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View Full Version : Miguel Gonzalez starting Monday


kittle42
05-06-2016, 06:56 PM
https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/728698298031280128

LITTLE NELL
05-06-2016, 07:12 PM
Law of averages have to be with us, someone will have a nice start out of the 5 spot.

Lip Man 1
05-06-2016, 11:43 PM
Worth a shot although it's against another good hitting team. They gave Danks four of them...then can give Gonzales another one.

Lip

TDog
05-07-2016, 12:24 AM
Law of averages have to be with us, someone will have a nice start out of the 5 spot.

Danks had one quality start among four, two runs in six innings against the Angels.

The other two "fifth-starter" spots have gone to Gonzalez and Johnson, who each had one non-quality start. Gonzalez has the worst ERA of the lot (Danks' and Johnson have about the same ERA), but he was pitching in Toronto. One quality start in the next two would match Danks' pace for the replacements.

By the way, has anyone noticed that the "fifth-starter" spot is coming up second most frequently in the White Sox rotation than the "fourth-starter or "third-starter" spots? The fifth starters (5.0, 5.1 and 5.2) will start seven times before Rodon or Latos gets their seventh starts. This is true even though Danks was skipped over in the opening game of the Tampa Bay series in which Sale pitched a 1-0 shutout.

In most seasons, you don't need any fifth-starter starts until late April because of off-days and perhaps rain-outs. The "fifth-starter" spot was moved up in the rotation twice. While most teams would use every opportunity to avoid going to that last man in the rotation, the Sox haven't sacrificed rest from the rest that would be afforded the rest of the staff.

I think that's interesting. Maybe it amplifies the ineffectiveness of the "fifth starter," by exposing him more than the Sox had to. But it also seems to be approaching the series for the long haul.

soxfanreggie
05-07-2016, 11:43 AM
Danks had one quality start among four, two runs in six innings against the Angels.

The other two "fifth-starter" spots have gone to Gonzalez and Johnson, who each had one non-quality start. Gonzalez has the worst ERA of the lot (Danks' and Johnson have about the same ERA), but he was pitching in Toronto. One quality start in the next two would match Danks' pace for the replacements.

By the way, has anyone noticed that the "fifth-starter" spot is coming up second most frequently in the White Sox rotation than the "fourth-starter or "third-starter" spots? The fifth starters (5.0, 5.1 and 5.2) will start seven times before Rodon or Latos gets their seventh starts. This is true even though Danks was skipped over in the opening game of the Tampa Bay series in which Sale pitched a 1-0 shutout.

In most seasons, you don't need any fifth-starter starts until late April because of off-days and perhaps rain-outs. The "fifth-starter" spot was moved up in the rotation twice. While most teams would use every opportunity to avoid going to that last man in the rotation, the Sox haven't sacrificed rest from the rest that would be afforded the rest of the staff.

I think that's interesting. Maybe it amplifies the ineffectiveness of the "fifth starter," by exposing him more than the Sox had to. But it also seems to be approaching the series for the long haul.

We've seen over several years what post-injury John Danks gave us from that spot. I'm willing to give Gonzalez another couple starts to see what he can do while we see who comes open on the trade market. If Gonzalez can give us a sub-4.75 ERA and we have a shot to win a couple games he starts, that may carry us to July. If he does well, he keeps going. If not, we try another option or two until someone comes open.

My question to anyone against Gonzalez, Johnson, etc. - what would you do instead in the 5th spot?

TDog
05-07-2016, 12:37 PM
We've seen over several years what post-injury John Danks gave us from that spot. I'm willing to give Gonzalez another couple starts to see what he can do while we see who comes open on the trade market. If Gonzalez can give us a sub-4.75 ERA and we have a shot to win a couple games he starts, that may carry us to July. If he does well, he keeps going. If not, we try another option or two until someone comes open.

My question to anyone against Gonzalez, Johnson, etc. - what would you do instead in the 5th spot?

I'm not against starting Gonzalez or Johnson over Danks. I just don't think you're going to see any difference in the results. And I think the need for starting pitchers around baseball will inflate the trade market to the point where a good pitcher could weaken your franchise, as it did with the A's a couple of years ago when, not so long ago, they were the best team in baseball.

You can go out and audition (i.e. sign to a minor league contract and/or start a game at the major league level) to everyone released by teams who have been inspired to reach the same conclusions Danks inspired the White Sox to reach. You're just spending more money and not solving the problem.

In the end, most teams are going to have a stopgap starter as their fifth to give them some innings and hopes of a win if the conditions are right. The Royals are running out Kris Medlen as their fifth starter with an ERA of 6.85. The Giants have Jake Peavy and Matt Cain throwing batting practice as their No. 4 and No. 5 starters, because they used to be able to pitch. (The Cain situation is like the Danks situation with a bigger contract, but Cain was much better when he was at his best.) Even post-injury-but still-earning-$28-million-this-year Justin Verlander has an ERA over 6, but on the Tigers he has won a couple of games.

It will only get worse as the season progresses and the injuries pile up. I expect Danks will sign to play somewhere, probably with the A's, who just lost Bassitt, projected to be the A's No. 3 starter (and his ERA was over 6).

Every time a pitcher is released who used to be able to pitch, fans who haven't seen how Danks-esque he looked to inspire his release will be anxious to talk him up. And maybe you'll get lucky, if your're very lucky.

Your best bet is probably Gonzalez. He throws harder than Danks. He has better control than Turner. In the end, though Gonzalez probably isn't going to be much, if any, of an improvement over Danks.

But at least they're trying.

Hawkinole
05-10-2016, 12:35 AM
Your best bet is probably Gonzalez. He throws harder than Danks. He has better control than Turner. In the end, though Gonzalez probably isn't going to be much, if any, of an improvement over Danks.

But at least they're trying.

I was pleasantly surprised when I looked at Gonzalez's hx in MLB. It is more significant than I expected, and more positive than I expected to see.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml)

Has a lifetime 3.86 ERA and 39-33 in the major leagues.

He pitched a heckuva game against Texas tonight, but his deliberate approach when I caught a glimpse was like watching paint dry. I prefer to watch pitchers like Jim Kaat and Mark Buehrle who are unafraid to pitch the next pitch and keep up a good pace. Overall -- Gonzalez appears to have found a spot in the lineup.

His history easily qualifies him as a 5th starter, and as a 4th starter on many teams.
:bandance:

HomeFish
05-10-2016, 01:04 AM
I'm all for letting him start again after tonight.

Tragg
05-10-2016, 01:13 AM
At least for tonight, I saw a difference between him and Danks. He got away with some pitches but he threw some really good pitches as well. Same thing happened against Toronto but this time it was more good ones and fewer bad ones. Trending well.

voodoochile
05-10-2016, 01:15 AM
At least for tonight, I saw a difference between him and Danks. He got away with some pitches but he threw some really good pitches as well. Same thing happened against Toronto but this time it was more good ones and fewer bad ones. Trending well.

He's got a nasty freaking change with a late break when it's on from the looks of things. Gotta give him more starts. Heck, I wanted him to stay up last time, but I think they needed the bullpen arm so they took a flyer on Johnson figuring maybe they'd get lucky and Gonzalez could come back up in 10 days. Now he's back and here he should stay.

gobears1987
05-10-2016, 01:18 AM
Without a doubt Gonzalez earned another look. he faced a tough line-up and put the team in a position to win. If you have any doubt how tough this line-up is, just look at what they got off of our otherwise stellar bullpen.

WSox597
05-10-2016, 08:17 AM
I was pleasantly surprised when I looked at Gonzalez's hx in MLB. It is more significant than I expected, and more positive than I expected to see.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzami03.shtml)

Has a lifetime 3.86 ERA and 39-33 in the major leagues.

He pitched a heckuva game against Texas tonight, but his deliberate approach when I caught a glimpse was like watching paint dry. I prefer to watch pitchers like Jim Kaat and Mark Buehrle who are unafraid to pitch the next pitch and keep up a good pace. Overall -- Gonzalez appears to have found a spot in the lineup.

His history easily qualifies him as a 5th starter, and as a 4th starter on many teams.
:bandance:

He has a better record than a Sox pitcher from last year who's now making almost $100 million for another team. Pitch him again, see what we have.

Steelrod
05-10-2016, 10:05 AM
He pitched a heckuva game against Texas tonight, but his deliberate approach when I caught a glimpse was like watching paint dry. I prefer to watch pitchers like Jim Kaat and Mark Buehrle who are unafraid to pitch the next pitch and keep up a good pace. Overall -- Gonzalez appears to have found a spot in the lineup.

His history easily qualifies him as a 5th starter, and as a 4th starter on many teams.
:bandance:
I prefer watching pitchers who win! Lots of other things to watch if you cannot stand to watch. He's just a kid, and you compare him to Buehrle and Kaat?

voodoochile
05-10-2016, 10:14 AM
I prefer watching pitchers who win! Lots of other things to watch if you cannot stand to watch. He's just a kid, and you compare him to Buehrle and Kaat?

He's 31 and he'll be 32 on Frank Thomas' birthday later this month...

spongyfungy
05-10-2016, 04:35 PM
Looks like miguel is the fifth starter for now http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/177335788/gm-rick-hahn-on-white-sox-start-to-season

Hawkinole
05-11-2016, 03:13 AM
He's 31 and he'll be 32 on Frank Thomas' birthday later this month...

He is a veteran, with a surprising amount of MLB experience for a guy pitching in Charlotte. When you have a guy like this who was behind a $15M per year player, and behind four other guys doing fairly well, it probably ought not to surprise us, that the organization has someone like Gonzalez in reserve.