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View Full Version : Rant Time Again


RKMeibalane
10-15-2002, 10:57 AM
The word out of Chicago this week is that the White Sox will invoke the Diminished Skills Clause on Frank Thomas. By doing so, the Sox risk losing their most marketable player to free-agency, should Thomas decide to look for a better deal elsewhere. So this is the first-class organization Sox fans were promised back in 1981. Now, twenty one years later, it's come down to this: the Sox can barely compete in baseball's weakest division, and the only thing that's changed is the number of disgruntled fans.

Jerry Reinsdorf, get the HELL OUT!

Of course, it is likely that Thomas will remain in the Windy City. He has said as much, believing that it's important for him to finish his career with one team. However, even if Thomas is wearing a Sox uniform next season, no one is certain as to whether the quality of the team itself will have improved. Ken Williams knows nothing about running an organization. His most noteworthy accomplishment since taking over as the general manager stems from him knocking over the Sox buffet table and shouting obscenities at players.

To make matters worse, one wonders if the Sox young players will compete with the same fire and enthusiasm they showed over the final six weeks of the regular season, given that they will now be subjected to the daily lineup juggling of Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel. The baseball season is comprised of 162 games. Does this mean we will see 162 lineups?

bc2k
10-15-2002, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The baseball season is comprised of 162 games. Does this mean we will see 162 lineups?

That gives me an idea. For next season's Preseason Predictions, there should be a category to guess how many different lineups Manuel will use.

Lip Man 1
10-15-2002, 11:56 AM
RK:

Just wondering...

Why are you so surprised that the Sox invoked that clause? Reinsdorf didn't put it in the contract just to use up ink.

Have you ever known our so called "astute, sharp businessman" owner to ever let his heart get in the way of making money???

Remember his whole history has shown the only line that counts with him isn't wins and losses but profit margin.

Lip

RKMeibalane
10-15-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
RK:

Just wondering...

Why are you so surprised that the Sox invoked that clause? Reinsdorf didn't put it in the contract just to use up ink.


I'm not surprised he invoked the clause. Rather, I'm dissapointed, because it appears as though Reinsdorf will never stop doing things to alienate the Sox fan base.

hold2dibber
10-15-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I'm not surprised he invoked the clause. Rather, I'm dissapointed, because it appears as though Reinsdorf will never stop doing things to alienate the Sox fan base.

But if he invokes the clause, negotiates a deal with Frank that keeps him in Chicago, and uses the money saved to improve the team, that would be a good thing, right? Invoking the clause, standing alone, should not alienate the fan base. If they drive him out of town and/or don't otherwise improve the team, that should (and will) further alienate the fans.

MarkEdward
10-15-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
But if he invokes the clause, negotiates a deal with Frank that keeps him in Chicago, and uses the money saved to improve the team, that would be a good thing, right? Invoking the clause, standing alone, should not alienate the fan base. If they drive him out of town and/or don't otherwise improve the team, that should (and will) further alienate the fans.

Even if they use the money saved from invoking the DSC (by signing Moyer or Glavine), there will still be a large gap at DH. There's nobody in the Sox organization with the ability to take Frank's place (Leifer is a pinch-hit masher at best; Borchard's not ready and shouldn't waste his skills at DH).

ChiSoxBobette
10-15-2002, 01:00 PM
Man all year all I heard on White Sox Fan sites , at White Sox park, in the newspapers, on T.V. is dump Frank Thomas, get rid of Frank Thomas , invoke the dimished skills clause of his contract. Frank stinks, He 's done, trade him, he's a cancer. Will we as Sox Fans never be satisfied. All year I heard boos when Frank struck out or flyed out or did'nt slide or did'nt show up for a game. Come on you either want the guy on this team because he's one of the best players the Sox have ever had or we get rid of him. My opinion we keep him because everyone I've talked to says the injury Frank had takes at least a year to 2 years to come back from it so lets just see what happens with Frank this spring.
Go White Sox
Go Frank
:)

BarryFoote
10-15-2002, 01:32 PM
While Frank's production has slipped, I hope the Chisox keep him for the long haul. Thre has been no better player in White Sox uniform in my lifetime.

hold2dibber
10-15-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Even if they use the money saved from invoking the DSC (by signing Moyer or Glavine), there will still be a large gap at DH. There's nobody in the Sox organization with the ability to take Frank's place (Leifer is a pinch-hit masher at best; Borchard's not ready and shouldn't waste his skills at DH).

Read my post more closely - I said "if they invoke the clause and re-negotiate his deal to keep Frank in Chicago" (which is what the Trib is reporting). If they invoke and Frank goes elsewhere, the Sox have a HUGE hole in their line-up. But based on the Trib's report and Frank's end-of-season comments about staying here to add to his legacy (and to collect the entire contract amount, even if deferred) suggests to me that he's not going anywhere (but maybe that's just wishful thinking).

hold2dibber
10-15-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Man all year all I heard on White Sox Fan sites , at White Sox park, in the newspapers, on T.V. is dump Frank Thomas, get rid of Frank Thomas , invoke the dimished skills clause of his contract. Frank stinks, He 's done, trade him, he's a cancer. Will we as Sox Fans never be satisfied. All year I heard boos when Frank struck out or flyed out or did'nt slide or did'nt show up for a game. Come on you either want the guy on this team because he's one of the best players the Sox have ever had or we get rid of him. My opinion we keep him because everyone I've talked to says the injury Frank had takes at least a year to 2 years to come back from it so lets just see what happens with Frank this spring.
Go White Sox
Go Frank
:)

I think a lot of people changed their minds based upon Frank's resurgance over the last 5 or 6 weeks of the season, when he started hitting like the Frank of old. That made a lot of people think that there still might be some life in that bat.

Nellie_Fox
10-15-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I think a lot of people changed their minds based upon Frank's resurgance over the last 5 or 6 weeks of the season, when he started hitting like the Frank of old. That made a lot of people think that there still might be some life in that bat. And there have been some people on this board who have been consistent all year in defending Frank and saying that he needed more time to get back to 100%. We know who we are.

Lip Man 1
10-15-2002, 05:31 PM
The question was asked, "if Frank does leave, who DH's??"

As I suggested last week after quoting the story in the New York Post, how about ROBIN VENTURA?????

Lip

nut_stock
10-15-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked, "if Frank does leave, who DH's??"

As I suggested last week after quoting the story in the New York Post, how about ROBIN VENTURA?????

Lip

Robin will not want to DH, and the Sox are not going to move Crede for Robin.

hold2dibber
10-15-2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked, "if Frank does leave, who DH's??"

As I suggested last week after quoting the story in the New York Post, how about ROBIN VENTURA?????

Lip

I agree with Nut Stock that Ventura is unlikely to be interested in DHing on a full time basis. He also has, as I understand it, indicated an interest to play for a team in the West. With that said, I would love to have him back in a Sox uniform. Although he hit only .225 in the second half this year, he still would be preferable to any other option the Sox would have and it would make me warm and fuzzy to have Robin back. More likely IMHO, if Frank leaves (which seems unlikely to me at this point), is for the Sox to move CLee to DH and play Liefer in left until Borchard is ready. Yikes.

StepsInSC
10-15-2002, 07:30 PM
The baseball season is comprised of 162 games. Does this mean we will see 162 lineups?

Heck have a contest called "Fans choose the starting lineup" and let 162 fans choose the lineup for each game. I guarentee we'd have more consistancy, a better record, and probably a new manager at the end of next year.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-15-2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I think a lot of people changed their minds based upon Frank's resurgance over the last 5 or 6 weeks of the season, when he started hitting like the Frank of old. That made a lot of people think that there still might be some life in that bat.

Yes, and at least two of them were downright belligerent about their use of the "Big Skirt" term. Fortunately for them they have left, saving themselves from further embarrassment.

RKMeibalane
10-15-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Yes, and at least two of them were downright belligerent about their use of the "Big Skirt" term. Fortunately for them they have left, saving themselves from further embarrassment.

I wonder where those two are. I haven't seen one of them on this board in weeks. Back in July, it was suggested that one the two individuals in questions was a closet Cubs fan. I wonder if that is, in fact, the case.

Dan H
10-15-2002, 10:17 PM
One thing that Thomas supporters are not saying is that he is a one dimensional player. He has been in the big leagues since 1990 and still can't play a credible first base. His base running isn't any good. Which means if he isn't hitting, he isn't contributing.

Thomas still may had some pop left in that bat, and maybe he can put together some good offensive numbers. I just would like to see him grow up. There's more to being a ballplayer than putting up stats. Frank's problems are of his own making. Besides, the Sox were saying at the beginning of 2002 that he had the greatest of attitudes and was ready to play. No one even gave a hint that he needed nearly another whole season to rebound from an injury. I didn't expect him to step right in and hit homers. I just didn't think he needed all the way to September to re-discover his swing.

Next year he won't have the excuses of the layoff and injury to explain his average dropping into the .220's. Let's see just how good he really is.

How far as Reinsdorf alienating fans: Does anyone expect him to change? Does anyone really think he cares about the fans? Over 20 years without a World Series doesn't bother him any.

RKMeibalane
10-15-2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
How far as Reinsdorf alienating fans: Does anyone expect him to change? Does anyone really think he cares about the fans? Over 20 years without a World Series doesn't bother him any.

I don't expect him to change. That's why I said the following when I started this thread:

Jerry Reinsdorf, get the HELL OUT!

cornball
10-15-2002, 10:37 PM
I agree that Reinsdorf needs to go....as we all do. I also think we can argue that Frank maybe the best hitter in Sox history. A history that usually does not show loyalty. If all this is true, why not let him play out his career here? We would all love that.

The problem is when your owner has a 40-50MM budget with Frank making 10MM and PK and Mags taking up just a huge amount of what they have supposedly budgeted for...the bottom line is we cant win..3 players to make X % of the teams payroll ...doesnt make sense...at this time anyway

Lip Man 1
10-16-2002, 12:37 AM
Which is EXACTLY what Phil Rogers was wondering about when he had his Paul Konerko column in June (and got dumped on by a lot of Sox fans!)

If the payroll's going to be 45 million, how can Thomas, Ordonez and Konerko take up 40 - 50 per cent of it?

Who are the other 21 players going to be? Retreds? More "can't
miss kids?", injured has been's who couldn't find a job with anybody else???

Is THAT supposed to be a 'contender?"

The only solution is to get rid of some of the high salaried guys or RAISE THE DAMN PAYROLL to an acceptable level that allows a team to have a chance to win. (Say 70 - 75 million)

Lip

maurice
10-16-2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
His base running isn't any good.

:?:

Granted, he's quite large and therefore not too fast, but he was 3-for-3 in SBs in 2002. Manos (one of our best baserunners) was only 3-for-6.

Frank got thrown out at home too much, but I think everyone (including Sox management) acknowledges that's Waving Wally's fault.

I agree that Frank acts immature and his defense stinks, but if he can post numbers anywhere near his career averages, $10 mil per year is a relative bargain.