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View Full Version : *Official* 4-24-19 Orioles Win 4-3 Postgamer


guillensdisciple
04-24-2019, 09:17 PM
Sox are 5-7 against the Royals, Tigers, and Orioles.

We were told that this year would show improvement from a wins perspective.

This isn't a playoff team but it has to be a 70 win baseball team.

People should be held accountable if it is not.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2019, 09:24 PM
People should be held accountable if it is not.

Agree but they won't be.

Another horse**** start by one of Hahn's acquisitions.

Domeshot17
04-24-2019, 09:29 PM
Biggest disappointment for me was the way the game ended. Moncada got an absolute meatball to hit and hit a hard grounder into the shift. If the Kid wants to be a star, that is one he can't miss. Should have hit that ball 450 feet.

hoosiersoxfan
04-24-2019, 09:32 PM
Hard to have a good record when this is what you are running out to the bump in 40% of your games

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D49uJagWAAAPnk8.png:large

voodoochile
04-24-2019, 09:39 PM
Biggest disappointment for me was the way the game ended. Moncada got an absolute meatball to hit and hit a hard grounder into the shift. If the Kid wants to be a star, that is one he can't miss. Should have hit that ball 450 feet.

Caught him on the hands a bit. It was further inside than he expected. But that just shows how hard it is to do. If every player with great skills absolutely drilled every meatball pitch there would be players hitting .600.

Domeshot17
04-24-2019, 09:41 PM
Caught him on the hands a bit. It was further inside than he expected. But that just shows how hard it is to do. If every player with great skills absolutely drilled every meatball pitch there would be players hitting .600.

Not disagreeing - but stars are stars for a reason. He is young, but if we ever make the turn to good, these are situations he has to deliver

Tragg
04-24-2019, 10:00 PM
Agree but they won't be.

Another horse**** start by one of Hahn's acquisitions.

Hahn is just another sleepy White Sox lifer. No interest in modernizing the outfit, shoring up his weaknesses (talent evaluation in contrast to many other GMs who spent time in the bushes), no interest in bringing in fresh blood or top front office talent, etc. Lazy trades bring bad results.

Railsplitter
04-24-2019, 10:26 PM
Funny the Sox should drop two night games in a row after somebody posted on the WSI Facebook the fact the Sox were unbeaten in night games.

BainesHOF
04-24-2019, 10:27 PM
People should be held accountable...

That's the big problem with this organization. People are not held accountable. I'm already sick and tired of watching the avalanche of mental mistakes this season. (D.J. will tell you about them on radio. Forget about hearing about many of them on TV.)

I've been an enthusiastic backer of Renteria, but I'm really souring on him as a manager. I'm just tired of watching dumb baseball on repeat. Yes, he does hold players accountable when they don't hustle, but he doesn't do it for mental mistakes. I also blame a lame coaching staff. In a way, Renteria deserves to feel the results of poor coaching because he accepted the staff to take the job.

And it was just a drip in the ocean, but watching Moncada receive the 3-0 green light when we were down by 3 in the sixth was bad baseball on Renteria's part. Is he managing to win or to be liked?

BainesHOF
04-24-2019, 10:29 PM
Hahn is just another sleepy White Sox lifer. No interest in modernizing the outfit, shoring up his weaknesses (talent evaluation in contrast to many other GMs who spent time in the bushes), no interest in bringing in fresh blood or top front office talent, etc.

I agree. Hahn might know better, but, if he does, it still reflects poorly on him for not wanting to rock the boat to make necessary changes.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2019, 10:31 PM
Hard to have a good record when this is what you are running out to the bump in 40% of your games

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D49uJagWAAAPnk8.png:large

Flashback to the early 2000's when the back end of the rotation was horse dung and cost the Sox dearly especially in 2003 and 2004.

ricker182
04-24-2019, 10:37 PM
Cooper should be on the hot seat.

I'm sure he has some input on these pitchers they sign and claims he can make it work.

I haven't seen that Cooper magic in a long time.

The rotation is an absolute joke.

TDog
04-24-2019, 10:47 PM
Sox are 5-7 against the Royals, Tigers, and Orioles.

We were told that this year would show improvement from a wins perspective.

This isn't a playoff team but it has to be a 70 win baseball team.

People should be held accountable if it is not.

You were told a lot of things.

Today the starting pitching wasn't very good, but the White Sox lost by one run and two runners who got to third with less than two outs were left at third at the close of the inning.

Do the math.

Brian26
04-24-2019, 11:13 PM
Biggest disappointment for me was the way the game ended. Moncada got an absolute meatball to hit and hit a hard grounder into the shift. If the Kid wants to be a star, that is one he can't miss. Should have hit that ball 450 feet.

Moncada smoked that ball, and it should have been a hit. The O's had the shift on and had made a defensive sub. It was a nice play. Tip your hat.

Brian26
04-24-2019, 11:14 PM
Agree but they won't be.

Another horse**** start by one of Hahn's acquisitions.

Santana settled down and pitched well before Ricky gave him the early hook.

Brian26
04-24-2019, 11:15 PM
Sox are 5-7 against the Royals, Tigers, and Orioles.

We were told that this year would show improvement from a wins perspective.

This isn't a playoff team but it has to be a 70 win baseball team.

People should be held accountable if it is not.

The Orioles have taken two out of three from Boston, NYY and the Sox. They may be playing over their heads now.

Brian26
04-24-2019, 11:29 PM
That's the big problem with this organization. People are not held accountable. I'm already sick and tired of watching the avalanche of mental mistakes this season. (D.J. will tell you about them on radio. Forget about hearing about many of them on TV.)

1st inning tonight, Dwight Smith Jr hits a double over Engel's head that Engel missed by a couple of feet and probably should have caught. No idea why he was playing so shallow with the #3 hitter in the lineup at bat. Nunez then comes up and hits a gapper to RCF. Where is Engel playing, you ask? Left center. Not a word said on the tv side.

Nellie_Fox
04-25-2019, 12:52 AM
1st inning tonight, Dwight Smith Jr hits a double over Engel's head that Engel missed by a couple of feet and probably should have caught. No idea why he was playing so shallow with the #3 hitter in the lineup at bat. Nunez then comes up and hits a gapper to RCF. Where is Engel playing, you ask? Left center. Not a word said on the tv side.
The dugout positions the outfield.

Frater Perdurabo
04-25-2019, 05:38 AM
When your starting pitchers are bad, everything else is magnified.

Nova and Santana are not pitching well. Perhaps they are finished. Such acquisitions are rightly blamed on the GM, but organizationally a GM whose background is in finance and contacts must by necessity rely on the clubís major league scouting operation to, you know, scout major leaguers. So the GM should hold those major league scouts accountable, right? Well, Iíd guess that perhaps Hahn isnít allowed to fire anyone in the scouting department. Itís on ownership.

Also, Iím coming around to the idea that perhaps Cooper may have too much power and influence. Iím not sure if his methods have been counteracted over the years by opposing hitting coaches and hitters making adjustments to the cutter, or if heís allowed too much power in saying ďI can fix that guyĒ from another organization.

I think Renteria - who is not a Sox lifer - will be the fall guy. If so, the right thing may happen for the wrong reasons. But I have no particular attachment to him, either. Letís just hope that the Sox would then have an open and rigorous search process, and that Omar Vizquel would emerge as the best choice on objective merits, not just because heís already with the organization.

If the Sox did choose to move on from Cooper, there are some interesting candidates in our own organization, like Richard Dotson. While I donít necessarily agree with staying inside the organization, IF they chose to do so they do have some good options, thankfully.

Bottom line: I think Cooper may still be an effective pitching coach, but perhaps he ought not be relied upon to cherry-pick veterans from other teams that ďhe can fix.Ē And we need to overhaul the major league scouting operation, probably by BOTH bringing in new people AND incorporating advanced analytics to cross-check scouting reports.

One last thought: I suppose itís possible that another tanking season is what the Sox planned all along, and they are angling for another high draft pick in 2020. If so, they are executing that plan to perfection.

TomBradley72
04-25-2019, 07:46 AM
I'm souring on Rentaria as well- really want Vizquel (and a new coaching staff) for 2020. I'm not as sour on Cooper- is positive signs with the young pitchers- rotation and bullpen- so he might still be effective.

My issue is with not being smarter on a few veterans to bring into the mix- Adam Jones instead of Jay, Gio Gonzalez instead of Nova, etc.- they can afford it, neither player needed a long term deal- but you could have a much better 2019 team without hurting the rebuild.

Brian26
04-25-2019, 08:06 AM
The dugout positions the outfield.

Correct. That wasnít an indictment of Engel.

beasly213
04-25-2019, 09:18 AM
Moncada smoked that ball, and it should have been a hit. The O's had the shift on and had made a defensive sub. It was a nice play. Tip your hat.

Yep. He saw a pitch to hit, hit it hard, but defense was lined up right and even took a really nice play to get him out.

Kilroy
04-25-2019, 09:18 AM
Hard to have a good record when this is what you are running out to the bump in 40% of your games

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D49uJagWAAAPnk8.png:large

I've see enuf of this **** show. I'd rather see Banuelos starting along with some call-up.... any call-up... except Covey. I don't even want him bagging my groceries.

At least if they call up someone we can sit and watch with hope. Can't do that with Nova or Santana.

Mohoney
04-25-2019, 10:22 AM
My main question on Santana is if he can ramp up his velocity at some point. Throwing that many sub-90 mph fastballs is likely to produce those kinds of results. By the later innings of his outing, he was throwing 91-92 and getting people out.

Itís not a matter of mental mistakes or a lack of control. If it were, the situation would be more encouraging. Right now, his stuff just isnít good enough to get the job done at the major league level.

It reminds me a lot of Miguel Gonzalez. At 91-92, and working all four quadrants of the strike zone, he was tough to hit against. At below 90, he wasnít.

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2019, 11:36 AM
My issue is with not being smarter on a few veterans to bring into the mix- Adam Jones instead of Jay, Gio Gonzalez instead of Nova, etc.- they can afford it, neither player needed a long term deal- but you could have a much better 2019 team without hurting the rebuild.

They shot for the moon with a water gun on Machado, instead of looking at more reasonable options that could provide 3-4 WAR results to make this team better and build forward.

Brantley was the guy I wanted them to get from the start. Hell, even McCuthcen would have been a nice professional OF to get in here.

Both signed very affordable team friendly short deals. Short deals allowing you to finish developing your stacked pile of OF prospects.

Mohoney
04-25-2019, 11:47 AM
They shot for the moon with a water gun on Machado, instead of looking at more reasonable options that could provide 3-4 WAR results to make this team better and build forward.

Brantley was the guy I wanted them to get from the start. Hell, even McCuthcen would have been a nice professional OF to get in here.

Both signed very affordable team friendly short deals. Short deals allowing you to finish developing your stacked pile of OF prospects.
Those affordable team-friendly short deals were signed with teams projected to contend in 2019. I don't know if the White Sox would have been able to sign those two players to those contracts. I assume there would have been a "bad team surcharge" attached.

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2019, 01:04 PM
Those affordable team-friendly short deals were signed with teams projected to contend in 2019. I don't know if the White Sox would have been able to sign those two players to those contracts. I assume there would have been a "bad team surcharge" attached.

Yes, it would have cost more for sure but nowhere close to even 25% the pipe dream which was Machado.

What's really pissing me off now the more I'm thinking about it every passing game, they knew damn well they were planning to move Moncada to 3B. Why put your entire focus and attention to one guy in Free Agency like they did with Machado who ultimately ended up at 3B?

It's almost like they were driven by dumb fanfare where it was "Machado or Bust" as opposed to making sound aggressive baseball decisions in getting good baseball players who you are actually willing to afford under whatever budget constraints you set for yourself.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2019, 01:12 PM
When your starting pitchers are bad, everything else is magnified.

I think the Sox now have the worst team ERA in baseball at around six and a half.

wxkid23
04-25-2019, 01:17 PM
I know this goes against the rebuild crowd around here....

But Tim is already regressing pretty rapidly. 250 over his last 28ab, and his bb/k splits are fully in alignment with career norms, k is down some, but he doesn’t walk. Tim is good for a hot stretch or two each year, he likely just had one early. I always saw Tim’s ceiling around what Uribe turned into. That’s not bad, but this rebuild needs more right now.

Yoan avg is regressing, but his obp is at least holding steady, and gives one hope this is a turn around year for him.

Eloy as we all know looks lost currently. (Before he left)

It’s just some reality. I wish things were all peaches n cream too. I’m looking for bright spots and hope, but I remain skeptical.

LITTLE NELL
04-25-2019, 01:20 PM
I think the Sox now have the worst team ERA in baseball at around six and a half.

ESPN stats page and Baseball Reference has the Sox 27th at 5.44.
For comparison, the Orioles are last at 6.03 and the Ray's are first at 3.07

TDog
04-25-2019, 02:11 PM
I know this goes against the rebuild crowd around here....

But Tim is already regressing pretty rapidly. 250 over his last 28ab, and his bb/k splits are fully in alignment with career norms. Tim is good for a hot stretch or two each year, he likely just had one early.

Yoan avg is regressing, but his obp is at least holding steady, and gives one hope this is a turn around year for him.

Eloy as we all know looks lost currently. (Before he left)

Itís just some reality. I wish things were all peaches n cream too, Iím looking for bright spots and hope, but I remain skeptical.


While we aren't really in disagreement, I think there is a human reason for the regression that statistical analysis ignores. That may seem like splitting hairs, but I don't believe the "regression" (a term I don't use because it is so fatalist) is reverting to career norms as much as players needing to adjust their games to differing levels and modes of competition and unpredictable outside factors. Some consider such things excuses rather than factors that can be addressed for future improvement.



Anderson was having a bad weekend in New York, where you could place his slide, but there was a game in that series where the White Sox only got one hit. The game before that was played (not to its conclusion) in the rain, and the game after that was actually won with an Anderson grand slam. Even against the Royals, Anderson hit the home run to give the Sox the lead.


The big spike in Anderson's offense came after he returned from paternity leave, and the big valley came after he came back from the suspension. Both indicate mental reasons for his play. The suspension also could have brought more attention to him, relating to the way pitchers are attacking him, not simply looking at him as a player who is off to a fast start, but revising their scouting report to place a higher priority on his presence int he lineup.


Anderson's walk to strikeout ratio will always look bad because he doesn't walk. The lack of walks is not a bad thing for Anderson. Ideally, he should be attacking close pitches, not taking them because doing so might get him on base. Last year Anderson made a conscious effort to walk more, and it hurt his offensive production. This year I haven't seen enough of him to know if his fast start could be attributed to pitchers early this season not expecting Anderson to last year's version that took too many pitches. All of that is something a manager and hitting coach is supposed to be looking at. I don't know if they have been.


As for Moncada, he continues to be a new and improved hitter from what he's been since he came up with the Red Sox. I've only seen a couple of at bats where he has looked like the hitter he was last year, not just striking out, but putting himself in a position to strike out. He continues to attack pitches he hasn't in the past, often putting hem in play. I've been wondering if there would be a decline in his rate of success, even a slump, as pitchers adjust and stop coming at him with the pitches that got him out in past years. It's possible that adjustment, both among pitchers and Moncada, is already going on. With Moncada, the thing to worry about is his strikeouts, a huge hole in his game in the past that he has obviously worked on addressing. As with Anderson, he shouldn't be walking much, although he is likely to get pitched around more. Even when Moncada came up and fans assumed walks would be part of his game, they weren't. Last season he was called out on strikes significantly more than he walked.


Of course, a hitter who looks lost at the plate before a bereavement leave, may well be influenced by external factors.



There is much more to it than regression to norms. I certainly hope Anderson and Moncada establish new norms this season and into the future.

Mohoney
04-25-2019, 03:42 PM
Or, it is entirely possible that Tim Anderson never was going to hit .400 anyway...

LITTLE NELL
04-25-2019, 03:48 PM
Or, it is entirely possible that Tim Anderson never was going to hit .400 anyway...

Bingo!

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2019, 05:31 PM
Or, it is entirely possible that Tim Anderson never was going to hit .400 anyway...


No kidding. How odd that a guy regresses from hitting .440. No one saw that happening :o: :rolleyes:

And even if he's regressing as the stats are indicating, I still like what I'm seeing from him even when he's making outs. Still solid contact and not trying to pull everything.


Tim Anderson will be just fine.

TomBradley72
04-25-2019, 06:18 PM
No kidding. How odd that a guy regresses from hitting .440. No one saw that happening :o: :rolleyes:

And even if he's regressing as the stats are indicating, I still like what I'm seeing from him even when he's making outs. Still solid contact and not trying to pull everything.


Tim Anderson will be just fine.

#3 OPS among all major league starting shortstops- I'm happy with Tim Anderson.

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2019, 10:41 PM
#3 OPS among all major league starting shortstops- I'm happy with Tim Anderson.

I'm thrilled he and Moncada appear on track to solidy the left side of the IF for years to come. Think of how expensive that is.

blurry
04-26-2019, 08:56 AM
#3 OPS among all major league starting shortstops- I'm happy with Tim Anderson.

If he could walk more often I'd argue he'd be the best SS in all of baseball.

LoveYourSuit
04-26-2019, 10:10 AM
If he could walk more often I'd argue he'd be the best SS in all of baseball.

The thing with walking is if you have a team that sucks hitting behind you then it's irrelevant. I rather you slugg for yourself vs waiting for the next guy (who you know sucks and holding a bat).

If (and hopefully) when the Sox get good and they have less than 3 automatic outs in their lineup, that's when getting on-base will be a bit more important.