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WillieHarris12
09-21-2002, 06:38 PM
The 2002 White Sox Season Review
By KeithFoulke2 (aka WillieHarris12)
Final Record: TBD

The White Sox started out the season 15-7 and most fans thought it was the year. Kenny Lofton hit .380 in April, a distant memory. Royce Clayton had 0 errors and Todd Ritchie had a 3.18 ERA into May. Somewhere around May 26, if I am correct, the White Sox hit a skid, then a slump, and then dropped off of the face of the earth. They played sub .500 baseball for 3 or more months and then they had a garage sale. Ray Durham was sold to the A's for minor league pitcher Jon Adkins. Kenny Lofton was told to continue his slumps elsewhere, in the bay area. Bob Howry was delt to the Red Sox for two minor leaguers and Sandy Alomar went to a hitters heaven, even though he was hitting about .290 when he had been traded. Finally 2 weeks ago, Royce Clayton was waived. So what went wrong? Well you could say pitching, but I say lack of leadership. Kenny Lofton was a good leader until he started to slump and throw tantrums. When Ray Durham doesn't play well, he talks to himself. Frank Thomas was hitting .230 and not showing up on time to games. Todd Ritchie has no relationship with anyone in the clubhouse and Royce Clayton was too busy claiming that he is "The best shortstop in Baseball". So Ken Williams decided to sell to the highest bidder and everyone who had some value was sold, for guys with potential, like D'Angelo Jimenez. Although not all was sold, you can't blame Williams because you couldn't sell Clayton or Ritchie on ebay. Then guys were called up. It started with Willie Harris, who homered his first night up. Then Jimenez who was hitting the cover off the ball. Joe Crede was inserted to the starting lineup and has hit 10 homers since he came up in late August. Joe Borchard, yet another outfielder, has hit 2 home runs in limited play. Including one in his first Major League game. Miguel Olivo (C) hit a home run in his first at bat in the majors and even threw out a runner, with time to spare. Jon Rauch has been recovering well after Tommy John surgery. Here's an In depth look at the 2003 season.

Grading the 2002 Team

Team
Offense: B+ First half team: C+. Second Half team: A. The young players looked great at the end of the season. The White Sox also hit 200+ HR again.
Pitching: C [i]Buehrle has proven himself. Wright and Garland seem to have potential, they should get another chance in '03. Biddle, Foulke, Marte, and Wunsch had nice years. Osuna was decent but not spectacular. And Ritchie and Glover were disasterous.

Individual
Catchers-
Mark Johnson- (F) He had less than 20 RBI's and hit .200 in about 200+ at bats.
Josh Paul- (C-) He had a 10-20 streak and then had a slump. He is hitting around .250.
Miguel Olivo- (B+)- Has done great things in limited time. We need to see if he is consistent.

1st Base-
Paul Konerko- (A-) Very nice stats for the 26 year old. Should help even more in 03.

2nd Base-
Willie Harris- (C-)- Is fast but is too inconsistent to play every day.
D'Angelo Jimenez (B-)- He can hit above .280 and shows promise to be an everyday 2B.
Tony Graffanino (C)- Was good to fill in for a couple of days, but he isn't a starter.
Short Stop-
Jose Valentin- (B)- Hit around 25 home runs again this season. He also drove in a good deal of runs.

3rd Base-
Joe Crede- (A-)- The kid showed star power with 10 homers, a .287 AVG, and about 30 RBI's in 171 AB's.

Outfield-
Magglio Ordonez (A)- The .300-30-100 man did it again.
Carlos Lee (B-)- Hit 25 home runs but didn't hit consistently. It hurt the team.
Aaron Rowand (C-)- In 278 ABs he hit .250 with 7 HRs and 28 RBIs.
Joe Borchard (B+)- Is 11-25 (.280) with 2 home runs and 5 RBI.

Pitchers-
Mark Buehrle (A)- Approached 20 wins and had an ERA in the mid 3's.
Jon Garland (C+)- ERA hovered in the 4.50's, he got his share of wins and showed brilliance. Pitched a CGSO too.
Dan Wright (C)- Recieved a nice amount of wins. Pitched a CGSO, but his ERA was near 5.30.
Rocky Biddle (C+)- Needs to be made into a starter but he showed some great potential in the second half. His ERA was in the 4.10's.
Todd Ritchie (D-)- ERA in the 6's is no excuse. Neither is 15 losses.
Damaso Marte (A)- He put his ERA under 3 and became one of the best LHP relievers in the game. He struck out 70+ in about 60 innings too.
Keith Foulke (A-)- Despite first half struggles, he pitched many scoreless innings in the second half to bring his ERA to 3.00.
Kelly Wunsch (B)- ERA in the 3.20's was nice to see after season ending surgery in 2001.
Antonio Osuna (B-)- In the AL an ERA in the low 4.00's isn't too bad. He also was 8-2.
Gary Glover (C-)- He gave up to many runs.
Mike Porzio (C)- He would be a great mopup, but I don't see why he is in the majors.
Matt Ginter (C)- He did a nice job pitching mopup this year. But we shouldn't need him if we have Porzio. It's one or the other.


[i]2003 Season Projections

Lineup

2B- D'Angelo Jimenez
SS- Jose Valentin
DH- Frank Thomas
RF- Magglio Ordonez
1B- Paul Konerko
3B- Joe Crede
LF- Carlos Lee
CF- Joe Borchard
C- Miguel Olivo

Bench
CF- Aaron Rowand
C- Josh Paul
IF- Tony Graffanino

Released, Traded or Demoted Players:
Released: Mark Johnson
Traded: Jeff Liefer

The White Sox have more than enough Catchers. They will probably get rid of Johnson or Paul. Paul might be more likely to be traded since Manuel is obsessed with Johnson's ability to "hit" lefty. The fans would probably for the most part like to see Paul as a backup because he can hit more often then Johnson and has better speed. The White Sox need to let go of an outfielder. Either Jeff Liefer or Carlos Lee will be traded. I would like to see Liefer go just because Lee has more experience. Lee is also younger. Aaron Rowand will likely remain a utility unless some team is interested in him.

Projected Stats

2B- D'Angelo Jimenez .283 8 HR 64 RBI
Will have a productive leadoff season. Should reach base almost every game.
SS- Jose Valentin .271 27 HR 82 RBI
He wants to be a contender, with the White Sox. It will show.
DH- Frank Thomas .316 31 HR 110 RBI
[i]The 2000 Thomas will be back, he is beggining to show his star power again.
RF- Magglio Ordonez .307 33 HR 117 RBI
Ordonez will get his 5th straight .300-30-100.
1B- Paul Konerko .290 30 HR 101 RBI
More home runs, less average.
3B- Joe Crede .289 29 HR 84 RBI
Has 10 MLB home runs and 25 minor league homers this season.
LF- Carlos Lee .269 25 HR 81 RBI
Might be streaky, but he will quietly hit 25 homers
CF- Joe Borchard .260 28 HR 79 RBI
Young, poweful, and a free swinger.
C- Miguel Olivo .292 16 HR 71 RBI
A young pudge, but somehow improved. The world has yet to see him.

This lineup will be supierior to almost any team in home runs. The chemistry looks good too. I think the pieces in the puzzle fit. Hopefully this lineup is kept. It could help the White Sox beat out the Twins for the AL Central title.

Rotation
1- Mark Buehrle
2- Jon Garland
3- Rocky Biddle
4- Dan Wright
5- Keith Foulke

Relievers
Jon Rauch
Damaso Marte
Edwin Almonte
Kelly Wunsch
Matt Ginter
Ken Vining
Felix Diaz
Gary Glover

I see Ritchie either being released or headed to the minors. He seems to be a huge bust next season. Rauch, Almonte (2.24 ERA, 26 saves at AAA), Vining (2.87 in 47 IP at AAA), and Diaz (3.48 ERA, 4-0 6 GS at AA) should have a good spring. They are going to get enough innings throughout the year, Ginter will be mopup and Glover and Vining will work MR. Diaz should be a spot starter and Marte or Almonte will close. Jon Adkins may make the team too. He had a 3.69 ERA at AAA Charlotte in 7 starts.

Projected Stats

Rotation
1- Mark Buehrle 21-8 3.28 ERA
Will have a better season than even last year
2- Jon Garland 14-9 4.05 ERA
Will start converting potential to talent.
3- Rocky Biddle 12-11 4.13 ERA
Will pitch 5 and 1/3 IP, but he will keep his team in the game.
4- Dan Wright 10-10 4.35 ERA
Like Garland, he will get the hang of things.
5- Keith Foulke 13-9 3.89 ERA
Could be great, he has the pitches to be dominant like Derek Lowe was.

Relievers
Jon Rauch 4-6 3.99 ERA
Damaso Marte 3-1 3.30 ERA 11 Saves
Edwin Almonte 2-4 3.05 ERA 8 Saves
Kelly Wunsch 5-1 3.77 ERA 1 Save
Matt Ginter 1-1 4.52 ERA
Ken Vining 3-4 4.12 ERA
Felix Diaz 5-0 3.91 ERA
Gary Glover 1-4 5.37 ERA

2003 All-Stars
RF- Magglio Ordonez
DH- Frank Thomas
SP- Mark Buehrle
3B- Joe Crede

Overall Record: 94-68 (1st in AL Central by 6.5 games.)

What I would like to see:
Young pitchers getting the call to the MLB at the start of the season.
The aquisition of at least one good veteran pitcher. Maybe Maddux. Atlanta may let him go. They might not have enough money. Although it is even more unlikely for him to go to the AL, and the White Sox on top of that.

This team has potential if the young guys are brought up and can perform similar to what they did in the minors. I think the offense will help us win the majority of our games. The pitchers will be underrated and have nice seasons. The minor leauge system is pretty deep in pitching and most of our young hitters have already figured out how to hit MLB pitching. This is not my biased way but I see good in this franchise. The potential and talent are here. Hopefully the managing can make the right calls.

Soxheads
09-21-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
The 2002 White Sox Season Review
By KeithFoulke2 (aka WillieHarris12)
Final Record: TBD

The White Sox started out the season 15-7 and most fans thought it was the year. Kenny Lofton hit .380 in April, a distant memory. Royce Clayton had 0 errors and Todd Ritchie had a 3.18 ERA into May. Somewhere around May 26, if I am correct, the White Sox hit a skid, then a slump, and then dropped off of the face of the earth. They played sub .500 baseball for 3 or more months and then they had a garage sale. Ray Durham was sold to the A's for minor league pitcher Jon Adkins. Kenny Lofton was told to continue his slumps elsewhere, in the bay area. Bob Howry was delt to the Red Sox for two minor leaguers and Sandy Alomar went to a hitters heaven, even though he was hitting about .290 when he had been traded. Finally 2 weeks ago, Royce Clayton was waived. So what went wrong? Well you could say pitching, but I say lack of leadership. Kenny Lofton was a good leader until he started to slump and throw tantrums. When Ray Durham doesn't play well, he talks to himself. Frank Thomas was hitting .230 and not showing up on time to games. Todd Ritchie has no relationship with anyone in the clubhouse and Royce Clayton was too busy claiming that he is "The best shortstop in Baseball". So Ken Williams decided to sell to the highest bidder and everyone who had some value was sold, for guys with potential, like D'Angelo Jimenez. Although not all was sold, you can't blame Williams because you couldn't sell Clayton or Ritchie on ebay. Then guys were called up. It started with Willie Harris, who homered his first night up. Then Jimenez who was hitting the cover off the ball. Joe Crede was inserted to the starting lineup and has hit 10 homers since he came up in late August. Joe Borchard, yet another outfielder, has hit 2 home runs in limited play. Including one in his first Major League game. Miguel Olivo (C) hit a home run in his first at bat in the majors and even threw out a runner, with time to spare. Jon Rauch has been recovering well after Tommy John surgery. Here's an In depth look at the 2003 season.

Grading the 2002 Team

Team
Offense: B+ First half team: C+. Second Half team: A. The young players looked great at the end of the season. The White Sox also hit 200+ HR again.
Pitching: C [i]Buehrle has proven himself. Wright and Garland seem to have potential, they should get another chance in '03. Biddle, Foulke, Marte, and Wunsch had nice years. Osuna was decent but not spectacular. And Ritchie and Glover were disasterous.

Individual
Catchers-
Mark Johnson- (F) He had less than 20 RBI's and hit .200 in about 200+ at bats.
Josh Paul- (C-) He had a 10-20 streak and then had a slump. He is hitting around .250.
Miguel Olivo- (B+)- Has done great things in limited time. We need to see if he is consistent.

1st Base-
Paul Konerko- (A-) Very nice stats for the 26 year old. Should help even more in 03.

2nd Base-
Willie Harris- (C-)- Is fast but is too inconsistent to play every day.
D'Angelo Jimenez (B-)- He can hit above .280 and shows promise to be an everyday 2B.
Tony Graffanino (C)- Was good to fill in for a couple of days, but he isn't a starter.
Short Stop-
Jose Valentin- (B)- Hit around 25 home runs again this season. He also drove in a good deal of runs.

3rd Base-
Joe Crede- (A-)- The kid showed star power with 10 homers, a .287 AVG, and about 30 RBI's in 171 AB's.

Outfield-
Magglio Ordonez (A)- The .300-30-100 man did it again.
Carlos Lee (B-)- Hit 25 home runs but didn't hit consistently. It hurt the team.
Aaron Rowand (C-)- In 278 ABs he hit .250 with 7 HRs and 28 RBIs.
Joe Borchard (B+)- Is 11-25 (.280) with 2 home runs and 5 RBI.

Pitchers-
Mark Buehrle (A)- Approached 20 wins and had an ERA in the mid 3's.
Jon Garland (C+)- ERA hovered in the 4.50's, he got his share of wins and showed brilliance. Pitched a CGSO too.
Dan Wright (C)- Recieved a nice amount of wins. Pitched a CGSO, but his ERA was near 5.30.
Rocky Biddle (C+)- Needs to be made into a starter but he showed some great potential in the second half. His ERA was in the 4.10's.
Todd Ritchie (D-)- ERA in the 6's is no excuse. Neither is 15 losses.
Damaso Marte (A)- He put his ERA under 3 and became one of the best LHP relievers in the game. He struck out 70+ in about 60 innings too.
Keith Foulke (A-)- Despite first half struggles, he pitched many scoreless innings in the second half to bring his ERA to 3.00.
Kelly Wunsch (B)- ERA in the 3.20's was nice to see after season ending surgery in 2001.
Antonio Osuna (B-)- In the AL an ERA in the low 4.00's isn't too bad. He also was 8-2.
Gary Glover (C-)- He gave up to many runs.
Mike Porzio (C)- He would be a great mopup, but I don't see why he is in the majors.
Matt Ginter (C)- He did a nice job pitching mopup this year. But we shouldn't need him if we have Porzio. It's one or the other.


[i]2003 Season Projections

Lineup

2B- D'Angelo Jimenez
SS- Jose Valentin
DH- Frank Thomas
RF- Magglio Ordonez
1B- Paul Konerko
3B- Joe Crede
LF- Carlos Lee
CF- Joe Borchard
C- Miguel Olivo

Bench
CF- Aaron Rowand
C- Josh Paul
IF- Tony Graffanino

Released, Traded or Demoted Players:
Released: Mark Johnson
Traded: Jeff Liefer

The White Sox have more than enough Catchers. They will probably get rid of Johnson or Paul. Paul might be more likely to be traded since Manuel is obsessed with Johnson's ability to "hit" lefty. The fans would probably for the most part like to see Paul as a backup because he can hit more often then Johnson and has better speed. The White Sox need to let go of an outfielder. Either Jeff Liefer or Carlos Lee will be traded. I would like to see Liefer go just because Lee has more experience. Lee is also younger. Aaron Rowand will likely remain a utility unless some team is interested in him.

Projected Stats

2B- D'Angelo Jimenez .283 8 HR 64 RBI
Will have a productive leadoff season. Should reach base almost every game.
SS- Jose Valentin .271 27 HR 82 RBI
He wants to be a contender, with the White Sox. It will show.
DH- Frank Thomas .316 31 HR 110 RBI
[i]The 2000 Thomas will be back, he is beggining to show his star power again.
RF- Magglio Ordonez .307 33 HR 117 RBI
Ordonez will get his 5th straight .300-30-100.
1B- Paul Konerko .290 30 HR 101 RBI
More home runs, less average.
3B- Joe Crede .289 29 HR 84 RBI
Has 10 MLB home runs and 25 minor league homers this season.
LF- Carlos Lee .269 25 HR 81 RBI
Might be streaky, but he will quietly hit 25 homers
CF- Joe Borchard .260 28 HR 79 RBI
Young, poweful, and a free swinger.
C- Miguel Olivo .292 16 HR 71 RBI
A young pudge, but somehow improved. The world has yet to see him.

This lineup will be supierior to almost any team in home runs. The chemistry looks good too. I think the pieces in the puzzle fit. Hopefully this lineup is kept. It could help the White Sox beat out the Twins for the AL Central title.

Rotation
1- Mark Buehrle
2- Jon Garland
3- Rocky Biddle
4- Dan Wright
5- Keith Foulke

Relievers
Jon Rauch
Damaso Marte
Edwin Almonte
Kelly Wunsch
Matt Ginter
Ken Vining
Felix Diaz
Gary Glover

I see Ritchie either being released or headed to the minors. He seems to be a huge bust next season. Rauch, Almonte (2.24 ERA, 26 saves at AAA), Vining (2.87 in 47 IP at AAA), and Diaz (3.48 ERA, 4-0 6 GS at AA) should have a good spring. They are going to get enough innings throughout the year, Ginter will be mopup and Glover and Vining will work MR. Diaz should be a spot starter and Marte or Almonte will close. Jon Adkins may make the team too. He had a 3.69 ERA at AAA Charlotte in 7 starts.

Projected Stats

Rotation
1- Mark Buehrle 21-8 3.28 ERA
Will have a better season than even last year
2- Jon Garland 14-9 4.05 ERA
Will start converting potential to talent.
3- Rocky Biddle 12-11 4.13 ERA
Will pitch 5 and 1/3 IP, but he will keep his team in the game.
4- Dan Wright 10-10 4.35 ERA
Like Garland, he will get the hang of things.
5- Keith Foulke 13-9 3.89 ERA
Could be great, he has the pitches to be dominant like Derek Lowe was.

Relievers
Jon Rauch 4-6 3.99 ERA
Damaso Marte 3-1 3.30 ERA 11 Saves
Edwin Almonte 2-4 3.05 ERA 8 Saves
Kelly Wunsch 5-1 3.77 ERA 1 Save
Matt Ginter 1-1 4.52 ERA
Ken Vining 3-4 4.12 ERA
Felix Diaz 5-0 3.91 ERA
Gary Glover 1-4 5.37 ERA

2003 All-Stars
RF- Magglio Ordonez
DH- Frank Thomas
SP- Mark Buehrle
3B- Joe Crede

Overall Record: 94-68 (1st in AL Central by 6.5 games.)

What I would like to see:
Young pitchers getting the call to the MLB at the start of the season.
The aquisition of at least one good veteran pitcher. Maybe Maddux. Atlanta may let him go. They might not have enough money. Although it is even more unlikely for him to go to the AL, and the White Sox on top of that.

This team has potential if the young guys are brought up and can perform similar to what they did in the minors. I think the offense will help us win the majority of our games. The pitchers will be underrated and have nice seasons. The minor leauge system is pretty deep in pitching and most of our young hitters have already figured out how to hit MLB pitching. This is not my biased way but I see good in this franchise. The potential and talent are here. Hopefully the managing can make the right calls.

I think the catcher grades are totally wrong, and I think your predictions are way too generous, but hey, who's here to criticize? :gulp:

WillieHarris12
09-21-2002, 06:49 PM
Hah, but next year it will all be true.

bc2k
09-21-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
The 2002 White Sox Season Review
By KeithFoulke2 (aka WillieHarris12)
Final Record: TBD


I noticed you didn't grade the DH.

doublem23
09-21-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
The White Sox have more than enough Catchers. They will probably get rid of Johnson or Paul. Paul might be more likely to be traded since Manuel is obsessed with Johnson's ability to "hit" lefty. The fans would probably for the most part like to see Paul as a backup because he can hit more often then Johnson and has better speed.

We don't need to start this argument again, do we?

RKMeibalane
09-21-2002, 07:33 PM
Say "no" to versitility.

bc2k
09-21-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
We don't need to start this argument again, do we?

Nah, but who do you think will be catching Buehrle tomorrow? Manuel had Johnson catch Buehrle last start, but do you think JM will let Olivo catch him tomorrow in hopes of giving Mark a better offensive team?

HawkDJ
09-21-2002, 07:53 PM
Uh..yes...well that was very long so I jsut went right to the ratings. I disagree with some of them. Individual
Catchers-
Mark Johnson- (D)
Josh Paul- (D+) Same as MJ but a wee bit faster
Miguel Olivo- (B+)-

1st Base-
Paul Konerko- (A-)

2nd Base-
Willie Harris- (C-)-
D'Angelo Jimenez (B-)-
Tony Graffanino (B+)- No, he's not a starter but we knew he wasn't. He is a great utility player though.

Short Stop-
Jose Valentin- (C)- Has really done nothing for this team besides delay progress of some of our young'ns. Good clutch numbers keep him at C

3rd Base-
Joe Crede- (A-)

Outfield-
Magglio Ordonez (A+)- Career highs in many categories including RBI, HR and possibly average
Carlos Lee (B-)-
Aaron Rowand (C-)
Joe Borchard (B+)

Pitchers-
Mark Buehrle (A)-
Jon Garland (B-) Showed flashes of brilliance
Dan Wright (C)-
Rocky Biddle (C+)-
Todd Ritchie (F)- Fails because we gave up 3 pitchers for him and he pitched terrible an for only about half the season
Damaso Marte (A-) Just because he can't have the same grade as Buehrle
Keith Foulke (B+)- Has done lately but doesn't make up for beginning
Kelly Wunsch (B)-
Antonio Osuna (B-)-
Gary Glover (C)-
Mike Porzio (C-)-
Matt Ginter (C)-

doublem23
09-21-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Nah, but who do you think will be catching Buehrle tomorrow? Manuel had Johnson catch Buehrle last start, but do you think JM will let Olivo catch him tomorrow in hopes of giving Mark a better offensive team?

I would hope Olivo gets a chance to catch Mark, so the two can get a chance to start getting used to each other. Buehrle is our staff ace, and Olivo is our catcher of the future. You assume they'll have to work together eventually.

LauraJ14
09-21-2002, 08:14 PM
Joe Borchard (B+)
Carlos Lee (B-)
Sorry but Carlos deserves a better grade than Borchard especially since Borchard has played in only 11 games and he strikes out too much!

Soxheads
09-21-2002, 08:54 PM
Paul Sucks!

Mark Johnson has been the better catcher, by far, of the two.

idseer
09-21-2002, 10:38 PM
Mark Johnson D
Paul Konerko B
Tony Graffanino C
Jose Valentin C
Magglio Ordonez A
Carlos Lee C
Aaron Rowand C

Mark Buehrle B
Jon Garland C
Dan Wright C
Rocky Biddle C
Todd Ritchie F
Damaso Marte B
Keith Foulke D
Antonio Osuna C
Gary Glover D

Lip Man 1
09-21-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Willie Harris:

2003 All-Stars
RF- Magglio Ordonez
DH- Frank Thomas
SP- Mark Buehrle
3B- Joe Crede

Overall Record: 94-68 (1st in AL Central by 6.5 games.)


I guess you were a Dusty Springfield fan eh? "Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin'..."

Here come the optimists again! The Sox play great when they are out of it (like in September 1998, 2001 and now) and everyone starts talking pennent. Let's get a quality #2 starter, let's see Garland and Wright actually win in double figures without losing in double figures, let's see the Sox get a solid catcher and a field manager who knows what the hell is going on, and then we can discuss it. Until then let's hold the champaign shall we? (Or didn't you learn anything from the last off season?) Talk is cheap...

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
09-21-2002, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
...The Sox play great when they are out of it (like in September 1998, 2001 and now) and everyone starts talking pennent. Let's get a quality #2 starter, let's see Garland and Wright actually win in double figures without losing in double figures....

Still, I LUV pounding lumps on Minnesota. I think beating a division rival decisively, no matter how meaningless the game, has a positive effect for the future. Certainly the Twins thought they proved something against our Sox taking the season series back in 2000. Head cases like Joe Mays practically made their reputation pretending they had something on our Sox.

Turnabout is fair game. Sweeping them would be the highlight of the second-half for me. Of course that ain't sayin' much...

:gulp:

DVG
09-22-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Until then let's hold the champaign

Lip


I agree. Let's hold off on the champaign, and the urbana, too.

WillieHarris12
09-22-2002, 01:11 PM
Give me a break. I am optimist because I am 15. I haven't lived through years of losing seasons, well maybe 10.

doublem23
09-22-2002, 01:42 PM
Don't mind Lip. He enjoys this.

Lip Man 1
09-22-2002, 02:43 PM
Double 23:

If you mean I enjoy losing you're dead wrong.

Willie needs to take a hard look at reality with this owner and this organization. I'm not saying don't enjoy the Sox, youth and baseball.

All I'm stating is to be honest about things...in other words we're not talking the Braves or Yankees organizations around here.

Besides it'll save him years of unfullfilled dreams if he understands right now what the future holds for the Sox. Answer: mediocrity until our owner has left the scene.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
09-22-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
...Besides it'll save him years of unfullfilled dreams if he understands right now what the future holds for the Sox. Answer: mediocrity until our owner has left the scene.



Yes, but it's so hard to get close enough to him to poison his food, what with after the last foiled attempt, right?

Here Jerry, drink this.
:gulp:

RichH55
09-22-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Paul Sucks!

Mark Johnson has been the better catcher, by far, of the two.


I dont care how bad Paul is...to say Mark Johnson is the better player than anyone is a stretch...now if we break it down into several subcatergories of being a baseball player well then maybe you have a point, but Johnson has been pretty much brutal for what he brings to the table....bring on Olivio

RichH55
09-22-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Don't mind Lip. He enjoys this.


I sometimes get that impression as well....He seems like the optimist who has had enough, and now everything is bleak no matter what....

WillieHarris12
09-22-2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
I dont care how bad Paul is...to say Mark Johnson is the better player than anyone is a stretch...now if we break it down into several subcatergories of being a baseball player well then maybe you have a point, but Johnson has been pretty much brutal for what he brings to the table....bring on Olivio

Yeah, I don't know how anyone could even like Mark Johnson, I just hate see'n him play.

doublem23
09-22-2002, 09:11 PM
Catching is a DEFENSIVE position. This (and this alone) is why Mark Johnson is head-and-shoulders above Josh Paul.

That said, Johnson isn't much himself, but why don't you just stick a stop sign behind the plate instead of Paul 'cuz it'll do just as much behind the plate.

:versatile
Defense? Baseball's all about versatility now!

DVG
09-22-2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Double 23:

Besides it'll save him years of unfullfilled dreams if he understands right now what the future holds for the Sox. Answer: mediocrity until our owner has left the scene.

Lip

Hm. "mediocrity until our owner leaves the scene?" Yeah. That's
what I said when the last two owners left the scene. And when
he does leave the scene, he'll be replaced by...what? Don't let
your obsessive hatred for Reinsdorf blind you. The next owner
may turn out to be no better. He may turn out worse. So be
careful what you wish for...

Lip Man 1
09-23-2002, 12:18 AM
After 22 years of Uncle Jerry I'll take my chances. At least with a new owner things MIGHT be different.

As long as Uncle Jerry is pulling the strings you know NOTHING is ever going to change. If he wouldn't change at 50, and he didn't change at 60, he's NOT going to change when he hits 70.

Lip

DVG
09-23-2002, 01:17 AM
Well, maybe one of those magical, mystical, once-in-a-lifetime
seasons will occur and the White Sox will win the World Series
in spite of the way Reinsdorf runs the team. Possible, no? I
expect it to happen at roughly the same time that I begin a
steamy affair with Kate Winslet.

longshot7
09-23-2002, 02:21 AM
hey, what's wrong with Ray talking to himself? I do it....


my only other criticism - in your 03 starting lineup, you've completely ignored that Kenny will probably swing a few trades - at least one more starting pitcher. and Borchard and Olivo are not ready yet.

and next year's projected stats: you ever hear of putting the cart before the horse?

RichH55
09-23-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
After 22 years of Uncle Jerry I'll take my chances. At least with a new owner things MIGHT be different.

As long as Uncle Jerry is pulling the strings you know NOTHING is ever going to change. If he wouldn't change at 50, and he didn't change at 60, he's NOT going to change when he hits 70.

Lip


How do you explain the Belle and Navarro signings or even Thomas at the time....? The fact that they didnt work out, doesnt mean that big money wasnt spent