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View Full Version : Cleatless Royce Clayton


MikeKreevich
09-10-2002, 01:02 PM
Read all about it. The straw that broke the camels back.
www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/102sd4.htm

ChiSoxBobette
09-10-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
Read all about it. The straw that broke the camels back.
www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/102sd4.htm
He may have set a francise record for a s.s. but I was at a lot of games last year and this year and don't remember the choice ever throwing anyone out from deep in the hole at s.s. and a lot of the balls he made half hearted attempts at that then went for hits really helped that francise record. To put it mildly he's not even close to being in the same s.s. class as little Louie. This year he might have had a pretty good fielding precentage but watching him this year I saw Pauly at 1st save royce on throws in the dirt plenty of times this year. If he's all that great I have'nt seen any other team breaking down the door to get the guy, thats because he's cancer.
Go White Sox
Royce THE CHOICE Clayton - BYE!

LongDistanceFan
09-10-2002, 03:36 PM
where are ALL the clayton backers now!!!!!!

those that kept on saying that clayton was not a tool, that we were blowing things out of proportion etc........

Nellie_Fox
09-10-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
where are ALL the clayton backers now!!!!!!

those that kept on saying that clayton was not a tool, that we were blowing things out of proportion etc........ The problem has always seemed to me that the Clayton Haters made everything a zero-sum game. If you didn't hate everything about him, if you didn't agree that there were no redeeming factors about him, then you were a Clayton backer.

I probaby fell into your Clayton backer category, because I would argue with those who said he was "Buddy Lee" with no range. Strictly defensively, I still think he is more skilled than Valentin. That doesn't mean I thought Clayton was great.

My point was it was all or nothing with Clayton; few of the Clayton haters could see any shade of gray about the guy. I'll shed no tears that he's gone, but I won't change my position.

duke of dorwood
09-10-2002, 04:29 PM
:hitless

I'm so good I could play short in flip-flops. So what's wrong with that?

Kilroy
09-10-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
My point was it was all or nothing with Clayton; few of the Clayton haters could see any shade of gray about the guy. I'll shed no tears that he's gone, but I won't change my position.

Exactly. I thought he never should have been brought here, and said so at the time. But he wasn't the sole reason the Sox have been terrible the last 2 seasons, and the way the team was playing, it was stupid to be focusing on the poor hitting in the #9 slot. There were larger issues.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-10-2002, 07:22 PM
What I find interesting is Cowley's comments regarding Manuel's strategy in the ninth inning of Sunday's game. We scored four runs and came back to win largely because of walks and Frank's dinger.

So what does Fearless Leader intend to do? Put Royce in to lay down a bunt! Great! Let's have a two-out inning!

Maybe that four-run ninth ought to be remembered as "the tennis shoes" game.

:hitless
"I can only hit the ball. I can't help if they catch 'em."

:jaime
"Exactly! I can only pitch. I can't hit for the guys--and one run is not going to do it!"

:fans
"Hooray! They're gone!!!!"

yyz
09-10-2002, 08:06 PM
Somebody asked this on baseballprimer.com, and forgive me if it has already been discussed: Is the Joe Cowley who writes for the Southtown the same Joe Cowley who pitched for the Sox in '86 and struck out the first seven batters he faced in a game?

Foulke You
09-10-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Exactly. I thought he never should have been brought here, and said so at the time. But he wasn't the sole reason the Sox have been terrible the last 2 seasons, and the way the team was playing, it was stupid to be focusing on the poor hitting in the #9 slot. There were larger issues.

Was Royce the only thing wrong with the Sox? Certainly not. However, Royce was the poster boy for everything that was wrong with the Sox. Reasons why I and many others hated Royce:

1. Light hitting shortstop who only hit after the team was buried to give the illusion of being an average hitter by getting up to .250. I would have rather had Garland and Buehrle bat in the 9 spot during both 1st halves of 2001 and 2002.
2. Brought a big ego and a bad attitude into the clubhouse
3. Was brought in to be a defensive fix for Valentin who supposedly "hurt" the team in 2000. Instead we get Royce who camped out behind 2nd base to get everything up the middle because he had an accurate but suprisingly weak throwing arm, hence his field position. He knew he couldn't throw from deep in the hole. And the Sox were still brutal on defense after Royce was brought in so there wasn't a single plus to Royce playing except Reinsy not having to pay a guy to ride the bench.
4. Fielding % record skewed by a generous home scorekeeper
5. His mere prescence on the team stunted the growth and emergence of Joe Crede who languished in AAA because of him.
6. Jerry Manuel's continued refusal to bench the guy even though he was clearly hurting the team. Special treatment and a nice long leash for a KW guy while guys Foulke and Valentin get shafted.

It could've been overblown but there is no denying the negative impact he had on the team and I identify with the fans frustration over Royce. Hence the celebration of us Choice haters here at WSI at Royce leaving town. :D:

BuehrleACE56
09-11-2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
he wasn't the sole reason the Sox have been terrible the last 2 seasons, and the way the team was playing, it was stupid to be focusing on the poor hitting in the #9 slot. There were larger issues.

this is exactly it. Clayton was a cancer in the clubhouse. no doubt about it, especially now when he wasn't playing and kept whining. he wasn't a great all-around player, but defensively he was very very good. sometimes he did a buddy lee impression or threw it a little off the mark, but (a franchise record amount of the time) anything hit to him was an out. period. the same can't be said for jose valentin. we've also seen royce make some stellar plays. so he didn't go over-the-top from deep in the hole like Omar Vizquel or flip it backwards to home like Derek Jeter, but he turned some double plays and threw out some runners with quite a few amazing flicks and tricks. his offense was crap before the all star break every year, but like Kilroy said, we can't blame all of our problems on an a-hole who can't hit in the #9 hole. there are much much bigger issues to focus on in our organization. i think those should be the focus from now on, not continued choice bashing.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2002, 12:27 AM
Somebody asked this on baseballprimer.com, and forgive me if it has already been discussed: Is the Joe Cowley who writes for the Southtown the same Joe Cowley who pitched for the Sox in '86 and struck out the first seven batters he faced in a game?

No, this Cowley is from Ohio.

By the way, Cowley only lasted four innings and took the loss in that game. He also threw one of the most bizarre no hitters later against California. He allowed one run, walked eight but didn't give up any hits.

Lip

yyz
09-11-2002, 03:00 PM
Thanks, Lip