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Daver
09-13-2002, 05:30 PM
Frank Thomas ain't as bad as some might think. (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/playerrankings/DH)

yyz
09-13-2002, 06:06 PM
Good to see Frank getting some respect, but what really jumps out at me is what an undistinguished group of DHs the AL has. With any luck, Frank won't be narrowly beating out Aubrey Huff for 3rd place. He should be towering over these guys.

MisterB
09-13-2002, 06:17 PM
Also note that their #1 DH, Raul Ibanez, has only 121 AB as a DH (he has more AB's at each LF and 1B), Compared to Thomas and Burks who have 450+ ABs @ DH.

cornball
09-13-2002, 07:22 PM
At the same time is he worth 10MM on a team that wants to have a 45MM payroll, thats where the problem is.

Daver
09-13-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by cornball
At the same time is he worth 10MM on a team that wants to have a 45MM payroll, thats where the problem is.

Jerry Reinsdorf will get attacked by the press and factions of the owners if he cuts payroll after the MLBPA agreed to a luxury tax,it would make it obvious that some owners just pocket the check.I bet Michael Glass attempts to increase his payroll this year for the same reason.

guillen4life13
09-13-2002, 08:13 PM
you know i never noticed it, but next year frank is almost definitely gonna hit the 400 hr plateau. he's got an excellent chance at 500 dingers also. that should definitely put him in the hall.

Daver
09-13-2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
you know i never noticed it, but next year frank is almost definitely gonna hit the 400 hr plateau. he's got an excellent chance at 500 dingers also. that should definitely put him in the hall.

Don't be so sure of that,Harold Baines will be the first player with 1500 RBI to not get in the hall.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-13-2002, 09:17 PM
It's amazing how long I've carried a grudge with Ellis Burks. The Sox took a flyer on him and his bad back in 1993. They get him healthy again, win a division crown, and the guys pays them back by taking off for Colorado. WHAT A MERCENARY!

It's been ten seasons and the old fart is still hanging around. I want somebody to drill him everytime he steps to the plate.
:angry:

But other than that, I'm a rational guy.

:gulp:

Daver
09-13-2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


But other than that, I'm a rational guy.



Time to get back to the fryer,your having grease withdrawl.......

Lip Man 1
09-13-2002, 10:40 PM
Daver:

I'm surprised you haven't seen this (obviuosly since you haven't mentioned it). I posted this last week on some other sites. Reinsdorf according to published news reports SPECIFICALLY asked at the owners ratification meeting, if teams had to spend their revenue sharing income on player salary or acquistion.

He was told "no."

According to the wire services Reinsdorf then told the other owners they should "use the money to decrease their debt instead of spending it on players..."

I think we know where the Sox are headed

And as I said, in four years, when the Sox, Royals, Brewers, Padres etc are STILL garbage, the fans will know it's not the players screwing them.

George:

I recall Burks saying that he didn't resign with the Sox for two main reasons. One, they wouldn't give him the number of years he was looking for on a deal (typical Sox) and two his wife disliked intensly the Chicago school system and felt her children would be better off elsewhere. (as if they couldn't afford private education!)

Lip

Daver
09-13-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver:

I'm surprised you haven't seen this (obviuosly since you haven't mentioned it). I posted this last week on some other sites. Reinsdorf according to published news reports SPECIFICALLY asked at the owners ratification meeting, if teams had to spend their revenue sharing income on player salary or acquistion.

He was told "no."



I saw it,my next column mentions it.

Nellie_Fox
09-14-2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I recall Burks saying that he didn't resign with the Sox for two main reasons. One, they wouldn't give him the number of years he was looking for on a deal (typical Sox) and two his wife disliked intensly the Chicago school system and felt her children would be better off elsewhere. (as if they couldn't afford private education!)Lip And as if he couldn't afford to live in the suburb of his choice!

34 Inch Stick
09-14-2002, 01:00 PM
Daver, please do not compare Frank with Harold. I know you know the difference (among other things the 2 MVP's).

It should not suprise that Frank is one of the better DH's in the league. Taking a look at things from a disinterested perspective if we were told we were getting a player who would produce .250, 25, 90 we would be happy with it. We have just come to expect more out of Frank.

I will be happy to see him return to .300, 30, 120 form next year. A third MVP will certainly cement his HOF credentials.

Paulwny
09-14-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick


I will be happy to see him return to .300, 30, 120 form next year. A third MVP will certainly cement his HOF credentials.

It's a toss up, too many sport writers still refuse to vote for a player who spent most of his career as a dh.

MisterB
09-14-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by daver
Jerry Reinsdorf will get attacked by the press and factions of the owners if he cuts payroll after the MLBPA agreed to a luxury tax,it would make it obvious that some owners just pocket the check.I bet Michael Glass attempts to increase his payroll this year for the same reason.

Then again, maybe not...

Gammons sez (http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/0914/1431768.html) (for what that's worth):
Kansas City has cancelled its instructional league team ($250,000) to save cash, and owner David Glass wants GM Allard Baird to get from close to $50 million in payroll down below $40M. That likely means that Paul Byrd won't be back, and Baird may have trouble finding a taker for Joe Randa ($4.5M) or Michael Tucker($2.5M). Toronto, which similarly has shrinking revenues, is paying for its instructional league with cash picked up in deals for players like Dan Plesac, Scott Eyre and Pedro Borbon.

Yep, sure solved that 'competitive balance' problem, Bud... :angry:

Daver
09-14-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by MisterB



Yep, sure solved that 'competitive balance' problem, Bud... :angry:

It was a given before the strike was averted that the owners plan did nothing but serve their bottom line,that is the only purpose any kind of salary cap serves is to increase the owners profits.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-14-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Yep, sure solved that 'competitive balance' problem, Bud... :angry:

BINGO!!!

It was the owners who demanded ALL the concessions in this negotiation. The union opposed all of them, including the minimum salary.

So like a fox, the union compromises on the issues EVERYBODY knew the owners really wanted: a luxury tax and enhanced revenue sharing. SURPRISE!!!! The owners threw away the minimum payroll demand to grab the most money the players were offering on the issues they truly wanted!

Thus, the MLBPA has successfully revealed the hypocrisy of the owners' stated position: bringing competitive balance back to baseball through union concessions. The owners could have negotiated a minimum salary easilty--IF they had been willing to take less money on the luxury tax and revenue sharing. This of course, did not happen. *****! Explain that one, management apologists!

Kansas City and all the other sad sacks will be more pathetic than ever. The money the players gave the owners won't do one damned thing to make the sport more competitive. Competitive balance was never on ANYBODY'S agenda. Cry me a river for the owners threatening fans in Minnesota and Montreal simply to have a bargaining chip to get their way. JERKS!

Grabbing more money was the goal of BOTH sides. The fans got nothing for the heartache. Big surprise.

And expect MORE of this in the next CBA negotiation--not less. Another big surprise, eh?

Daver
09-14-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


And expect MORE of this in the next CBA negotiation--not less. Another big surprise, eh?

The next one will be even worse,if the owners of the teams like the Royals,Marlins,Devil Dogs,etc. do nothing to up their payroll in an attempt to compete the MLBPA will demand an end to the luxury tax as a concession from the owners,and they will have proof that it did nothing to improve competeive balance.

And the owners will not have the pressure of 9/11 to toss at the union next time,that was the main reason the players gave in IMO.

cornball
09-15-2002, 12:27 PM
Interesting enough to note C. Lee and Frank have very similar numbers YTD. OBP, HR, RBI ect......will one of them go....who has the best upside.

Personally I cant see Frank leaving, because he will have no takers even if the clause is activated.

RichH55
09-16-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by cornball
Interesting enough to note C. Lee and Frank have very similar numbers YTD. OBP, HR, RBI ect......will one of them go....who has the best upside.

Personally I cant see Frank leaving, because he will have no takers even if the clause is activated.

Well if the clause is activated and he stays that would be helpful from a payroll perspective and I don't see how the Frank situation can get all that much worse