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View Full Version : Is it time to sell?


nickjames
06-18-2016, 07:54 PM
Let me preface this post by stating that I am a life long White Sox fan and an optimist. I grew up in the 80s, watching those miserable teams scuffle their way through losing season after losing season. It didn't matter to me as a kid. I loved the Sox. In 1990, my expectations changed. The Sox had their first of several winning seasons to come.

Why I mention the past is to explain my perspective. It is possible for our beloved Sox to make a move or two or to just start playing inspiring baseball and get themselves into the playoffs. That's what my heart hopes for. But when faced with the realities of this ball club, it doesn't seem like it is going to happen. Is it time to sell everything?

Think of the amount of top 100 prospects the Sox could get for Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, David Robertson, Jose Abreu, Todd Frazier, Adam Eaton and Melky Cabrera. (I know that many on this board aren't the biggest fans of Melky, but he is a decent hitter.) That group could net 5 to 10 high level prospects and an additional 5 to 10 quality minor leaguers. We're talking around 20 quality to top 100 prospects added to our system. Sure, we as fans would have to endure two to three seasons of poor quality baseball, but if this team fails to turn it around, we are going to experience that anyway. And without the added bonus of new blood to turn things around.

Noneck
06-18-2016, 08:03 PM
Think of the amount of top 100 prospects the Sox could get for Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, David Robertson, Jose Abreu, Todd Frazier, Adam Eaton and Melky Cabrera.


I believe you would be surprised how little Robertson, Frazier, and Melky would get in return. Abreu because of his previous two years may still get return. Eatons age, contract, defense and offense will get the Sox return. Sale and Quintana will get nice returns.

nickjames
06-18-2016, 08:05 PM
I agree. The majority of the return would come from Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Frazier. I was thinking as whole, the overall return would be good.

LITTLE NELL
06-18-2016, 08:06 PM
Yes, its time for JR to sell the team.

aryzner
06-18-2016, 08:06 PM
I'm on board for more than selling to see what you can get for Sale, Quintana, etc. Jerry needs to sell the ****ing team.

Noneck
06-18-2016, 08:11 PM
I agree. The majority of the return would come from Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Frazier. I was thinking as whole, the overall return would be good.


Not Frazier, Eaton.

nickjames
06-18-2016, 08:36 PM
To make a case for Frazier's value, two teams traded one top 100 prospect each for him in the deal that brought him to the Sox. However, Eaton is most likely worth more.

SI1020
06-18-2016, 08:44 PM
I'd say Frazier's stock is just a bit down right now.

Senerch23
06-18-2016, 08:49 PM
I'd trade everyone if the Sox had a front office I could trust to get a good return on the trades.

I_Liked_Manuel
06-18-2016, 09:04 PM
I don't trust the sox front office to get a return on anybody that would make sense

Dan H
06-18-2016, 09:36 PM
I think it is pointless to talk about trades and rebuilding at this time.

What really needs to happen is that Reinsdorf has to bring a solid baseball man from outside the organization to evaluate everything from front office to field management to players to minor league system to broadcast teams. Then begin real and substantial changes.

White Sox fans are not going to go the park to watch Shields get shelled in the first inning, or Melky play singles into triples.

If it appears that the franchise doesn't have the resources to field a real, winning team, sell. But above all, do something different.

thomas35forever
06-18-2016, 09:37 PM
:reinsy
"So you think I should Cell, sorry, sell?"

kittle42
06-18-2016, 09:39 PM
They should have done a complete rebuild two seasons ago, despite many here saying it would sink the franchise. What is this doing?

KingXerxes
06-18-2016, 09:42 PM
They should have done a complete rebuild two seasons ago, despite many here saying it would sink the franchise. What is this doing?

I agree, but if the best time to rebuild was two years ago and they didn't do it, the next best time is tomorrow.

Back up the trucks.

kittle42
06-18-2016, 10:05 PM
I agree, but if the best time to rebuild was two years ago and they didn't do it, the next best time is tomorrow.

Back up the trucks.

100% agree.

JB98
06-18-2016, 10:25 PM
I'd like to fire the manager first to see if that would change the fortunes. Still only 4.5 back in a weak division, despite one of the most miserable 35-game stretches I've ever endured as a Sox fan.

But, if they are going to insist on being loyal to Ventura and staff, then fine, fire the players. Sell them all off. Because the status quo sure isn't going to get it done. They've been in a slump for almost a full quarter of the season now. That isn't a small sample size.

Noneck
06-18-2016, 10:37 PM
I'd say Frazier's stock is just a bit down right now.


Yep got below that mendoza line today.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2016, 10:44 PM
Even if all you get are low minor league players at least you've cleared the decks and can start yet another "contend while rebuilding" next season.

****can just about anyone and everyone. On AND Off the field.

Lip

chisox59
06-18-2016, 11:19 PM
I wish Frank Lane was still around. He'd move people until he got the right pieces together. I know it's wishful thinking because this is a totally different era with a totally different set of rules but it would be fun to watch him wheel and deal and watch the results!

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2016, 11:53 PM
I don't trust this front office to do a complete rebuild

whitesoxfan1986
06-19-2016, 12:16 AM
I don't trust this front office to do a complete rebuild
+1
Hahn/KW are the worst front office tandem in MLB bar none. Everybody they acquire turns to crap. Then when the players they have overpaid for are sold for a bag of heavily used jock straps, they magically figure out how to hit or pitch again. Coincidence? I think not.

TommyJohn
06-19-2016, 12:21 AM
I won't say sell the farm, but if they go for a tear down , I won't object. I will, however, worry that the brain trust is being entrusted with a rebuild.

I still remember 1997, when Reinsdorf "surrendered" when only 3 1/2 games out. I remember the bitching, screaming, hollering, moaning, groaning, the vows to stay away forever. So if this team is 3 1/2 back on July 31st and surrenders, what will the reaction be? After all this angst, I would hope that it would be welcomed.

We just have to hang in there. After all, these are the times that try men's souls. Women, too. I didn't forget the ladies of WSI. We just have to have faith that there is a purpose for it all. That our lives have meaning, that our Sox fandom has meaning. I know we are suffering, suffering, suffering. We bear our crosses with the nobility of Jesus and the patience of Job. Someday, we may find out that it was for a reason. I........

Whoa. Sorry about that. I was afflicted with a sudden case of Baseball Writer Hyperbole, a disorder which causes baseball writers to search for deep, philosophical meanings in a game of bat and ball. Several Chicago Sports Media members suffer from it. Well, sorry about that. Let's all just hang in there.

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2016, 12:27 AM
I won't say sell the farm, but if they go for a tear down , I won't object. I will, however, worry that the brain trust is being entrusted with a rebuild.

I still remember 1997, when Reinsdorf "surrendered" when only 3 1/2 games out. I remember the bitching, screaming, hollering, moaning, groaning, the vows to stay away forever. So if this team is 3 1/2 back on July 31st and surrenders, what will the reaction be? After all this angst, I would hope that it would be welcomed.

This is different. The '97 team was only two seasons (and a painful strike) removed from being arguably one of the best in baseball. This team hasn't played a relevant game in August nearly 4 seasons

tstrike2000
06-19-2016, 01:08 AM
If the Sox are not going to hold the front office and\or coaching staff accountable, and just keep telling us the same propaganda, I don't care what they do. Because until they have the right front office and coaching staff in place, and are realistic with themselves, the same dysfunction will just keep propagating itself down through the organization.

RadioheadRocks
06-19-2016, 01:10 AM
If the Sox are not going to hold the front office and\or coaching staff accountable, and just keep telling us the same propaganda, I don't care what they do. Because until they have the right front office and coaching staff in place, and are realistic with themselves, the same dysfunction will just keep propagating itself down through the organization.

This.

LoveYourSuit
06-19-2016, 01:10 AM
Normal circumstances, yes start selling high. This scouting department, I have zero trust they know how to pick prospect talent. I'm already getting itchy on results of the past few drafts under Hahn. I need to see something soon. The prize pick Rodon doesn't look anything special right now.

cards press box
06-19-2016, 01:57 AM
I cannot remember a Sox team that started so well and then tanked so completely. I find this situation utterly baffling.

The Sox just had a very good draft and there is no reason that they shouldn't have a bright future. They need to start thinking about the future and a new manager is a real good place to start.

LITTLE NELL
06-19-2016, 07:34 AM
They have to do what was done after the 1970 season, clean house starting with the Front Office and the manager and all the coaches. In 1970 they brought in Hemond as GM and Tanner as manager along with his hand picked coaches. IIRC none of those guys had any former ties to the White Sox in any capacity. They brought in a bunch of new players in 72 and improved by 23 games over the 56 they won in 70 and in 1972 they almost won the division. Now I realize that its hard to clean house of players in this day and age what with long term contracts but we still need to start with the Braintrust. JR, if he is going to hold on as owner has to stop this loyalty crap, he owes it to the backbone of the franchise; the fans, he needs to show some loyalty to the people who are paying the freight and living this train wreck.

KingXerxes
06-19-2016, 08:26 AM
They have to do what was done after the 1970 season, clean house starting with the Front Office and the manager and all the coaches. In 1970 they brought in Hemond as GM and Tanner as manager along with his hand picked coaches. IIRC none of those guys had any former ties to the White Sox in any capacity. They brought in a bunch of new players in 72 and improved by 23 games over the 56 they won in 70. Now I realize that its hard to clean house of players in this day and age what with long term contracts but we still need to start with the Braintrust. JR, if he is going to hold on as owner has to stop this loyalty crap, he owes it to the backbone of the franchise; the fans, he needs to show some loyalty to the people who are paying the freight and living this train wreck.

Well stated.

WSox597
06-19-2016, 08:32 AM
I don't trust the sox front office to get a return on anybody that would make sense

I also don't trust them not to screw up any prospects they do get down in the farm system.

It's time for some major changes, and as someone pointed out in the last 3 years they've changed everybody but Sale and Quintana. It's time for some front office changes.

I'm not sure which way to go here.

soxnut67
06-19-2016, 08:48 AM
I don't trust this front office to do a complete rebuild

Exactly! Until the front office goes it doesn't matter.

white sox bill
06-19-2016, 09:55 AM
A missing link as option? Hell we need the entire chain!

Honestly, I'm beginning to think we may do what the cubs did in rebuilding. Totally suck for at least 3 yrs, sure draw 12K to each home game but in 4-5 yrs have a WS contending team.

Would it work? Not with these incompetent bungling front office/managerial fools at the helm. Would we literally disappear off the Chicago media scene? Yes, but would the fans come back after several yrs of 100 loss seasons? Many here would say no. I'm not so sure....

nsolo
06-19-2016, 10:34 AM
I'd trade everyone if the Sox had a front office I could trust to get a good return on the trades.

Ditto! Underline that and add more exclamation points. I'm all for selling, but I get the shivers thinking how the front office would take away our best for a bag of used bating practice balls and a box of dirty jock straps.

Dan H
06-19-2016, 10:36 AM
.Whoa. Sorry about that. I was afflicted with a sudden case of Baseball Writer Hyperbole, a disorder which causes baseball writers to search for deep, philosophical meanings in a game of bat and ball. Several Chicago Sports Media members suffer from it. Well, sorry about that. Let's all just hang in there.

I'd like to hang in there, but not with the front office group. I thought the White Flag Trade was the dumbest thing the team ever did. What has happened in the last few years ranks with it.

gobears1987
06-19-2016, 12:53 PM
We should sell, but I don't want our current morons to be the ones doing so.

Hitmen77
06-19-2016, 01:21 PM
I don't trust the sox front office to get a return on anybody that would make sense

We should sell, but I don't want our current morons to be the ones doing so.

Bingo. With the current brain-trust running the show at 35th and Shields, my concern is that the Sox would get nothing more than magic beans for what little trade-able talent they have.

Things aren't going to change until there's new management running the show - that includes the management in the front offices as well as the ones in the dugout.

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2016, 01:29 PM
Bingo. With the current brain-trust running the show at 35th and Shields, my concern is that the Sox would get nothing more than magic beans for what little trade-able talent they have.

Things aren't going to change until there's new management running the show - that includes the management in the front offices as well as the ones in the dugout.

Well, I can't imagine Jerry firing his manager, GM and president of baseball operations. So really we're stuck until the Sox get a new owner

Sufferin
06-19-2016, 02:54 PM
I am one of the few who voted for trying to get missing links. Largely because no one in this division looks very impressive, and it's there for the taking. Once in the playoffs I do like having Sale and Quintana against any other 1 and 2.

Also, as many have said I don't trust the clowns making the moves to get the right prospects in a sell-off. Our beloved Sox might just be the worst team in the league at developing young talent.

So I like our chances better if we stick with our "core" and try to upgrade at 2nd, center, C, DH, SS and SO and RP.

So that's a lot of missing links, I know. But if we can improve in 3 of these spots we have a shot.

BTW, Lawrie-why is he still playing every day? .230 hitters with no power and average defense playing every day are why the Sox have been the Sox for 40 years.

Noneck
06-19-2016, 06:01 PM
So I like our chances better if we stick with our "core" and try to upgrade at 2nd, center, C, DH, SS and SO and RP.

So that's a lot of missing links, I know. But if we can improve in 3 of these spots we have a shot.




You do realize in order to fill these missing links the Sox have to give up something in return? I dont see much if any assets that are not needed to give up in return.

FielderJones
06-19-2016, 08:01 PM
BTW, Lawrie-why is he still playing every day? .230 hitters with no power and average defense playing every day are why the Sox have been the Sox for 40 years.

Lawrie's playing every day because he can catch the ****ing ball. Runs saved count just as much as runs scored.

Sufferin
06-19-2016, 08:38 PM
You do realize in order to fill these missing links the Sox have to give up something in return? I dont see much if any assets that are not needed to give up in return.

Salary dumps usually don't ask for much in return. You can get improvements to at least a couple of these with picks/prospects who likely won't amount to anything anyway. I'm not saying it's simple, just that I'd rather see them try this than a complete sell off for prospects and picks that they'll eff up anyway. I just feel we have a better chance of taking a long shot at the division than a rebuilding effort that will fail. Also if they go for it and fail, there's more chance of the clown college being let go at the end of the year. A rebuild means they get a reprieve (again) of 2-3 years and we're having this same conversation in 2020.

Sufferin
06-19-2016, 08:41 PM
Lawrie's playing every day because he can catch the ****ing ball. Runs saved count just as much as runs scored.

As I said, I think he plays average D. He made a couple of good plays today, but overall, I doubt his D saves more runs than Saladino or virtually any other 2B in the league. You can look up the stats and they may prove me wrong, but he hasn't shown me he's anything special in the field.

Noneck
06-19-2016, 09:45 PM
Salary dumps usually don't ask for much in return. You can get improvements to at least a couple of these with picks/prospects who likely won't amount to anything anyway. I'm not saying it's simple, just that I'd rather see them try this than a complete sell off for prospects and picks that they'll eff up anyway. I just feel we have a better chance of taking a long shot at the division than a rebuilding effort that will fail. Also if they go for it and fail, there's more chance of the clown college being let go at the end of the year. A rebuild means they get a reprieve (again) of 2-3 years and we're having this same conversation in 2020.

Picking up salary dumps can ruin a team for years. Look at Shields. One is enough for me.

Sufferin
06-20-2016, 01:47 AM
Picking up salary dumps can ruin a team for years. Look at Shields. One is enough for me.
Well, that's the thing. You pick up rentals who will be FA after this season from teams out of the running who are looking to get anything for the guy. You don't pick up mulit-year deals. This common practice, done annually by teams in every sport, is apparently something our brain trust doesn't understand.