above Wright?

If KW has to decide between JGar and Wright for Colon, it better be Garland. Lee, Garland, and Malone for Bartolo sounds good to me.

And does anyone else remember how good Gary Glover was as a set-up man? He better be pitching the 8th innings come 2003.

2003

Buehrle
Colon
Wright
Ritchie
Rauch

Biddle
Parque? Ginter?
Porzio/Wunsch/doesn't matter
Osuna
Marte
Glover
Foulke

Buehrle, Colon, Moyer, Wright, Rauch should be the starting 5 if the Sox somehow get Colon and Moyer. Ritchie then becomes expendable.

Excellent point on Wright vs. Garland. Wright's K/BB ratio was WAY better than Garland's too, which makes me think that Wright may be closer to "turning the corner" than Garland is. Wright's only real problem last year was avoiding the big inning and I think with a little maturity and finesse he'll overcome that.

One point/question on Ritchie. As I understand it, if the Sox bring him back next year they'd have to pay him at least something like 75% of his salary last year (which was, I believe, about $3.5 million). Therefore, I would predict that if the Sox add Colon and/or Moyer and/or Lidle (all of whom would cost relatively big bucks), Ritchie's stay with the Sox would be over because they would rather run Rauch or Biddle out there at $300,000 than Ritchie at $2.75 million.

doublem23
11-14-2002, 09:35 AM
I think Garland is rated in higher regard than Wright because he is starting to be more consistant than Danny, IMO. Granted, Garland has his bad days, but overall, last year he had more peaks than Dan and also, it seemed like he dipped into fewer valleys. Wright is talented, don't get me wrong, and I think he's well on his way to becoming a solid starter; but when he's off.... HE IS OFF and it is excruiatingly painful to watch.

Just my opinion, of course, but Jon has always looked like he's going to develop into a better pitcher than Dan.