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Lip Man 1
10-10-2002, 07:43 PM
There's an interesting story in Wednesday's New York Post explaining that "sources" have told them the Yankees top off season priorities will NOT be pitching! (That's shocking!)

The story says the top off season move will be to sign Chicago South Side native Cliff Floyd to play either left or right field.

The second move will be to acquire Florida 3rd baseman Mike Lowell in a trade.

Robin Ventura played that spot last year hitting over 25 home runs, driving in over 90 RBI's and making the All Star team.

Hmmmmm...

Would the Sox be interested in getting Ventura back as a DH in the event Frank Thomas leaves? Ventura could also spell Joe Crede against tough right handed pitchers at 3rd base.

Ventura being a left handed power threat, is EXACTLY what the Sox need to wrap around right handers Orodnez and Konerko . The signing also wouldn't hurt from a PR standpoint. Unlike Harold Baines , Ventura hasn't lost it (yet...)

Naturally some serious obstacles would be in the way:

A.) Would the Sox make Ventura a good contract offer?

B.) After the White Flag Trade and the subsequent insulting "low ball last minute" offer by former GM Ron Schueler , would Ventura even consider the Sox?

C.) Would Sox management hold against Robin his honest comments after the White Flag Deal ("I didn't know the season ended in July...")

Just wondering...

Lip

Kilroy
10-10-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hmmmmm...

Would the Sox be interested in getting Ventura back as a DH in the event Frank Thomas leaves?

There's only 2 things that could happen that would lead to Frank Thomas not being on the Sox next year:

1. Thomas suffers some sort of freak accident (washing his car a la Jeff Kent) that ends his playing days.

2. Frank Thomas dies.

Short of those two things, #35 will be DHing on the Southside next year, and not in some other uniform. So this speculation is a reach at its very best.

And while I love Robin, there's no room for him on this team. I want to see #24 play about 155 games next year.

doublem23
10-10-2002, 08:30 PM
Granted, I like Ventura (and his .360 OPB) last year, but I think that anyone who believes Robin would put up the same numbers in the Sox's lineup (much less threatening top to bottom than the Yankees) is dreaming a bit.

That, and Frank is the DH. No questions asked.

nut_stock
10-10-2002, 08:39 PM
Crede looks like a better option for the money. I don't see the Robin of old returning to the southside anyways. Give Joe a chance, spend the money on starting pitching.

Dadawg_77
10-10-2002, 08:42 PM
To bad the Sox don't go out and get the home town kid done good. Which will allow the Sox to trade C-Lee for much need good veteran pitching and one more year of riping for Joe down on the farm.

Lip Man 1
10-10-2002, 08:56 PM
Folks:

I think you missed my point...I suggested Robin IF THOMAS LEAVES.

If he doesn't the Sox would have no place for Ventura but if Frank leaves the Sox will badly need a productive DH (No, Jeff Leifer IS NOT the answer to that question)

As far as Cliff Floyd, he had a NO TRADE clause in his contract and the Sox were one of the teams he refused to go to. Why would he even consider signing with them? Obviously he doesn't like the direction under Ken Williams and Uncle Jerry's inspired leadership (LOL)

Lip

WinningUgly!
10-10-2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

I think you missed my point...I suggested Robin IF THOMAS LEAVES.

If he doesn't the Sox would have no place for Ventura but if Frank leaves the Sox will badly need a productive DH (No, Jeff Leifer IS NOT the answer to that question)

As far as Cliff Floyd, he had a NO TRADE clause in his contract and the Sox were one of the teams he refused to go to. Why would he even consider signing with them? Obviously he doesn't like the direction under Ken Williams and Uncle Jerry's inspired leadership (LOL)

Lip

If Frank were to leave (which I don't see happening), I'd be all for the signing of Ventura. I could see RV getting about 20 starts at 3B on days off/tough matchups for Crede & maybe 10-15 starts at 1B on PK days off or while PK does occasional DH duty. It would also soften the PR hit they'd take for running Frank outta town.

hold2dibber
10-11-2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
There's an interesting story in Wednesday's New York Post explaining that "sources" have told them the Yankees top off season priorities will NOT be pitching! (That's shocking!)

The story says the top off season move will be to sign Chicago South Side native Cliff Floyd to play either left or right field.

The second move will be to acquire Florida 3rd baseman Mike Lowell in a trade.

Robin Ventura played that spot last year hitting over 25 home runs, driving in over 90 RBI's and making the All Star team.

Hmmmmm...

Would the Sox be interested in getting Ventura back as a DH in the event Frank Thomas leaves? Ventura could also spell Joe Crede against tough right handed pitchers at 3rd base.

Ventura being a left handed power threat, is EXACTLY what the Sox need to wrap around right handers Orodnez and Konerko . The signing also wouldn't hurt from a PR standpoint. Unlike Harold Baines , Ventura hasn't lost it (yet...)

Naturally some serious obstacles would be in the way:

A.) Would the Sox make Ventura a good contract offer?

B.) After the White Flag Trade and the subsequent insulting "low ball last minute" offer by former GM Ron Schueler , would Ventura even consider the Sox?

C.) Would Sox management hold against Robin his honest comments after the White Flag Deal ("I didn't know the season ended in July...")

Just wondering...

Lip

I'd be surprised if Ventura would be interested in being a DH. He has always struck me as a guy who truly enjoys playing baseball and I doubt he'd be happy sitting on the bench all night but for 4 ABs. If Big Frank were to leave, Ventura would be a great option, but I simply can't imagine him being interested in being a DH. Plus, who the hell are the Yankees going to trade to get Mike Lowell, anyway? Their farm system is barren and the one guy they seem high on (could be just Yankmee PR) is a 3B (Henson). Of course, I shouldn't overestimate any team run by Jeffrey Loria -they'll probably trade Lowell for a bag of shiny trinkets and some Pokemon cards.

Jjav829
10-11-2002, 10:32 AM
I'd rather see them use the money to get a pitcher. We have plenty of guys who can be a DH. We don't have plenty of pitchers who have proven they can pitch.

maurice
10-11-2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Granted, I like Ventura (and his .360 OPB) last year, but I think that anyone who believes Robin would put up the same numbers in the Sox's lineup (much less threatening top to bottom than the Yankees) is dreaming a bit.


Let's take a closer look:

Yanks 2002 - 897 Runs / .809 OPS
Sox 2002 - 856 Run / .787 OPS

That's a difference of only .25 runs per game and .022 OPS. I expect the Sox to close that gap next season. They'll have Crede in place of Choice for a full season, and every Sox regular (except perhaps Maggs) should be able to match or exceed their 2002 offensive performance.

Robin's OBP has been at or above .360 for 10 of the last 12 years with three different teams, though his historically erratic SLG is a legitimate concern (especially at age 35 -- Barry Bonds notwithstanding). The slide my have begun around the 2002 All-Star break (.511 first-half SLG / .389 second-half SLG), though I hope I'm wrong about that.

Robin was my favorite player, and I would love to see him back with the Sox, but I agree that there's an ice cube's chance in heck of that happening. The 2003 Sox probably will be virtually indistinghishable from the September 2002 Sox.

Dadawg_77
10-11-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Let's take a closer look:

Yanks 2002 - 897 Runs / .809 OPS
Sox 2002 - 856 Run / .787 OPS

That's a difference of only .25 runs per game and .022 OPS. I expect the Sox to close that gap next season. They'll have Crede in place of Choice for a full season, and every Sox regular (except perhaps Maggs) should be able to match or exceed their 2002 offensive performance.

Robin's OBP has been at or above .360 for 10 of the last 12 years with three different teams, though his historically erratic SLG is a legitimate concern (especially at age 35 -- Barry Bonds notwithstanding). The slide my have begun around the 2002 All-Star break (.511 first-half SLG / .389 second-half SLG), though I hope I'm wrong about that.

Robin was my favorite player, and I would love to see him back with the Sox, but I agree that there's an ice cube's chance in heck of that happening. The 2003 Sox probably will be virtually indistinghishable from the September 2002 Sox.

The only Sox I would afraid of not meeting or exceeding is Konerko. 2002 may of been a career year, hopefully not but could of been his peak.
Mags should continue to improve one or two more then play at that plateau for about five to six years. Then start to slide from his peak. Then again he could slip back to a OPS around .915 but I think his ops should exceed 1.0 in the next couple of years.

I would love Robin on this team, but as a coach in a couple of years. There is no room for him on this team right now.

FanOf14
10-11-2002, 12:56 PM
PK's HR numbers were less than his career high and his BA was only a bit higher than his career average, but not by much. Every year he has improved his numbers in some way, shaper or form. I don't see why he can't at least match this year's numbers considering he'll only be 27 when next season starts.

Paulwny
10-11-2002, 01:24 PM
Ventura has stated that if he doesn't stay with the yankmees he'd prefer to play for a west coast team.

mrwag
10-11-2002, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by maurice
The 2003 Sox probably will be virtually indistinghishable from the September 2002 Sox.

That's not such a bad thing, given the way they played in September. I just hope we get a GOOD arm or 2. Leave everything else the same.

I loved Robin as much as anyone else, but let's be realistic. Crede's the man. I'd rather see Lee DH over Robin.

hold2dibber
10-11-2002, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Ventura has stated that if he doesn't stay with the yankmees he'd prefer to play for a west coast team.

He would seem like a good fit for the Mariners, but they're saddled with Cirillo at 3B. I don't know how long David Bell's contract is with the Giants or if Matt Williams is still under contract in Arizona (not technically a "coast" team, but close enough). The A's, Angels, Padres and Dodgers seem set at 3B. My bet is that he returns to the Yanks.

maurice
10-12-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The only Sox I would afraid of not meeting or exceeding is Konerko. 2002 may of been a career year, hopefully not but could of been his peak.

As FanOf14 pointed out, Konerko's 2002 numbers were in line with his stats from previous seasons:

1999: 71 R, 31 2B, 24 HR, 81 RBI, .863 OPS
2000: 84 R, 31 2B, 21 HR, 97 RBI, .844 OPS
2001: 92 R, 35 2B, 32 HR, 99 RBI, .856 OPS
2002: 81 R, 30 2B, 27 HR, 104 RBI, .857 OPS

Of these stats, only his RBI were a career high. While his performance traditionally varies widely month-to-month throughout the course of the season, his year-end stats are consistently good-but-not-great, and do not reflect any overall improvement or decline.

Maggs, OTOH, had a great year -- far and away his best as a hitter in a number of important categories:

1998: 70 R, 25 2B, 14 HR, 65 RBI, .741 OPS
1999: 100 R, 34 2B, 30 HR, 117 RBI, .859 OPS
2000: 102 R, 34 2B, 32 HR, 126 RBI, .917 OPS
2001: 97 R, 40 2B, 31 HR, 113 RBI, .915 OPS
2002: 116 R, 47 2B, 38 HR, 135 RBI, .978 OPS

He's shown steady improvement in his power numbers, but the spike in OPS could be evidence of a career year. Hopefully, that's not the case, and both Maggs and Paulie will be 1.000 OPS players for years to come...but I kind of doubt it.

I think it's more likely that 2003 will see Frank closer to his career 1.000 OPS, Maggs in the .900 range, and Konerko, Lee, and Crede in the .800 range.

harwar
10-14-2002, 09:01 AM
If there is a guy who hates reinsDORF more than i do,its Robin Ventura.He won't be back on the southside as long as ol cheek & jowls is still here.Also,why WOULD Cliff Floyd come here.The word is out about the White Sox.Manager->incompetent & confused,G.M.->sneaky mean bastard,who doesn't have a clue how to handle a big league club,Owner->meddling,manipulating,money-grabbing SOB,who likes to control his bag of cronies from behind the white curtain.

Hullett_Fan
10-14-2002, 09:32 AM
All our Sox need is a veteran Number 1 starter. Need to pick up Maddux or Glavine, whichever one doesn't re-sign with the Braves. Moyer would be OK too. Last thing we need is another position player (except maybe CF). Bullpen is pretty good (IMO).

hold2dibber
10-14-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
All our Sox need is a veteran Number 1 starter. Need to pick up Maddux or Glavine, whichever one doesn't re-sign with the Braves. Moyer would be OK too. Last thing we need is another position player (except maybe CF). Bullpen is pretty good (IMO).

I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that either Maddux or Glavine would sign with the Sox. Moyer seems possible, but not very likely either. Plus, all of those guys are up there in years and will demand huge $ contracts. I think it is more feasible, and otherwise preferable, for the Sox to make a trade for a stud starting pitcher. Bartolo Colon or Javier Vazquez may be available. If the Mets decide to rebuild, Al Leiter may be available. Marlins starting pitchers may be available. I'm sure there are others.

Hullett_Fan
10-14-2002, 01:14 PM
You're probably right. Colon or Leiter would be great additions. And the Marlins have some good arms. It would have been great to pick up Clement before last season (it only took Crazy Julian Tavarez to get him). Why didn't our GM look into that? (Rhetorical ?)

I pray we pickup that one or two starters to get us into the playoffs (Twins will have a letdown I hope and Indians will still stink). And as we see with Angels and Giants, once you're in the postseason anything can happen.

hold2dibber
10-14-2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
You're probably right. Colon or Leiter would be great additions. And the Marlins have some good arms. It would have been great to pick up Clement before last season (it only took Crazy Julian Tavarez to get him). Why didn't our GM look into that? (Rhetorical ?)

I pray we pickup that one or two starters to get us into the playoffs (Twins will have a letdown I hope and Indians will still stink). And as we see with Angels and Giants, once you're in the postseason anything can happen.

Every year there are a few pitchers who seemingly come from out of nowhere to have great years. Clement, Lopez (?) of the Orioles, Paul Byrd, Odalis Perez were all low-profile pick-ups last season who came up huge for their teams last year. Of course, it takes a savvy, smart GM to identify and obtain such "under the radar" guys. Our GM picked up Todd Ritchie. Ugh.