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doublem23
09-10-2002, 09:58 PM
Remember the good times?

I sure do.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/poweralley?season=2002&week=6

whitesoxwilkes
09-10-2002, 10:47 PM
best quote from that article...from the d'backs (ranked 6th) blurb:

The Big Unit's great and all but he's no Josh Fogg, the best no-name fantasy pickup of all-time

cheeses_h_rice
09-10-2002, 10:48 PM
:hitless

I'd like to take a bow for my stellar contributions to this prestigious honor.

Now where my cone at?

doublem23
09-10-2002, 10:51 PM
Actually, I like this one (about the Twins)....

Have scored (168) only 11 more runs than they've allowed (157). Overrated!!

guillen4life13
09-10-2002, 11:20 PM
i really hate to say it, but it seems we were the overrated ones. doesn't life suck?

Lip Man 1
09-11-2002, 12:17 AM
Remember the good times?

Yea, 1961 through 1967 was great, so was 1981 through 1983 and 1990 through 1994.

Lip

duke of dorwood
09-11-2002, 08:46 AM
The early 70's, with Dick Allen ,thru the Hitmen of '77 Those were good times too.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2002, 01:26 PM
I didn't mention them because they were flukes...one hit wonders, much like the 2000 club that so many fans thought justified the "White Flag Trade".

LOL

Speaking of Allen, my interview with Mike Andrews will be up in early October and I also sent to George a tremendous story on Dick Allen that was originally published in SABR Magazine during the strike of 94. The author, a baseball scout and friend of fine, sent it to me with permission for WSI to run it.

The story is incredible because the author knew Allen and spent time speaking with Roland Hemond, Chuck Tanner and so on. The story revealed some previously unknown things about Allen's time with the Sox.

An incredible piece of work! I don't know when George is going to run it, you probably should ask him.

Lip
Lip

doublem23
09-11-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I didn't mention them because they were flukes...one hit wonders, much like the 2000 club that so many fans thought justified the "White Flag Trade".

Well, I still don't consider the 2000 season a fluke. Rather, that was a solid, young developing team that was ravaged by pathetic management, both on the field and off.

Had the 2000 Sox had a mildly competent field staff and an intelligent front office that was devoted to winning, I seriously believe that they'd be legitimate World Series contenders right now. That team had oodles of talent, both at the show and in the minor leagues, and I'll argue that point until I'm blue in the face.

Calling the 2000 Champs a fluke takes away from the players. Calling them victims of off-the-field stupidity is what they really are/where.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Well, I still don't consider the 2000 season a fluke. Rather, that was a solid, young developing team that was ravaged by pathetic management, both on the field and off.

Had the 2000 Sox had a mildly competent field staff and an intelligent front office that was devoted to winning, I seriously believe that they'd be legitimate World Series contenders right now. That team had oodles of talent, both at the show and in the minor leagues, and I'll argue that point until I'm blue in the face.

Calling the 2000 Champs a fluke takes away from the players. Calling them victims of off-the-field stupidity is what they really are/where.

The nucleus of the 2000 team was champion-caliber. Our pitching held up and we got a career year from Herbert Perry. Had we simply put Crede at 3B and spent the money wasted on Sandy Alomar and Royce Clayton into acquiring another front-line pitcher, we might still be contenders. It was the devastation to our pitching staff in 2001 that sank the Sox. After Buehrle we had nothing but question marks in 2002, too. Even KW's band-aid, David Wells, ended up on the DL and off the team.

After 22 seasons of Reinsdorf ownership, I'm convinced nothing will be done to address obvious roster needs. If JR does anything at all, it will be on the cheap and half-hearted--like trading 3 pitchers for Todd Ritchie.

That's why I'm convinced even this rebuilding phase is ultimately doomed. The Sox simply won't make the necessary moves to fill the holes and build the team up to championship caliber.

Sorry folks, I've got history on my side here.

RichH55
09-11-2002, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The nucleus of the 2000 team was champion-caliber. Our pitching held up and we got a career year from Herbert Perry. Had we simply put Crede at 3B and spent the money wasted on Sandy Alomar and Royce Clayton into acquiring another front-line pitcher, we might still be contenders. It was the devastation to our pitching staff in 2001 that sank the Sox. After Buehrle we had nothing but question marks in 2002, too. Even KW's band-aid, David Wells, ended up on the DL and off the team.

After 22 seasons of Reinsdorf ownership, I'm convinced nothing will be done to address obvious roster needs. If JR does anything at all, it will be on the cheap and half-hearted--like trading 3 pitchers for Todd Ritchie.

That's why I'm convinced even this rebuilding phase is ultimately doomed. The Sox simply won't make the necessary moves to fill the holes and build the team up to championship caliber.

Sorry folks, I've got history on my side here.

Well Jerry has spent on good players before, he is never going to be Steinbrenner out there, but he shouldnt be KC either

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2002, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Well Jerry has spent on good players before, he is never going to be Steinbrenner out there, but he shouldnt be KC either

I'm simply measuring Reinsdorf on tangible results. Steinbrenner's Yankees have won multiple championships, but suggesting that kind of spending is required to win championships is not true.

Kansas City won a championship in 1985.
Minnesota won a championship in 1987 and 1991.
Oakland won a championship in 1989.
Toronto won championships in 1992 and 1993.
Detroit won a championship in 1984.
Baltimore won a championship in 1983.
Milwaukee won a pennant in 1982.
Boston won a pennant in 1986.
Cleveland won pennants in 1995 and 1997.

The Sox keep company with Tampa Bay, Anaheim, Texas, and Seattle as teams that have won nothing the past 22 seasons. In fact, Reinsdorf hasn't even come close. At least all these other teams can point to expansion and multiple ownership changes. What excuse can JR make? Not enough Diamond Suite revenue at publicly-built New Comiskey?

This has become a bad joke on Sox Fans. Get him out of here!
:angry:

WinningUgly!
09-11-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The nucleus of the 2000 team was champion-caliber. Our pitching held up and we got a career year from Herbert Perry. Had we simply put Crede at 3B and spent the money wasted on Sandy Alomar and Royce Clayton into acquiring another front-line pitcher, we might still be contenders. It was the devastation to our pitching staff in 2001 that sank the Sox. After Buehrle we had nothing but question marks in 2002, too. Even KW's band-aid, David Wells, ended up on the DL and off the team.

After 22 seasons of Reinsdorf ownership, I'm convinced nothing will be done to address obvious roster needs. If JR does anything at all, it will be on the cheap and half-hearted--like trading 3 pitchers for Todd Ritchie.

That's why I'm convinced even this rebuilding phase is ultimately doomed. The Sox simply won't make the necessary moves to fill the holes and build the team up to championship caliber.

Sorry folks, I've got history on my side here.

Totally agree...except for the Herb Perry career year part. He has 21 HR & 71 RBI this season. I'd call 2000 a break-out year, followed by a down year in '01 because of lack of playing time.

hold2dibber
09-11-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Well, I still don't consider the 2000 season a fluke. Rather, that was a solid, young developing team that was ravaged by pathetic management, both on the field and off.

Had the 2000 Sox had a mildly competent field staff and an intelligent front office that was devoted to winning, I seriously believe that they'd be legitimate World Series contenders right now. That team had oodles of talent, both at the show and in the minor leagues, and I'll argue that point until I'm blue in the face.

Calling the 2000 Champs a fluke takes away from the players. Calling them victims of off-the-field stupidity is what they really are/where.

To an extent, I agree that the 2000 champs were a fluke in that the division crown was won, largely, upon the remarkable pitching of Eldred and Baldwin in the first half of the year. When those guys broke down in the second half, the team was, IIRC, about a .500 team but had enough of a lead from the first half to withstand the Indians' second half surge.

On the other hand, the nucleus certainly was there to become year-in-year out contenders, but KW misfired badly on the Alomar and Clayton acquisitions and on failing to pick up additional pitching to off-set the inevitable decline/injury of Eldred and JB. It should have been clear to him that counting on Eldred and JB to replicate, in 2001, the success they had in the first half (and first half alone) in 2000, was not so smart.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2002, 07:06 PM
Calling the 2000 Champs a fluke takes away from the players. Calling them victims of off-the-field stupidity is what they really are/where.



Gang

I realize it's just a degree of semantics, but regardless of the fact that the Sox had incompetent management (which they do), players having career years (which guys like Perry, Parque, Sirotka, Baldwin and Eldred did) or injuries, the fact remains that in 2001 the team barely reached .500 and this year they probably won't even hit that. (Unless they go 11-6 in the last 17 games)

To me that signifies a "fluke" a team that for whatever reason did really well one year and fell apart the next.

The Sox of 1951 through 1967 always had winning seasons and 75% of the time were in an actual pennant race, ditto for the time period from 1981 through 1983 and again in 1990 through 1994 (although for all intents and purposes they weren't in the 92 race) that's why I said those were the "golden days" and why I don't consider 72 , 77 and 00 in that same category. (Granted I had a lot of fun those years!)

Lip

doublem23
09-11-2002, 08:28 PM
Speaking of good times, they just showed the 1993 clincher on FSN.

Man, that's one of the first things I remember about being a Sox fan. GOOD times.

kermittheefrog
09-11-2002, 09:03 PM
The 2000 team wasn't a fluke, Kenny just screwed up everything we had that was good.

doublem23
09-11-2002, 09:05 PM
Thats what I've been sayin'.

Chisox_cali
09-11-2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Speaking of good times, they just showed the 1993 clincher on FSN.

Man, that's one of the first things I remember about being a Sox fan. GOOD times.

Damn, I always miss that one on the rare occasion that they show on ESPN Classic, like when they have the Classic Chicago weekend or whatever. I wish I had a tape of that.