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Lip Man 1
10-01-2002, 10:23 PM
Read my The Sporting News today and they had some interesting off season possibilities for the Sox (assuming the Sox want to do anything but cut payroll and dump on the fans!)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this starting pitcher: Bartolo Colon. With the Expos uncertain situation, especially if they stay in Montreal, he might be available. If he is, the Sox may be able to get him for two or three good prospects.

How about the Red Sox Dustin Hermanson? He was hurt this season but according to TSN, never had injury problems before. He's won in double figures with some bad teams before, throws hard and is experienced. he usually throws about 190+ innings a season.

Does James Baldwin have anything left? Remember it takes TWO years to come back from arm trouble. Baldwin may be OK next season.

How about a catching combo next year of Olivo and Joe Girardi? Girardi's a free agent. He doesn't hit much but calls a good game, is a well respected veteran and it would be a PR blow to the Cubs. The way he handled the Kile situation and the pre labor strike talk, impressed me. He thinks before he opens his mouth (unlike some of our "message sending" Sox) Olivo and Girardi I think is an improvement over Johnson and Paul.

I still think the bullpen needs to be shored up. "Flash" Gordon's available and he still has a hell of a curve ball for a strike out pitch. Mike Timlin's out there, he's had playoff experience and pitcher well for the Phils (ERA under 3.00). Also the Braves Chris Hammonds who had an ERA of 0.97!!!! is available.

The O's are probably going to let Chris Singleton go. Would the Sox want him back for his defense and speed (something Rowand doesn't have...)


Just wondering...

Lip

nut_stock
10-01-2002, 11:50 PM
Singleton will not voluntarily go to a team that would make him a 4th outfielder.

RKMeibalane
10-02-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock
Singleton will not voluntarily go to a team that would make him a 4th outfielder.

:slowswing

"I'm still living off my fluke 1999 season."

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Read my The Sporting News today and they had some interesting off season possibilities for the Sox (assuming the Sox want to do anything but cut payroll and dump on the fans!)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this starting pitcher: Bartolo Colon. With the Expos uncertain situation, especially if they stay in Montreal, he might be available. If he is, the Sox may be able to get him for two or three good prospects.

How about the Red Sox Dustin Hermanson? He was hurt this season but according to TSN, never had injury problems before. He's won in double figures with some bad teams before, throws hard and is experienced. he usually throws about 190+ innings a season.

Does James Baldwin have anything left? Remember it takes TWO years to come back from arm trouble. Baldwin may be OK next season.

How about a catching combo next year of Olivo and Joe Girardi? Girardi's a free agent. He doesn't hit much but calls a good game, is a well respected veteran and it would be a PR blow to the Cubs. The way he handled the Kile situation and the pre labor strike talk, impressed me. He thinks before he opens his mouth (unlike some of our "message sending" Sox) Olivo and Girardi I think is an improvement over Johnson and Paul.

I still think the bullpen needs to be shored up. "Flash" Gordon's available and he still has a hell of a curve ball for a strike out pitch. Mike Timlin's out there, he's had playoff experience and pitcher well for the Phils (ERA under 3.00). Also the Braves Chris Hammonds who had an ERA of 0.97!!!! is available.

The O's are probably going to let Chris Singleton go. Would the Sox want him back for his defense and speed (something Rowand doesn't have...)


Just wondering...

Lip

Considering the quality of prospects that the Expos gave up to get Colon, the price would be VERY steep for the Sox to get him from Les Expos. As I recall, the Expos gave up their best prospect (Brandon Phillips?) and a few other good ones. So it would, in my estimation, probably require giving up Borchard or Rauch, plus more, to get him. I'm not sure that he would be worth it (particularly since I don't know his contract status).

Hermanson doesn't do much for me; I see him as a back of the rotation guy and the Sox have plenty of guys who I think are above average for back of the rotation slots. The Sox need a bona fide no. 2 not another no. 4.

I'd love to see them pick up some veteran bullpen help. I've always been a big Timlin fan and I agree that Gordon could be effective, as long as he could accept not (necessarily) being the closer. I'd be shocked if Hammonds doesn't return to Atlanta.

And I have no desire to see Slow Swing back in a Sox uniform. He does have speed and is a decent defender, but his (apparent) lethargy on the field pisses me off to no end. I don't know that I think Rowand is better, but I think there is something to be said for energy and hustle and Rowand brings those attributes big time.

bc2k
10-02-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1


How about a catching combo next year of Olivo and Joe Girardi? Girardi's a free agent. He doesn't hit much but calls a good game, is a well respected veteran and it would be a PR blow to the Cubs. The way he handled the Kile situation and the pre labor strike talk, impressed me. He thinks before he opens his mouth (unlike some of our "message sending" Sox) Olivo and Girardi I think is an improvement over Johnson and Paul.
Lip

I wouldn't mind seeing Girardi and Olivo in 2003. Another good point about Girardi is that he stood up to Sosa and turned off his Salsa music. Even if you take in account team chemistry, Joe Girardi would be a good addition.

Dadawg_77
10-02-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Considering the quality of prospects that the Expos gave up to get Colon, the price would be VERY steep for the Sox to get him from Les Expos. As I recall, the Expos gave up their best prospect (Brandon Phillips?) and a few other good ones. So it would, in my estimation, probably require giving up Borchard or Rauch, plus more, to get him. I'm not sure that he would be worth it (particularly since I don't know his contract status).
.

If the Expos stay put, they may not be able to aford him, so his price may go down.

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
How about a catching combo next year of Olivo and Joe Girardi? Girardi's a free agent. He doesn't hit much but calls a good game, is a well respected veteran and it would be a PR blow to the Cubs. The way he handled the Kile situation and the pre labor strike talk, impressed me. He thinks before he opens his mouth (unlike some of our "message sending" Sox) Olivo and Girardi I think is an improvement over Johnson and Paul.


Offensively, MJ and Girardi are pretty much a wash:

Girardi vs. MJ 2002 comparison (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section1=2&statSet1=1&statType=1&sortByStat=AVG&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2002&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage1=2&readBoxes=true&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=2&box62=XXXX114833chn2&box78=XXXX150322cha2&compare.x=18&compare.y=4)

I have no clue who is better defensively or in terms of handling a pitching staff. But MJ hits lefty whereas Olivo is righty, so if they're comparable defensively, I would think that would sway the decision in favor of keeping MJ instead of Girardi.

voodoochile
10-02-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If the Expos stay put, they may not be able to aford him, so his price may go down.

Good point. MLB cannot afford to continue to run the Expos. They cannot contract them. They really can't move them until they get sold. They can't sell them unless they agree to let them move. I think all of those issues will weigh heavily on the final roster. MLB will be forced to move some money off the squad. For all my teasing about Colon, I say let the fat man cometh...

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Good point. MLB cannot afford to continue to run the Expos. They cannot contract them. They really can't move them until they get sold. They can't sell them unless they agree to let them move. I think all of those issues will weigh heavily on the final roster. MLB will be forced to move some money off the squad. For all my teasing about Colon, I say let the fat man cometh...

Even if it meant dealing, for instance, Rauch and Malone or Borchard and Wee Willie, or Honel and Olivo, or something like that?

voodoochile
10-02-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Even if it meant dealing, for instance, Rauch and Malone or Borchard and Wee Willie, or Honel and Olivo, or something like that?

They can have Harris. I am not sold on that kid at all. I would be skeptical of trading more young prospects to be honest, but talent to get talent. It will never happen anyway. JR hates fat pitchers...

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
They can have Harris. I am not sold on that kid at all. I would be skeptical of trading more young prospects to be honest, but talent to get talent. It will never happen anyway. JR hates fat pitchers...

That reminds me of a time in the mid 90s when the Sox had the "weight impaired" Carlos Castillo, Alex Fernandez and Wilson Alverez on the roster (any others?). My Dad and I thought it would be funny to bring a sign to a game that said, "PLEASE DON'T FEED THE PITCHERS."

spanishwhite
10-02-2002, 02:42 PM
Colon is the only one out of all the people you mentioned
to go after. (maybe Girardi)

Hermanson? please... that sounds worse than Ritchie and you would probably be the first to start complaining once he starts his decline.

In terms of Colon

Foulke, Lee, and Rauch/Honel/Malone/Garland/Wright

That is more than the Expos gave up and looking at their lf and rp
it is not like they couldn't use them.

The Expos gave Stevens, Lee, Phillips, & Sizemore
Lee and Phillips being the keys to the trade.

It seems reasonable to me and affordable to both sides. We would probably have to eat most of Foulke's salary to make it affordable for both sides. But we get a true number one starter who has performed well in the post season and they get two possible solid starters with a solid left fielder.

hold2dibber
10-02-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
Colon is the only one out of all the people you mentioned
to go after. (maybe Girardi)

Hermanson? please... that sounds worse than Ritchie and you would probably be the first to start complaining once he starts his decline.

In terms of Colon

Foulke, Lee, and Rauch/Honel/Malone/Garland/Wright

That is more than the Expos gave up and looking at their lf and rp
it is not like they couldn't use them.

The Expos gave Stevens, Lee, Phillips, & Sizemore
Lee and Phillips being the keys to the trade.

It seems reasonable to me and affordable to both sides. We would probably have to eat most of Foulke's salary to make it affordable for both sides. But we get a true number one starter who has performed well in the post season and they get two possible solid starters with a solid left fielder.

I seem to recall, however, that Colon only has one more year on his contract. I would like to have him, and would probably be willing to pay the price you suggest (though I sure would rather give up Malone than any of the other starting pitchers you mention) but I'd want to get an agreement on a 2 or 3 year extension first.