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kermittheefrog
09-02-2002, 07:32 PM
I said around the beginning of the season that while I wasn't sure yet if Nardi was a good or bad pitching coach it seemed that he only had success with finesse guys like Buehrle and Foulke while power guys like Garland, Wells and Wright struggled.

Well we all know Kip has become a good pitcher in Pittsburgh.

In August, the first month with no Nardi Garland had a 3.23 ERA and 26 Ks in 30.2 innings and we all know Garland never struck anybody out before.

Dan Wright had an ERA of 6.17 in August mostly due to 2 disaster starts against Oakland and Anaheim but he struck out 28 in 35 IP. Encouraging.

Should be interesting to take a look at things in September. Hey maybe Rauch struggled so much not because of the injury but because he started the season with the big club listening to Nardi? :cool:

Chisox_cali
09-02-2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I said around the beginning of the season that while I wasn't sure yet if Nardi was a good or bad pitching coach it seemed that he only had success with finesse guys like Buehrle and Foulke while power guys like Garland, Wells and Wright struggled.

Well we all know Kip has become a good pitcher in Pittsburgh.

In August, the first month with no Nardi Garland had a 3.23 ERA and 26 Ks in 30.2 innings and we all know Garland never struck anybody out before.

Dan Wright had an ERA of 6.17 in August mostly due to 2 disaster starts against Oakland and Anaheim but he struck out 28 in 35 IP. Encouraging.

Should be interesting to take a look at things in September. Hey maybe Rauch struggled so much not because of the injury but because he started the season with the big club listening to Nardi? :cool:

Interesting stuff, makes since though. I hope they give Rauch some starts, JM said that he was gonna pitch out of the bullpen. I would have Rauch as Biddles back-up, so If Rocky gets rocked than Jon can come in with some long relief/start, and Hopefully he'll get some starts this month.

Vsahajpal
09-02-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I said around the beginning of the season that while I wasn't sure yet if Nardi was a good or bad pitching coach it seemed that he only had success with finesse guys like Buehrle and Foulke while power guys like Garland, Wells and Wright struggled.

Well we all know Kip has become a good pitcher in Pittsburgh.

In August, the first month with no Nardi Garland had a 3.23 ERA and 26 Ks in 30.2 innings and we all know Garland never struck anybody out before.


3 of those August starts have come against the Devil Rays and Blue Jays, who rank 2nd & 3rd in the AL in strikeouts. 2 of those starts have come against the Rays, who lead the American League in strikeouts after the All-Star break.

RedPinStripes
09-02-2002, 08:14 PM
Just blame Nardi anyway!

RKMeibalane
09-02-2002, 09:19 PM
I think it's going to take more than a few quality starts to get all of the negative Nardi influence out of the minds of the Sox pitchers.

:nardi

"I don't know anything."

kermittheefrog
09-02-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
3 of those August starts have come against the Devil Rays and Blue Jays, who rank 2nd & 3rd in the AL in strikeouts. 2 of those starts have come against the Rays, who lead the American League in strikeouts after the All-Star break.

Still dude, it's an accomplishment for Garland who strikes out 5 a game.

whitesoxaddict
09-02-2002, 09:57 PM
First of all, Buerhle credits most of his improvement to David Wells' tutoring, and parque did the same before he went down with an injury that year. AS for Garland's strike outs, they were increasing to respectable levels the entire summer.

34 Inch Stick
09-03-2002, 08:51 AM
I also think it is a little premature to think that Wells and Fogg have become high quality pitchers. The ERA's and loss totals are starting to rise.

I still hate Nardi.

hold2dibber
09-03-2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I also think it is a little premature to think that Wells and Fogg have become high quality pitchers. The ERA's and loss totals are starting to rise.

I still hate Nardi.

Below is a link comparing this season's stats for K. Wells, Fogg, D. Wright and Garland. Wells has had, by far, the best year. And Fogg has, to date, had the second best year. But if you look closely at the numbers, I think there is reason to think that Garland and Wright will be every bit as good as those guys in the future.

Fogg/Garland/K. Wells/Wright 2002 comparison (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section2=12&statSet2=1&statType=2&sortByStat=Last_Name&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2002&baseballScope=mlb&isCompare=true&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=1&box1=XXXX279782chaX&box2=XXXX150337pitX&box3=XXXX216106chaX&checkBoxTotal=0&playerLocator=fogg)

hold2dibber
09-03-2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Below is a link comparing this season's stats for K. Wells, Fogg, D. Wright and Garland. Wells has had, by far, the best year. And Fogg has, to date, had the second best year. But if you look closely at the numbers, I think there is reason to think that Garland and Wright will be every bit as good as those guys in the future.

Fogg/Garland/K. Wells/Wright 2002 comparison (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_player_stats.jsp?section2=12&statSet2=1&statType=2&sortByStat=Last_Name&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2002&baseballScope=mlb&isCompare=true&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=1&box1=XXXX279782chaX&box2=XXXX150337pitX&box3=XXXX216106chaX&checkBoxTotal=0&playerLocator=fogg)

Also, note that Fogg and Wells are both 25 whereas Garland and Wright are 22 and 24 respectively. So maybe Garland and Wright just need a little more seasoning to catch up to Fogg and Wells.

One of the most interesting things in the comparison is that in almost the exact same number of innings, Wright and Fogg have given up almost the exact same number of hits and walks. Yet Fogg's ERA is more than 1.00 less than Wright's! That suggests to me that Wright simply needs to learn how to get the big outs, a skill Fogg may have already acquired (or maybe he's just been much luckier than D. Wright).

34 Inch Stick
09-03-2002, 09:23 AM
Dibber, they may end up being as good as Wells and Fogg. I am just not sold on Wells and Fogg being anything great. I think Fogg and Garland will probably end the year with very similar numbers. Wells started out hot, but he may end up with an ERA over 4.

I like Garland. I don't like Wright. I hate Nardi.

hold2dibber
09-03-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Dibber, they may end up being as good as Wells and Fogg. I am just not sold on Wells and Fogg being anything great. I think Fogg and Garland will probably end the year with very similar numbers. Wells started out hot, but he may end up with an ERA over 4.

I like Garland. I don't like Wright. I hate Nardi.

I wasn't necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with your post - I just thought it would be interesting to look at the performance of all four of these guys at once.

I personally think Kip Wells will be a good middle of the rotation starters for the next 5-6 years; a Kevin Tapani kind of guy. I think Garland has a higher ceiling than that, but I'm still not sure if he'll get there. Fogg knows how to pitch and I think he'll be a decent back of the rotation or above average middle relief/set up guy. I have no idea what to think of Wright's future - he might turn into a really good pitcher, he might flame out entirely.

Randar68
09-03-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Also, note that Fogg and Wells are both 25 whereas Garland and Wright are 22 and 24 respectively. So maybe Garland and Wright just need a little more seasoning to catch up to Fogg and Wells.

One of the most interesting things in the comparison is that in almost the exact same number of innings, Wright and Fogg have given up almost the exact same number of hits and walks. Yet Fogg's ERA is more than 1.00 less than Wright's! That suggests to me that Wright simply needs to learn how to get the big outs, a skill Fogg may have already acquired (or maybe he's just been much luckier than D. Wright).

Please also note that at minimum, every three innings, Fogg and Wells face nearly an automatic out. The NL has a significant affect on a pitcher's ERA. On top of that, Pittsburg plays much better defense.

Randar68
09-03-2002, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I have no idea what to think of Wright's future - he might turn into a really good pitcher, he might flame out entirely.

At the start of last season, he was in AA. Perspective, folks.

Iguana775
09-03-2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Perspective, folks.

What's that?? he is supposed to be good NOW!!!

LOL

kermittheefrog
09-03-2002, 11:50 AM
We can nitpick all we want. Wells has obviously developed into a solid young starting pitcher while we're stuck with the worst starter in baseball this season.