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View Full Version : Let's talk about baserunning, baby. Let's talk about you and me (watching in horror!)


aryzner
05-29-2015, 08:32 AM
Yes the defense has been a huge problem. But this thread is about baserunning.

Seriously, folks. When in the hell is this going to stop? Will it stop? Is it possible?

After watching both Adam LaRoche and Gordon Beckham run into a couple more outs yet again yesterday by attempting plays that would only work in Little League, I felt the need to make a thread.

What's it going to take to make a change? Are these not professional baseball players? It's infuriating watching these baserunning gaffes every single game. Every out matters. Every out matters a lot. Who's going to tell that to the White Sox?

Please use this thread to vent just like I have. Maybe we can even strike up a discussion, but would it be of any use to us?

The Immigrant
05-29-2015, 10:09 AM
I wouldn't call LaRoche's out something that you only see in Little League. That's a move that usually works out for the runner, with the CF basically being on the warning track when he caught the ball. It's just that Jones threw an absolute laser to get him at 3rd. That happens in baseball. It doesn't mean that LaRoche was wrong for trying to get to 3rd with only one out in the inning. I think a lot of us would have been pissed off at him if he stayed at 2nd and Jones made a sub-par throw to the cutoff man.

#1swisher
05-29-2015, 10:11 AM
Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes (https://twitter.com/CSNHayes) 17h (https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/604052837321031680)
Adam LaRoche tagged just fine. But Gordon Beckham went part way, slipped & was thrown out. Two outs, man on 3rd instead of 1st & 3rd, 1 out.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2015, 11:37 AM
Talked with Ken Berry last night, am hoping to get enough feedback in order to do a story for the CBM on the decline in fundamentals.

Berry told me a lot of interesting things, one of which is that he learned from Eddie Stanky that you never give outs away, you only have 27 of them. You always want to put pressure on a defense but you simply have to be smart about it and pick the time when it's in your favor.

The Sox have been giving away far to many outs both offensively and defensively. It doesn't seem to be improving and the manager and staff appear to be doing nothing to help correct it.

Lip

Noneck
05-29-2015, 12:07 PM
The Sox hire a base running coach and things seem to be worse than last year, more base running mistakes and less stolen bases. Either the base running coach is no good or these guys are a lost cause.

amsteel
05-29-2015, 12:59 PM
The Sox are 11.7 runs below average in baserunning (a win is roughly worth 10 runs, so baserunning has cost them a little over a win if you're into looking at it that way) and the next worst team is 6.8 runs below average.

The worst team in all of last year was 14.5 runs below average, and the Sox were second worst with 14.2 runs below average. Or in other words the Sox' baserunning has cumulatively been bad in 45ish games so far this year than in the entirety of last season.

In a historical context the worst baserunning team since 1969 are the 2010 Royals with 28.4 runs below average. The Sox are on pace to obliterate that with 41.2 baserunning runs below average, so truly this team to this point is historically bad at running the bases.

FUN FACT: The second worst baserunning team since 1969? The 2008 White Sox!

FUN FACT 2: It's been 15 years since the Sox were an above average baserunning team

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=1969&ind=1&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=18,a

harwar
05-29-2015, 02:15 PM
Talked with Ken Berry last night, am hoping to get enough feedback in order to do a story for the CBM on the decline in fundamentals.

Berry told me a lot of interesting things, one of which is that he learned from Eddie Stanky that you never give outs away, you only have 27 of them. You always want to put pressure on a defense but you simply have to be smart about it and pick the time when it's in your favor.

Lip


Ken Berry was a boyhood hero of mine, and my absolute all time favorite White Sox player .. i was at the game where he went over that wall they had in center, while making the catch .. he was the reason that i played center in babe ruth, high school and in connie mack, or where ever i could play .. no play is more exciting to me than when a center fielder makes a great play..

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2015, 02:17 PM
It seems in the last 8 years or so that we have had some really dumb players and some very bad coaches. I also wonder what the hell is being taught in the Minor Leagues. Wouldn't it be great if we had a system like the Cardinals for example. It's no fluke that the Cards are constantly making the post season while teams like ours fight to be a .500 team.

JohnTucker0814
05-29-2015, 02:31 PM
Every out you give up or make an error on the base path is essentially worth 3.7% of the game. If the Sox make 2 errors in the field and 1 error on the base path (average for this team per game it seems) we are giving the opponent an additional 11.1% of extra game to be played. So now we are playing with 96.3% on offense and 107.4% on defense. You can't give a major league team an extra 10% of the game to work with, you won't win many games.

Does that even make sense? As I wrote it, I'm questioning it.

Chez
05-29-2015, 02:34 PM
I had assumed that with De Aza no longer on the team, the base running would have improved!

Lip Man 1
05-29-2015, 03:20 PM
It seems in the last 8 years or so that we have had some really dumb players and some very bad coaches. I also wonder what the hell is being taught in the Minor Leagues. Wouldn't it be great if we had a system like the Cardinals for example. It's no fluke that the Cards are constantly making the post season while teams like ours fight to be a .500 team.

Mark Gonzales gave me this notation that I'll use in the story: For instance, the Cardinals take batting practice at home earlier than most teams so those who need extra work can do so after regular BP or have extra time for treatment.

Lip