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Lip Man 1
11-11-2002, 10:50 PM
The Sporting News has had their free agents preview report out now since last Thursday.

I looked through all the individual team reports and thought I'd throw out a few names that the Sox (and Sox fans) might want to consider. These are realistic players for the Sox, you won't find Glavine, Clemens or Maddux here (because of the Sox incompetent ownership)

Some of you will laugh at some of the names, others will agree, some will be totally brain dead over them (oh wait, that's Cub fans!) but perhaps it will stimulate discussion.

So in no particular order here goes.....

John Flaherty - C (Tampa Bay) The report says this about him "Flaherty was largely a backup the last two years, but his presence and professionalism were valuable." I seem to recall he's always hit well against the Sox (including a game winning two run 9th inning home run off Howry in August 2000?) and he might bring more to the table then Johnson or (shudder) Paul.

Brian Anderson - P (Arizona) Would the Sox take a shot? He's left handed and has had some success in the past (although the D'backs have been a superior team the past few years compared with the Sox)

Steve Parris -P (Toronto) This is what the report said "A team should make every effort to sign Parris to a one year contract with a second year option. His stats in 2002 should be thrown out because he was still within 12 months of right shoulder surgery. When healthy, he's a smart, six or seven inning solid starting pitcher who would fill out a rotation. Opening day 2003 will be 18 months since the surgery."

Mike Fetters - P (Arizona) I contend the Sox need middle relief help almost as badly as starting help. Fetters is an experienced relief guy who pitched in playoff situations. I don't know what his asking price would be, but if I were the Sox, I'd take a look. (He can't be any worse then clowns like Matt Ginter and Jim Parque!)

Jimmy Haynes -P (Cincinnati) I haven't seen his name mentioned ANYWHERE on the WSI boards. He won 17 games last season. The question is was that a fluke?

Brian Moehler -P (Cincinnati) Here's what TSN says "Moehler will be 31 next year and is still in the prime of a career interrupted by injury. He has reached double figures in wins four times with Detroit so he knows how to win in less then ideal situations." Like with so many other pitchers the question is, will he be healthy?

Mike Jackson -P (Minnesota) The Twins didn't pick up his option but he's a veteran set up man and has been a closer in the past. Throws hard, has a ton of postseason experience (with Cleveland and Houston.)

Shane Reynolds -P (Houston) The Astros didn't pick up his option but would like to get him back at a lower price. Has been injured in parts of the past three seasons. When healthy (that's the big question again) is a solid, reliable #2 (just what the Sox need!). Character guy, good team player, I've known him since he pitched in high school in Louisiana so I can vouch for him on that account.

Dan Pleasac - P (Los Angeles) He's older then dirt, but is left handed. Stated in a story last year that he was strongly considering retiring unless he was traded to the White Sox! He grew up a Sox fan. He might have enough left to be a second lefty out of the pen. (There's no law that says you can't have more then one left hander in the pen! The Sox in 93-94 for example had THREE of them, all very good, in Radinsky, Cook and Assenmacher)

Steve Trachsel -P (N.Y. Mets) Some of you at WSI have been pushing for him very strongly. Here's some stats that are SHOCKING! from TSN "Trachsel's 3.37 ERA last season was the 4th best among all free agent pitchers behind Maddux, Glavine and Moyer." Or how about this one? "Since the 2001 All Star Break, Trachsel is 20-14 with a 3.17 ERA. He never has had an arm injury, so a three or four year deal would be a comfortable idea." (Of course not according to the Sox!) I pushed to get him in July 2000, I don't know about right now though.

Mike Timlin -P (Philadelphia) Another veteran middle man / set up guy who can also close. Has playoff experience and a good slider for an out pitch.

Brian Boehringer -P (Pittsburgh) Former Sox farm hand who found success later in his career. Pitched well with some bad teams (San Diego, Pittsburgh) as well as good ones (Yankees) Still another experienced middle man.

Andy Benes -P (St.Louis) Will the real Andy Benes please sign in. Was it the guy who was thinking about retiring last June or the guy who came back from a minor league assignment, focused, finally injury free and pitched better then practically anybody in the National League from July on? Would he be to big a risk, pitching in a new league?

Those are my thoughts...now let the bashing begin!!!

Lip

Dadawg_77
11-12-2002, 12:43 AM
What about Woody Williams? He has some American league experience under his belt. Not sure if he will be out of the sox range but might be a good pickup.

Lip Man 1
11-12-2002, 01:17 AM
According to MLB.com, Williams himself said he's been contacted by 11 teams. He named them off, they added up to 11.

The Sox were NOT one of them.

Lip

RichH55
11-12-2002, 01:44 AM
Pleasac would be a solid addition......I think calling Ginter a clown ala Parque is unfair...I always thought(still think) Ginter can be a good reliever for a number of clubs(this one included)

Vsahajpal
11-12-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Pleasac would be a solid addition......I think calling Ginter a clown ala Parque is unfair...I always thought(still think) Ginter can be a good reliever for a number of clubs(this one included)


I'd rather they go with Arnaldo Munoz than Plesac, Dan's best days are clearly behind him.

hold2dibber
11-12-2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Sporting News has had their free agents preview report out now since last Thursday.

I looked through all the individual team reports and thought I'd throw out a few names that the Sox (and Sox fans) might want to consider. These are realistic players for the Sox, you won't find Glavine, Clemens or Maddux here (because of the Sox incompetent ownership)

Some of you will laugh at some of the names, others will agree, some will be totally brain dead over them (oh wait, that's Cub fans!) but perhaps it will stimulate discussion.

So in no particular order here goes.....

John Flaherty - C (Tampa Bay) The report says this about him "Flaherty was largely a backup the last two years, but his presence and professionalism were valuable." I seem to recall he's always hit well against the Sox (including a game winning two run 9th inning home run off Howry in August 2000?) and he might bring more to the table then Johnson or (shudder) Paul.

Brian Anderson - P (Arizona) Would the Sox take a shot? He's left handed and has had some success in the past (although the D'backs have been a superior team the past few years compared with the Sox)

Steve Parris -P (Toronto) This is what the report said "A team should make every effort to sign Parris to a one year contract with a second year option. His stats in 2002 should be thrown out because he was still within 12 months of right shoulder surgery. When healthy, he's a smart, six or seven inning solid starting pitcher who would fill out a rotation. Opening day 2003 will be 18 months since the surgery."

Mike Fetters - P (Arizona) I contend the Sox need middle relief help almost as badly as starting help. Fetters is an experienced relief guy who pitched in playoff situations. I don't know what his asking price would be, but if I were the Sox, I'd take a look. (He can't be any worse then clowns like Matt Ginter and Jim Parque!)

Jimmy Haynes -P (Cincinnati) I haven't seen his name mentioned ANYWHERE on the WSI boards. He won 17 games last season. The question is was that a fluke?

Brian Moehler -P (Cincinnati) Here's what TSN says "Moehler will be 31 next year and is still in the prime of a career interrupted by injury. He has reached double figures in wins four times with Detroit so he knows how to win in less then ideal situations." Like with so many other pitchers the question is, will he be healthy?

Mike Jackson -P (Minnesota) The Twins didn't pick up his option but he's a veteran set up man and has been a closer in the past. Throws hard, has a ton of postseason experience (with Cleveland and Houston.)

Shane Reynolds -P (Houston) The Astros didn't pick up his option but would like to get him back at a lower price. Has been injured in parts of the past three seasons. When healthy (that's the big question again) is a solid, reliable #2 (just what the Sox need!). Character guy, good team player, I've known him since he pitched in high school in Louisiana so I can vouch for him on that account.

Dan Pleasac - P (Los Angeles) He's older then dirt, but is left handed. Stated in a story last year that he was strongly considering retiring unless he was traded to the White Sox! He grew up a Sox fan. He might have enough left to be a second lefty out of the pen. (There's no law that says you can't have more then one left hander in the pen! The Sox in 93-94 for example had THREE of them, all very good, in Radinsky, Cook and Assenmacher)

Steve Trachsel -P (N.Y. Mets) Some of you at WSI have been pushing for him very strongly. Here's some stats that are SHOCKING! from TSN "Trachsel's 3.37 ERA last season was the 4th best among all free agent pitchers behind Maddux, Glavine and Moyer." Or how about this one? "Since the 2001 All Star Break, Trachsel is 20-14 with a 3.17 ERA. He never has had an arm injury, so a three or four year deal would be a comfortable idea." (Of course not according to the Sox!) I pushed to get him in July 2000, I don't know about right now though.

Mike Timlin -P (Philadelphia) Another veteran middle man / set up guy who can also close. Has playoff experience and a good slider for an out pitch.

Brian Boehringer -P (Pittsburgh) Former Sox farm hand who found success later in his career. Pitched well with some bad teams (San Diego, Pittsburgh) as well as good ones (Yankees) Still another experienced middle man.

Andy Benes -P (St.Louis) Will the real Andy Benes please sign in. Was it the guy who was thinking about retiring last June or the guy who came back from a minor league assignment, focused, finally injury free and pitched better then practically anybody in the National League from July on? Would he be to big a risk, pitching in a new league?

Those are my thoughts...now let the bashing begin!!!

Lip

Here's my take:

Flaherty: Wouldn't be a bad pick up, assuming they could sign him to a one year deal. Then they could start the year with a platoon of Flaherty and MJ and give Olivo a year at AAA (which I think he needs).

Anderson, Parris, Moehler, Benes: These are guys who, at best, are back of the rotation starters, or who may turn out to not be fully recovered or otherwise no longer effective. I would not be in favor of signing someone of this ilk if that meant taking away starts from Garland, Wright, Biddle or Rauch, just because I think all four of those guys have the potential to be better going forward than any of these four FAs.

Haynes: I like him, but I've heard that the Reds are hot to trot to re-sign him and that he wants to stay there. Also, his market value could be inflated because I think he pitched a little over his head last year.

Middle Relievers: I'd take any of the middle relievers you mention in a heart beat. I'd especially like to see Jackson or Timlin here, although I still like Plesac, too.

Reynolds: I don't think Reynolds would be a bad pickup, but he is not a no. 2 starter anymore. If the Sox can deal one or two of Garland, Wright, Rauch or Biddle for a true no. 2 (e.g., Colon), then I'd love to see them make a run at Reynolds to fill the no. 3 or 4 spot in the rotation.

Trachsel: If the Sox can't swing a reasonable deal for someone like Colon, then I'd like to see them make a run at Trachsel, Omar Daal, Byrd or Moyer, depending on the market value for each. If they can't trade for a top tier starter, you know they won't/can't lure someone like Clemens, Maddux or Glavine. Thus, if they can't work a deal, these guys, IMHO, are the the top of the rest of the FA class of starters, and any one of them would improve the Sox' staff.

maurice
11-12-2002, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I contend the Sox need middle relief help almost as badly as starting help.

I'd be shocked if the Sox signed a decent (that is, $1 million plus) FA reliever. The Bob Howry trade signaled that they're going to go with younger (read: cheaper) pitchers in the pen. If they add anyone to the current pen, it will be Almonte, Valentine, and/or Munoz.

Besides, Dan Plesac is 40 years old.

hold2dibber
11-12-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I'd be shocked if the Sox signed a decent (that is, $1 million plus) FA reliever. The Bob Howry trade signaled that they're going to go with younger (read: cheaper) pitchers in the pen. If they add anyone to the current pen, it will be Almonte, Valentine, and/or Munoz.

Besides, Dan Plesac is 40 years old.

Good point; I bet you're right.

RichH55
11-12-2002, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I'd be shocked if the Sox signed a decent (that is, $1 million plus) FA reliever. The Bob Howry trade signaled that they're going to go with younger (read: cheaper) pitchers in the pen. If they add anyone to the current pen, it will be Almonte, Valentine, and/or Munoz.

Besides, Dan Plesac is 40 years old.


He's also lefty:) Lefty whose arm haven't fallen off are allowed to pitch til they die.....But I think pitching in Chicago(where he wants to be and his home IIRC) would help him. I remember when Denis Savard came back to the Blackhawks at the end of his career and everyone thought he had nothing left, something about being where he wanted to be seemed to add a year to his career, just a hunch but I wouldnt be surprised to get a solid year out of pleasac if he came here.....I mean its not like you are signing the guy to a 5 year deal anyway

MarkEdward
11-12-2002, 05:01 PM
Except for Brian Anderson, all those names scare me. They literally do. Scuffy Moehler? John Flaherty? Jimmy Haynes? Brian Boehringer? Ugh. Please, Kenny, save that money and get some cheap, minor league free agent talent.

Paulwny
11-12-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Except for Brian Anderson, all those names scare me. They literally do. Scuffy Moehler? John Flaherty? Jimmy Haynes? Brian Boehringer? Ugh. Please, Kenny, save that money and get some cheap, minor league free agent talent.

The list shows what the actual quality is of players in the minors. Most of these guys will be offered a contract.

armoursquare
11-12-2002, 11:07 PM
It's those has-been/never-was guys like Steve Parris -- as well as a lot of other names on that list -- that seem to get our front office into motion. Someone in the front office dreams up a scenario where a poor pitcher like that goes into "Comeback Player Of The Year" mode and wins 14 games with a 3.90 ERA. Then they sign the guy and he either: (A) Throws 72 innings before his arm falls apart (B) Compiles a 6-11 record with a 5.07 ERA (C) Becomes an expensive and disgruntled long reliever when he gets shelled too many times as a starter.

I would take my chances with a young guy 100% of the time over Parris or someone like Brian Moehler. Shudder.

Lip Man 1
11-12-2002, 11:54 PM
Just wondering....

Armour you say you'll take the young guys everytime.

Even if they lose like 10 to 15 games for a few years before they finally figure out where home plate is? (Like the Sox "can't miss kids" since the White Flag Trade!)

Then when they do figure out what's going on, they leave as a free agent because Sox management won't give pitchers long term deals.

Lip

armoursquare
11-13-2002, 07:10 AM
See, that's the catch in all of this: A "worn-out" vet or a struggling young pitcher? I guess I maintain hope that the kid will gradually improve while the vet has seen his best days come and go. This isn't always the case, of course. Vets do rejuevnate and kids do struggle (as many of ours have). I don't hold free agent position players to these same standards and am generally much more comfortable when the Sox target a journeyman.

For the Sox, a smart trade for a starter might do the trick. If it were not for Kenny Williams, I would be excited about that Colon interest mention, but I have zero faith in that man. I really do not think that the Sox will trade for Colon, and think that they will give away the store if they do, but it's about time KW showed us he can do something besides carry around his 500-pound ego.

From your list, I would sign Brian Anderson. Yours is a pretty through list of "below grade" free agents. We all get caught up in the big FA names, but forget that these guys are also out there.