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View Full Version : *Official* 5/23/19 COMPLETE GAME GIO STRIKES AGAIN!! Postgamer


voodoochile
05-23-2019, 09:56 PM
That was damned fun. Could have scored a LOT more runs, but Gio was simply on fire and he didn't even need 3 of the ones he got. Amazing performance against a heck of a team.

Gotta love Eloy crushing homers and slinging leather in LF. His reaction when he trapped the dipping liner with his elbow and chest for the final out in the 8th after sliding in for the catch was awesome.

Wherever they finish this season, this Sox team is having fun and can be a lot of fun to watch.

2-2 on the road in Houston with the bullpen pitching one of the two games? We take that one.

Back to 2-games under. Can they break through against the Twinkies? Someone cue JB...

:soxwin:

:)

Tragg
05-23-2019, 09:57 PM
Just when I thought they were out...they pull me back in.

Sox finally have a top pitcher. Beautiful.
Maybe this is a turning point. The team deserves it.

Railsplitter
05-23-2019, 09:57 PM
:bandance::bandance:

Admit it: nobody expected a split in this series.

voodoochile
05-23-2019, 09:59 PM
:bandance::bandance:

Admit it: nobody expected a split in this series.

I did after game 3...:cool:

cbone
05-23-2019, 09:59 PM
Holy crap! How good can Giolito be? Eloy with another jack. Man this is fun!

Mohoney
05-23-2019, 10:00 PM
Giolitoís ERA is now down to 2.77 on the season.

Flight #24
05-23-2019, 10:02 PM
Giolito had 2 rough starts in April with a combined 9.1IP, 9ER, 12H, 8BB, 10K.

His other 7 are 41.2IP, 7ER, 24H, 11BB, 48K. That's good for a 0.84 WHIP, a 1.51ERA, and a 4.36 K:BB, and it includes his last 6 starts.

Which is a lot of saying he's been excellent, but in the last 6 - dominant.

ChiSoxNationPres
05-23-2019, 10:05 PM
Giolito threw 82 of 107 for strikes!

ChiTownTrojan
05-23-2019, 10:05 PM
Splitting this series on the road against arguably the best team in the league is damn impressive, especially considering they didn't have a realistic shot in the first two games based on the pitching matchups. We were wondering if Giolito's recent stretch was for real or if he was just feasting on bad offenses, well this seems to put that worry to rest.

LoveYourSuit
05-23-2019, 10:06 PM
That's elite #1 stuff happening right there.

We so needed this.

JermaineDye05
05-23-2019, 10:07 PM
That is really damn impressive what Giolito did tonight. Giolito is this team’s ace. I’d probably take him over a healthy Rodon right now.

Alonso needs to be DFA’d by tomorrow morning.

A. Cavatica
05-23-2019, 10:23 PM
Maybe there IS such a thing as a pitching prospect, after all.

It was a very good two days for the rebuild. Tilson - the first piece acquired if you start counting from the Duke trade - with the grand slam. Jimenez hitting three home runs. Giolito pitching a game that's probably better than Quintana's best, and up there with Sale's. Glorious infield defense from Moncada, Anderson and Sanchez.

This team is going to end up a lot closer to .500 than most of us predicted and there are more future stars on the way.

kittle42
05-23-2019, 10:26 PM
That was nice to see from Giolito. Lovely.

guillensdisciple
05-23-2019, 10:27 PM
Alright, so, I am really close go saying turning point.

Call up Cease, sign Keuchel or trade for a third or second starter, and call up Robert in August if we are still close.


There's an outside shot and we have the pieces to turn this from a low 70 win team to an 80 win team and a possible wild-card team.

Finally, take second in the division.

insp
05-23-2019, 10:29 PM
That is really damn impressive what Giolito did tonight. Giolito is this teamís ace. Iíd probably take him over a healthy Rodon right now.

Alonso needs to be DFAíd by tomorrow morning.

Why DFA him?

Why not trade him for prospect(s)

Brian26
05-23-2019, 10:30 PM
Astros with six losses at home on the season. 33.3% of those are at the hands of the White Sox.

JermaineDye05
05-23-2019, 10:32 PM
Why DFA him?

Why not trade him for prospect(s)

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3X5C68GcAnI7m/giphy.gif?cid=8fc3c8975ce7658d2f6f653541e04321&rid=giphy.gif

kittle42
05-23-2019, 10:33 PM
Alright, so, I am really close go saying turning point.

Call up Cease, sign Keuchel or trade for a third or second starter, and call up Robert in August if we are still close.


There's an outside shot and we have the pieces to turn this from a low 70 win team to an 80 win team and a possible wild-card team.

Finally, take second in the division.

You are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Itís been a nice few games here, and some awesome displays from what better be the core. But come on.

kittle42
05-23-2019, 10:34 PM
Why DFA him?

Why not trade him for prospect(s)

None of the other 29 teams are trading for Alonso.

guillensdisciple
05-23-2019, 10:37 PM
You are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Itís been a nice few games here, and some awesome displays from what better be the core. But come on.

I'm not. Turning point for me is close to .500 or a team with mid 70's wins.

FielderJones
05-23-2019, 10:50 PM
This was really a fun game to watch. I was so glad Ricky went old school and allowed Lucas to finish what he started. This is a completely different pitcher from what we saw last year and in April.



My guess would be that Buehrle was the last Sox pitcher to throw consecutive complete games.

XplodingScorbord
05-23-2019, 10:56 PM
Having once again been lucky enough to have been there in person, I can report that for the second day in a row, the White Sox did not take batting practice. Make of that what you will. Infielders did drills once again. Iím liking what I see from this team. Gio was masterful.

voodoochile
05-23-2019, 10:57 PM
Just wanted to add one point. To finish this game, Gio retired the 3-4-5 hitters in the Astros lineup and over the final two innings he faced 4 batters with OPS well above .900, one well above 800 and Guriel who is batting 5th even though his OPS is low 700 this year.

The strikeout on Correa for the second out was a damned nice piece of pitching. That slider is ****ing nasty.

Tragg
05-23-2019, 11:03 PM
Why DFA him?

Why not trade him for prospect(s)

No team would trade a prospect for Yonder Alonso.

guillensdisciple
05-23-2019, 11:06 PM
Just wanted to add one point. To finish this game, Gio retired the 3-4-5 hitters in the Astros lineup and over the final two innings he faced 4 batters with OPS well above .900, one well above 800 and Guriel who is batting 5th even though his OPS is low 700 this year.

The strikeout on Correa for the second out was a damned nice piece of pitching. That slider is ****ing nasty.

What's great about this start is he changed his approach in the SECOND inning. The Astros clearly read his change up and fastball splits and he picked up on their readiness for the change up.

He then went fastball slider and dominated the game.

LoveYourSuit
05-23-2019, 11:10 PM
No team would trade a prospect for Yonder Alonso.

The Sox did :tongue: :duck:

Tragg
05-23-2019, 11:11 PM
You are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Itís been a nice few games here, and some awesome displays from what better be the core. But come on.

I think they'll be watchable all season; that's progress.

And no, the Sox don't need to trade for a starting pitcher. I have no interest in setting this slow rebuild back further.

LoveYourSuit
05-23-2019, 11:13 PM
You are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. It’s been a nice few games here, and some awesome displays from what better be the core. But come on.

I have no problem with some folks being optimistic and dreaming at this point. Why not.

If not for the crippling injuries, this team would probably be sitting on the other side of .500 right now as was expected to happen in 2019 (now) when this rebuild got started.


Have fun Sox fans, we are allowed to. :)

ChiSoxNationPres
05-23-2019, 11:19 PM
What's great about this start is he changed his approach in the SECOND inning. The Astros clearly read his change up and fastball splits and he picked up on their readiness for the change up.

He then went fastball slider and dominated the game.

I think it was more out of necessity, as his change in the first 3 or so innings didn't have the same sinking action it's had in previous starts. Makes this performance all the more impressive.

voodoochile
05-23-2019, 11:27 PM
You are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Itís been a nice few games here, and some awesome displays from what better be the core. But come on.

Why?!?!?!

Eloy looks like he might be a game changing bat and the bullpen is drastically improved. Cease is due up fairly soon. This team might well finish above 75 wins as is.

Mohoney
05-23-2019, 11:34 PM
Why?!?!?!

Eloy looks like he might be a game changing bat and the bullpen is drastically improved. Cease is due up fairly soon. This team might well finish above 75 wins as is.

You still have Ivan Nova, Dylan Covey, and Tewby Determined comprising 60% of your rotation. You still have OPS sinkholes scattered in the lineup.

voodoochile
05-23-2019, 11:47 PM
You still have Ivan Nova, Dylan Covey, and Tewby Determined comprising 60% of your rotation. You still have OPS sinkholes scattered in the lineup.

And nothing about that says 75 wins is out of the question. Covey and Nova can win 40% of their starts if the offense comes through and again, the addition of Eloy has the chance to take this offense up a notch.

Worst OPS in the lineup at present is Sanchez and he's in the .650 range and playing stunning defense at 2B recently. Tilson and Leury look to be guys who will be around .700.

Expect Yonder to rebound somewhat, where that leads him IDK, but he has to get better simply based on his BABIP currently being below .200. That won't continue and if it does they can bring up Collins and see where it takes them.

Cease is coming too.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2019, 12:01 AM
You still have Ivan Nova, Dylan Covey, and Tewby Determined comprising 60% of your rotation. You still have OPS sinkholes scattered in the lineup.

With all that, they are still only -3 under .500.

TDog
05-24-2019, 01:13 AM
That is really damn impressive what Giolito did tonight. Giolito is this teamís ace. Iíd probably take him over a healthy Rodon right now.

Alonso needs to be DFAíd by tomorrow morning.


I know some will consider this picky, but since the Braves designated Jerry Blevins for assignment earlier this month, he has appeared in at least two games for the Braves.If you believe a player should be released, it would be more precise to suggest he should be released.


As for Giolito, it looks like he may have found it. He has improved so much since coming to the White Sox. He always seemed to have confidence, at least the presence needed to pitch in the majors. Now he has the command to back it up. Hopefully he can stay healthy and maintain this level this season and for awhile.


I was only able to catch the last couple innings after returning home this afternoon, but I happy to see him come out for the ninth. When you have great starting pitching, it really doesn't matter who you're facing. Had Giilito gone up against Verlander, the game might have been decided by (dreaded by some) small ball.


Seeing Reddick in the lineup for the Astros reminded me of the promotion the A's used to do around him before he was traded (because the mentality of the A's is to trade your best players for prospects and trade them when they become good for other prospects). I didn't get to see or hear any to the games this week, but when he was with the A's, Reddick used to have Wham!'s Careless Whisper play when he came to the plate. At the BART station at ballpark, there was a billboard-sized ad on a wall promoting Reddick as "Careless Whisper". Now Reddick is one of those players that reminds me that deep down I miss the reserve clause.

thomas35forever
05-24-2019, 01:35 AM
Giolito finally is the guy we hoped he could be, Eloy is swinging for power, and the results speak for themselves. I can see a nice run in June if this keeps up.

Frater Perdurabo
05-24-2019, 05:46 AM
Expect Yonder to rebound somewhat, where that leads him IDK, but he has to get better simply based on his BABIP currently being below .200. That won't continue and if it does they can bring up Collins and see where it takes them.

I too am liking a lot about the Sox right now, as itís clear the players acquired in their ďrebuild tradesĒ are leading the charge. Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Eloy, and Cease all are playing well, and thereís certainly plenty of time for Kopech and Dunning to contribute once they are fully rehabilitated. When Rodon returns, we may only need him to be a #5. Robert looks very promising, too, and Anderson and McCann are providing veteran leadership and strong contributions. Finally, Collins and Madrigal may not be superstars, but I think they will be solid contributors. And I think thereís enough solid defensive corner OF and relief pitching prospect depth that weíll be able to fill RF and the bullpen internally if necessary.

So thereís plenty for the optimists to enjoy right now.

One thing Iím not optimistic on is Yonder Alonso. As Jim Margalus pointed out, and I paraphrase, although his BABIP is low, heís not a good candidate for ďprogression to the meanĒ in BABIP. Specifically, he hits left handed and he pulls the ball, so teams will continue shifting on him, and heís not a fast runner. He may run into an occasional HR, but at this point I think heís sunk cost.

If the Sox are committed to Eloy in LF, and if they want to extend Abreu (which is probably a good idea), and if they feel like you need to have a player on the team who can back up Abreu at 1B occasionally, then I think (as I posted in another thread) that the Sox should DFA Alonso and call up Collins. I think this would be better for the Sox (I think Collins right now is a better hitter than Alonso; even if his average is the same, heíll walk as much but hit for more power than Alonso) AND for Collinsí development (since heíll get to learn from McCann. For now, Castillo still has a place on the roster as Lopezís personal catcher.

Chez
05-24-2019, 05:55 AM
Anyone still think Eloy should be in Charlotte working on his defense? Anyone? Buehler?

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 07:50 AM
I know some will consider this picky, but since the Braves designated Jerry Blevins for assignment earlier this month, he has appeared in at least two games for the Braves.If you believe a player should be released, it would be more precise to suggest he should be released.


Is there any advantage to releasing a player as opposed to DFAing him? If he's willing to accept the assignment to AAA (unlikely), what's the harm in keeping him around in case he ends up figuring something out down there, or he's needed in Chicago due to injury?

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 07:52 AM
Giolito finally is the guy we hoped he could be, Eloy is swinging for power, and the results speak for themselves. I can see a nice run in June if this keeps up.

This version of Giolito is better than the guy I hoped he would be.

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 08:00 AM
Alright, so, I am really close go saying turning point.

Call up Cease, sign Keuchel or trade for a third or second starter, and call up Robert in August if we are still close.


There's an outside shot and we have the pieces to turn this from a low 70 win team to an 80 win team and a possible wild-card team.

Finally, take second in the division.

I would be totally on board with this plan, except that I worry that Keuchel is trending the wrong direction. But we definitely need another SP not only for this year but for next year as well. Latest rumor I read is that he'd be willing to accept a deal around $18 million for this year (pro-rated, I presume), or a multi-year deal with a lower AAV.

Tragg
05-24-2019, 08:48 AM
Why?!?!?!

Eloy looks like he might be a game changing bat and the bullpen is drastically improved. Cease is due up fairly soon. This team might well finish above 75 wins as is.
75 wins is a decent hope; 81 wins would be realistic if this pitching staff were at least sound. The bullpen is better...most of those guys will probably pitch an inning without giving up a run. But is there really anyone in there you trust to come in come in with 2 on and 1 out and get of the jam? Bummer maybe. Jace could last year, but not this year. They need 2-3 of those guys.

Maybe the Sox could use 2 sets of relief pitchers as starters and throw them 3 innings each; Covey could probably use some help. They could be used in the pen sparingly between starts, with at least 2 days off before and after being used as starters

voodoochile
05-24-2019, 09:05 AM
75 wins is a decent hope; 81 wins would be realistic if this pitching staff were at least sound. The bullpen is better...most of those guys will probably pitch an inning without giving up a run. But is there really anyone in there you trust to come in come in with 2 on and 1 out and get of the jam? Bummer maybe. Jace could last year, but not this year. They need 2-3 of those guys.

Maybe the Sox could use 2 sets of relief pitchers as starters and throw them 3 innings each; Covey could probably use some help. They could be used in the pen sparingly between starts, with at least 2 days off before and after being used as starters

I agree it's not a perfect situation, but it's hardly a disaster. 75 wins or higher is a reasonable outcome as the team is currently constructed. They proved these last two games they can play with the best teams in baseball on a given night. They are growing not just in comfort and ability but in confidence too.

I'm happy we're playing the Twinkies this weekend because the Sox are feeling good about themselves and on an emotional and mental roll at the moment.

hoosiersoxfan
05-24-2019, 09:23 AM
I was on a flight last night and luckily enough the flight had free Directv and the Sox were on MLB Network. It was very interesting listening to the Houston broadcast. The Astros announcers could not stop complimenting Giolito and his turnaround from last year. Overall they were very impressed with all the Sox young players that are key to the rebuild.

As far as Giolito goes he had 3 innings where every pitch he threw was a strike :o:. It's amazing how last year Lucas couldn't find the strike zone and this season he has great control. Credit to him and to Don Cooper or whoever it was that helped make the adjustments this season.

Hitmen77
05-24-2019, 09:38 AM
I think they'll be watchable all season; that's progress.

And no, the Sox don't need to trade for a starting pitcher. I have no interest in setting this slow rebuild back further.

Agreed on both points. Yeah, many of the games that Giolito and Lopez aren't starting will be frustrating to watch, but we're seeing tangible progress. I can't wait for next April when the top 4 in our rotation will be Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, and Cease.

...and yes, no thank you to trading for a starting pitcher.

veeter
05-24-2019, 09:39 AM
2018: 16-33
2019: 23-26

Nice

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 09:49 AM
Agreed on both points. Yeah, many of the games that Giolito and Lopez aren't starting will be frustrating to watch, but we're seeing tangible progress. I can't wait for next April when the top 4 in our rotation will be Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, and Cease.

...and yes, no thank you to trading for a starting pitcher.

Agreed on trading for a pitcher, but I want (and expect) them to sign a mid-rotation guy - someone better than the "filler" they've been throwing out at the back of the rotation for the past couple years.

Maximo
05-24-2019, 09:50 AM
I was on a flight last night and luckily enough the flight had free Directv and the Sox were on MLB Network. It was very interesting listening to the Houston broadcast. The Astros announcers could not stop complimenting Giolito and his turnaround from last year. Overall they were very impressed with all the Sox young players that are key to the rebuild.

As far as Giolito goes he had 3 innings where every pitch he threw was a strike :o:. It's amazing how last year Lucas couldn't find the strike zone and this season he has great control. Credit to him and to Don Cooper or whoever it was that helped make the adjustments this season.

Giolito credits his former high school pitching coach who is currently working for the SF Giants. Whoever contributed to his recent success, it's obvious we now have an "Ace".

TomBradley72
05-24-2019, 09:58 AM
No team would trade a prospect for Yonder Alonso.

He probably won't even have any takers signing him at the major league minimum if/when he's DFA'd

TomBradley72
05-24-2019, 09:59 AM
The Sox did :tongue: :duck:

Alex Call is not a prospect!

voodoochile
05-24-2019, 10:11 AM
Agreed on both points. Yeah, many of the games that Giolito and Lopez aren't starting will be frustrating to watch, but we're seeing tangible progress. I can't wait for next April when the top 4 in our rotation will be Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, and Cease.

...and yes, no thank you to trading for a starting pitcher.

Depends on what we have to trade right? Some minor league depth and an AAAA pitcher might bring back #4.

Joel Booker, Carson Fulmer and pick one between Spencer, Adams and Guerrero might grab a middling starter toward the end of his contract.

LoveYourSuit
05-24-2019, 10:17 AM
Alex Call is not a prospect!

1) it was a joke.
2) Alex Call at one point was rated a top 10 prospect for the Sox.

So, yes, he was a "prospect." Not a good one.

harwar
05-24-2019, 10:32 AM
:bandance::bandance:

Admit it: nobody expected a split in this series.




I did say on here last week that i was, "hoping for a split, and then win the series against the twins" heh . even though the Twins have apparently become the best best team in baseball, that's exactly what the Astros were before the White Sox got there . anyway, this is sure a lot of fun lately.

Paulwny
05-24-2019, 10:51 AM
What's great about this start is he changed his approach in the SECOND inning. The Astros clearly read his change up and fastball splits and he picked up on their readiness for the change up.

He then went fastball slider and dominated the game.

I think it was more out of necessity, as his change in the first 3 or so innings didn't have the same sinking action it's had in previous starts. Makes this performance all the more impressive.

Let's have some love for McCann. I suspect he saw what was occurring and adjusted his pitch selection.

ChiSoxNationPres
05-24-2019, 10:58 AM
Let's have some love for McCann. I suspect he saw what was occurring and adjusted his pitch selection.

Absolutely. They seem to have good chemistry together.

DumpJerry
05-24-2019, 11:00 AM
When the game ended, I texted my friend "how did Adam Eaton do today?"

thomas35forever
05-24-2019, 11:35 AM
When the game ended, I texted my friend "how did Adam Eaton do today?"

Zing!

HomeFish
05-24-2019, 01:19 PM
Adam Eaton has had more than 6 good games for the Nationals, to be fair. Just not a whole lot more due to injury.

Honestly unless the recent success that Giolito and Lopez have been having becomes the norm, this may be a trade that both teams lost.

longtimefan
05-24-2019, 01:23 PM
.....One thing Iím not optimistic on is Yonder Alonso. As Jim Margalus pointed out, and I paraphrase, although his BABIP is low, heís not a good candidate for ďprogression to the meanĒ in BABIP. Specifically, he hits left handed and he pulls the ball, so teams will continue shifting on him, and heís not a fast runner. He may run into an occasional HR, but at this point I think heís sunk cost......that the Sox should DFA Alonso and call up Collins. I think this would be better for the Sox (I think Collins right now is a better hitter than Alonso; even if his average is the same, heíll walk as much but hit for more power than Alonso) AND for Collinsí development (since heíll get to learn from McCann. For now, Castillo still has a place on the roster as Lopezís personal catcher.

That's an interesting thought. My plan (even though Hahn hasn't taken my calls yet) is to immediately get Palka playing time at 1B in the minors. Then move Alonso & Castillo in June or July for whatever. This would make room for Palka to be the DH and spell Abreu at first. Also, make room for Collins as the second catcher. I don't think we could move Alonso without a way to backup Jose and give him an occasional break. Also, Tilson/Cordell are better options in RF than Palka.

JermaineDye05
05-24-2019, 01:26 PM
Adam Eaton has had more than 6 good games for the Nationals, to be fair. Just not a whole lot more due to injury.

Honestly unless the recent success that Giolito and Lopez have been having becomes the norm, this may be a trade that both teams lost.

I'm struggling to see how one could come to that conclusion.

kobo
05-24-2019, 01:43 PM
That's an interesting thought. My plan (even though Hahn hasn't taken my calls yet) is to immediately get Palka playing time at 1B in the minors. Then move Alonso & Castillo in June or July for whatever. This would make room for Palka to be the DH and spell Abreu at first. Also, make room for Collins as the second catcher. I don't think we could move Alonso without a way to backup Jose and give him an occasional break. Also, Tilson/Cordell are better options in RF than Palka.
Palka stinks. I think we have seen enough of him at the ML level to know the only thing he might be able to do semi-regularly is hit a homerun. He has 29 hits at Charlotte since being demoted, 9 of those are homeruns.

longtimefan
05-24-2019, 01:55 PM
Palka stinks. I think we have seen enough of him at the ML level to know the only thing he might be able to do semi-regularly is hit a homerun. He has 29 hits at Charlotte since being demoted, 9 of those are homeruns.

So Alonso is better? I see more potential in Palka. He probably is not the long term answer but he's hitting again and he did club 27 HRs last year. I'm sick of watching Alonso batting .170.

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 01:57 PM
I'm struggling to see how one could come to that conclusion.

Homefish has been saying for years that this was the one "rebuild trade" that we clearly lost. So this is actually him starting to come around on it. :tongue:

rdivaldi
05-24-2019, 01:58 PM
Adam Eaton has had more than 6 good games for the Nationals, to be fair. Just not a whole lot more due to injury.

Honestly unless the recent success that Giolito and Lopez have been having becomes the norm, this may be a trade that both teams lost.

Eaton is also a clubhouse irritant that has been already being mentioned as a necessary trade candidate. He's been a total flop in DC.

I also fail to see how anyone could think "both teams lost", that is ridiculous.

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 02:03 PM
Palka stinks. I think we have seen enough of him at the ML level to know the only thing he might be able to do semi-regularly is hit a homerun. He has 29 hits at Charlotte since being demoted, 9 of those are homeruns.

You talk about homeruns as if they are a bad thing. :scratch:

He's hitting .287/.433/.594 at Charlotte. You really can't point towards his performance there as being a black mark on his resume. The thing that obviously stands out is the OBP. Can he keep something like that up (or even within .100 points) at the major league level? If so, that's a useful DH. He still wouldn't eliminate the need to have Alonso on the roster, though, unless he can learn to play 1B.

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 02:06 PM
Eaton is also a clubhouse irritant that has been already being mentioned as a necessary trade candidate. He's been a total flop in DC.

I also fail to see how anyone could think "both teams lost", that is ridiculous.

His point is literally "if you ignore all signs of progress from Lopez/Giolito, then this is a terrible trade."

Flight #24
05-24-2019, 02:22 PM
His point is literally "if you ignore all signs of progress from Lopez/Giolito, then this is a terrible trade."

And if you ignore the hits and strikeouts that Sox hitters and pitchers respectively got in the 2005 playoffs, they would have been 3 and out and ringless for 100 years.

voodoochile
05-24-2019, 02:44 PM
That's an interesting thought. My plan (even though Hahn hasn't taken my calls yet) is to immediately get Palka playing time at 1B in the minors. Then move Alonso & Castillo in June or July for whatever. This would make room for Palka to be the DH and spell Abreu at first. Also, make room for Collins as the second catcher. I don't think we could move Alonso without a way to backup Jose and give him an occasional break. Also, Tilson/Cordell are better options in RF than Palka.

Palka is not tall and he might not have the necessary flexibility and arm reach to play first on a regular basis.

ChiTownTrojan
05-24-2019, 02:50 PM
Palka is not tall and he might not have the necessary flexibility and arm reach to play first on a regular basis.

Fortunately he wouldn't have to do it "on a regular basis". Could he be a backup, spelling Abreu once per week or so?

Hitmen77
05-24-2019, 07:08 PM
Alex Call is not a prospect!

1) it was a joke.
2) Alex Call at one point was rated a top 10 prospect for the Sox.

So, yes, he was a "prospect." Not a good one.

Yep, Alex Call wasn't anything of value but now gets hyped up as sort of significant loss because we traded him. Whatever happened to Call after being traded to the Indians anyway? I wanted to check his 2019 stats and it looks like he hasn't played at all in 2019. I wasn't able to find any online stories about an injury.

Hitmen77
05-24-2019, 07:19 PM
Anyone still think Eloy should be in Charlotte working on his defense? Anyone? Buehler?

Maybe the same people who were writing off Giolito last season? :dunno:

I have no problem with Eloy trying to improve his OF defense at the major league level this season. .....just as long as he doesn't hurt himself doing so.

TDog
05-24-2019, 08:26 PM
Is there any advantage to releasing a player as opposed to DFAing him? If he's willing to accept the assignment to AAA (unlikely), what's the harm in keeping him around in case he ends up figuring something out down there, or he's needed in Chicago due to injury?


That depends. What outcome you want when you say a player should be designated for assignment? Do you want him to be offered a minor league assignment? Do you want him to be released? If you want him to be traded, you're not going to designate him for assignment first, lowering his trade value unless his designation for assignment has more to do with someone you want to add to the 25-man roster.

Grzegorz
05-24-2019, 08:57 PM
Palka is not tall and he might not have the necessary flexibility and arm reach to play first on a regular basis.
Does Vaughn?

Tragg
05-24-2019, 10:27 PM
Alex Call is not a prospect!

No, he's just a 3rd round draft choice made by what is allegedly a top-level evaluation and drafting team.
The worst part of that was relieving the Indians of their salary problems. That's not even playing checkers- it's tic tac toe.

voodoochile
05-24-2019, 10:39 PM
Does Vaughn?

Who?

voodoochile
05-24-2019, 10:40 PM
No, he's just a 3rd round draft choice made by what is allegedly a top-level evaluation and drafting team.
The worst part of that was relieving the Indians of their salary problems. That's not even playing checkers- it's tic tac toe.

:deadhorse:

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2019, 07:41 AM
How Alonso was acquired has no bearing on whether or not he should be retained at this point, and itís silly to rehash those discussions.

I think we can agree that heís been terrible, and that:

Collins could provide the same or better production, with additional positional flexibility since he can catch while Alonso canít;

Collins isnít going to learn to hit major league pitching while facing AAA pitchers;

Collins doesnít have a veteran catcher to mentor him in Charlotte, but would have that opportunity with both McCann and Castillo on the roster.

Calling up Collins now gives Zavala an opportunity to be the full-time starting catcher at Charlotte.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2019, 08:01 AM
I just looked up Alonsoís splits.

Heís actually worse - much worse - against RHP than against LHP.

He hits the ball on the ground way too much.

He hits the ball to the pull side or up the middle, right into the shift.

Heís terrible at home.

He has all the signs of a player whose bat speed has slowed, so heís starting his swing early and hoping to hit it in their air to the pull side, and so he swings over the top of sinking/breaking pitches and hits them into the ground. If the pitcher hangs a slider or throws a changeup, Alonso can do some damage. But living on mistakes is not a long-term career strategy for a DH. And the fact that heís worse against RHP means that a smart manager doesnít have to burn a LH reliever to get him out, which totally defeats the point of Renteria putting him in the middle of the lineup.

Tragg
05-25-2019, 08:52 AM
How Alonso was acquired has no bearing on whether or not he should be retained at this point, and it’s silly to rehash those discussions.
How the Sox repeatedly end up with players like Alonso goes to the core what plagues this franchise.

That said, it's a sunk cost. He should be released. There's no reason to keep him around.
Except, it's my opinion that the plan of the front office was not to resign Abreu, to have Alonso's option kick in and use him to hold 1B for next season.
The reason I believe that, despite some off-hand comments from Hahn about how he wants Abreu back, is that the Sox have never made a serious effort to extend Abreu. And that is the one thing they are good at - extending players they want extended.
Second they are playing Alonso every day. That will kick in his option.
Third,if they wanted to flip Alonso, they would make sure his option didn't kick in AND that he would have plenty of room for max Aug/Sep at bats without it kicking in.
Fourth, Hahn has cut numerous veterans with inflated contracts who didn't perform, including one this year. They want this guy around for some reason.
Plans go awry, and even with the screwy talent evaluation of this franchise, this Alonso can't be part of their plans for next year. But they'll go down fighting, it appears.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2019, 09:15 AM
How the Sox repeatedly end up with players like Alonso goes to the core what plagues this franchise.

That said, it's a sunk cost. He should be released. There's no reason to keep him around.
Except, it's my opinion that the plan of the front office was not to resign Abreu, to have Alonso's option kick in and use him to hold 1B for next season.
The reason I believe that, despite some off-hand comments from Hahn about how he wants Abreu back, is that the Sox have never made a serious effort to extend Abreu. And that is the one thing they are good at - extending players they want extended.
Second they are playing Alonso every day. That will kick in his option.
Third,if they wanted to flip Alonso, they would make sure his option didn't kick in AND that he would have plenty of room for max Aug/Sep at bats without it kicking in.
Fourth, Hahn has cut numerous veterans with inflated contracts who didn't perform, including one this year. They want this guy around for some reason.
Plans go awry, and even with the screwy talent evaluation of this franchise, this Alonso can't be part of their plans for next year. But they'll go down fighting, it appears.

Iím not disagreeing with anything youíve written, but at this point itís all immaterial to what the Sox should do. Given the context:

First, no one other than Robert is actually showing HR power at Birmingham. I think itís partly a function of AA stats generally, and Southern League stats specifically, being depressed this year. Itís also a function of most of those guys all coming to AA at the same time; struggles are to be expected. Itís also a function of Regions Field being a HR-suppressing park compared to other AA ballparks. Iím not terribly worried - yet. But I still think itís OK if even a highly-touted prospect like Rutherford or Sheets spends 1.5 or even two years at Birmingham and doesnít hit a lot of home runs. If they show gap power, then they can go to Charlotte. If the HRs come in Charlotte, great. If the HRs donít come in Charlotte, THEN itís probably OK to declare a corner player (who otherwise was expected to hit for power) a bust. All that to say, Sheets and Burger arenít exactly nipping at Abreuís heels, and Abreu is back to his old self after a slow start, so I think it makes a lot of sense to sign Abreu to an extension.

Second, Collins gives you better production NOW than what Alonso brings.

Third, if Abreu were to get hurt, at most youíd lose the DH for a single game if Collins or McCann had to move off of DH to make sure 1B/C were covered. Indeed, thatís not different than right now, as Alonso would have to move to 1B from DH if Abreu got hurt mid-game. Matt Skole and Nicky Delmonico are just a phone call and a plane ride away.

Fourth, Collins would benefit MORE learning from McCann, and learning to hit major league pitching.

Fifth, itís better for Zavalaís development to get to start at catcher five times a week in Charlotte, rather than just once or twice.

Please, someone give me a counter-argument as to why it would be BAD for Alonso to get DFAíd and Collins to take his place on the roster.

voodoochile
05-25-2019, 09:29 AM
Two points...

Collins has only shown his ability to hit consistently this year. So it's really not surprising he hasn't been called up yet. I won't be surprised if that day is coming soon. I don't think Zevala's development has much to do with it. He needs to hit better to earn a chance at the majors anyway. He's currently hitting .218 with an OPS of .758.

It's only the end of May. Yonder is currently at 189 PA. Last year he had 574. So there's a long way to go before the team has to worry about his option in 2020 and even if it does vest, it is hardly the end of the world. They could play him every day until the trade deadline and then DFA him and they'd still have plenty of room for error. I'm not advocating for that, but it still seems silly to worry about something that is so far away and unlikely to an extreme unless he turns it around.

Mohoney
05-25-2019, 09:31 AM
Please, someone give me a counter-argument as to why it would be BAD for Alonso to get DFAíd and Collins to take his place on the roster.
The only arguments I can think of are:

1) service time manipulation

2) the team truly believes that his bat is not major-league-ready

ChiTownTrojan
05-25-2019, 10:11 AM
The only arguments I can think of are:

1) service time manipulation

2) the team truly believes that his bat is not major-league-ready

I doubt service time manipulation has anything to do with it. Collins is unlikely to ever be worth some massive 9-figure contract. If he is one day, I guess thatís a good problem to have.

I think it has more to do with Alonso than Collins. Itís still less than a third of the way into the season, and theyíre hoping he can turn things around. Plus, the team doesnít have anyone else in the organization with any long-term major league experience at 1B. If Abreu were to miss some time, youíre looking at Delmonico or Skole as the starting 1B. Maybe they think Alonsoís track record gives him a better chance of success in such a scenario.

Tragg
05-25-2019, 10:16 AM
Please, someone give me a counter-argument as to why it would be BAD for Alonso to get DFA’d and Collins to take his place on the roster.
Because they want Collins to play every day to improve at catcher. He'd be the bench catcher in Chicago.
That said, there are several other players that could replace Alonso. Why I believe he's not being replaced was detailed above.
As for Collins' bat, he's struck out in 41 of 98 At Bats along with his .918 OPS. Does that signal ready? Or inflated stats that likely will decompress once he leaves the AAA land of sketchy pitching.

Mohoney
05-25-2019, 10:25 AM
I doubt service time manipulation has anything to do with it. Collins is unlikely to ever be worth some massive 9-figure contract. If he is one day, I guess thatís a good problem to have.

I think it has more to do with Alonso than Collins. Itís still less than a third of the way into the season, and theyíre hoping he can turn things around. Plus, the team doesnít have anyone else in the organization with any long-term major league experience at 1B. If Abreu were to miss some time, youíre looking at Delmonico or Skole as the starting 1B. Maybe they think Alonsoís track record gives him a better chance of success in such a scenario.

Itís not about delaying his free agency by a year. I think he comes up at some point this year anyway. Itís more about getting 3 years of league-minimum salary instead of 2. In the past decade, the Super Two cutoff has fallen somewhere between a low of 122 days and a high of 146 days. Usually mid-to-late June is a safe time for promotion.

Mohoney
05-25-2019, 10:35 AM
Because they want Collins to play every day to improve at catcher. He'd be the bench catcher in Chicago.
That said, there are several other players that could replace Alonso. Why I believe he's not being replaced was detailed above.
As for Collins' bat, he's struck out in 41 of 98 At Bats along with his .918 OPS. Does that signal ready? Or inflated stats that likely will decompress once he leaves the AAA land of sketchy pitching.
With 3 catchers, McCann can DH a lot more often, and Abreu can DH, with Collins playing 1B. Collins can catch bullpen warmups/starter side sessions to become better acquainted with these pitchers. Collins can start watching tape on major league hitters and pitchers.

Yes, there would be a reduction in actual playing time, but there would be no shortage of things to do up here. I would prefer a nice half-season jump-start, simply because of the all the extra things a catcher needs to learn.

longtimefan
05-25-2019, 10:59 AM
It's obvious the Sox don't want Collins in the majors yet with Zavala being called up to replace Castillo. There has been several good theories posted on why Collins will stay in the minors for now but only Hahn and crew know for sure.
I don't want to keep Alonso but you must first answer who is sharing duties with Abreu before you can dump/move him.