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hold2dibber
09-12-2002, 09:40 AM
I was recently talking to a friend of mine who was born and raised in the Boston area. He opined that one of the reasons that the White Sox don't get as much attention and respect as one of the great old franchises in the sport (and when I say "great" I obviously am not talking about on-field performance) is because they switch uniforms too much (as compared, for instance, to the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs). Although I don't agree with his theory, it got me to thinking. Since I was born ('67), they have had, I believe, five different uniforms:

Late 60s/early 70s: Red Pin Stripes
Mid 70s/early 80s: Those crazy black and white softball uniforms
early/mid 80s: The ones they wore in '83
late 80s: White with red script
90s - present: Black pin stripes

Am I missing any? Has any other team changed uniforms as many times as the Sox in that period (and not only changed uniforms, but radically changed uniforms and team colors)?

This also got me to thinking about the contest in the early 80s (?) for the fans to pick a new Sox uniform. The winner was the '83 division winning uni. Does anyone have any ideas as to how one might get their hands on pictures of the finalists in that contest? I'd love to see what else we could have voted for.

Paulwny
09-12-2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Although I don't agree with his theory,

Agree, the theory is a stretch. The Tiger's home uniform hasn't gone through many changes and they also don't get much attention.

Procol Harum
09-12-2002, 10:58 AM
It is a goofy theory, but it is also true that the Sox have been perhaps the most prolific team in MLB history when it comes to changing their unis--the situation in the last 25-30 years has actually been more stable than it was. For decades they were doing some fool thing to the uniforms nearly every year--it was a glimpse into what might have been had Jerry Manuel been the Sox' fashion consultant instead of their manager. Even during the 60s they couldn't leave well enough alone, dumping the red trim on the classic '50s Sox pinstripe uniforms (on which the current uniform is patterned) in the early '60s in favor of an all-black look in '63 or '64, and then moving to a royal blue (UGH!) w/o the pinstripes in '69.

I know there was a color illustration I saw of all this that came out in the early or mid-90s and which I have seen a couple of times since. It documented Sox uniform changes from the early 1900s up through the current black pinstripes/silver piping look.

DVG
09-12-2002, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This also got me to thinking about the contest in the early 80s (?) for the fans to pick a new Sox uniform. The winner was the '83 division winning uni. Does anyone have any ideas as to how one might get their hands on pictures of the finalists in that contest? I'd love to see what else we could have voted for.

In "The White Sox Encyclopedia" by Richard Lindberg there is a
picture in back of the book (I don't remember the exact section)
of the uniforms that the fans voted on that year. They were all
butt-frickin' arse ugly, in my opinion. I remember wanting them
to go back to the old pinstripes back then.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2002, 01:02 PM
The book you are talking about is called "Baseball Uniforms Of The 20th Century by Marc Okkonen." (Rich Lindberg was a contributor as he helped Okkonen detail the Sox uniform history...)

The Sox haven't changed uniforms as much as people think. Granted they have changed more then the Yankees or Tigers but far less then teams like the Orioles, Indians, Athletics (who in 1962 has black sleeves for home and red sleeves for road games under their cut off tops!) and Astros just to name a few.

Since the "Golden Era" of Sox baseball began in 1951 they have had the following basic uniforms...

1951 through 1963, the "classic" black pinstripe look with red around the Sox logo. Road uniforms were basic gray, black with CHICAGO spelled out on the front.

Chuck Comiskey said these were a direct rip off of the Yankees uniforms. He told Lindberg in an interview that the Sox wanted to completely change their perception and attitude and that if you want to be the best (i.e. New York) you copy from the best.

1964 through 1966, home uniforms were white, black pinstripe. No more red trip color. Road uniforms were BLUE with darked blue trim. CHICAGO still spelled out in front.

1967 through 1968, home uniforms added black numerals on front of jersey. Road uniform change was the word Chicago written out in script (like the Dodgers had)

1969 Home uniform all white (no more pinstripes) with blue trim. Road uniform was a light gray, Chicago still spelled out in Dodger fashion in white. White trim.

1970 saw the road uniform base color changed to a little darker gray to make it easier to read.

1971 through 1975. Home uniform was white with red pinstripes, red trim colors, red shoes and red hat (God that was great looking!) Road uniform was light blue with red trim and accents. Chicago in Dodger style spelled out in front in red.

1976 through 1981 Home and Road uniforms were based on the early 1900's with large collars, and jersey that stayed outside of the pants. Colors were white and dark blue. Teams mixed and matched different combinations. CHICAGO spelled out in 1900 style lettering both home and away. (abominations!)

1982 through 1986 Home white uniforms with red / blue trim. S O X spelled out across the front. Road uniform was the same except the base color was gray.

1987 through mid September 1990 Home uniform white with dark blue/red trim. White Sox written out Dodger style. Road uniform the same except the front was written out Chicago in Dodger style (very classy!)

late September 1991 through today. Home uniform white with black pinstripes. Sox logo. Road uniform gray with Chicago spelled out Dodger style. Black Sunday alternate jersey. 2001 also saw special throwback Sunday home uniform modeled on the 1917 team.

Lip

DVG
09-12-2002, 01:17 PM
The book you are talking about is called "Baseball Uniforms Of The 20th Century by Marc Okkonen." (Rich Lindberg was a contributor as he helped Okkonen detail the Sox uniform history...)


There is also a picture of the uniforms from the "pick the Sox'
next uniform" contest in the White Sox Encyclopedia. Trust me,
I've seen it.

As for the 1964-66 era uniforms, I got into this with Nellie Fox a while back. Weren't the Sox home uniforms of that era NAVY BLUE pinstripes? Again, I refer to the documentation in the White Sox Encyclopedia.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2002, 01:28 PM
The sad truth for Sox Fans is uniform changes through the years have been used as one more cheap publicity stunt to get fans to come to the ballpark.

For example, Veeck took a pennant champion team from 1959 and added players' names to their uniforms the very next season--an outrageous move back in 1960. The first thing he did after buying the team in 1975 was change the uniforms to the infamous untucked pajamas in 1976, too.

John Allyn did the same trick after taking control from his brother in 1969--thus the red pinstripes of 1971. And so on and so forth.

The Sox have traditionally approached promotions with an attitude P.T. Barnum would appreciate. It has only been the last 12 years that the Sox' hyperactive uniform changes appear to have finally dissipated.

Let's wait and see. EVERYBODY is adding black to their uniforms these days, including today's opponent, the Royals. The moment black falls out of fashion, watch to see what the Sox do. I'm betting they change again.

hold2dibber
09-12-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The book you are talking about is called "Baseball Uniforms Of The 20th Century by Marc Okkonen." (Rich Lindberg was a contributor as he helped Okkonen detail the Sox uniform history...)

The Sox haven't changed uniforms as much as people think. Granted they have changed more then the Yankees or Tigers but far less then teams like the Orioles, Indians, Athletics (who in 1962 has black sleeves for home and red sleeves for road games under their cut off tops!) and Astros just to name a few.

Since the "Golden Era" of Sox baseball began in 1951 they have had the following basic uniforms...

1951 through 1963, the "classic" black pinstripe look with red around the Sox logo. Road uniforms were basic gray, black with CHICAGO spelled out on the front.

Chuck Comiskey said these were a direct rip off of the Yankees uniforms. He told Lindberg in an interview that the Sox wanted to completely change their perception and attitude and that if you want to be the best (i.e. New York) you copy from the best.

1964 through 1966, home uniforms were white, black pinstripe. No more red trip color. Road uniforms were BLUE with darked blue trim. CHICAGO still spelled out in front.

1967 through 1968, home uniforms added black numerals on front of jersey. Road uniform change was the word Chicago written out in script (like the Dodgers had)

1969 Home uniform all white (no more pinstripes) with blue trim. Road uniform was a light gray, Chicago still spelled out in Dodger fashion in white. White trim.

1970 saw the road uniform base color changed to a little darker gray to make it easier to read.

1971 through 1975. Home uniform was white with red pinstripes, red trim colors, red shoes and red hat (God that was great looking!) Road uniform was light blue with red trim and accents. Chicago in Dodger style spelled out in front in red.

1976 through 1981 Home and Road uniforms were based on the early 1900's with large collars, and jersey that stayed outside of the pants. Colors were white and dark blue. Teams mixed and matched different combinations. CHICAGO spelled out in 1900 style lettering both home and away. (abominations!)

1982 through 1986 Home white uniforms with red / blue trim. S O X spelled out across the front. Road uniform was the same except the base color was gray.

1987 through mid September 1990 Home uniform white with dark blue/red trim. White Sox written out Dodger style. Road uniform the same except the front was written out Chicago in Dodger style (very classy!)

late September 1991 through today. Home uniform white with black pinstripes. Sox logo. Road uniform gray with Chicago spelled out Dodger style. Black Sunday alternate jersey. 2001 also saw special throwback Sunday home uniform modeled on the 1917 team.

Lip

Thanks! (I'd also note tha tthose throwback Sunday home uniforms they wore last year really sharp).

doublem23
09-12-2002, 02:09 PM
By far, the best uniforms they wear are the pinstriped vests with the black undershirts.

They rock, yo.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2002, 02:41 PM
I was referring to Procol Harum's book question.

Lip

ChiSoxBobette
09-12-2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I was recently talking to a friend of mine who was born and raised in the Boston area. He opined that one of the reasons that the White Sox don't get as much attention and respect as one of the great old franchises in the sport (and when I say "great" I obviously am not talking about on-field performance) is because they switch uniforms too much (as compared, for instance, to the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs). Although I don't agree with his theory, it got me to thinking. Since I was born ('67), they have had, I believe, five different uniforms:

Late 60s/early 70s: Red Pin Stripes
Mid 70s/early 80s: Those crazy black and white softball uniforms
early/mid 80s: The ones they wore in '83
late 80s: White with red script
90s - present: Black pin stripes

Am I missing any? Has any other team changed uniforms as many times as the Sox in that period (and not only changed
uniforms, but radically changed uniforms and team colors)?

This also got me to thinking about the contest in the early 80s (?) for the fans to pick a new Sox uniform. The winner was the '83 division winning uni. Does anyone have any ideas as to how one might get their hands on pictures of the finalists in that contest? I'd love to see what else we could have voted for.

flubs,flubs - Those uniforms are butt ugly(anything flub is butt ugly)
By far the best looking uniforms the White Sox wore in the past were the red pin-stripe.The uni's the White Sox wear now the black pin-stripe reg. uni & vest version are very professional looking.
My favorite was last years throw back uni worn during Sunday games.
Go White Sox
:)

guillen4life13
09-12-2002, 04:40 PM
my favorite one (that i've seen them actually play in) is the black/white cutout that they wear every once in a while now.

Foulke You
09-12-2002, 06:10 PM
I like the current design the best. You can't go wrong with black, white, and silver as your colors. I don't agree with that Boston guy's theory at all. Look at the uniforms the Cubs don with the cute little rat running through the big red "C" on the chest. How traditional! I think the current Sox unis are very traditional looking especially when they pull the baseball socks up to the knees a la Choice.

The all black alternate tops are my favorite (Good Guys Wear Black!) and I wish they'd wear them for all the road games although on hot summer days I can understand why they don't want to wear all black. The home white (vest or jersey) w/stripes are fantastic too. I hope they never change these jerseys. They've had these jerseys for 12 years now. If it ain't broke...


Lip Man- One other nitpicky uniform note, the current home uniforms made a cameo appearance in the last 2 games at Old Comiskey Park in September 1990 (not '91) as a sneak peek to what they were going to wear at the new park. Another sidenote is that the current home white w/pinstripes didn't feature names on the back of the jersey until the mid '90s.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2002, 10:05 PM
Lip Man- One other nitpicky uniform note, the current home uniforms made a cameo appearance in the last 2 games at Old Comiskey Park in September 1990 (not '91) as a sneak peek to what they were going to wear at the new park. Another sidenote is that the current home white w/pinstripes didn't feature names on the back of the jersey until the mid '90s

Sorry that was a typo.

Lip

ihatethecubs
09-12-2002, 10:28 PM
the uniforms they wore in the mid 60's were navy blue, not black.
and it is really annoying how all these teams now are wearing black. the sox were the only team with black alternate jerseys in 1991, now the royals, a's, mets, marlins, rockies, astros, pirates, giants, and d-backs have black alternate jerseys. actually, i think the sox started the whole alternate jersey thing to begin with.

Procol Harum
09-12-2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by ihatethecubs
the uniforms they wore in the mid 60's were navy blue, not black.


I don't wanna get in a pee-pee match wit' you or DVG, but I hafta side with Nellie on this one--the Sox' home unis in the mid-1960s were black pinstripes, not navy.

Procol Harum
09-12-2002, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I the current home uniforms made a cameo appearance in the last 2 games at Old Comiskey Park in September 1990 (not '91) as a sneak peek to what they were going to wear at the new park.

A nitpick to your nitpick: it was the entire last three game series; I was at the third to last game in Old Comiskey and the Sox wore the black pinstripes that night as well. It weirded me out at the time, with it being the last time for me in the park and to see the team arrayed in unis that were a near match to those of my "boys of summer" Sox teams of the '60s--it felt like being in a time warp.

TornLabrum
09-12-2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
I don't wanna get in a pee-pee match wit' you or DVG, but I hafta side with Nellie on this one--the Sox' home unis in the mid-1960s were black pinstripes, not navy.

Here's what Okkonen has to say about the '50s and '60s uniforms. My personal memories go back to my first Sox home game in 1956 and coincide.

"...[A] new image was in order for the 1949 White Sox. The uniform design did away with all piping and changed the primary trim color to BLACK....By 1951...[t]he tasteful and trendy new uniforms seemed to fit the new awakening.

"For 1951, pinstripes were added to the home whites as well as a touch of red trim here and there....This uniform ensemble was continued thru [sic] the decade....

"By the mid sixties, the uniforms still retained the look of the memorable fifties but the basic trim color was once again BLUE...."

[All words in all caps are printed that way in the original.]

Another quick note on the 1969-70 uniforms that I didn't catch here (and if I missed it somewhere, I apologize): The stirrups were white and the sanitary hose were blue.

With the kind of memories I'm seeing here, I now have no doubt that Bob Elson said "traveling medicine show."

Procol Harum
09-12-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
[B] Here's what Okkonen has to say...

"By the mid sixties, the uniforms still retained the look of the memorable fifties but the basic trim color was once again BLUE...."[i][QUOTE]

Another quick note on the 1969-70 uniforms that I didn't catch here (and if I missed it somewhere, I apologize): The stirrups were white and the sanitary hose were blue.


There can only be one explanation....Okkonen is in league with Satan. :gulp:

I vas dere, doggone it, and I've seen pikchers since then and them uniforms was black, dagnabit!

Yep, the Sox went to a shade of (shudder) royal blue in '69 and '70

TornLabrum
09-13-2002, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
There can only be one explanation....Okkonen is in league with Satan. :gulp:

I vas dere, doggone it, and I've seen pikchers since then and them uniforms was black, dagnabit!

Yep, the Sox went to a shade of (shudder) royal blue in '69 and '70

Problem is, them pikchers was in black an' watt.

The color was navy blue through '68.

Another uniform note from the second Veeck era. Somebody early on called the dark pants and trim (on the white tops and white pants) black. As someone else mentioned, those were also navy blue.

That really does stand to reason. The pants are why Nancy always played "Forever in Blue Jeans" during that period.

kermittheefrog
09-13-2002, 03:13 AM
The Astros are anothe team of mani unis. I think they've made 3 uniform changes in the last five years.

hold2dibber
09-13-2002, 09:31 AM
All time ugliest uniforms:

The Astros "bruised fruit" multi-colored nightmares from the '80s, or the Sox "pajamas/softball unis" from the laste '70s? Icky bad.

Lip Man 1
09-13-2002, 12:30 PM
A nitpick to your nitpick: it was the entire last three game series; I was at the third to last game in Old Comiskey and the Sox wore the black pinstripes that night as well. It weirded me out at the time, with it being the last time for me in the park and to see the team arrayed in unis that were a near match to those of my "boys of summer" Sox teams of the '60s--it felt like being in a time warp.

Procol: A nitpick to nitpick with your nitpick...(Huh?)

The Sox actually wore the "new" uniforms the ENTIRE last home stand, games against Minnesota, Milwaukee and Seattle.

I have video from all of those games in my 1990 compilation tape (two hours).

Lip

Procol Harum
09-13-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Procol: A nitpick to nitpick with your nitpick...(Huh?)

The Sox actually wore the "new" uniforms the ENTIRE last home stand, games against Minnesota, Milwaukee and Seattle.

I have video from all of those games in my 1990 compilation tape (two hours).

Lip

I buy that--one of the better moves the Reinsdorfian manifestation of this organization has made in it's star-crossed reign. We may never make the World Series, but at least we look good while we're not there... uh, yeah... :o:

PaleHoseGeorge
09-13-2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
I buy that--one of the better moves the Reinsdorfian manifestation of this organization has made in it's star-crossed reign. We may never make the World Series, but at least we look good while we're not there... uh, yeah... :o:

As I understand it from a certain person who has worked for the Sox and is in a position to know, the 50's-inspired uniform (black and white) was one of several the team considered before the 1987 season. Several jersey mock ups were on display in a locked room inside the team's offices at Old Comiskey.

Asked which one was his favorite, he quickly picked the 50's retro look. So naturally the Sox introduced the script "White Sox" version instead. It would be four more years before the silver and black unis debuted.

This outfit always needs 2-3 tries to get it right.

:gulp:

Lip Man 1
09-13-2002, 10:43 PM
George:

I know EXACTLY who you are talking about!

Lip

Max Power
09-13-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
1982 through 1986 Home white uniforms with red / blue trim. S O X spelled out across the front. Road uniform was the same except the base color was gray.

I saw P. Diddy wear the road uniform in one of his music videos and I've seen people at games and around town in it. I think it has achieved the "so uncool it's cool" looks.

Ol Aches & Pains
09-17-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
All time ugliest uniforms:

The Astros "bruised fruit" multi-colored nightmares from the '80s, or the Sox "pajamas/softball unis" from the laste '70s? Icky bad.

Let us not forget the San Diego Padres' brown and yellow "rotten banana" unis of the mid to late '70s.

mike squires
09-18-2002, 12:42 AM
while browsing through an old antique/baseball card shop in kentucky over the summer, i came across a 1982 sports illustrated cover of greg luzinski. they have the contest uniforms in there as well.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-18-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by michael penny
while browsing through an old antique/baseball card shop in kentucky over the summer, i came across a 1982 sports illustrated cover of greg luzinski. they have the contest uniforms in there as well.

You know, I think I've got that issue. If so, I'll post the other contestants here.

I remember they were all godawful designs. Even the winning entry was modified and toned down a bit. The Sox have had some funky uniforms through the years.

Foulke You
09-18-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
A nitpick to your nitpick: it was the entire last three game series; I was at the third to last game in Old Comiskey and the Sox wore the black pinstripes that night as well. It weirded me out at the time, with it being the last time for me in the park and to see the team arrayed in unis that were a near match to those of my "boys of summer" Sox teams of the '60s--it felt like being in a time warp.

Procol: A nitpick to nitpick with your nitpick...(Huh?)

The Sox actually wore the "new" uniforms the ENTIRE last home stand, games against Minnesota, Milwaukee and Seattle.

I have video from all of those games in my 1990 compilation tape (two hours).

Lip

My original nitpick stands double nitpicked and corrected :D: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Sox start the whole retro is cool trend in baseball as far as uniforms go? I remember for a while there the Sox uniforms and hats in the early '90s were the #1 selling team in MLB. Then every team copied and had their own retro look. Perhaps the Sox saved baseball from the dreadful unis of the '80s?

In the early '90s the Sox hat became cool to wear even if you weren't a fan (which rather annoyed me). Much like the NY Yankee hat is now. Even Dr. Dre wore the Sox hat in one of his most famous videos and included it in the lyrics to his gangsta rap song that was popular when I was in high school called "Ain't nuttin but a G thang". "...got my chrome (gun) to the side of this White Sox hat". Not exactly the PR the Sox were looking for but it is indicitave of how popular the hats and uniforms were back then.

:reinsy
"If gangsta rappers want to promote our merchandise then more power to 'em"

:gallas
"Yes! Bring your crips and bloods bandanas to the park and get in for half price with the purchase of P Diddy's new album!"

Chisox353014
09-18-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by michael penny
while browsing through an old antique/baseball card shop in kentucky over the summer, i came across a 1982 sports illustrated cover of greg luzinski. they have the contest uniforms in there as well.

I had that SI as a kid. If memory serves, there was one entry that had beige and (I think) light blue as the main colors. Thank the lord they didn't pick that one.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-18-2002, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
I had that SI as a kid. If memory serves, there was one entry that had beige and (I think) light blue as the main colors. Thank the lord they didn't pick that one.

EUREKA! I found it!

Yes, the SI issue of 6/8/81 has Greg Luzinski on the cover. Inside it has three of the other designs submitted by fans and professional designers for the new Sox uniforms that debuted in 1982.

U-G-L-Y. I'll put this up later.

There also is a truly priceless photo of the new Sox co-owners, a youthful Eddie Einhorn and Jerry Reinsdorf, looking very hip arm to arm, with the original Monster scoreboard in the background. I'll publish that one, too.

Yeesh...