PDA

View Full Version : Bring on 2003! (There! I said it!)


kingpin_rcs
09-23-2002, 11:18 AM
I know that for this board, optomism is generally taboo but I have always been an optomist about the Sox.

Obviously, the Sox have been playing much better ball in the last month or so. Is this going to give us a false sence of hope for 2003? I, for one, don't think so for the following reasons:

1. Starting pitching. Some of the young arms are starting to show maturity and confidence. Garlend, Wright and even Rauch (base on his last start) are pitching well. Burhle is a good pitcher and worthy of his ace status. Will Foulke be a statrter next year? Don't know but trying to decide whether to start or come out of the bullpen good problem to have, I think.

2. Frank Thomas. He is on the verge of a 30hr/100rbi season. The average is down but BA is a misleading and overratted stat. He has played much better in the last month and I think he will return to FT like numbers next year.

3. Magglio - 300/30/100 4 years - stud. MVP if the Sox win.

4. Crede - He will make us ask "Robin who?"

5. Jimmenez - Guy looks like he can hit, looking forward to a full season with him.

6. Olivio - A big improvement at catcher - badly needed.

7. Royce Clayton - the most underrated move by KW in late 2002 - the clubhouse cancer is gone - good riddance - don't let the door hit you in the A**!

8. The enthusiasm of youth. The importance of team chemistry should never be underestimated. When you have a group of guys who all play for the sake of the team and not for themselves - extraordinary things can happen.

9. There are other reasons to be excited for next year. Naturally, there are a lot of "if" (when aren't there). I for one will be counting down the days until spring training.

hold2dibber
09-23-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by kingpin_rcs
I know that for this board, optomism is generally taboo but I have always been an optomist about the Sox.

Obviously, the Sox have been playing much better ball in the last month or so. Is this going to give us a false sence of hope for 2003? I, for one, don't think so for the following reasons:

1. Starting pitching. Some of the young arms are starting to show maturity and confidence. Garlend, Wright and even Rauch (base on his last start) are pitching well. Burhle is a good pitcher and worthy of his ace status. Will Foulke be a statrter next year? Don't know but trying to decide whether to start or come out of the bullpen good problem to have, I think.

2. Frank Thomas. He is on the verge of a 30hr/100rbi season. The average is down but BA is a misleading and overratted stat. He has played much better in the last month and I think he will return to FT like numbers next year.

3. Magglio - 300/30/100 4 years - stud. MVP if the Sox win.

4. Crede - He will make us ask "Robin who?"

5. Jimmenez - Guy looks like he can hit, looking forward to a full season with him.

6. Olivio - A big improvement at catcher - badly needed.

7. Royce Clayton - the most underrated move by KW in late 2002 - the clubhouse cancer is gone - good riddance - don't let the door hit you in the A**!

8. The enthusiasm of youth. The importance of team chemistry should never be underestimated. When you have a group of guys who all play for the sake of the team and not for themselves - extraordinary things can happen.

9. There are other reasons to be excited for next year. Naturally, there are a lot of "if" (when aren't there). I for one will be counting down the days until spring training.

The only thing that really matters are the starting pitchers. If Garland and Wright pitch consistently next year like they have over the last 4-6 weeks, and if Ritchie returns to his pre-White Sox form, the Sox will be right there in terms of competing for the division. But I think these are very big "if's". Garland pitched great in the second half last year, but still was incredibly inconsistent for the majority of this year. Wright has a great arm and the potential to be a top notch starter, but again I'm not convinced he's a guy you can count on each start. I am cautiously optimistic - they could be a 90 win team next year. On the other hand, they could be a 78 win team next season if the pitching doesn't pan out. But with that said, I already feel a lot better with Cooper running the show than I did with Contreras. We'll see.

Lip Man 1
09-23-2002, 12:28 PM
It's very hard to make ANY judgements at this time.

These games are meaningless, much like Spring training.

Also you have to factor in what the Sox do in the off season, (if anything, given the fact that they want the payroll next season at a Kansas City like 45 million dollars), and how any deals that Ken Williams makes turn out.

So far his track record is nothing to write home about.

Lip

doublem23
09-23-2002, 12:50 PM
I'm just going to forget that "Robin who?" comment.

:)

Iwritecode
09-23-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I already feel a lot better with Cooper running the show than I did with Contreras. We'll see.

I think that fact alone should make the pitching staff better next year...

ChiSoxBobette
09-23-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It's very hard to make ANY judgements at this time.

These games are meaningless, much like Spring training.

Also you have to factor in what the Sox do in the off season, (if anything, given the fact that they want the payroll next season at a Kansas City like 45 million dollars), and how any deals that Ken Williams makes turn out.

So far his track record is nothing to write home about.

Lip
I would'nt say that these last few games against the twinkies were meaningless especially for next year, I was at all of the games the Sox played the twinkies this year at Sox park and the earlier season games the twinkies faced a completely different team that the White Sox had out on that field these last three games Crede at 3rd, Rowand in C.F., Jimenez at 2nd Thomas the way he's started hitting, Maggs just being Maggs,C.Lee's hitting and the starting staff Buehrle,Garland( who this year I've been on pretty hard but it's like a completely different Garland out there I think maybe seeing/watching Buehrle has helped along with Cooper),Wright (same as I've said about Garland)and I think Glover will be a great long/short reliever,Foulke whos found his
form . Last night, Sat, & Friday watching how the twins played the Sox and the players the twins fielded it was'nt a bunch of players they have just brought up it was thier starters & thier starting pitching staff. I'm pretty confident that the Sox can compete for the division next year , if they go out and pickup a proven veteran starting pitcher or if in Spring training it looks like Ritchie has come around. I think these next 3 games vs the twins in Minn. will tell us if the twins feel thses games are meaningless as far as who will be the biggest threat to them retaining
the division. If they send out a bunch of rookies they've just called up then they are thinking about this years playoffs , but if they start thier starters then thier manager is also thinking about next year. My opinion the twins made thier 1st step - getting to the playoffs, right now I don't think they can compete with the A's or angels especially thier starting pitching staff , who the Sox lit up for 32 runs in 3 games. Maybe those Sox young players put some doubt in the minds of a team that earlier in the year when I watched them did'nt think the White Sox could beat them even if they were down by 10 runs , this weekend the White Sox team I saw seemed to tell the twinkies not to think to much of themselves. The same way the White Sox year did'nt turn out like everyone thought it would can very well happen to the twinkies next year.
Go White Sox
Go Joe & Joe
:)

hold2dibber
09-23-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
I would'nt say that these last few games against the twinkies were meaningless especially for next year, I was at all of the games the Sox played the twinkies this year at Sox park and the earlier season games the twinkies faced a completely different team that the White Sox had out on that field these last three games Crede at 3rd, Rowand in C.F., Jimenez at 2nd Thomas the way he's started hitting, Maggs just being Maggs,C.Lee's hitting and the starting staff Buehrle,Garland( who this year I've been on pretty hard but it's like a completely different Garland out there I think maybe seeing/watching Buehrle has helped along with Cooper),Wright (same as I've said about Garland)and I think Glover will be a great long/short reliever,Foulke whos found his
form . Last night, Sat, & Friday watching how the twins played the Sox and the players the twins fielded it was'nt a bunch of players they have just brought up it was thier starters & thier starting pitching staff. I'm pretty confident that the Sox can compete for the division next year , if they go out and pickup a proven veteran starting pitcher or if in Spring training it looks like Ritchie has come around. I think these next 3 games vs the twins in Minn. will tell us if the twins feel thses games are meaningless as far as who will be the biggest threat to them retaining
the division. If they send out a bunch of rookies they've just called up then they are thinking about this years playoffs , but if they start thier starters then thier manager is also thinking about next year. My opinion the twins made thier 1st step - getting to the playoffs, right now I don't think they can compete with the A's or angels especially thier starting pitching staff , who the Sox lit up for 32 runs in 3 games. Maybe those Sox young players put some doubt in the minds of a team that earlier in the year when I watched them did'nt think the White Sox could beat them even if they were down by 10 runs , this weekend the White Sox team I saw seemed to tell the twinkies not to think to much of themselves. The same way the White Sox year did'nt turn out like everyone thought it would can very well happen to the twinkies next year.
Go White Sox
Go Joe & Joe
:)

I agree that the Sox, obviously, looked much better this time around against the Twins. But you have to keep in mind that these games do not have the same meaning to the Twins as the ones they played vs. the Sox earlier this year; when they played before, the Division title was still on the line. This weekend, the games had no bearing on the Division title. Even if the Twins had the sames guys on the field, they simply are not going to have the same intensity now that they had in July.

With that said, I remember at the end of 2000 when the Sox kind of limped into the playoffs and they got spanked around a bit by the Twins at the end of th eyear. I think that may have helped that young Twins team figure out that they could contend and they've been on the upswing ever since. Hopefully the end of this season has the same impact for our young guys. But I don't think we should get too excited.

RKMeibalane
09-23-2002, 09:23 PM
It's too early to think about 2003, I think. I'm still waiting to see how the Sox finish this season, and I'm hoping they don't do anyting stupid during the off-season that would cripple the team. Given how well he has played this month, I think it's clear that Frank Thomas should remain with the Sox. The boos have finally silenced at the park, and the anti-Frank comments are no longer made on this board.

I would like to see Buehrle win twenty. I think this would go a long way in terms of him establishing himself as one of the good young pitchers in baseball. I look forward to more success from him in the future.

Carlos Lee is something of an enigma. Earlier in the year, after he was picked off during the Montrel game, it looked as though his days as a Southsider were over. The Cubs series served as his turning point. He's been much more productive since that day he pummled the Flubs at the Urinal.

Twins8791
09-24-2002, 02:20 AM
2003:
Twins finish first.
Sox second, 2 games back.
Noone else close.

hold2dibber
09-24-2002, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Twins8791
2003:
Twins finish first.
Sox second, 2 games back.
Noone else close.

Certainly possible; much depends upon Pohlad's willingness to spend to keep their core group together and upon their previously unheralded bullpen repeating its remarkable success of this season.

RichH55
09-24-2002, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Certainly possible; much depends upon Pohlad's willingness to spend to keep their core group together and upon their previously unheralded bullpen repeating its remarkable success of this season.


I wouldnt bet on that bullpen again...but we will see....with contraction no longer looming, that could hurt the on the field product

bc2k
09-25-2002, 12:21 AM
The way I see it, over the next few years, the White Sox have a great chance to win the World Series with this young core.

If the Sox sign Maddux and Cliff Floyd in the off-season, they would be Pennant contenders. Use the diminished skills clause on Thomas to free up the remaining $40+ million to supplement Maddux and Floyd's salaries.

Lee as DH, Floyd in left. Borchard in AAA all year. Lee, who is not signed past 2003, becomes expendable if Borchard is ready for 2004.

Jimenez
Rowand/Valentin
Lee (At the rate he walks, let him set the table for #'s 4 & 5)
Ordonez
Konerko
Floyd
Crede
Valentin/Rowand
Olivo

Buehrle
Maddux
Ritchie
Garland
Wright

Biddle
Ginter
Porzio
Osuna
Glover
Marte
Foulke

I'm sure I'm going to get ripped on for this.... "All the Sox have to do is sign the entire American League All-Star team."

Lip Man 1
09-25-2002, 01:55 AM
"I'm sure I'm going to get ripped on this..."

Lip says: You're RIGHT!!!!!

First off Greg Maddux will NEVER sign with the Sox because Uncle Jerry won't offer him a long enough contract. (Plus he's in his late 30's!)I would think the news over the past six years (at least) would have convinced you of this.

Second, Cliff Floyd in his contract has a NO TRADE clause (as reported by The Sporting News) to the White Sox. Very revealing since he grew up on the South Side and said in an article in Sports Illustrated, that he grew up rooting for the Sox and Harold Baines. If he had a no trade cluse in his deal, stopping teams from trading him to the Sox, what makes you think he's going to sign with them as a free agent? The outfield is crowded up enough the way it is, it makes no sense to sign Floyd, although I think he's a helluva player.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but let's get real here.

Lip

RichH55
09-25-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"I'm sure I'm going to get ripped on this..."

Lip says: You're RIGHT!!!!!

First off Greg Maddux will NEVER sign with the Sox because Uncle Jerry won't offer him a long enough contract. (Plus he's in his late 30's!)I would think the news over the past six years (at least) would have convinced you of this.

Second, Cliff Floyd in his contract has a NO TRADE clause (as reported by The Sporting News) to the White Sox. Very revealing since he grew up on the South Side and said in an article in Sports Illustrated, that he grew up rooting for the Sox and Harold Baines. If he had a no trade cluse in his deal, stopping teams from trading him to the Sox, what makes you think he's going to sign with them as a free agent? The outfield is crowded up enough the way it is, it makes no sense to sign Floyd, although I think he's a helluva player.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but let's get real here.

Lip


I'm going to have to agree here........I don't think dipping into the free agent market is out of the question....but to do it to add another hitter seems farfetched at best(especially when we are pretty solid in the OF)....Maddux would be a definate stretch as well, especially with the money he will command. A guy like Moyer, or even to a lesser extent a Byrd, seems the best case scenario...Im a big proponent of Moyer myself, but we will have to see

hold2dibber
09-25-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
The way I see it, over the next few years, the White Sox have a great chance to win the World Series with this young core.

If the Sox sign Maddux and Cliff Floyd in the off-season, they would be Pennant contenders. Use the diminished skills clause on Thomas to free up the remaining $40+ million to supplement Maddux and Floyd's salaries.



You forgot to use deeppink (the pipe dream color)!

RichH55
09-25-2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
You forgot to use deeppink (the pipe dream color)!


Its bc2k....so you use the skip over this post Im not bringing anything to the table and trying to bash Thomas color

DrCrawdad
09-25-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"I'm sure I'm going to get ripped on this..."

Lip says: You're RIGHT!!!!!

First off Greg Maddux will NEVER sign with the Sox because Uncle Jerry won't offer him a long enough contract. (Plus he's in his late 30's!)I would think the news over the past six years (at least) would have convinced you of this...

Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but let's get real here.

Lip

Greg Maddux pitching for the Sox? I do love that pipe dream. If youre gonna dream, dream big.

{Start the harp sounds}

That would be excellent for a few reasons.

First, Maddux is a great pitcher. Cy Young move over.

Second Maddux would set a great example for our young guns. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Cal Eldred did back in 2000.

I read today in the Daily Herald that Gary Sheffield is even more awed with Maddux after being with the Braves this year. Sheffield said, Me and Julio Franco were talking about how unbelievable (Maddux) is. He's in a different world. When you see him close up, like I have this year, you realize he's the smartest pitcher ever, and he's one of the best ever, too. Id say that is well desired and pretty high praise.

Third, Maddux would be a real veteran pitcher not an imposter like Todd Ritchie or Jaimie Navarro.

The fourth reason it would be great to get Maddux, can you imagine how that would tick off Cub fans? Its not a good reason, but it sure could be a fun one.

{Fade out the harp sounds}

ScottyTheSoxFan
09-25-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Maddux and Cliff Floyd

i like the idea. BUT to JR all maddux and floyd are is navarro and belle. hes not gonna do it.

RichH55
09-26-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Greg Maddux pitching for the Sox? I do love that pipe dream. If youre gonna dream, dream big.

{Start the harp sounds}

That would be excellent for a few reasons.

First, Maddux is a great pitcher. Cy Young move over.

Second Maddux would set a great example for our young guns. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Cal Eldred did back in 2000.

I read today in the Daily Herald that Gary Sheffield is even more awed with Maddux after being with the Braves this year. Sheffield said, Me and Julio Franco were talking about how unbelievable (Maddux) is. He's in a different world. When you see him close up, like I have this year, you realize he's the smartest pitcher ever, and he's one of the best ever, too. Id say that is well desired and pretty high praise.

Third, Maddux would be a real veteran pitcher not an imposter like Todd Ritchie or Jaimie Navarro.

The fourth reason it would be great to get Maddux, can you imagine how that would tick off Cub fans? Its not a good reason, but it sure could be a fun one.

{Fade out the harp sounds}


The cheaper and more doable version is Jamie Moyer....you still get to piss off Cubs fans though:)

DrCrawdad
09-26-2002, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
The cheaper and more doable version is Jamie Moyer....you still get to piss off Cubs fans though:)

Good point.


Greg Maddux
Jamie Moyer
Tom Glavine
Get them all here! This is a pipe dream!
Buehrle
Wright, Garland, or whomever.

RichH55
09-26-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Good point.


Greg Maddux
Jamie Moyer
Tom Glavine
Get them all here! This is a pipe dream!
Buehrle
Wright, Garland, or whomever.



Im not being greedy here:) Cmon.....He isnt the top FA guy out there, Seattle has some promising youngsters coming up, Moyer shouldnt command big money, and as far as giving older pitches a few years on the deal with the way Moyer pitches injuries shouldnt be a huge worry

hold2dibber
09-26-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Im not being greedy here:) Cmon.....He isnt the top FA guy out there, Seattle has some promising youngsters coming up, Moyer shouldnt command big money, and as far as giving older pitches a few years on the deal with the way Moyer pitches injuries shouldnt be a huge worry

Why don't you think Moyer will command big $? He has been awfully effective over the last few years. Leiter just signed a 2 year $20 million extension; he's just about as old and has been no more effective than Moyer the last few years. I expect Moyer to command a 2 year deal for between $7.5 $9 million per year. There's no way the Sox will pay that freight.