PDA

View Full Version : Big Frank & White Sox Fans


ChiSoxBobette
10-22-2002, 09:35 AM
Now everyone wants Frank back, where were all of you earlier this year(probably at games booing the guy)yeah sometimes he is a baby and yeah if you read the Chicago papers they seem to always turn Frank into some kind of monster cry baby - HE SEEMS TO BE CHICAGO BASEBALLS WHIPPING BOY, but at the end of this season he hit pretty darn good power wise homeruns & R.B.I's and for a D.H I thought his numbers were pretty good. But the same people who all year on this site screamed for Franks head are all for the White Sox keeping him. I've come to the conclusion that the White Sox fans who are always on this site just need something to hate about our White Sox - The Owner, The G.M., The Manager, Frank Thomas, even Paul Konerko when everyone was screaming for a leader on this team he stepped up when Frank was going through some rough times and yes being a bit of a baby, Pauly came out and said what everyone was saying. Then the same people who were crying about Frank not being a team player and the Sox should get rid of him thay came down on Pauly for speaking his mind. I think our team will better next year we have some good young players and theres no way problems are'nt going to start showing up with that Twins team just like we had. I say we keep Frank Thomas and cheer for the guy every once in a while. He's still one of my favorite Sox players, but I'm sure there will be somneone writing on this site that hates something about the White Sox of 2003.
Go Frank
Go White Sox
:) :)

Dadawg_77
10-22-2002, 10:22 AM
There are a couple of people who have supported Frank through thick and thin, and other who want him out even if he puts up MVP numbers.

RKMeibalane
10-22-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
There are a couple of people who have supported Frank through thick and thin, and other who want him out even if he puts up MVP numbers.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone knows who the Frank supporters have been, and everyone also knows who the Frank haters are. Fortunately, the Frank haters have not been around lately. One of them hasn't been to this board in several weeks. Hmmm...

WinningUgly!
10-22-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
I've come to the conclusion that the White Sox fans who are always on this site just need something to hate about our White Sox - The Owner, The G.M., The Manager, Frank Thomas, even Paul Konerko

Good thing you're above this. I'd hate to see you single out a certain un-named player & pop in only after that player struggled. I'm glad you're better than that!

:)

hold2dibber
10-22-2002, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Good thing you're above this. I'd hate to see you single out a certain un-named player & pop in only after that player struggled. I'm glad you're better than that!

:)

*****!

Lip Man 1
10-22-2002, 12:31 PM
ChiBob:

When your team hasn't even MADE a World Series in 43 years (when expansion teams are now doing it regularly!) and hasn't WON a series in over 80, you have every right to bitch about anything and everything you want.


You want to stop the bitching.....WIN SOME DAMN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Lip

bc2k
10-22-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Good thing you're above this. I'd hate to see you single out a certain un-named player & pop in only after that player struggled. I'm glad you're better than that!

:)

Quite original WU, I like it.

ChiSoxBobette
10-22-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Good thing you're above this. I'd hate to see you single out a certain un-named player & pop in only after that player struggled. I'm glad you're better than that!

:) When Jonny boy garland has a career like Frank Thomas maybe then I'll get off his sorry a$$ until then he's just another flub castoff!Besides if jonny boys all that good why are all of you so-called White Sox fans always screaming for pitching, face it jonny boy can't even carry Buerhles jock, you have to also have brains to pitch and jonny boy well its a good thing he's got a pretty good arm because there's nothing going on in that head of his.
Go Big Frank, You're Still The Man Baby!
:)

Jerry_Manuel
10-22-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
There are a couple of people who have supported Frank through thick and thin, and other who want him out even if he puts up MVP numbers.

I'd like to see him leave, but if he's here I'm not going to get upset.

bc2k
10-22-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
When Jonny boy garland has a career like Frank Thomas maybe then I'll get off his sorry a$$ until then he's just another flub castoff!Besides if jonny boys all that good why are all of you so-called White Sox fans always screaming for pitching, face it jonny boy can't even carry Buerhles jock, you have to also have brains to pitch and jonny boy well its a good thing he's got a pretty good arm because there's nothing going on in that head of his.
Go Big Frank, You're Still The Man Baby!
:)

Garland and Thomas are in the same category. Garland pitches once every five days and Thomas comes out of the locker room about as often.

Garland's era matches Frank's weight.

Garland uses a slide step, Frank doesn't slide at all.

Jon doesn't last past the 6th and Thomas doesn't hit after the 6th.

Thomas is prone to crying, Garland also cried--at birth.

Garland throws many double play balls, Thomas grounds into them.

I guess the only difference between the two is JGar has no problem protecting his teammates, while Thomas likes to keep his 458 pounds on the bench during brawls. Protect our closer? No, Thomas will let him get hit and require stitches to close the gash. Return the favor to Parque who was willing to protect you? No, Frankie will just sit there while Parque is surrounded by kicking Tigers. Some Frank supporters might say in his defense, "At least he was watching his teammates brawl from the bench and not on the locker room monitor!" Sitting on the bench while your teammates get pummeled is not a trait of an MVP. Most Valuable Player? I'm sure his teammates visiting the hospital would think otherwise.

RKMeibalane
10-22-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Garland and Thomas are in the same category. Garland pitches once every five days and Thomas comes out of the locker room about as often.

Garland's era matches Frank's weight.

Garland uses a slide step, Frank doesn't slide at all.

Jon doesn't last past the 6th and Thomas doesn't hit after the 6th.

Thomas is prone to crying, Garland also cried--at birth.

Garland throws many double play balls, Thomas grounds into them.

I guess the only difference between the two is JGar has no problem protecting his teammates, while Thomas likes to keep his 458 pounds on the bench during brawls. Protect our closer? No, Thomas will let him get hit and require stitches to close the gash. Return the favor to Parque who was willing to protect you? No, Frankie will just sit there while Parque is surrounded by kicking Tigers. Some Frank supporters might say in his defense, "At least he was watching his teammates brawl from the bench and not on the locker room monitor!" Sitting on the bench while your teammates get pummeled is not a trait of an MVP. Most Valuable Player? I'm sure his teammates visiting the hospital would think otherwise.

Seriously, if you are going to bash Frank Thomas, please do so while remaining connected to reality. Frank does not weigh 458 pounds. He weights roughly 265-270 lbs. Furthermore, when did Thomas remain on the bench during a brawl? I have no memory of this event.

As far as the sliding is concerned, I can't really argue there. However, some of Frank's base-running problems this past season were the result of Wavin' Wally's incompetence.

guillen4life13
10-22-2002, 06:00 PM
my honest opinion.

i've always been a frank supporter... as has voodoo (he's the first person that comes to my mind).

the first person that comes to my mind that had a BLIND, unreasonable hatred for Thomas was none other than the nuker (not trying to put all the blame, or if you want to call it credit on your shoulders).

frank should be kept for his playing ability, not his fighting ability! I have respect for someone who does not join a brawl. of course, i'm against violence in almost all its forms, but that's another thing altogether, and i believe most of you would not agree with those views.

you can quote me on this:

frank is back. his september numbers showed it. the man will come in next year and after one month, he will be as feared as he was in 2000.

hold2dibber
10-22-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Garland and Thomas are in the same category. Garland pitches once every five days and Thomas comes out of the locker room about as often.

Garland's era matches Frank's weight.

Garland uses a slide step, Frank doesn't slide at all.

Jon doesn't last past the 6th and Thomas doesn't hit after the 6th.

Thomas is prone to crying, Garland also cried--at birth.

Garland throws many double play balls, Thomas grounds into them.

I guess the only difference between the two is JGar has no problem protecting his teammates, while Thomas likes to keep his 458 pounds on the bench during brawls. Protect our closer? No, Thomas will let him get hit and require stitches to close the gash. Return the favor to Parque who was willing to protect you? No, Frankie will just sit there while Parque is surrounded by kicking Tigers. Some Frank supporters might say in his defense, "At least he was watching his teammates brawl from the bench and not on the locker room monitor!" Sitting on the bench while your teammates get pummeled is not a trait of an MVP. Most Valuable Player? I'm sure his teammates visiting the hospital would think otherwise.

I'm a Big Frank supporter and although the above is nothing but cheap and unfair shots, I must admit its pretty funny. :smile:

WhiteSox = Life
10-22-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Garland and Thomas are in the same category. Garland pitches once every five days and Thomas comes out of the locker room about as often.

Garland's era matches Frank's weight.

Garland uses a slide step, Frank doesn't slide at all.

Jon doesn't last past the 6th and Thomas doesn't hit after the 6th.

Thomas is prone to crying, Garland also cried--at birth.

Garland throws many double play balls, Thomas grounds into them.

I guess the only difference between the two is JGar has no problem protecting his teammates, while Thomas likes to keep his 458 pounds on the bench during brawls. Protect our closer? No, Thomas will let him get hit and require stitches to close the gash. Return the favor to Parque who was willing to protect you? No, Frankie will just sit there while Parque is surrounded by kicking Tigers. Some Frank supporters might say in his defense, "At least he was watching his teammates brawl from the bench and not on the locker room monitor!" Sitting on the bench while your teammates get pummeled is not a trait of an MVP. Most Valuable Player? I'm sure his teammates visiting the hospital would think otherwise.

http://www.iu.hio.no/~ulfu/fagseminar/images/frinky.gif
"My 'Poor-Sarcasm Machine' is going through the roof!"

RKMeibalane
10-22-2002, 06:38 PM
NUKE_CLEVELAND definitely had it in for Frank. His name pops into my head whenever I think of those who dislike the Big Hurt. Every post NUKE made had the word Skirt included in it. He even went so far as to refer to Thomas as one of the "sons of Reinsdorf," grouping him with Manuel, Williams, Nardi, and Clayton as the people who were ruining the Sox organization.

Funny how NUKE hasn't been around since Thomas started hitting well again. Hmmm...

guillen4life13
10-22-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
NUKE_CLEVELAND definitely had it in for Frank. His name pops into my head whenever I think of those who dislike the Big Hurt. Every post NUKE made had the word Skirt included in it. He even went so far as to refer to Thomas as one of the "sons of Reinsdorf," grouping him with Manuel, Williams, Nardi, and Clayton as the people who were ruining the Sox organization.

Funny how NUKE hasn't been around since Thomas started hitting well again. Hmmm...

hey you're right... he hasn't been around.

PHG, did you ban him or something, or is he not on the boards of his own free will?

jortafan
10-22-2002, 07:43 PM
What bothers me a lot about this issue is the perception it must be creating about the White Sox organization among baseball people, particularly talented ballplayers that we might dream about coming to the South Side to play for the Sox. I seem to recall a Daily Southtown story quoting Ray Durham as saying the Sox were gaining a negative reputation for treating its ballplayers like children. Will the Thomas affair create the perception of an organization that looks for ways to renege on its contractural requirements? The bottom line is that I wonder if Kenny Williams and crew will wind up with a worse reputation than Jerry Krause has. At least the Bulls got a historic run before being decimated. All we got from Kenny were false promises and teams that were thankful to finish .500.

guillen4life13
10-22-2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
What bothers me a lot about this issue is the perception it must be creating about the White Sox organization among baseball people, particularly talented ballplayers that we might dream about coming to the South Side to play for the Sox. I seem to recall a Daily Southtown story quoting Ray Durham as saying the Sox were gaining a negative reputation for treating its ballplayers like children. Will the Thomas affair create the perception of an organization that looks for ways to renege on its contractural requirements? The bottom line is that I wonder if Kenny Williams and crew will wind up with a worse reputation than Jerry Krause has. At least the Bulls got a historic run before being decimated. All we got from Kenny were false promises and teams that were thankful to finish .500.

ENCORE!!! WELL SAID!

seriously... at soxfest we need to organize a protest of some sort getting these bafoons(sp?) outta here!

Jerry_Manuel
10-22-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
hey you're right... he hasn't been around.

PHG, did you ban him or something, or is he not on the boards of his own free will?

He was given the boot.

I suppose if he said sorry or something he might be allowed back under certain terms.

Jerry_Manuel
10-22-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
I seem to recall a Daily Southtown story quoting Ray Durham as saying the Sox were gaining a negative reputation for treating its ballplayers like children. Will the Thomas affair create the perception of an organization that looks for ways to renege on its contractural requirements?

That stuff is true.

Williams wants to run the team like its' a minor league team. He wants to know what's happening at all times.

mike squires
10-22-2002, 10:14 PM
i'm sure this is old news, but while browsing through the 2002 whitesox media guide...big frank is no where to be found in the team pic. where was he?

hold2dibber
10-23-2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by jortafan
What bothers me a lot about this issue is the perception it must be creating about the White Sox organization among baseball people, particularly talented ballplayers that we might dream about coming to the South Side to play for the Sox. I seem to recall a Daily Southtown story quoting Ray Durham as saying the Sox were gaining a negative reputation for treating its ballplayers like children. Will the Thomas affair create the perception of an organization that looks for ways to renege on its contractural requirements? The bottom line is that I wonder if Kenny Williams and crew will wind up with a worse reputation than Jerry Krause has. At least the Bulls got a historic run before being decimated. All we got from Kenny were false promises and teams that were thankful to finish .500.

If that is the perception, it makes no sense -- the Sox didn't renege on their contractual obligations; instead they're doing just the opposite, they're exercising an express contractual right. If anyone looks bad in this whole mess, I would think it is Frank's late agent and/or Frank himself for signing the deal in the first place. I actually think the Sox come out looking pretty good by not sticking it to Frank like they could. In effect, they're asking him to defer a little extra money. which lots of teams do (e.g., Diamondbacks).

voodoochile
10-23-2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If that is the perception, it makes no sense -- the Sox didn't renege on their contractual obligations; instead they're doing just the opposite, they're exercising an express contractual right. If anyone looks bad in this whole mess, I would think it is Frank's late agent and/or Frank himself for signing the deal in the first place. I actually think the Sox come out looking pretty good by not sticking it to Frank like they could. In effect, they're asking him to defer a little extra money. which lots of teams do (e.g., Diamondbacks).

How often does a team ask the greatest player in the history of the team and a future HOF inductee to defer money? How often does that same team decide to unilaterally impose the new contract terms without the players approval? How many of those teams are willing to risk losing that player to make those terms a reality?

Yes, I know that Frank signed the contract (against the advice of his agent at the time), but JR and KW are the ones who have decided to save a buck or two and risk chasing Frank out of town one year after major arm surgery and alienating the dwindling fanbase even more.

Does anyone really think the money they save is going to be used to improve the team? My guess is they looked at the extra $1M they would have to pay on low end contracts due to the new CBA and started to figure out how they could make it back up without having to dip into the extra money they will be making with raised ticket prices.

I think Frank will be back and the beauty of it is that JR and KW will manage to do what Frank himself couldn't do by himself in a million years - make Frank seem sympathetic. Still, this whole situation, stinks to high heaven...

hold2dibber
10-23-2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How often does a team ask the greatest player in the history of the team and a future HOF inductee to defer money? How often does that same team decide to unilaterally impose the new contract terms without the players approval? How many of those teams are willing to risk losing that player to make those terms a reality?

Yes, I know that Frank signed the contract (against the advice of his agent at the time), but JR and KW are the ones who have decided to save a buck or two and risk chasing Frank out of town one year after major arm surgery and alienating the dwindling fanbase even more.

Does anyone really think the money they save is going to be used to improve the team? My guess is they looked at the extra $1M they would have to pay on low end contracts due to the new CBA and started to figure out how they could make it back up without having to dip into the extra money they will be making with raised ticket prices.

I think Frank will be back and the beauty of it is that JR and KW will manage to do what Frank himself couldn't do by himself in a million years - make Frank seem sympathetic. Still, this whole situation, stinks to high heaven...

If in fact the Sox are only asking him to defer about $1 million more than he'd be deferring anyway, the whole thing is pretty ridiculous. But I still don't think the way the Sox are handling it will have a negative impact upon free agents or others in terms of whether they'd want to play here. In fact, Frank's loyalty to the organization, IMHO, speaks well and is just as likely to influence others' perception of the organization. (Of course, if what Durham said is true, and if the word gets out about KW's "Big Brothers" tactics, that will have a much greater influence than anything arising from the Big Frank situation).

Jerry_Manuel
10-23-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
(Of course, if what Durham said is true, and if the word gets out about KW's "Big Brothers" tactics, that will have a much greater influence than anything arising from the Big Frank situation).

Why would Durham lie about that?

It's happening. And Darryl Boston is coming in next!

Darryl Boston and Kenny Williams star in "I know what you did yesterday...and the day before that....and the day before that."

RKMeibalane
10-23-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Why would Durham lie about that?

It's happening. And Darryl Boston is coming in next!

Darryl Boston and Kenny Williams star in "I know what you did yesterday...and the day before that....and the day before that."

I agree. Boston will be with the Sox at some point. In all likelyhood, the next person to fall is either Ward. The Sox have no reason to fire Nossek, and Don Cooper hasn't been around long enough to do anything to irritate KW and his minions.

As for Manuel, well, he should be around for at least another year, barring any unforseen problems. He has done what Williams wanted him to do (i.e. playing Clayton), so KW has no reason to fire him at this point.

Jerry_Manuel
10-23-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I agree. Boston will be with the Sox at some point. In all likelyhood, the next person to fall is either Ward. The Sox have no reason to fire Nossek, and Don Cooper hasn't been around long enough to do anything to irritate KW and his minions.

As for Manuel, well, he should be around for at least another year, barring any unforseen problems. He has done what Williams wanted him to do (i.e. playing Clayton), so KW has no reason to fire him at this point.

Once Manuel is gone, the pressure will be on Williams because that manager is his guy, so if he blows the blame goes to Williams.

MarkEdward
10-23-2002, 11:12 PM
Daryl Boston's career SB percentage: 66%. I don't what this has to do with anything, but I figure a first or third base coach should have some baserunning smarts.

RichH55
10-24-2002, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Daryl Boston's career SB percentage: 66%. I don't what this has to do with anything, but I figure a first or third base coach should have some baserunning smarts.


Isnt 66% essentially the break even point from where stealing is productive or counter productive to a team? 66% isnt exactly blowing the roof off the place

RichH55
10-24-2002, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Daryl Boston's career SB percentage: 66%. I don't what this has to do with anything, but I figure a first or third base coach should have some baserunning smarts.


Now if his OBP was 66% then sign that bad boy up :D: :gulp: :gulp:

hold2dibber
10-24-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Why would Durham lie about that?

It's happening. And Darryl Boston is coming in next!

Darryl Boston and Kenny Williams star in "I know what you did yesterday...and the day before that....and the day before that."

I don't think Durham would "lie", however, I try to take everything I hear in the press with a grain of salt because I personally have witnessed many instances in which the press mis-quoted, misconstrued, or failed to give proper context to comments when reporting them in the paper. Also, Ray's statements may be the opinion of just one guy or of a few guys. I just don't think we can take one guy's opinion as the be all and end all on the subject. Ray is not all knowing and he doesn't speak for everyone. Not to say that his comments should be ignored, just that they should not necessarily be taken as gospel, either.

RKMeibalane
10-24-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't think Durham would "lie", however, I try to take everything I hear in the press with a grain of salt because I personally have witnessed many instances in which the press mis-quoted, misconstrued, or failed to give proper context to comments when reporting them in the paper. Also, Ray's statements may be the opinion of just one guy or of a few guys. I just don't think we can take one guy's opinion as the be all and end all on the subject. Ray is not all knowing and he doesn't speak for everyone. Not to say that his comments should be ignored, just that they should not necessarily be taken as gospel, either.

Agreed. However, Frank Thomas alluded to some of the things Durham mentioned, saying that "things have changed since 2000." That was, of course, when Williams took over as GM. I generally don't put too much stock in one man's comments, but when others start making similar remarks, a pattern beings to take shape.

It's beginning to look as though nothing will change until Williams is gone. He continues to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, and he has also done nothing to develop a level of trust between himself and his players. His biggest contribution to the team last season was when he knocked over the buffet table and screamed at the team.

hold2dibber
10-24-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Agreed. However, Frank Thomas alluded to some of the things Durham mentioned, saying that "things have changed since 2000." That was, of course, when Williams took over as GM. I generally don't put too much stock in one man's comments, but when others start making similar remarks, a pattern beings to take shape.

It's beginning to look as though nothing will change until Williams is gone. He continues to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, and he has also done nothing to develop a level of trust between himself and his players. His biggest contribution to the team last season was when he knocked over the buffet table and screamed at the team.

Absolutely. KW is clearly in over his head. I don't doubt that he was good in his prior role in player development and I also think there is some possibility that he might someday make a good GM. But he's screwing this team up now, and it is especially frustrating because I think a shrewd GM could turn the core talent of this team into a seriously good team relatively easily.