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DrCrawdad
10-01-2002, 10:26 PM
:knue

I was listening to WGN's Sports Central this evening. Paul Sullivan was on from Yankee Stadium. Dave Kaplan said that Sully was going to be with him at Wrigley next year. Sully dodged a bit and said that it was a rumour but that after the playoffs there would be an announcement.

Has anyone here heard about this?

If Sully is gone as the Sox beat writer, who is taking his place?

I sure hope it's not that Cubune butt kisser Teddy Greenstein. Teddy authored the Wrigley dead ivy slander, for that I'll never forgive him.

duke of dorwood
10-01-2002, 10:29 PM
:moron

Oh Mr Tribune, sir, I'm your guy

RKMeibalane
10-01-2002, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
:moron

Oh Mr Tribune, sir, I'm your guy

That's all we need. A Sox beat writer who can't find anything nice to say about the team, the park, or the nearby neighborhood. Moronotti needs to go on one of those two-year-explore-the-soul trips to the middle of the desert. That way, we won't have to put up with his crap.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2002, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
:knue

I was listening to WGN's Sports Central this evening. Paul Sullivan was on from Yankee Stadium. Dave Kaplan said that Sully was going to be with him at Wrigley next year. Sully dodged a bit and said that it was a rumour but that after the playoffs there would be an announcement.

Has anyone here heard about this?

If Sully is gone as the Sox beat writer, who is taking his place?

I sure hope it's not that Cubune butt kisser Teddy Greenstein. Teddy authored the Wrigley dead ivy slander, for that I'll never forgive him.

Don't be surprised if this happens.

Besides, it is not without precedent that the Cubune flips their baseball beatwriters. I wonder what Greenstein thinks about the switch. He is such a Cubune toadie, he can't possibly be happy about coming to the dark side.

:whiner:

And I'm sure he'll be a wonderfully objective source for Sox Fans to turn to, too.

Lip Man 1
10-02-2002, 12:38 AM
Folks:

I have it on very good authority that that is EXACTLY what is going to happen. Sullivan and Greenstein are switching beats.

Remember Greenstein covered the Sox in 1999 on a daily basis.

For those of you old enough to remember, at one time the Chicago papers switched the beat writers every season at the All Star Break.

If some of you don't care for Teddy's report on the Cubs accusing a Sox fan of killing the Ivy, why don't you get a head start and e-mail him at the Tribune. (Perhaps you can also ask him when the Cubs are going to apologize for it)

Lip

cheeses_h_rice
10-02-2002, 12:44 AM
...and let me guess, relieving Teddy G. on his off-days will be Jay Mariotti, George Knue, and Mark Giangreco, right?

Sheesh. Is it that hard to find a legitimate Sox fan to cover this damn team?


:knue

You bet your sweet bippie it is, Cheeses! LMAO!

DrCrawdad
10-02-2002, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

...If some of you don't care for Teddy's report on the Cubs accusing a Sox fan of killing the Ivy, why don't you get a head start and e-mail him at the Tribune. (Perhaps you can also ask him when the Cubs are going to apologize for it)

Lip

What's Teddy's email address? I couldn't find it on ChiCubSports.com.

I don't remember what Greenstein was like when he covered the Sox back in '99. Lip, what do you remember of Teddy's coverage of the Sox?

Teddy's head is so far buried so deep that he does need to come up for air.

CLR01
10-02-2002, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
What's Teddy's email address? I couldn't find it on ChiCubSports.com.

I don't remember what Greenstein was like when he covered the Sox back in '99. Lip, what do you remember of Teddy's coverage of the Sox?

Teddy's head is so far buried so deep that he does need to come up for air.


TGreenstein@tribune.com

All of the tribunes email addresses can be found @

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/site/chi-newspaperemail.story

Cheryl
10-02-2002, 08:39 AM
Already sent this:

Dear Mr. Greenstein,

Apparently you're going to be the White Sox beat reporter for the Tribune next year. So when are you going to apologize for slandering Sox fans about the dead ivy in Wrigley Field?

Cancelling my subscription,

I remain,

Cheryl Powell
Chicago IL

jortafan
10-02-2002, 08:59 AM
it's all part of the Tribune's belief that a Chicago baseball writer ought to be familiar with both teams and both major leagues, which in theory makes some sense. Considering that this was Sullivan's second stint with the Sox, don't be surprised if he gets shifted back to the South Side in a year or two.

soxtalker
10-02-2002, 12:37 PM
I don't have any strong feelings about Sullivan leaving the Sox beat. I didn't care for his numerous moratoriums on topics during the past year. It almost seemed like he was getting burned out on the team. He also didn't seem to be nearly as critical of management (KW, in particular) as many of us fans have been.

I haven't read much Greenstein, so I don't know how to evaluate him. I can see how the comments about the Ivy would irritate many of my fellow Sox fans, but it is probably what many Cubs fans were thinking at the time. So, rather than hating the Sox, maybe it indicates that he'll empathize with the fans.

That all brings up the general question, which I'll throw out to the board -- what are we looking for in a good beat writer? I'd like one who can give me a feel for what the club house is like. I'd also like to know what people in the other cities (e.g., the other sportswriters and players/managers) think about the Sox. And I think that I'd like to see the writer use his/her columns to provide a conduit for communication between the fans and the management.

voodoochile
10-02-2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
That all brings up the general question, which I'll throw out to the board -- what are we looking for in a good beat writer? I'd like one who can give me a feel for what the club house is like. I'd also like to know what people in the other cities (e.g., the other sportswriters and players/managers) think about the Sox. And I think that I'd like to see the writer use his/her columns to provide a conduit for communication between the fans and the management.

Someone who goes to the park, watches the games closely, dwells on baseball - not on the neighborhood and attendance, gets to know the players so they can get some good scoops and quotes and rips JR every chance they get.

Cover the team, not the marketing department. Cover the fans who do go to the games, not the ones who are too "afraid" to go. Don't worry about the projects across the streets or the steepness of the UD. Tell us how the team is doing and don't try to push their buttons. Go out, get the story. Report the story. Get up tomorrow and do it again...

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Someone who goes to the park, watches the games closely, dwells on baseball - not on the neighborhood and attendance, gets to know the players so they can get some good scoops and quotes and rips JR every chance they get.

Cover the team, not the marketing department. Cover the fans who do go to the games, not the ones who are too "afraid" to go. Don't worry about the projects across the streets or the steepness of the UD. Tell us how the team is doing and don't try to push their buttons. Go out, get the story. Report the story. Get up tomorrow and do it again...

You should e-mail that to Greenstein (except maybe the part about ripping JR as he probably will bristle at any suggestion that he be anything other than un-biased).

voodoochile
10-02-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
You should e-mail that to Greenstein (except maybe the part about ripping JR as he probably will bristle at any suggestion that he be anything other than un-biased).

The JR thing is just something that any good sportswriter should make a regular topic. I mean, what has JR done for the Sox? How have his moves helped the team? Someone needs to start pointing out that he hasn't exactly been a savior to this team, regardless of how many years they finish just above .500. Someone needs to start calling him on the carpet when he doesn't make the trades necessary to put the Sox over the top. I know they love to hammer the WFT and the strike, but JR can point to his division winner since then. They need to start detailing the month to month crap that JR manages to bring to the team and asking bluntly, "When will you spend the money to field a winner? When will you acquire a big time pitcher? When will the Sox start adding genuine talent down the stretch instead of decreasing payroll or signing another aging middle of the pack player?"

If I have to tell Teddy how to be objective and how to cover the team, he shouldn't be writing for an internationally known paper like the Trib anyway, but thanks for the suggestion.

Nellie_Fox
10-02-2002, 01:12 PM
I remember that the Sun-Times used to flip the Cubs and Sox writers at the allstar break. They would each write a column filling in the other on what he was getting into, and they would be printed side-by-side. It probably doesn't hurt to get a fresh perspective.

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The JR thing is just something that any good sportswriter should make a regular topic. I mean, what has JR done for the Sox? How have his moves helped the team? Someone needs to start pointing out that he hasn't exactly been a savior to this team, regardless of how many years they finish just above .500. Someone needs to start calling him on the carpet when he doesn't make the trades necessary to put the Sox over the top. I know they love to hammer the WFT and the strike, but JR can point to his division winner since then. They need to start detailing the month to month crap that JR manages to bring to the team and asking bluntly, "When will you spend the money to field a winner? When will you acquire a big time pitcher? When will the Sox start adding genuine talent down the stretch instead of decreasing payroll or signing another aging middle of the pack player?"

If I have to tell Teddy how to be objective and how to cover the team, he shouldn't be writing for an internationally known paper like the Trib anyway, but thanks for the suggestion.

You're preaching to the choir, man. At least since 1989 or so, virtually every decision he has made about the club has been a bad one. It is a remarkable history of incompetence. But all I was suggesting was that saying "rip on JR every chance you get" suggests that Teddy rip on JR whether deserved or not. Maybe instead of saying "rip on JR every chance you get" a more "delicate" way to say it would be "call JR on the carpet when he deserves it" or "don't hestitate to rip JR when called for" or something like that. That was my only point.

Lip Man 1
10-02-2002, 02:23 PM
Folks:

This is for what it's worth.

I communicated with a very high level source today. This individual told me, that at least PART of the reason for the upcoming switch of Sullivan and Greenstein is because Sullivan is not known as someone who supports the Tribune Company right or wrong.

Apparently some of the big bosses didn't care for some of the things Sully wrote about and the style in which he wrote it.

My source also told me that Greenstein is a die hard Yankees fan from New York City. This person also told me, Greenstein is known to support whatever decisions are made by Tribune executives. In other words, Teddy does have a tendency to play "politics."

My source also told me that since this news started leaking out, Sullivan has received numerous e-mails of support. Those of you may wish to send supportive e-mails DIRECTLY to the management of the Tribune (i.e. Sports Editors, Publisher, Managing Ediotrs etc...)

I don't know if this will do any good, the final decision may have already been made.

One last point about what you would want in a beat writer. Like it or not, issues about the neighborhood surrounding Comiskey Park, attendance woes, friction in the clubhouse and the politics of upper management are all part of the Sox story.

What happens in those areas DOES effect what happens on the field and why. They MUST be covered in order to try to get to the "truth".

Former CBS icon Walter Cronkite took issue with this same type of mentality at a news editors convention in San Antonio during the 70's. Cronkite ripped the industy for "telling people what they want to hear, not what they need to know..."

Lip

voodoochile
10-02-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
One last point about what you would want in a beat writer. Like it or not, issues about the neighborhood surrounding Comiskey Park, attendance woes, friction in the clubhouse and the politics of upper management are all part of the Sox story.

What happens in those areas DOES effect what happens on the field and why. They MUST be covered in order to try to get to the "truth".

Former CBS icon Walter Cronkite took issue with this same type of mentality at a news editors convention in San Antonio during the 70's. Cronkite ripped the industy for "telling people what they want to hear, not what they need to know..."

Lip


How much more do we need to hear about the empty seats? The "lousy neighborhood"? Hasn't this all been covered? Where is the other side of the coin? Where are the articles talking about gentrification? About the projects coming down? About the lower crime rates around Comiskey than around Wrigley? Where are the comments from diehard Sox fans who still go to games and have good reasons for going?

I don't mind when reporters report the truth, but what they are doing to the Sox is wish fulfillment. If you talk enough trash about a team, stadium and neighborhood, you will obviously have attendance woes to report on later. Yeah, there are problems, but it isn't like someone dies every Sox game, or that the UD is soooo steep that people are flying out of their seats. Be factual, but be fair...

Cheryl
10-02-2002, 03:14 PM
Voo beat me to it. The Trib, no wait--both dailies have relentlessly beat the bad neighborhood/steep UD/empty seats angles to death. It's the old 'tell the lie often enough, it becomes the truth' thing. The truths are;

1. While poorly designed, the UD is no steeper than any other ballpark built since 1990.

2. The crime rate is higher in Wrigleyville than around Comiskey.

3. Attendance is bad, and those seats should be green.

#3 is only true (the first part anyway) because of the misrepresentations of the local press. (see #1 and 2). At least partly, anyway.

DrCrawdad
10-02-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

This is for what it's worth.

I communicated with a very high level source today. This individual told me, that at least PART of the reason for the upcoming switch of Sullivan and Greenstein is because Sullivan is not known as someone who supports the Tribune Company right or wrong.

Apparently some of the big bosses didn't care for some of the things Sully wrote about and the style in which he wrote it.

My source also told me that Greenstein is a die hard Yankees fan from New York City. This person also told me, Greenstein is known to support whatever decisions are made by Tribune executives. In other words, Teddy does have a tendency to play "politics..."

Lip

I remembered that Lip in your interview with Sully, Sully made telling remark...

PS: "...Some people in management and some players donít understand that we are here to write the truth, not be public relations agents. I feel like Iíve always done that and I feel longtime Tribune readers respect that. That may be why Iím no longer covering the Cubs, but Iím better off with the Sox anyway."

So, Sully thought that at least in part the reason why he got switched from the Cubs was that Cubune management wanted someone who was less objective, less critical and more of a Cubune PR guy.

Ok, I donít know if Sully would approve of my interpretation of his words, but if Iím right then the Cubune had a guy they wanted in Teddy Greenstein. Jeez, Teddyís columns were more fitting for VineLine than a supposedly objective newspaper.

DVG
10-03-2002, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

I have it on very good authority that that is EXACTLY what is going to happen. Sullivan and Greenstein are switching beats.

Remember Greenstein covered the Sox in 1999 on a daily basis.

For those of you old enough to remember, at one time the Chicago papers switched the beat writers every season at the All Star Break.

If some of you don't care for Teddy's report on the Cubs accusing a Sox fan of killing the Ivy, why don't you get a head start and e-mail him at the Tribune. (Perhaps you can also ask him when the Cubs are going to apologize for it)

Lip

I'll tell you exactly when those slandering creeps will apologize
for it. The Twelfth of Never. I say save your e-mails. It won't do any good.

RichH55
10-03-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
it's all part of the Tribune's belief that a Chicago baseball writer ought to be familiar with both teams and both major leagues, which in theory makes some sense. Considering that this was Sullivan's second stint with the Sox, don't be surprised if he gets shifted back to the South Side in a year or two.



In theory, communism works as well.....I don't have a whole lot of faith in our baseball writers(most of our writers in general)....you find you can get alot better info on message boards or through other sources(baseball prospectus comes to mind) than the morons,etc of the world can provide

Lip Man 1
10-03-2002, 11:07 PM
This is the last answer from the last edition of "Ask Teddy Greenstein" in Friday's Chicago Tribune...

"Who stays; who goes? Thanks, Teddy. --Jerry Todd, Chicago

Who stays? Choi, Hill, Gonzalez, Alou, Patterson, Bellhorn, Sosa, Wood, Prior, Clement, Zambrano, Borowski, Cruz and Alfonseca, among others. And if the Cubs don't re-sign Echevarria, they're nuts. As for Farnsworth, who knows?

Who goes? Me. I'm switching to the Sox next year, and the frisky Paul Sullivan comes back on the Cubs beat. (As far as he and I know.)

Thanks for writing and reading."

Lip