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Bucktown
09-19-2002, 10:42 PM
This guy fakes a bunt and goes a strike in the hole EVERY SINGLE AT BAT. When it is time to drop a bunt he doesn't. Hey Willie, no one believes you can bunt, not even your coaches. You are not going far in this league if you only get two strikes and everyone else gets three. Thanks for blowing this game.

balboner
09-19-2002, 10:57 PM
I think it's safe to say that Willie Harris cant "hit" in the majors. More than 3/4 of his hits have been infield hits this year. There's no way he should start at 2b next year. The IF should be konerko, jimenez, crede, jose.

Jerry_Manuel
09-19-2002, 11:11 PM
He can't hit that well, but his defense is way better than Durham's. He can at least use his speed to get hits, so he's not a complete hole in the lineup like Royce.

RKMeibalane
09-19-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
He can't hit that well, but his defense is way better than Durham's. He can at least use his speed to get hits, so he's not a complete hole in the lineup like Royce.

His superior speed is a direct result of the special ice cream Manuel has been buying him- Butterfinger blast. It's loaded with candybar chunks. A pity that Royce Clayton never discovered this particular variety of ice cream.

duke of dorwood
09-19-2002, 11:47 PM
He should not be close to the top of the order

Jerry_Manuel
09-19-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
He should not be close to the top of the order

He should be the 9th place hitter.

RichH55
09-20-2002, 01:38 AM
Super utility guy Willie Harris

DrCrawdad
09-20-2002, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Super utility guy Willie Harris

I guess so. Friday's Tribune says:

"Willie Harris, Thursday night's shortstop, joined the Sox on July 26 and homered in his first game."

I thought the Wee one played 2nd.

Jerry_Manuel
09-20-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I guess so. Friday's Tribune says:

"Willie Harris, Thursday night's shortstop, joined the Sox on July 26 and homered in his first game."

I thought the Wee one played 2nd.

I told you he was fast, Doctor!

hold2dibber
09-20-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by balboner
I think it's safe to say that Willie Harris cant "hit" in the majors. More than 3/4 of his hits have been infield hits this year. There's no way he should start at 2b next year. The IF should be konerko, jimenez, crede, jose.

Give me a break; the guy is just barely 24 yrs old and has less than 200 MLB ABs - that's a little early for anyone to decide that Willie can't hit in the majors.

With that said, I don't think he'll be much more than a utility guy (and I never understood why so many people were so gung ho about him when he was in the minors) but I've heard several people in the organization report that he is an extremely hard worker with a great attitude, and so if he can play a little D, run like hell and provide a little wee bit of offense, he should be a useful player to have around.

FarmerAndy
09-20-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
His superior speed is a direct result of the special ice cream Manuel has been buying him- Butterfinger blast. It's loaded with candybar chunks. A pity that Royce Clayton never discovered this particular variety of ice cream.

Is there really anybody out there who find these ice cream posts funny???

dirty_k
09-20-2002, 05:42 PM
I'm not giving up on him yet but so many players get hyped up too much. Remember all the hopla about Caruso who never had a solid hit...what were they thinking. And Maggs was crushing liners when he came up but was just a prospect not as highly regarded as some of the other young outfielders.

This thread is fine with me. For entertainment, go to the I'm embarassed thread. I like the comment about monkeys being offended.

FarmerAndy
09-20-2002, 05:52 PM
We're going to go through the same arguments all over again, just with a differnt cast of characters.

1B, 3B, RF, LF, DH : You need to make sure you get the best offensive production.

2B, SS, CF : You need to go with your best defensive options.


If 1-6 in the order hit like they are supposed to, you can afford a weak bat or two at the bottom of the order. By the same token, if the heart of the batting order fails, you're gonna lose alot of games, even if your 8 and 9 hitters do well at the plate.

If Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and maybe one or two others hit on all cylinders, this team will be fine offensively.

If Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko don't hit on all cylinders, then we're in trouble no matter which way you shuffle things around.

Let's get some solid defense going up the middle.

RKMeibalane
09-20-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
We're going to go through the same arguments all over again, just with a differnt cast of characters.

1B, 3B, RF, LF, DH : You need to make sure you get the best offensive production.

2B, SS, CF : You need to go with your best defensive options.


If 1-6 in the order hit like they are supposed to, you can afford a weak bat or two at the bottom of the order. By the same token, if the heart of the batting order fails, you're gonna lose alot of games, even if your 8 and 9 hitters do well at the plate.

If Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and maybe one or two others hit on all cylinders, this team will be fine offensively.

If Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko don't hit on all cylinders, then we're in trouble no matter which way you shuffle things around.

Let's get some solid defense going up the middle.

Generally speaking, your argument is correct. However, there are exceptions to every rule. There are several problems that can manifest themselves if there are "holes" in a batting order. For example, what happens if the Sox are trailing by three runs in the ninth inning, and Harris comes to the plate. Due up after him are Rowand and Valentin, with Frank Thomas to follow if anyone reaches. But if Harris doesn't reach, it becomes less likely that Thomas will get to hit. This is why holes can be harmful.

FarmerAndy
09-20-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Generally speaking, your argument is correct. However, there are exceptions to every rule. There are several problems that can manifest themselves if there are "holes" in a batting order. For example, what happens if the Sox are trailing by three runs in the ninth inning, and Harris comes to the plate. Due up after him are Rowand and Valentin, with Frank Thomas to follow if anyone reaches. But if Harris doesn't reach, it becomes less likely that Thomas will get to hit. This is why holes can be harmful.

I understand your logic, but holes in the field can hurt just as bad, not to mention more often.

A situation like you described may occur every now and then, but a weakened defense makes you more vulnerable every inning of every game.

Your example is also another reason why I think Valentin would be better suited as a utility man. That would be the perfect situation to bring in a great clutch hitter like Jose to pinch hit for Harris.

Nellie_Fox
09-21-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Generally speaking, your argument is correct. However, there are exceptions to every rule. There are several problems that can manifest themselves if there are "holes" in a batting order. For example, what happens if the Sox are trailing by three runs in the ninth inning, and Harris comes to the plate. Due up after him are Rowand and Valentin, with Frank Thomas to follow if anyone reaches. But if Harris doesn't reach, it becomes less likely that Thomas will get to hit. This is why holes can be harmful. Jeez, have American League fans become so obsessed with offense at every position that they've forgotten the role of the pinch hitter? That's what you do about your good field, no hit middle infielders late in the game when you need offense.

This Sox team is second only to the Yankees in runs scored. One of the main reasons they are struggling to get back above .500 is their defense. Defense is not just errors, it's the balls no one gets to because of a bad jump, bad positioning, or a bad read on the ball.

Get back to the basics. Solid defense up the middle, good pitching, and let's see what happens.

RichH55
09-21-2002, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Jeez, have American League fans become so obsessed with offense at every position that they've forgotten the role of the pinch hitter? That's what you do about your good field, no hit middle infielders late in the game when you need offense.

This Sox team is second only to the Yankees in runs scored. One of the main reasons they are struggling to get back above .500 is their defense. Defense is not just errors, it's the balls no one gets to because of a bad jump, bad positioning, or a bad read on the ball.

Get back to the basics. Solid defense up the middle, good pitching, and let's see what happens.



How about good pitching...that usually masks the defense anyway......Case in point..pro-defense (you know what I mean) are usually of a mindset that you cant win without great fielders especially in key positions..However the two teams in the Series last year- The Dbacks with Womack at SS(simply brutal), and I want to say Jay Bell at 2B(not sure, but who they played was surely not a good glover)...and the Yankees with Luis Polinia(sorry just wanted to throw him in), and mainly Soriano at 2B(not a defensive powerhouse) and Jeter(who is regarded as sub-standard in fielding).....Now if you are going to throw Mussina-Clemens-Johnson-Schilling out there you have some leeway....Pitching is key, it will always be key, but this isn't 1950. Hitting and Pitching are king with defense being 3rd in importance. We won the division with Jose at SS and Ray at 2B, not great fielders though they did turn alot of DPs...but Eldred had a good year and JB was solid as well....rather than insisting on playing blackholes out there in the field we should really focus on getting pitching help...Getting a Jamie Moyer would make up for a lot of defensive shortcomings

Bucktown
09-21-2002, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Get back to the basics. Solid defense up the middle, good pitching, and let's see what happens.

Speaking of basics, we have to get the tying run in from third with less than two outs. When I started this thread it wasn't to complain about lack of offense from Willie. It was to complain about lack of fundamentals.

If you are going to be a solid defensive player that hits around .240 then you need to be able to execut the sacrifice bunt.

He can't bunt in the tying run when needed. And he always starts out 0-1 with that stupid fake bunt that no one is buying.