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RKMeibalane
08-24-2002, 07:47 PM
I'm not going to elaborate on this. I think everyone here knows what I'm referring to.

RedPinStripes
08-24-2002, 08:01 PM
When someone's not getting the job done in this town they get booed no matter what they did before.

Jjav829
08-24-2002, 08:21 PM
When Im spending that much money to buy a ticket plus parking, and food money, I will boo whoever the hell I want to boo if I feel that they are not getting the job done.

Viva Magglio
08-24-2002, 08:31 PM
Frank should be booed. Tonight, Good Frank showed up and hit a HR. But it's Bad Frank who shows up most of the time, and Bad Frank must be booed.

ilovemags30
08-24-2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
When Im spending that much money to buy a ticket plus parking, and food money, I will boo whoever the hell I want to boo if I feel that they are not getting the job done.


i hear u on that

Lip Man 1
08-24-2002, 08:48 PM
I think any fan has the right to boo if they feel the player or team is not performing up to expectations.

If Jerry Reinsdorf had the guts to show his face at the ballpark instead of hiding out in Arizona are you saying the fans shouldn't boo him?

Lip

WinningUgly!
08-24-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Frank should be booed. Tonight, Good Frank showed up and hit a HR. But it's Bad Frank who shows up most of the time, and Bad Frank must be booed.

I have a hard time followng this logic, because even "Good Frank" was bad nearly 70% of the time. :D:

DVG
08-24-2002, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
When Im spending that much money to buy a ticket plus parking, and food money, I will boo whoever the hell I want to boo if I feel that they are not getting the job done.


Boo hoo hoo. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you
to spend all that hard-earned money.

RKMeibalane
08-24-2002, 11:01 PM
Frank Thomas is not the type of person who reacts well to being booed. He has been pressing, and the booing is probably a reason why. He needs to be able to relax at the plate. That can't happen if he's worried about what the fans will think.

Frank Thomas is, however, the type of person who will hold a grudge. If he feels that he is no longer welcome in Chicago, he will go elsewhere. He has already sworn off the media for the rest of his career. So far, he has kept that promise.

voodoochile
08-24-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think any fan has the right to boo if they feel the player or team is not performing up to expectations.

If Jerry Reinsdorf had the guts to show his face at the ballpark instead of hiding out in Arizona are you saying the fans shouldn't boo him?

Lip

No, players should be booed if they are not trying to get the job done. Any player who is working their ass off to perform and still failing should get the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

Boo Reinsdorf anywhere anytime you wish. Boo him for sleeping on the wrong side of the bed. Boo him for having messy hair. Boo him for saying, "Hello."

:selljerry

LongDistanceFan
08-24-2002, 11:17 PM
that is stupid, anyone had the right to boo. it been part of the game going back to the early 1910.

are we suppose to cheer even when i see something that i don't like. does that make me less of a fan.

RKMeibalane
08-24-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
that is stupid, anyone had the right to boo. it been part of the game going back to the early 1910.

are we suppose to cheer even when i see something that i don't like. does that make me less of a fan.

I'm not saying we should accept failure. After all, we're not Cubs fans. However, I think it's necessary to remember that everyone in media has been laughing at Frank Thomas for most of this season. He has virtually no one supporting him. People would rather spit on him and kick him while he's down.

It is important that we, as Sox fans, stand by Frank and support him. He is working his ass off, as Hawk and DJ pointed out tonight. The effort is there, but he isn't getting results. Booing him is not the answer. He already feels badly about the way this season has gone for him and the White Sox. There's no sense in making things worse for him. That will serve only as a reason for him to leave if the DSC is invoked.

LongDistanceFan
08-24-2002, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane


I'm not saying we should accept failure. After all, we're not Cubs fans. However, I think it's necessary to remember that everyone in media has been laughing at Frank Thomas for most of this season. He has virtually no one supporting him. People would rather spit on him and kick him while he's down.

It is important that we, as Sox fans, stand by Frank and support him. He is working his ass off, as Hawk and DJ pointed out tonight. The effort is there, but he isn't getting results. Booing him is not the answer. He already feels badly about the way this season has gone for him and the White Sox. There's no sense in making things worse for him. That will serve only as a reason for him to leave if the DSC is invoked.

i am still a frank backer and i feel that i may be one of the few who thinks he should be part of the sox next yr. that being said, people are going to do what they want to do.

RedPinStripes
08-24-2002, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by DVG



Boo hoo hoo. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you
to spend all that hard-earned money.

:reinsy
No, but i'll throw it in your face if you dont!

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 12:00 AM
I don't give a rat's ass if it was Micky Mantle out there. If you're not getting the Job done, you'll get boo-ed. And it don't matter what that person did before. i still remember what frank did, and i won't take that away, but god dammit, he's not untouchable.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I don't give a rat's ass if it was Micky Mantle out there. If you're not getting the Job done, you'll get boo-ed. And it don't matter what that person did before. i still remember what frank did, and i won't take that away, but god dammit, he's not untouchable.

Okay, but just to be clear, what are you booing, the lack of production or a perceived lack of effort? Personally, I think guys who have long successful careers deserve some respect, even when they falter later on in their careers.

Funny thing too, every one of these guys who will boo Frank now will be sucking up big time next year if the big guy has a good year...

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Okay, but just to be clear, what are you booing, the lack of production or a perceived lack of effort? Personally, I think guys who have long successful careers deserve some respect, even when they falter later on in their careers.

Funny thing too, every one of these guys who will boo Frank now will be sucking up big time next year if the big guy has a good year...

I don't boo him because i don't like him. I boo ricky henderson for that. I boo-ed ray durham many times for doing stupid **** with runners in scoring postition. Now there are rules for booing? If the job is not getting done, you're not happy with the player, simple as that. I don't think he's dogging it. I boo-ed the hell out him tuesday for not running out the last out of the game he could have had a hit on.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


I don't boo him because i don't like him. I boo ricky henderson for that. I boo-ed ray durham many times for doing stupid **** with runners in scoring postition. Now there are rules for booing? If the job is not getting done, you're not happy with the player, simple as that. I don't think he's dogging it. I boo-ed the hell out him tuesday for not running out the last out of the game he could have had a hit on.

I've only booed two players in my life. Cade McNown and a relief pitcher for the Sox from about 5 years ago last name of Castillo - think we got him from Toronto. I think you should really save it for special situations when a player has done nothing for your team and still seems to be acting like they deserve to be a star or they stink so badly there is no justification for them making any money at all at what they do. I think booing a superstar because he isn't living up to our expectations or because he is having a bad year and still making the money he signed for years ago is wrong, but I admit that people probably disagree with me, so I'll drop it...

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I've only booed two players in my life. Cade McNown and a relief pitcher for the Sox from about 5 years ago last name of Castillo - think we got him from Toronto. I think you should really save it for special situations when a player has done nothing for your team and still seems to be acting like they deserve to be a star or they stink so badly there is no justification for them making any money at all at what they do. I think booing a superstar because he isn't living up to our expectations or because he is having a bad year and still making the money he signed for years ago is wrong, but I admit that people probably disagree with me, so I'll drop it...

I'm also very vocal at games. my boo's turn into cheers fast though if deserved. :D:

LongDistanceFan
08-25-2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


I'm also very vocal at games. my boo's turn into cheers fast though if deserved. :D:

say here, it is a big baseball tradition to do that.

Jerry_Manuel
08-25-2002, 12:50 AM
August 28th is the last Sox home game before the strike. Who wants to take odds that Thomas gets boo'ed in his last home game as a member of the Sox?*

*If they envoke the clause, as it looks like they will.

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by DVG



Boo hoo hoo. No one's putting a gun to your head and forcing you
to spend all that hard-earned money.

Did I say someone was forcing me to? Let me check my post again...



Nope I never did. However, once I have paid my way into the ballpark I WILL voice my opinion on any player I want to ,whether good or bad, in whatever way possible. If you don't like the fact that fans like me decide to boo frank, too bad. Theres really not a damn thing anyone can do about it except Frank Thomas. As a fan you do have the right to boo a player . It seems like this is something many people forget.

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane


I'm not saying we should accept failure. After all, we're not Cubs fans. However, I think it's necessary to remember that everyone in media has been laughing at Frank Thomas for most of this season. He has virtually no one supporting him. People would rather spit on him and kick him while he's down.

It is important that we, as Sox fans, stand by Frank and support him. He is working his ass off, as Hawk and DJ pointed out tonight. The effort is there, but he isn't getting results. Booing him is not the answer. He already feels badly about the way this season has gone for him and the White Sox. There's no sense in making things worse for him. That will serve only as a reason for him to leave if the DSC is invoked.

Hawk and DJ are Frank apologists. But then again, what else are they gonna say. Im frankly tired of hearing Hawk talk about how it's all bad luck. No, bad luck is pulling a hamstring while rounding 3rd to score the game tying run and instead being tagged out because you can't run anymore. Bad luck is hitting a ball off the pithers glove and having it bounce in the air and the second baseman catch it (See Saturday's Rockies game). Bad luck is NOT going up to the plate and bailing out on pitches, never swinging at the first pitch, and being afraid of the ball.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2002, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I've only booed two players in my life. Cade McNown and a relief pitcher for the Sox from about 5 years ago last name of Castillo - think we got him from Toronto. I think you should really save it for special situations when a player has done nothing for your team and still seems to be acting like they deserve to be a star or they stink so badly there is no justification for them making any money at all at what they do. I think booing a superstar because he isn't living up to our expectations or because he is having a bad year and still making the money he signed for years ago is wrong, but I admit that people probably disagree with me, so I'll drop it... I've got your back on this one Voodoo. You couldn't have said it better.

Soxheads
08-25-2002, 01:36 AM
Which Castillo was it?

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Which Castillo was it?

Tony.

Soxheads
08-25-2002, 01:47 AM
Well, in my view, both Castillos sucked.

chisoxfanatic
08-25-2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
When Im spending that much money to buy a ticket plus parking, and food money, I will boo whoever the hell I want to boo if I feel that they are not getting the job done.
I agree with this 100%. It's like in the educational system...if a teacher isn't getting the job done, doesn't the student's parents have the right to complain about it?

Heather the Redbird

SOXSINCE'70
08-25-2002, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
When someone's not getting the job done in this town they get booed no matter what they did before.

Amen,brother!!You want cheering when the team is down 12-1,go to the dark (North) side!!

:firejerry :sellreinsy

WhiteSox = Life
08-25-2002, 08:37 AM
Just my quick take.

Everybody gets booed at some point, even Sosa! However, nobody needs to be booed every time that they make an out.

Therefore, Frank Thomas does not deserve to be booed for flying out, striking out, etc. when he's batting with no one on or maybe a guy on first.

However, Frank, as well as anyone else, deserves to be booed if they do not drive in a run with runner(s) in scoring position regardless of the count or number of outs.

I disagree with the "Boo Frank Whenever He Doesn't Get On Base" philosophy. But if one of the requirements that I listed are met, then boo him; it's your right as a fan. If not, lay off the guy. There is no reason to boo him otherwise.

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Hawk and DJ are Frank apologists. But then again, what else are they gonna say. Im frankly tired of hearing Hawk talk about how it's all bad luck. No, bad luck is pulling a hamstring while rounding 3rd to score the game tying run and instead being tagged out because you can't run anymore. Bad luck is hitting a ball off the pithers glove and having it bounce in the air and the second baseman catch it (See Saturday's Rockies game). Bad luck is NOT going up to the plate and bailing out on pitches, never swinging at the first pitch, and being afraid of the ball.

Is bad luck tearing your triceps so badly you had to have surgery? Is bad luck having complications arise after that surgery? Is bad luck having to miss nearly a year of playing as the result of that injury?

Now let me ask you this: How do you know Frank is fully recovered from all of that? Do you have the initials M.D. after your name?

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by chisoxfanatic

I agree with this 100%. It's like in the educational system...if a teacher isn't getting the job done, doesn't the student's parents have the right to complain about it?

Heather the Redbird

If the parents raise a kid who puts forth absolutely no effort in school, does the teacher have a right to complain about that?

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


Is bad luck tearing your triceps so badly you had to have surgery? Is bad luck having complications arise after that surgery? Is bad luck having to miss nearly a year of playing as the result of that injury?

Now let me ask you this: How do you know Frank is fully recovered from all of that? Do you have the initials M.D. after your name?

I don't know for sure that Frank is 100% healthy. Do you you know otherwise? Are you an M.D. who can explain and show proof as to how Frank is NOT 100% healthy?

He felt good in ST. Maybe he has done something to reaggravate that injury. Maybe he hasn't. Maybe hes fine and his problems are all in his head. You see what Im saying? It's all a lot of maybes. We don't know fur sure and the only one who does is Frank Thomas himself.

However, Im still going to boo any player that I feel isn't performing the way he should be, and a lot of other people will do the same. Like I said before, theres only one person who can stop all the people booing, and thats Frank Thomas.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


I don't know for sure that Frank is 100% healthy. Do you you know otherwise? Are you an M.D. who can explain and show proof as to how Frank is NOT 100% healthy?

He felt good in ST. Maybe he has done something to reaggravate that injury. Maybe he hasn't. Maybe hes fine and his problems are all in his head. You see what Im saying? It's all a lot of maybes. We don't know fur sure and the only one who does is Frank Thomas himself.

However, Im still going to boo any player that I feel isn't performing the way he should be, and a lot of other people will do the same. Like I said before, theres only one person who can stop all the people booing, and thats Frank Thomas.

So you'll boo who you want to and only you will be able to decipher the whys and wherefores. You won't give a player a break because of past success. Only today matters. I guess we can call that a "What have you done for me lately, boo."

I guess under that definition every player on the Sox will get booed by you at some point in their career. Just curious, are there any players on the Sox you would give more of a break to than others?

What would it take for you to start booing Maggs, Buehrle or Paulie? Just curious...

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


So you'll boo who you want to and only you will be able to decipher the whys and wherefores. You won't give a player a break because of past success. Only today matters. I guess we can call that a "What have you done for me lately, boo."

I guess under that definition every player on the Sox will get booed by you at some point in their career. Just curious, are there any players on the Sox you would give more of a break to than others?

What would it take for you to start booing Maggs, Buehrle or Paulie? Just curious...

Maggs? about a .231 average, and mark, about a 6era like ritchie. If i boo a player at a game for something he did at that game, yeah, it is because he hasn't done anything latly.

Maggs got boo-ed in oakland because he couldn't throw a football. It's spur of the moment. If i boo a player at a game i attend, it's for that particular performance. Not before he comes out of the dugout. Not running out a blooper that could have been a hit to end the game will get me to boo anyone. I don't care what he did 2 or 8 years ago. that's not helping the present game. Dammit, can anyone talk bad about thomas because he used to be good?

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


So you'll boo who you want to and only you will be able to decipher the whys and wherefores. You won't give a player a break because of past success. Only today matters. I guess we can call that a "What have you done for me lately, boo."

I guess under that definition every player on the Sox will get booed by you at some point in their career. Just curious, are there any players on the Sox you would give more of a break to than others?

What would it take for you to start booing Maggs, Buehrle or Paulie? Just curious...

If Maggs, Buehrle, Konerko ever start whining about their contracts and have what is essentially a 4 year slump, spare 1 year (2000) then maybe I will boo them.

But in any case, Im done arguing with all the Frank lovers who refuse to admit that he is having a bad season, and stop blaming everything but Frank himself as the cause. Im not naming anyone here neccessarily, but Im just saying I've been through this over and over and Im done. The bottom line is no one is going to stop fans from booing who they want to boo, so theres no point in trying.

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


If Maggs, Buehrle, Konerko ever start whining about their contracts and have what is essentially a 4 year slump, spare 1 year (2000) then maybe I will boo them.

But in any case, Im done arguing with all the Frank lovers who refuse to admit that he is having a bad season, and stop blaming everything but Frank himself as the cause. Im not naming anyone here neccessarily, but Im just saying I've been through this over and over and Im done. The bottom line is no one is going to stop fans from booing who they want to boo, so theres no point in trying.

I'm with ya! :gulp:

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Maggs? about a .231 average, and mark, about a 6era like ritchie. If i boo a player at a game for something he did at that game, yeah, it is because he hasn't done anything latly.

Maggs got boo-ed in oakland because he couldn't throw a football. It's spur of the moment. If i boo a player at a game i attend, it's for that particular performance. Not before he comes out of the dugout. Not running out a blooper that could have been a hit to end the game will get me to boo anyone. I don't care what he did 2 or 8 years ago. that's not helping the present game. Dammit, can anyone talk bad about thomas because he used to be good?

If you are talking about how he stinks this year, fine - though I think it is overblown and by that definition many Sox players need to be booed this year. I admit freely that Frank is my favorite Sox player of all time. I defend him because I know what he was and hopefully still is capable of.

I'm not expecting to change people's opinions, but don't want the other side of things to be unrepresented. You express your distaste by booing. I want to know why and I am going to express my displeasure with your booing because I think it is wrong. That's the way this works. You want to boo Frank and have no one question your motives? Not going to happen while I am around.

Like I said, I don't expect to change your mind, but you aren't getting a free pass either...

To all the fans who boo Frank Thomas: "BOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

There, now I feel better...

:D:

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


If Maggs, Buehrle, Konerko ever start whining about their contracts and have what is essentially a 4 year slump, spare 1 year (2000) then maybe I will boo them.

But in any case, Im done arguing with all the Frank lovers who refuse to admit that he is having a bad season, and stop blaming everything but Frank himself as the cause. Im not naming anyone here neccessarily, but Im just saying I've been through this over and over and Im done. The bottom line is no one is going to stop fans from booing who they want to boo, so theres no point in trying.

Technically speaking it is a 5 year slump counting last year. Injuries and personal problems be damned...

:ohno
"Get over it you big baby. We don't care about injuries, divorce, death or anything else. Get out there and be the Frank Thomas of 1995 or GTOOH, BOOOOOOOOOO!"

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


So you'll boo who you want to and only you will be able to decipher the whys and wherefores. You won't give a player a break because of past success. Only today matters. I guess we can call that a "What have you done for me lately, boo."

I guess under that definition every player on the Sox will get booed by you at some point in their career. Just curious, are there any players on the Sox you would give more of a break to than others?

What would it take for you to start booing Maggs, Buehrle or Paulie? Just curious...

OH CHRIST, HERE WE GO. Is your love affair with the big skirt so intense that people can't even boo him without drawing your fire? He sucks this year & he's getting what he deserves 10 million dollars worth of boos for a bad season.. (oops, forgot about that pesky diminished skills clause darnit! ) .. ok all 500 thousand worth.

LOL!! :gulp:

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


If Maggs, Buehrle, Konerko ever start whining about their contracts and have what is essentially a 4 year slump, spare 1 year (2000) then maybe I will boo them.

Let's see. In 1998, Frank had a poor average but had close his usual HR and RBI stats. I assume that was a bad year because of his average and never mind the other offensive stats, right?

In 1999 management was all over Frank's case for being lazy. Turns out he had a bone spur in his ankle the size of Delaware. Gee, I wonder how that affected his performbance.

2000: A near MVP year.

2001: Played less than a month and had a terrible injury.

2002: A bad year following that injury.

Four year slump? I guess there were no extenuating circumstances around any of that in your view.

But in any case, Im done arguing with all the Frank lovers who refuse to admit that he is having a bad season, and stop blaming everything but Frank himself as the cause. Im not naming anyone here neccessarily, but Im just saying I've been through this over and over and Im done. The bottom line is no one is going to stop fans from booing who they want to boo, so theres no point in trying.

If you read my column you'll know that I'm no apologist for anyone involved with this club. What I'm saying is that maybe there are again extenuating circumstances resulting from a really horrible injury.

Let me ask you this. When Robin Ventura came back from tearing up his ankle, and he didn't produce up to your standards (and he really didn't when he came back based on what I'm reading here), did you boo him, too?

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


Let's see. In 1998, Frank had a poor average but had close his usual HR and RBI stats. I assume that was a bad year because of his average and never mind the other offensive stats, right?

In 1999 management was all over Frank's case for being lazy. Turns out he had a bone spur in his ankle the size of Delaware. Gee, I wonder how that affected his performbance.

2000: A near MVP year.

2001: Played less than a month and had a terrible injury.

2002: A bad year following that injury.

Four year slump? I guess there were no extenuating circumstances around any of that in your view.



If you read my column you'll know that I'm no apologist for anyone involved with this club. What I'm saying is that maybe there are again extenuating circumstances resulting from a really horrible injury.

Let me ask you this. When Robin Ventura came back from tearing up his ankle, and he didn't produce up to your standards (and he really didn't when he came back based on what I'm reading here), did you boo him, too?

Robin Ventura wasn't a cocky selfish son of a bitch either. Maybe if Thomas wasn't such an ******* off the field and in the clubhouse and wasn't getting paid 10 mil..er 500 thousand (theres that diminished skills clause popping up again) people would be more forgiving.

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum



Let me ask you this. When Robin Ventura came back from tearing up his ankle, and he didn't produce up to your standards (and he really didn't when he came back based on what I'm reading here), did you boo him, too?

There's a difference. Ventura never drew attention for being a prick.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


OH CHRIST, HERE WE GO. Is your love affair with the big skirt so intense that people can't even boo him without drawing your fire? He sucks this year & he's getting what he deserves 10 million dollars worth of boos for a bad season.. (oops, forgot about that pesky diminished skills clause darnit! ) .. ok all 500 thousand worth.

LOL!! :gulp:

Why are other people allowed to express their displeasure with Frank, but I am not allowed to defend him? What is that all about? I am not personally attacking the posters. I am not accusing them of hating him. I freely admit my bias in the matter. You don't like my defending FT, stop attacking him or ignore me. This is a message board. I stay within the rules and I talk baseball and baseball related topics.

I ask again, why is it okay for some people to openly attack a player, but when you defend him the EOBH get all huffy?

Post what you want, but why am I not allowed to respond?

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Robin Ventura wasn't a cocky selfish son of a bitch either. Maybe if Thomas wasn't such an ******* off the field and in the clubhouse and wasn't getting paid 10 mil..er 500 thousand (theres that diminished skills clause popping up again) people would be more forgiving.

Now ya did it. Don't ever call frank a cancer in the club house .

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Robin Ventura wasn't a cocky selfish son of a bitch either. Maybe if Thomas wasn't such an ******* off the field and in the clubhouse and wasn't getting paid 10 mil..er 500 thousand (theres that diminished skills clause popping up again) people would be more forgiving.

A friend of mine was at Picnic in the park a couple of weeks ago and reported the following.

The longest lines for autographs were for Frank Thomas. He signed every one of them. Paul Konerko, everyone's sweetheard signed maybe 20 autographs all evening. Yup, he turned people away.

My son (then 21 years old) was in Hooter's with some friends when Thomas came in with a group and sat down at the table next to him. He autographed a picture and posed for a couple of pictures with him. That stuff doesn't get reported, though. What we hear is how he wants out of his contract.

If Thomas has a weakness, it is his inability to come across as a good guy when the subject involves his contract. But other than that, Frank Thomas does do the things we expect of players off the field.

WinningUgly!
08-25-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Just my quick take.

Everybody gets booed at some point, even Sosa! However, nobody needs to be booed every time that they make an out.

Therefore, Frank Thomas does not deserve to be booed for flying out, striking out, etc. when he's batting with no one on or maybe a guy on first.

Great point. Fans aren't just booing Frank because he's having a crappy year, they're booing him now because they just flat out don't like him. I agree that whenever Frank jumps back, sticks his butt out & gets rang up--boo his ass! The same goes for whenever he "cupcakes" out & refuses to slide at the plate(or any other base)! The heat Thomas has been taking this year is bordering on harassment...the kind that I wish Sox fans would save for opponents. Sox fans are actually more venomous toward Frank Thomas than they are to players from other teams. Sad.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Why are other people allowed to express their displeasure with Frank, but I am not allowed to defend him? What is that all about? I am not personally attacking the posters. I am not accusing them of hating him. I freely admit my bias in the matter. You don't like my defending FT, stop attacking him or ignore me. This is a message board. I stay within the rules and I talk baseball and baseball related topics.

I ask again, why is it okay for some people to openly attack a player, but when you defend him the EOBH get all huffy?

Post what you want, but why am I not allowed to respond?

I'm not saying you can't post what you want, but don't think for a minute that you are above criticism for your opinions.

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Great point. Fans aren't just booing Frank because he's having a crappy year, they're booing him now because they just flat out don't like him. I agree that whenever Frank jumps back, sticks his butt out & gets rang up--boo his ass! The same goes for whenever he "cupcakes" out & refuses to slide at the plate(or any other base)! The heat Thomas has been taking this year is bordering on harassment...the kind that I wish Sox fans would save for opponents. Sox fans are actually more venomous toward Frank Thomas than they are to players from other teams. Sad.

A lot of people boo him as soon as he's announced or peaks his head out of the dugout. I wait for something to happen. Like looking like a AA player at the plate , not running out a pop up , not sliding ect. the same rules apply for any player. Well, not Crede yet for me. :D: He get some slack because he's new and shows he just got called up at times.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


A lot of people boo him as soon as he's announced or peaks his head out of the dugout. I wait for something to happen. Like looking like a AA player at the plate , not running out a pop up , not sliding ect. the same rules apply for any player. Well, not Crede yet for me. :D: He get some slack because he's new and shows he just got called up at times.

At least Crede tries his best. If a player is having a rough go but is giving it his all then I won't boo him, but a guy like skirt who is just collecting a paycheck hell no! If he's so fragile in the head that booing makes him go all to pieces then forget a hitting coach, he needs a shrink.

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


At least Crede tries his best. If a player is having a rough go but is giving it his all then I won't boo him, but a guy like skirt who is just collecting a paycheck hell no! If he's so fragile in the head that booing makes him go all to pieces then forget a hitting coach, he needs a shrink.

O ****. here we go!

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=88134

WinningUgly!
08-25-2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


If he's so fragile in the head that booing makes him go all to pieces then forget a hitting coach, he needs a shrink.

Yeah, it shouldn't bother him at all. The owner of nearly every offensive club record should expect to be booed off the field every time he steps to the plate.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


I'm not saying you can't post what you want, but don't think for a minute that you are above criticism for your opinions.

Criticize my opinions. Not me. You make it personal when you say stuff like:

Is your love affair with the big skirt so intense that people can't even boo him without drawing your fire?

I have never once said, that people can't post what they want, nor that they can't boo who they want. I just don't get it. I have never been a regular boo-bird. To me, booing a member of your own team is tantamount to treason and really bad for "team karma" (read: really bad luck), but that is just my opinion. The fact that it is FT getting booed is secondary to the argument, IMO. I don't get the whole booing thing, but it really bothers me when superstars get booed when they are clearly trying hard and struggling.

Do any of the posters who boo think Frank doesn't care? Do you think he isn't trying?

I think he is struggling big time and as ticked off about his slump as anyone. Maybe they would all rather have a guy who is putting up great numbers and is loved by all his fans and the media which presents the stories...

:shammy
"I'm not going back to Comiskey. They don't have a good PR department and my advertising revenue would drop to nothing..."

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


At least Crede tries his best. If a player is having a rough go but is giving it his all then I won't boo him, but a guy like skirt who is just collecting a paycheck hell no! If he's so fragile in the head that booing makes him go all to pieces then forget a hitting coach, he needs a shrink.

What do you hope to accomplish with the booing? Are you just doing it to make yourselves feel better? Do you think Frank and then the team will suddenly improve because of your booing? Do you hope to chase him out of town (I doubt it will work)?

Is there a method to the madness, or just madness?

Paulwny
08-25-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Do you think he isn't trying?



I think Frank's trying but, the question in the back of my mind is, " Why, with all his batting problems, doesn't he see Hriniak ?" This I don't understand.

Daver
08-25-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny


I think Frank's trying but, the question in the back of my mind is, " Why, with all his batting problems, doesn't he see Hriniak ?" This I don't understand.

Frank made a comment before the All Star break saying he would have to see Walt in the off season,because it would take to long to re adjust during the season,it would hurt more than it helped.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I have never once said, that people can't post what they want, nor that they can't boo who they want. I just don't get it. I have never been a regular boo-bird. To me, booing a member of your own team is tantamount to treason and really bad for "team karma" (read: really bad luck), but that is just my opinion. ."

Oh, so we're traitors for booing someone who deserves it. Like I said before, the worst trait of flubbie fanns is that they blindly cheer for the flubbs even though they suck balls. People who actually care about the team boo them when they are bad because they are...wait pay attention here...dissatisfied with poor play. Blindly cheering poor play is just totally silly to me.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


What do you hope to accomplish with the booing? Are you just doing it to make yourselves feel better? Do you think Frank and then the team will suddenly improve because of your booing? Do you hope to chase him out of town (I doubt it will work)?

Is there a method to the madness, or just madness?

People boo because they are not satisfied with poor play. What do you want my reaction to be? I help pay this guys 10 mil...er 500 thousand dollar a year salary with the cash I spend at the ballpark & I tend to get dissappointed when the players don't put out.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Oh, so we're traitors for booing someone who deserves it. Like I said before, the worst trait of flubbie fanns is that they blindly cheer for the flubbs even though they suck balls. People who actually care about the team boo them when they are bad because they are...wait pay attention here...dissatisfied with poor play. Blindly cheering poor play is just totally silly to me.

Those are not the only extremes. You don't have to cheer, but you don't have to boo either. You can sit and say nothing and cheer when something good happens. I have never once said that you should cheer wildly when bad things happen to the Sox or when a player isn't performing up to standards. I do think we should support every player in a Sox uniform to the best of our ability, but like I said. That's just me...

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Oh, so we're traitors for booing someone who deserves it. Like I said before, the worst trait of flubbie fanns is that they blindly cheer for the flubbs even though they suck balls. People who actually care about the team boo them when they are bad because they are...wait pay attention here...dissatisfied with poor play. Blindly cheering poor play is just totally silly to me.

And what is blindly booing poor play when you don't know the root cause of it? As far as I'm concerned, and remember I'm the one who wrote a column a few weeks back saying to buy tickets and boo, among other villains, the stiffs on the field, Frank Thomas gets a pass for one big reason. Management completely screwed up in 1999 about his bone spur, and the fans tore into him then when he wasn't the problem. My boos go to The Chairman, Prof. Chaos, and Gen. Disarray.

MarkEdward
08-25-2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


If Maggs, Buehrle, Konerko ever start whining about their contracts and have what is essentially a 4 year slump, spare 1 year (2000) then maybe I will boo them.


99% of MLB players would kill to have a "slump" that Frank Thomas is in. Do you actually consider 1998 and 1999 to be slump years?

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


And what is blindly booing poor play when you don't know the root cause of it? As far as I'm concerned, and remember I'm the one who wrote a column a few weeks back saying to buy tickets and boo, among other villains, the stiffs on the field, Frank Thomas gets a pass for one big reason. Management completely screwed up in 1999 about his bone spur, and the fans tore into him then when he wasn't the problem. My boos go to The Chairman, Prof. Chaos, and Gen. Disarray.

That's my point. Where do the boo-birds draw the line? Strictly on performance makes no sense, unless you think the player isn't trying, or keeps making the same mistakes. Boo lack of effort. Boo lack of caring. Booing a player because they are having a bad year is ridiculous.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


My boos go to The Chairman, Prof. Chaos, and Gen. Disarray.

Nah, my curse words & refrences to mental retardation are directed towards those fools.

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Booing a player because they are having a bad year is ridiculous.



Not in my book. that's why we disagree.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward



99% of MLB players would kill to have a "slump" that Frank Thomas is in. Do you actually consider 1998 and 1999 to be slump years?

By Frank's standards they are, but by most players standards, those were fine years.

'98-99 two year average for Frank Thomas:

.285 Avg
22 HR
93 RBI
91 R
35 2B
.399 OBP
.873 OPS
(all averages are strictly averaged, not recalculated)

And he missed a month of the 1999 season with a bone spur the size of a walnut that the doctors said would have prevented most people from even walking.

Man, can I get 8 starting position players with slumps like that...

Paulwny
08-25-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by daver


Frank made a comment before the All Star break saying he would have to see Walt in the off season,because it would take to long to re adjust during the season,it would hurt more than it helped.

I remember the statement, but could it get any worse then this?
By seeing Hriniak, maybe some of the boo birds would get off his case because they'd see that he's seeking help. I'm afraid alll the batting problems and booing might turn him into a head case.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Not in my book. that's why we disagree.

I reckon so...

LongDistanceFan
08-25-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


That's my point. Where do the boo-birds draw the line? Strictly on performance makes no sense, unless you think the player isn't trying, or keeps making the same mistakes. Boo lack of effort. Boo lack of caring.

c'mon now, are you saying we need a written set of rules to govern the booing as a set of rules be written is a holy set of standards to be the final word on anything. common sense should dictate the way people act.

if i still live there in chi and i went to a game last yr. i would still boo royce, even when he stat was climbing. why, b/c i don't like him. do i need a set of guidelines to tell me when to boo?

RKMeibalane
08-25-2002, 12:11 PM
Obviously, this is an extremely "touchy" subject with many Sox fans. I think it goes without saying that Frank Thomas has struggled mightily this season. However, I don't feel booing him solves anything.

As I said in an earlier post, Frank is not the type of player who reacts well to booing. He just becomes more frustrated. I don't know what people hope to accomplish by booing him. Are they trying to make him feel bad? Are they trying to send a message?

Either way, I don't think it's necessary to boo Frank. He knows he is struggling. He knows he is not having a good year. And I'm sure he feels badly about how his performance has affected the team.

I'm not saying fans shouldn't be displeased with him. He hasn't produced as often as we are used to. But I think the majority of people who are booing are doing it just for the hell of it. Others are doing it because they don't want Thomas around anymore.

Frank is not Mr. Innocent. He has done several things wrong during his career, but there are people who have done much worse, yet they are cheered, and he is booed.

Paul Konerko struck out three times last night. Did anyone boo him? Paulie hasn't played well since the 'Break. Has anyone booed him? What are people going to do if Konerko struggles next year? I would be shocked if people didn't turn on him.

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Not in my book. that's why we disagree.

So if you were a Yankee fan in 1939, you would have booed Lou Gehrig, right?

rmusacch
08-25-2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Frank Thomas is not the type of person who reacts well to being booed. He has been pressing, and the booing is probably a reason why. He needs to be able to relax at the plate. That can't happen if he's worried about what the fans will think.

Frank Thomas is, however, the type of person who will hold a grudge. If he feels that he is no longer welcome in Chicago, he will go elsewhere. He has already sworn off the media for the rest of his career. So far, he has kept that promise.

Boo freaking hoo. He is a ballplayer making millions to play a game. If he cannot handle it, he should go back to Columbus, GA and pump gas or whatever else an imbecile is qualified to do.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-25-2002, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Boo freaking hoo. He is a ballplayer making millions to play a game. If he cannot handle it, he should go back to Columbus, GA and pump gas or whatever else an imbecile is qualified to do.

YES!!!! VERY GOOD!!!

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


c'mon now, are you saying we need a written set of rules to govern the booing as a set of rules be written is a holy set of standards to be the final word on anything. common sense should dictate the way people act.

if i still live there in chi and i went to a game last yr. i would still boo royce, even when he stat was climbing. why, b/c i don't like him. do i need a set of guidelines to tell me when to boo?

No, each person can make that decision for themselves. I am not saying I have the only answer.

Sorry, I made a mistake. I have booed 3 people in my lifetime. I booed Royce unmercifully all through the crosstown series this year, but come on... it's Royce "the Choice" Klayton. He couldn't carry Frank's jock this year and this is Frank's worst offensive year ever by a long shot...

Whatever, I guess to each their own...

LongDistanceFan
08-25-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile




Whatever, I guess to each their own...

and that is what i am saying.

bc2k
08-25-2002, 04:56 PM
I have booed Thomas at Comiskey all year. I've decided not to boo him for the rest of the year (although I won't be going to anymore games in 2002). Watching today's game, I sort of felt pity for the man. He has been a light in this organization for many years. This slump has gone on all year and he has had to hear the boo-birds almost as long. I think he gets the point that we Sox fans aren't happy with his batting average, and we all should move on. I think it would be a nice gesture to Thomas if the booing stopped. Let him know we're behind him.

Anyone else notice that Frank has run hard to first base all year long? I have and it finally paid off today when he beat out a grounder to the SS Escalona.

I agree with Paulwny that if Thomas goes to Hriniak, some fans would get off his back. From what I've just learned from Sox hitters how Ward isn't helping them, the idea of Hriniak sounds even better.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I have booed Thomas at Comiskey all year. I've decided not to boo him for the rest of the year (although I won't be going to anymore games in 2002). Watching today's game, I sort of felt pity for the man. He has been a light in this organization for many years. This slump has gone on all year and he has had to hear the boo-birds almost as long. I think he gets the point that we Sox fans aren't happy with his batting average, and we all should move on. I think it would be a nice gesture to Thomas if the booing stopped. Let him know we're behind him.

Anyone else notice that Frank has run hard to first base all year long? I have and it finally paid off today when he beat out a grounder to the SS Escalona.

I agree with Paulwny that if Thomas goes to Hriniak, some fans would get off his back. From what I've just learned from Sox hitters how Ward isn't helping them, the idea of Hriniak sounds even better.

Well said...

Ol Aches & Pains
08-25-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Okay, but just to be clear, what are you booing, the lack of production or a perceived lack of effort? Personally, I think guys who have long successful careers deserve some respect, even when they falter later on in their careers.

Funny thing too, every one of these guys who will boo Frank now will be sucking up big time next year if the big guy has a good year...

I have been tough on Thomas on this board recently, but I will point out that he beat out a routine grounder to shortstop today when the hapless Tampa Bay Double A's infielder couldn't get the ball out of his glove. Frank ran hard for 90 feet and beat the throw.

You can see the frustration in his face, the whole way he carries himself. I don't doubt for a second that he wants to get back to where he was, and that he's trying to do so. I'd like nothing better than to be proved wrong, but it looks to me like he's done. I don't know if it's the injury, the steroids, the personal life, or all of the above, but he's obviously not the same player he used to be.

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 08:21 PM
Table conversation at the WCSF luncheon last Friday. One season-ticket holder noted that in the past Frank had little opportunity to get down on himself because either Ozzie or Robin would be all over him. Nobody does that anymore. Someone who shoul know noted that the word from management is to not get on Frank's case, which is probably exactly what he needs.

guillen4life13
08-25-2002, 10:02 PM
there is no doubt in my mind that the big HURT (notice i didn't say skirt, as i know i don't need to sink to that level). i think that some of the frank booers have shown exactly how immature they can be on this board. and not once on this board has it been mentioned that more than half of frank's salary goes into other payments for his ex-wife, etc. and of course, that 5 year slump of his, wait, minus one year because he kicked *** that year. oh, and minus the year after when he hardly played because he was injured so badly that he couldn't even brush his teeth with his right hand. oh and of course minus the year he had a bone spur that surprised even the doctor that he was able to endure the pain to walk on it. oh, and one more thing: in '98 and '99, his numbers weren't even that bad.

that's quite a five year slump, isn't it?



listen: this guy probably has the best case for having been the best hitter of the '90's, and he's only 34/35. and what's better is that all of you frank booers are gonna be whining about how we exercised the diminished skills contract and he goes elsewhere and has an mvp caliber season.

you know something? i'm a performer in my own right (i play guitar and sing in a band). and if i ever get booed by a large group, i swear to you it would get to me. and it would not make me play any better better... it would only make me more conscious of the fans, which is where frank doesn't want to be, and for that matter, no one wants to be. let me ask you all a question: if michael jordan came back after missing a year because of a torn triceps muscle, would you boo him because he wasn't up to his form of 2 years previous?

if you answer yes to that question, i must say that you are saying that just for the sake of saying that to contradict me. i know that no TRUE bulls fan would boo him.

in MJ's case, he might respond positively to the booing. that is not the case with frank.

and i don't understand how everyone keeps saying that he's not trying. have you actually been watching him? he seems like he's being the hardest on himself. and maybe that is why he's not been able to get back to form. he's got everyone booing him, making him more self conscious, and he therefore can't find a rhythm. he's not able to let it flow, and i think that the fans who are booing him can take part of the blame for that. maggs doesn't have much on what frank was in the early/mid '90's. konerko doesn't have much on what he was either. and i firmly believe (and i think so does voodoo) that he can be as good as he was at that time. and one thing that might slow someone down is one of the most important muscles for hitting being completely messed up and still healing.

o yeah, for jJav. you avoided the point completely by asking if we are m.d.'s as well. the fact of the matter is... no one (possiblyno one including ft) knows if his triceps are full healed.

if frank comes back next year and does a really bad job, i will no longer defend him as i just have in this post... but i will never boo him. he was the leader on a team that should have, could have, and would have gone to, and won the WS in '94. and it is the fault of this team's owner, among other people, that that did not happen. frank cannot be blamed for that. and i still think that he has more outstanding seasons left in him. as he himself said: "some people are born to hit, and i'm one of them."

and if the d/s clause is invoked, and he goes to some other team and kicks ***, i'm gonna be left here saying "i told you so."

RedPinStripes
08-25-2002, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
IAnyone else notice that Frank has run hard to first base all year long?


Not true.

I didn't verbally boo him until he dogged the last out of the game which he would have been safe at first on tuesday night. He don't run everything out when he's frustrated. he's too busy bitchig himslef out down the line.

I do the same in softball when i pop-up but no one expects me to put up Thomas like #'s and i'm not getting paid.

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum



If you read my column you'll know that I'm no apologist for anyone involved with this club. What I'm saying is that maybe there are again extenuating circumstances resulting from a really horrible injury.

Let me ask you this. When Robin Ventura came back from tearing up his ankle, and he didn't produce up to your standards (and he really didn't when he came back based on what I'm reading here), did you boo him, too?

Like I said, I wasn't really refering to anyone here directly, just all the people who seem to feel that because Frank has some great years in the 90's, that somehow earns his a lifetime exemption from ever being boo'ed. I've been through this with people not on this site before.

Hell, Ted Williams was one of the greatest players of all time and he got boo by his own fans not because he played bad, just because they didn't like him. It would be interesting to see what some of the people here ( Not you Hal)would have felt about that back then.

Jjav829
08-25-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Technically speaking it is a 5 year slump counting last year. Injuries and personal problems be damned...

:ohno
"Get over it you big baby. We don't care about injuries, divorce, death or anything else. Get out there and be the Frank Thomas of 1995 or GTOOH, BOOOOOOOOOO!"

I knew this would come up. Boohoo, Frank has had to deal with divorce and death. I've had just as bad, and probably worse things happen in my life in a lot less years. But somehow I am able to go out and continue. Damn, and little did I know years ago I could have used these things as excuses. Sorry, teacher, I know I got an F but you have to excuse me because a close family member died 3 years ago.

Gimme a break. We all have bad things happen in our life.

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Like I said, I wasn't really refering to anyone here directly, just all the people who seem to feel that because Frank has some great years in the 90's, that somehow earns his a lifetime exemption from ever being boo'ed. I've been through this with people not on this site before.

Hell, Ted Williams was one of the greatest players of all time and he got boo by his own fans not because he played bad, just because they didn't like him. It would be interesting to see what some of the people here ( Not you Hal)would have felt about that back then.

I was alive then and I remember reading about Williams doing such things as spitting at the crowd (or flipping them the bird) when they did boo him. (No, Todd Hundley has done nothing that other players haven't done before.) I hated Williams, but that was because he killed us. But as a naive young child, I couldn't believe that the Boston fans could be so stupid as to boo one of the greatest hitters of all time. (I knew he was because my grandpa told me so.)

One reason they didn't like Williams was because of the Boston sports writers who wrote volumes of negative copy about him. Sound familiar?

TornLabrum
08-25-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


I knew this would come up. Boohoo, Frank has had to deal with divorce and death. I've had just as bad, and probably worse things happen in my life in a lot less years. But somehow I am able to go out and continue. Damn, and little did I know years ago I could have used these things as excuses. Sorry, teacher, I know I got an F but you have to excuse me because a close family member died 3 years ago.

Gimme a break. We all have bad things happen in our life.

Yeah, I remember the semester in college in which I turned 21 my grandfather died of cancer and my best friend was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I pulled well under a 2.00 GPA that semester (on a 4-point scale). Bad things happen in our lives, and sometimes they're pretty hard to cope with.

voodoochile
08-25-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


I knew this would come up. Boohoo, Frank has had to deal with divorce and death. I've had just as bad, and probably worse things happen in my life in a lot less years. But somehow I am able to go out and continue. Damn, and little did I know years ago I could have used these things as excuses. Sorry, teacher, I know I got an F but you have to excuse me because a close family member died 3 years ago.

Gimme a break. We all have bad things happen in our life.

Let's see if we can break this down - nice and slow. The effects of his father's illness and Frank's divorce were in 1998 and 1999. During that time he also had a bone spur the size of a walnut in his ankle, yet still managed to put up some pretty solid numbers, even if they were down years by Frank standards. Then in 2000 he has one of the best years of his career and gets jobbed out of the MVP because of Jason Giambi's first baseman's mitt (like PHG said, what a joke). Last year he has what for many is a career threatening injury and misses almost the entire season. Then he comes back this year and struggles, though his power numbers have remained pretty decent, if unspectacular (even though he is still probably dealing with depression from his Father's passing to boot - I speak from experience on this subject). Then people come along and start booing him and screaming about his 5 year slump (which has been proven to be a lie, but they keep bringing it up).

Now these same posters start distorting the facts to make their booing look even better. Look, I can't stop you from acting an ass when you are at the ballpark, but at least get your facts right when you are here at WSI and stop distorting the facts to make your case look better. No one claimed that Frank's problems of 3 years ago were the reason he was struggling today, but he has had a pretty rough stretch of it during these past 5 years and during that time he has had 2 pretty solid years, 1 MVP caliber season, 1 season almost completely lost to injury and one season where he clearly has struggled (immediately following the season he lost to a major injury). Go ahead and boo, but get your facts straight or just don't use them to defend your actions. You want to boo Frank, boo him, but be a man and admit the real reasons why or own up to the fact that you really don't know the facts and are just making crap up to make yourself feel better about booing the best hitter in Sox history...

I'll get off my soapbox now...

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Hell, Ted Williams was one of the greatest players of all time and he got boo by his own fans not because he played bad, just because they didn't like him. It would be interesting to see what some of the people here ( Not you Hal)would have felt about that back then. I was around when Ted played, and I (like the post above) was always amazed that Bostonians would boo a player that great. I thought they were idiots.


Originally posted by TornLabrum
Yeah, I remember the semester in college in which I turned 21 my grandfather died of cancer and my best friend was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I pulled well under a 2.00 GPA that semester (on a 4-point scale). Bad things happen in our lives, and sometimes they're pretty hard to cope with. And I'm quite certain that the bad times would not have been helped had people booed you for your academic performance.

Okay, you guys have no sympathy if he doesn't handle booing well. So you'd rather run him out of town or out of the game than see him return to form? Are the White Sox a better team without him, or with him returned to form? Booing is doing nothing to help, nothing.

RKMeibalane
08-25-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
I don't know if it's the injury, the steroids, the personal life, or all of the above, but he's obviously not the same player he used to be.

Frank Thomas doesn't use steroids. Even if he wanted to use them, I don't think he would be able to find any nearby. They've already been used up by someone else.

:shammy

"You rang?"

Moses_Scurry
08-26-2002, 08:31 AM
I will never boo any player (even Royce!) during introductions or when they step up to the plate. I only boo when the players do stupid things that may cost the team the game. If someone makes a crucial error on a routine play I will boo, no matter who it is. If anyone makes a stupid baserunning mistake I will boo, no matter who it is. If anyone swings for the fences and strikes out when moving along the runner is more important, I will boo, no matter who it is.

It's not the player who is getting booed, it's the effort. Booing Frank just for the hell of it is rediculous. But, if he does something stupid that could affect the outcome of the game, I will boo the stupidity, not Frank himself.

RedPinStripes
08-26-2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Moses_Scurry
I will never boo any player (even Royce!) during introductions or when they step up to the plate. I only boo when the players do stupid things that may cost the team the game. If someone makes a crucial error on a routine play I will boo, no matter who it is. If anyone makes a stupid baserunning mistake I will boo, no matter who it is. If anyone swings for the fences and strikes out when moving along the runner is more important, I will boo, no matter who it is.

It's not the player who is getting booed, it's the effort. Booing Frank just for the hell of it is rediculous. But, if he does something stupid that could affect the outcome of the game, I will boo the stupidity, not Frank himself.

That's exactly where i'm coming from. But i have boo-ed Royce just for being in the line-up. lol

TornLabrum
08-26-2002, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


That's exactly where i'm coming from. But i have boo-ed Royce just for being in the line-up. lol

Hasn't everybody?

RedPinStripes
08-26-2002, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


Hasn't everybody?

Everyone but a select few on this board. AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! :)

TornLabrum
08-26-2002, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Everyone but a select few on this board. AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! :)

That's enough to make me lose my faith in humanity!

ma-gaga
08-26-2002, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Moses_Scurry
I only boo when the players do stupid things that may cost the team the game. If someone makes a crucial error on a routine play I will boo, no matter who it is. If anyone makes a stupid baserunning mistake I will boo, no matter who it is.

It's not the player who is getting booed, it's the effort.


This is what I'll 'boo' for as well. I don't care about his past glory or his past failures, if the guy plays hard I'll cheer, if he plays lazily and makes mistakes I'll boo. The bone-headed mistakes are the ones that deserve boo-ing. Here is my example then I'll shut up:

A player, we'll call him 'Guzman' gets a single. Next guy up hits a line drive shot which hangs a little towards left field. Guzman takes off and is just about at second base when the left-fielder makes the catch. Guzman panics when he see's the catch in front of him. He turns around and slowly starts 'jogging' back, because he is dead to rights and the throw is going to beat him by 20 feet.

Sure enough, the left fielders throw goes skipping past the first baseman and bounces around the walls a bit, the catcher who backed up the throw retrieves the ball and throws Guzman out at first. Any effort and he would have been safe. He got boo-ed pretty badly there.

My favorite quote about playing baseball is: "It doesn't cost you anything to hustle." Every play, every routine grounder, every time. Crap, the last play of the August 20th game, Frank hit a little pop-up between the first baseman and the pitcher. It dropped, when it looked like it should have been caught, but the first baseman, we'll call him 'David Ortiz' ran off the base 10-12 feet, picked up the ball, then ran back to first base and Thomas was the final out of the game. The thing that burned me, was that it wasn't even a close play, Thomas lolly-gagged it. He got boo-ed, and I don't blame the fans at all. How do you think his teammates feel about this kind of effort? How do you think that kid in AA feels about not getting a shot because of that kind of effort?

Plus there is a lot of resentment out there right now. Frank Thomas is a 'greedy ballplayer' who is going to strike because he's not being paid enough money. It's not fair, and it's absolutely wrong, but a lot of people think this way.

Whatever, make an effort, don't hurt your team. :)

voodoochile
08-26-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga



This is what I'll 'boo' for as well. I don't care about his past glory or his past failures, if the guy plays hard I'll cheer, if he plays lazily and makes mistakes I'll boo. The bone-headed mistakes are the ones that deserve boo-ing. Here is my example then I'll shut up:

A player, we'll call him 'Guzman' gets a single. Next guy up hits a line drive shot which hangs a little towards left field. Guzman takes off and is just about at second base when the left-fielder makes the catch. Guzman panics when he see's the catch in front of him. He turns around and slowly starts 'jogging' back, because he is dead to rights and the throw is going to beat him by 20 feet.

Sure enough, the left fielders throw goes skipping past the first baseman and bounces around the walls a bit, the catcher who backed up the throw retrieves the ball and throws Guzman out at first. Any effort and he would have been safe. He got boo-ed pretty badly there.

My favorite quote about playing baseball is: "It doesn't cost you anything to hustle." Every play, every routine grounder, every time. Crap, the last play of the August 20th game, Frank hit a little pop-up between the first baseman and the pitcher. It dropped, when it looked like it should have been caught, but the first baseman, we'll call him 'David Ortiz' ran off the base 10-12 feet, picked up the ball, then ran back to first base and Thomas was the final out of the game. The thing that burned me, was that it wasn't even a close play, Thomas lolly-gagged it. He got boo-ed, and I don't blame the fans at all. How do you think his teammates feel about this kind of effort? How do you think that kid in AA feels about not getting a shot because of that kind of effort?

Plus there is a lot of resentment out there right now. Frank Thomas is a 'greedy ballplayer' who is going to strike because he's not being paid enough money. It's not fair, and it's absolutely wrong, but a lot of people think this way.

Whatever, make an effort, don't hurt your team. :)

I have no problem with that. Booing lack of effort or stupidity is different than booing one player over and over because they are struggling. I didn't see the play in question with Frank, but enough people are talking about it. If this indeed an accurate description, then yes, Frank deserves to be booed for it. But booing him every time he comes up, because he isn't living up to past standards is ridiculous, IMO, but again, that is just IMO. Others disagree, and that is there right...

hold2dibber
08-26-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


People boo because they are not satisfied with poor play. What do you want my reaction to be? I help pay this guys 10 mil...er 500 thousand dollar a year salary with the cash I spend at the ballpark & I tend to get dissappointed when the players don't put out.

I don't mind booing, but only if it is deserved based on a lack of effort on a particular play. If Frank Thomas (or anyone else) makes an out, booing that player is, frankly, stupid. First, unless you have a reason to think the player wasn't giving it all, what the hell do you think it will accomplish? In most cases, I would venture that it will not help your team's player to perform better in the future and may in fact cause the player's performance to deteriorate (especially if the undeserved booing is repeated again and again). Frank is not untouchable - if I was at a game and he didn't slide into home on a close play, I'd let him have it. But to boo him just because he's having a bad year, particularly when all signs suggest that he is taking extra BP and trying like hell to right the ship, is unfair, unproductive, and simply idiotic. It's just as dumb as a flubs fan cheering a player no matter what.

TornLabrum
08-26-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I don't mind booing, but only if it is deserved based on a lack of effort on a particular play. If Frank Thomas (or anyone else) makes an out, booing that player is, frankly, stupid. First, unless you have a reason to think the player wasn't giving it all, what the hell do you think it will accomplish? In most cases, I would venture that it will not help your team's player to perform better in the future and may in fact cause the player's performance to deteriorate (especially if the undeserved booing is repeated again and again). Frank is not untouchable - if I was at a game and he didn't slide into home on a close play, I'd let him have it. But to boo him just because he's having a bad year, particularly when all signs suggest that he is taking extra BP and trying like hell to right the ship, is unfair, unproductive, and simply idiotic. It's just as dumb as a flubs fan cheering a player no matter what.

How about this?

Scenario 1: Frank pops out with men on base to end the game. He swung but got under the ball. He tried. Boo? No.

Scenario 2: Frank Ks swinging. He tried but failed. Boo? No.

Scenario 3: Frank Ks looking at a wicked curve ball. He failed but was completely fooled. Boo? No.

Scenario 4: Frank Ks looking at a fastball right down Broadway, holding the bat on his shoulder. Boo? If you'd like.

hold2dibber
08-26-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


How about this?

Scenario 1: Frank pops out with men on base to end the game. He swung but got under the ball. He tried. Boo? No.

Scenario 2: Frank Ks swinging. He tried but failed. Boo? No.

Scenario 3: Frank Ks looking at a wicked curve ball. He failed but was completely fooled. Boo? No.

Scenario 4: Frank Ks looking at a fastball right down Broadway, holding the bat on his shoulder. Boo? If you'd like.

I agree entirely. But right now, some Sox "fans" boo Frank every time he makes an out, period. That is absurd and offensive.

guillen4life13
08-26-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I agree entirely. But right now, some Sox "fans" boo Frank every time he makes an out, period. That is absurd and offensive.

you said it man!

Mathew
08-27-2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Not true.

I didn't verbally boo him until he dogged the last out of the game which he would have been safe at first on tuesday night. He don't run everything out when he's frustrated. he's too busy bitchig himslef out down the line.

I do the same in softball when i pop-up but no one expects me to put up Thomas like #'s and i'm not getting paid.


That game was brutal, but he ran hard on pop-ups today, if it means anything.