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View Full Version : *Official* 6/26/19 Chris Sale is a Bum Postgamer


DumpJerry
06-26-2019, 03:45 PM
Good thing this series is over.

We can't lose any more guys to the IL.

Nice to go home on a winning note.

kingpin_rcs
06-26-2019, 03:47 PM
Awesome at-bat by Jose Abreu!

harwar
06-26-2019, 03:48 PM
One thing is for sure, the games this year are not boring . what a game . Jose Abreu comes through once again with a BOMB that left the park!!

DumpJerry
06-26-2019, 03:52 PM
Last night I was talking with a friend about today's matchup. He did not like it. I told him Coop would stand on the top step of the Dugout when Sale was on the Mound and yell "throwback jerseys!" "anyone seen the scissors around here?" etc. to get in Sale's head.

Mohoney
06-26-2019, 03:56 PM
Bump up that trade value, Josť!

voodoochile
06-26-2019, 03:56 PM
Awesome at-bat by Jose Abreu!

Yes it was and here it is...


1 Ball Curve 87
2 Strike Swinging Four-seam FB 97
3 Foul Ball Four-seam FB 97
4 Foul Ball Four-seam FB 96
5 Foul Ball Curve 86
6 Ball Curve 87
7 Foul Ball Four-seam FB 98
8 Foul Ball Curve 86
9 Foul Ball Four-seam FB 97
10 Home Run Four-seam FB 96

TDog
06-26-2019, 04:29 PM
One thing is for sure, the games this year are not boring . what a game . Jose Abreu comes through once again with a BOMB that left the park!!

Tuesday night's game was a throwaway snooze fest, but today was made a lot more fun in the ninth. I sort of got the feeling Abreu was channeling Frank Thomas in the ninth, Thomas having hit something like 16 Fenway home runs with the White Sox, with at least a couple of memorable ones working deep in the count. Abreu doubled in the first run and singled in the sixth run so he ended up with half the RBIs, which some of us believe is a big deal.

Lopez actual outpitched Sale, although the giveway run in the third (Lopez wild pitch set up by a McCann throwing error) appeared to loom large after Bogaerts singled in the tying and go-ahead runs in the bottom of the eighth. Obviously it wasn't the same Sale who pitched six shutout innings while striking out 10 in Chicago in May.

The two on the solo home run and two-out single after the sacrifice kept the pressure on the Red Sox who kept enough pressure on White Sox pitchers throughout the series. The sacrifice after the leadoff double might have frustrated some, but that run should have given the Sox enough.

Bummer gave up a run, which he doesn't often do, but what hurt out of the bullpen was Marshall. On this roadtrip, he appears to have reached his expiration date. In his first appearance in Texas, he struck out the only batter he faced. Since, he has faced 8 hitters, striking out one (a big strike out with the bases loaded to be sure) walked one and given up five singles and a home run. He was charged with the loss in the game in Texas where he couldn't get anyone out and he would have charged with today's loss had the Sox not come back in the ninth. Colome came in to get the tough save, was charged with a blown save but got the win after protecting his lead.

I like the guts Renteria showed bringing Colome into a tough-save situation in the eighth. It appeared to me, and apparently to Renteria, that it was the only way the Sox were going to win this game. As it turned out, Colome, who probably deserved a better line with the non-out fielder's choice, didn't hold the Red Sox, but limited the damage to give Abreu that chance to be the hero.

thomas35forever
06-26-2019, 05:14 PM
Nearly gave it away, but glad Jose was able to take it back. He better be an All-Star this year.

fungo bat
06-26-2019, 05:22 PM
The Sox did everything in their power to throw away the game today.

And then Jose Abreu came to the rescue in the top of the ninth and saved them from a disaster.

I know they will probably move him before the trade deadline but ...

Don't the Sox desperately need to keep a guy like this for several intangible reasons including leadership, calm and steady in the face of the opposition and a great example of how to play the game and act properly away from the game. He's been a stellar performer from day one. And I can't recall him ever complaining or acting out of line. I realize his career path is probably close if not already on the downturn, but still ...

voodoochile
06-26-2019, 05:24 PM
The Sox did everything in their power to throw away the game today.

And then Jose Abreu came to the rescue in the top of the ninth and saved them from a disaster.

I know they will probably move him before the trade deadline but ...

Don't the Sox desperately need to keep a guy like this for several intangible reasons including leadership, calm and steady in the face of the opposition and a great example of how to play the game and act properly away from the game. He's been a stellar performer from day one. And I can't recall him ever complaining or acting out of line. I realize his career path is probably close if not already on the downturn, but still ...

The idea is they can always bring him back. He'll be a FA again in November.

Mohoney
06-26-2019, 05:35 PM
The Sox did everything in their power to throw away the game today.

And then Jose Abreu came to the rescue in the top of the ninth and saved them from a disaster.

I know they will probably move him before the trade deadline but ...

Don't the Sox desperately need to keep a guy like this for several intangible reasons including leadership, calm and steady in the face of the opposition and a great example of how to play the game and act properly away from the game. He's been a stellar performer from day one. And I can't recall him ever complaining or acting out of line. I realize his career path is probably close if not already on the downturn, but still ...
In short, no. Two months of all that other stuff is not worth Rick Hahn sitting on his hands at the trade deadline while an opportunity to improve this teamís future goes by the wayside. Teams with no chance at the postseason trade players who will enter free agency at seasonís end. Itís pretty much just standard operating procedure.

TomBradley72
06-26-2019, 05:53 PM
The idea is they can always bring him back. He'll be a FA again in November.

Which means pretty limited value for a 2 month Abreu rental- not much coming back for him- I say keep him.

Mohoney
06-26-2019, 06:03 PM
Which means pretty limited value for a 2 month Abreu rental- not much coming back for him- I say keep him.

Which also means itís completely risk-free to deal him, because come November, you have the exact same bargaining position anyway, but you have made sure to get some sort of return if you lose him in free agency.

I have no idea where the idea that Abreu is automatically staying put in 2020 if we keep him in 2019 started, but it really needs to be put out of peopleís minds. On the flip side, Abreu is not automatically gone in 2020 if he is traded in 2019. With regards to where Abreu plays in 2020 and beyond, the team is in the exact same position whether Abreu is traded or kept: a suitor in free agency.

voodoochile
06-26-2019, 06:06 PM
Which means pretty limited value for a 2 month Abreu rental- not much coming back for him- I say keep him.

Combine him with someone else and see what you are offered. Assuming you get no return so you don't try means you guarantee no return.

voodoochile
06-26-2019, 06:10 PM
Which also means itís completely risk-free to deal him, because come November, you have the exact same bargaining position anyway, but you have made sure to get some sort of return if you lose him in free agency.

I have no idea where the idea that Abreu is automatically staying put in 2020 if we keep him in 2019 started, but it really needs to be put out of peopleís minds. On the flip side, Abreu is not automatically gone in 2020 if he is traded in 2019. With regards to where Abreu plays in 2020 and beyond, the team is in the exact same position whether Abreu is traded or kept: a suitor in free agency.

If Abreu is settled in Chicago with a home the Sox may well have the inside track come this fall regardless. He can rent a place for the next two months or stay at a hotel.

Mohoney
06-26-2019, 06:18 PM
If Abreu is settled in Chicago with a home the Sox may well have the inside track come this fall regardless. He can rent a place for the next two months or stay at a hotel.
Plus he would return with ďpostseason experience!Ē

slavko
06-26-2019, 06:44 PM
If what you get for Abreu can't help you until 2022, who cares?

Heffalump
06-26-2019, 06:50 PM
I don't care about any fringe prospects. It is not worth it and would just be the Sox garbage picking again and hoping to get lucky. If you can get a real prospect for him (or in a package), do it and then resign him.

Mohoney
06-26-2019, 07:06 PM
I don't care about any fringe prospects. It is not worth it and would just be the Sox garbage picking again and hoping to get lucky. If you can get a real prospect for him (or in a package), do it and then resign him.
The cut-off is pretty easy. Can we acquire a player who is worth more (or who is closer to being a contributor in the majors) than the 70-ish overall pick we would get if Abreu declined a qualifying offer and went elsewhere? If so, then make the trade. If not, then go the qualifying offer route.

Tragg
06-26-2019, 07:45 PM
In short, no. Two months of all that other stuff is not worth Rick Hahn sitting on his hands at the trade deadline while an opportunity to improve this teamís future goes by the wayside. Teams with no chance at the postseason trade players who will enter free agency at seasonís end. Itís pretty much just standard operating procedure.
Yep. Should be.
But we'll see.

XplodingScorbord
06-26-2019, 09:02 PM
The cut-off is pretty easy. Can we acquire a player who is worth more (or who is closer to being a contributor in the majors) than the 70-ish overall pick we would get if Abreu declined a qualifying offer and went elsewhere? If so, then make the trade. If not, then go the qualifying offer route.

And Rick Hahn knows this and will act accordingly.

Railsplitter
06-26-2019, 09:46 PM
The right color Sox win! :bandance:

Tragg
06-26-2019, 10:45 PM
The bottom of the 8th inning reminded me of that crap that used to happen in the Twinkie Dome...ground balls, bloops - a bunch of rinky-dink junk. Sox deserved win. Really if Sox had just a little more oomph they could have swept this series.

Brian26
06-26-2019, 10:58 PM
Keep Abreu in a Sox uniform.

TDog
06-26-2019, 11:05 PM
The bottom of the 8th inning reminded me of that crap that used to happen in the Twinkie Dome...ground balls, bloops - a bunch of rinky-dink junk. Sox deserved win. Really if Sox had just a little more oomph they could have swept this series.


Not striking out ... what a concept? The White Sox were close to being swept. They pretty much conceded the second game and fell apart at key moments in the first and third games. I guess if they had a better rotation, a better bullpen, defenders who could make the plays and a better lineup, they could have swept the series.

And when this team wins an exciting game, the hot postgame topic is how much the game's hero can bring in trade.

ChiTownTrojan
06-26-2019, 11:35 PM
The cut-off is pretty easy. Can we acquire a player who is worth more (or who is closer to being a contributor in the majors) than the 70-ish overall pick we would get if Abreu declined a qualifying offer and went elsewhere? If so, then make the trade. If not, then go the qualifying offer route.

I forgot about the draft pick compensation. Three questions:

1. If the Sox traded him, and whoever they traded him to made a qualifying offer, would the Sox have to give up a pick to sign him? I think that this doesn't apply when a player was traded mid-season, but I'm not sure how it works.
2. Approximately what would the qualifying offer be valued at?
3. Would Abreu even be worth the qualifying offer? I feel like the market for veteran, slightly declining 1B has been so depressed the past couple years that if he were on the open market, there's no way any team would offer him whatever the qualifying offer comes to.

MISoxfan
06-27-2019, 12:44 AM
If what you get for Abreu can't help you until 2022, who cares?

I might care in 2022.

Mohoney
06-27-2019, 12:51 AM
I forgot about the draft pick compensation. Three questions:

1. If the Sox traded him, and whoever they traded him to made a qualifying offer, would the Sox have to give up a pick to sign him? I think that this doesn't apply when a player was traded mid-season, but I'm not sure how it works.
2. Approximately what would the qualifying offer be valued at?
3. Would Abreu even be worth the qualifying offer? I feel like the market for veteran, slightly declining 1B has been so depressed the past couple years that if he were on the open market, there's no way any team would offer him whatever the qualifying offer comes to.
1) That is correct. Traded players are not eligible to receive qualifying offers. Only players who have been with one team for the entire season are eligible to receive qualifying offers.

2) It would be one year, with the salary being the average of the top 125 player salaries. Last offseason, it was $17.9 million.

3) Honestly, the team may actually be hoping that Abreu just accepts the qualifying offer. You’re correct that the past few offseasons have been awful for corner OF/1B/DH bats. I think the lack of suitors that you describe would indeed steer Abreu back to the White Sox, either by accepting the qualifying offer or signing a two-year or three-year deal.

Tragg
06-27-2019, 08:44 AM
The cut-off is pretty easy. Can we acquire a player who is worth more (or who is closer to being a contributor in the majors) than the 70-ish overall pick we would get if Abreu declined a qualifying offer and went elsewhere? If so, then make the trade. If not, then go the qualifying offer route.

That assumes the Sox give him a qualifying offer, he declines it and someone signs him before June. I think odds of each of those 3 steps is below 50%.
That is I think it's more likely than not that a)He does not get a QO; b)if he does, he takes it; c)if he doesn't take it, he signs in June.

Now, if someone wants to sign him earlier and give lose the pick, then that suggests that his July value should be decent. It's hard to gauge what his value his. His numbers aren't great this year and he's stopped walking. (.299 OBP, e.g.)

TomBradley72
06-27-2019, 09:33 AM
Combine him with someone else and see what you are offered. Assuming you get no return so you don't try means you guarantee no return.

Of course you listen- I just think this entire debate (speculating) is kind of pointless- I just don't see a significant market for 2 months of control of a 1B/DH- so it's much ado about nothing.

Unless the return can help us in 2020/21- I don't really care.

ChiTownTrojan
06-27-2019, 10:28 AM
1) That is correct. Traded players are not eligible to receive qualifying offers. Only players who have been with one team for the entire season are eligible to receive qualifying offers.

2) It would be one year, with the salary being the average of the top 125 player salaries. Last offseason, it was $17.9 million.

3) Honestly, the team may actually be hoping that Abreu just accepts the qualifying offer. Youíre correct that the past few offseasons have been awful for corner OF/1B/DH bats. I think the lack of suitors that you describe would indeed steer Abreu back to the White Sox, either by accepting the qualifying offer or signing a two-year or three-year deal.

There's no way any team would give Abreu $17.9 million on the open market. Why should the Sox? They're more likely to try to sign him to a cheaper 2-year deal, with the idea that he'll move to DH once Vaughn is ready.

Mohoney
06-27-2019, 12:52 PM
There's no way any team would give Abreu $17.9 million on the open market. Why should the Sox? They're more likely to try to sign him to a cheaper 2-year deal, with the idea that he'll move to DH once Vaughn is ready.
Which would be much easier to do after slapping a qualifying offer on him, because other potential suitors would avoid him like the plague once a draft pick is attached.

The White Sox may prefer to do one year at $18 million than 2 years at $25-$30 million, and I can see the logic behind it. Abreu already makes $16 million, and the payroll committed to 2020 is minuscule, so the money should not be a problem. The issue is committing payroll to Abreu in 2021. If his performance declines even further in 2020, he may not even be worth bringing back in 2021. This gives the team a chance to assess again after 2020 and decide what they want to do.