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MaggPipes
11-13-2002, 05:22 PM
I don't know why any of you are apossed to bringing this guy in....
We all know the Sox would NEVER put up the money for Glavine or Maddux. Moyer may be old guys, but guess what??????
He isn't a power pitcher, he could probably pitch til he was 45 he only throws in the mid to low 80's and is very successful, maybe he could teach some of our young guys a bit about control. He also would be a heck of a #2. I would be very content with this rotation in 2003.

Buehrle
Moyer
Garland
Rauch
Wright

Buehrle and Moyer both would have 3 Era's and Garland will be close, Wright is getting better, and Rauch pitched awesome the last part of the year when his arm was finally coming back some....
Also Keith Foulke COULD be thrown in there but i would rather keep him closing where he should be, with him and Marte we would have one heck of a 8th and 9th inning combo.
Also i like to rip Kenny Williams as much as all of you, but the only thing you ever talk about is the bad things.....how about the Marte trade for the all hyped pitcher what is his name? You don't even know.....I like then way he aproaches it....he may take some big risks and get burned.....but i think he will learn to be smarter w/ those.
Anyway, to me Moyer is a MUST..

guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by MaggPipes
I don't know why any of you are apossed to bringing this guy in....
We all know the Sox would NEVER put up the money for Glavine or Maddux. Moyer may be old guys, but guess what??????
He isn't a power pitcher, he could probably pitch til he was 45 he only throws in the mid to low 80's and is very successful, maybe he could teach some of our young guys a bit about control. He also would be a heck of a #2. I would be very content with this rotation in 2003.

Buehrle
Moyer
Garland
Rauch
Wright

Buehrle and Moyer both would have 3 Era's and Garland will be close, Wright is getting better, and Rauch pitched awesome the last part of the year when his arm was finally coming back some....
Also Keith Foulke COULD be thrown in there but i would rather keep him closing where he should be, with him and Marte we would have one heck of a 8th and 9th inning combo.
Also i like to rip Kenny Williams as much as all of you, but the only thing you ever talk about is the bad things.....how about the Marte trade for the all hyped pitcher what is his name? You don't even know.....I like then way he aproaches it....he may take some big risks and get burned.....but i think he will learn to be smarter w/ those.
Anyway, to me Moyer is a MUST..

the reason the marte trade tends to get me (and many of us) a lil bit pissed off is because he was going to be released anyway. we could have landed him and kept matt guerrier (yea, so matt guerrier had a bad year... if you can get something for free, take it).

and the reason we all despise kenny williams is because the bad deals he has made thoroughly outnumber the good, and his only good deals were extremely small. david wells? todd ritchie?? lemme tell u, pittsburgh recieved to good young arms in exchange for todd ritchies glass arm (who would have known then... i understand)... and claimed ritchie was a capable #2 starter, when on a contender, Ritchie is at best a #3, if not #4 starter.

woo... edging closer to becoming a WSI Personality.

hold2dibber
11-13-2002, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by MaggPipes
I don't know why any of you are apossed to bringing this guy in....
We all know the Sox would NEVER put up the money for Glavine or Maddux. Moyer may be old guys, but guess what??????
He isn't a power pitcher, he could probably pitch til he was 45 he only throws in the mid to low 80's and is very successful, maybe he could teach some of our young guys a bit about control. He also would be a heck of a #2. I would be very content with this rotation in 2003.

Buehrle
Moyer
Garland
Rauch
Wright

Buehrle and Moyer both would have 3 Era's and Garland will be close, Wright is getting better, and Rauch pitched awesome the last part of the year when his arm was finally coming back some....
Also Keith Foulke COULD be thrown in there but i would rather keep him closing where he should be, with him and Marte we would have one heck of a 8th and 9th inning combo.
Also i like to rip Kenny Williams as much as all of you, but the only thing you ever talk about is the bad things.....how about the Marte trade for the all hyped pitcher what is his name? You don't even know.....I like then way he aproaches it....he may take some big risks and get burned.....but i think he will learn to be smarter w/ those.
Anyway, to me Moyer is a MUST..

Well, I'm all for giving credit where it is due (e.g., the Marte/Guerrier trade, the Singleton/Harris trade and the Bradford/Olivo trade) but realistically, KW has taken a 95 win team and turned it into an 81 win team in two years. He has made some major mistakes (David Wells, Royce Clayton, Todd Ritchie) and, from various sources, has earned the distrust, fi not hatred, of many of the players. His record speaks for itself. With that said, I'm not convinced that he might not turn out, eventually, to be a decent GM; I'm just sick of the Sox being the organization where guys learn on the job.

As to Moyer, I'd like to see him here, but as with all free agents, the question is the cost. And, because he is so old, the number of years is an issue, too. But I feel pretty confident that he'll be an effective pitcher for another two or three years. But I still would rather trade for someone like Colon or Al Leiter or Javier Vazquez.

Daver
11-13-2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
the reason the marte trade tends to get me (and many of us) a lil bit pissed off is because he was going to be released anyway. we could have landed him and kept matt guerrier (yea, so matt guerrier had a bad year... if you can get something for free, take it).



I corrected that line of thinking at the time and I will correct it again,Marte was NOT going to be released,he was going to be put on waivers for the purpose of sending him to the AAA ballclub,had anyone claimed him he would have been pulled back from waivers and would have spent the season on the MLB roster.

jeremyb1
11-13-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by daver
I corrected that line of thinking at the time and I will correct it again,Marte was NOT going to be released,he was going to be put on waivers for the purpose of sending him to the AAA ballclub,had anyone claimed him he would have been pulled back from waivers and would have spent the season on the MLB roster.

at the time i remember it being reported as an issue of lacking roster spots on pittsburg's part. they also had sauerbeck, a decent lefty, and the reports described it as though marte would probably lose a spot to him and then have to be put though waivers since he wasn't going to make the roster. someone would've had to have been sent down that made their opening day roster correct? also, there were a number of reports that the pirates were unhappy with marte because he showed fatigue and his pitches had flattened out after winter ball suggesting they were going to cut him loose.

Daver
11-13-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
at the time i remember it being reported as an issue of lacking roster spots on pittsburg's part. they also had sauerbeck, a decent lefty, and the reports described it as though marte would probably lose a spot to him and then have to be put though waivers since he wasn't going to make the roster. someone would've had to have been sent down that made their opening day roster correct? also, there were a number of reports that the pirates were unhappy with marte because he showed fatigue and his pitches had flattened out after winter ball suggesting they were going to cut him loose.

I am speaking from quotes from the Pittsburgh GM made at the time,and Kip Wells still had an option year,so he could have been sent down if needed.

guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by daver
I corrected that line of thinking at the time and I will correct it again,Marte was NOT going to be released,he was going to be put on waivers for the purpose of sending him to the AAA ballclub,had anyone claimed him he would have been pulled back from waivers and would have spent the season on the MLB roster.

thanks. now i know.

THIS IS MY 500th POST!!! WOO!! :cool: :cool:

guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
thanks. now i know.

THIS IS MY 500th POST!!! WOO!! :cool: :cool:

wait how many posts are needed to become a "WSI Personality?"

guillen4life13
11-13-2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
wait how many posts are needed to become a "WSI Personality?"

whoops now i know. i thought it was only 500. it was 501.

Jjav829
11-13-2002, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
wait how many posts are needed to become a "WSI Personality?"

Your there.

Jerry_Manuel
11-13-2002, 07:54 PM
I don't know about this.

If this team was a real World Series contender this would be fine. However, they are not at that point right now.

So, Moyer will come here and might be able to beat the Twins because he is a lefty. That's all fine and well, but if he would be our number two starter in the playoffs against a Hudson or a Mussina, they would get killed.

duke of dorwood
11-13-2002, 08:37 PM
We are not a World Series contender. Too many unproven guys being plugged in right now. The Kids Can Play-but not well into October the way things stand right now

RichH55
11-13-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by daver
I corrected that line of thinking at the time and I will correct it again,Marte was NOT going to be released,he was going to be put on waivers for the purpose of sending him to the AAA ballclub,had anyone claimed him he would have been pulled back from waivers and would have spent the season on the MLB roster.


Exactly.....give credit where credit is due...this was a win for KW

RichH55
11-13-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I don't know about this.

If this team was a real World Series contender this would be fine. However, they are not at that point right now.

So, Moyer will come here and might be able to beat the Twins because he is a lefty. That's all fine and well, but if he would be our number two starter in the playoffs against a Hudson or a Mussina, they would get killed.


Why would he get killed? That seems like a big pessimistic jump in reason to me

RichH55
11-13-2002, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by MaggPipes
I don't know why any of you are apossed to bringing this guy in....
We all know the Sox would NEVER put up the money for Glavine or Maddux. Moyer may be old guys, but guess what??????
He isn't a power pitcher, he could probably pitch til he was 45 he only throws in the mid to low 80's and is very successful, maybe he could teach some of our young guys a bit about control. He also would be a heck of a #2. I would be very content with this rotation in 2003.

Buehrle
Moyer
Garland
Rauch
Wright

Buehrle and Moyer both would have 3 Era's and Garland will be close, Wright is getting better, and Rauch pitched awesome the last part of the year when his arm was finally coming back some....
Also Keith Foulke COULD be thrown in there but i would rather keep him closing where he should be, with him and Marte we would have one heck of a 8th and 9th inning combo.
Also i like to rip Kenny Williams as much as all of you, but the only thing you ever talk about is the bad things.....how about the Marte trade for the all hyped pitcher what is his name? You don't even know.....I like then way he aproaches it....he may take some big risks and get burned.....but i think he will learn to be smarter w/ those.
Anyway, to me Moyer is a MUST..


Welcome to the club! I've been harping about Moyer for a month now.....had to post about something since Royce is finally gone

Jerry_Manuel
11-13-2002, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Why would he get killed? That seems like a big pessimistic jump in reason to me

Beating the Twins isn't that tough, since they struggle against lefties. I find it hard to believe that Moyer would be able to shut down the Yanks or whomever in the playoffs.

RichH55
11-14-2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Beating the Twins isn't that tough, since they struggle against lefties. I find it hard to believe that Moyer would be able to shut down the Yanks or whomever in the playoffs.

But do you agree with the assesment he is a true # 2, as I do? He should be able to keep you in a game with the Yanks or whoever come playoff time....our offense is supposed to score 1,000 runs next year, do you think Moyer holding the other team to 4 over 6 and a third should be enough for an offense like that? One man usually doesnt lose a game