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Daver
08-20-2002, 05:01 PM
Dave Kindred hints that it may be part of the owners plan. (http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20020819.html)

rmusacch
08-20-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by daver
Dave Kindred hints that it may be part of the owners plan. (http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20020819.html)

Yeah I saw the same thing on espn.com. It said something like 8 of the owners are prepared to sit out the season.

Randar68
08-20-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by daver
Dave Kindred hints that it may be part of the owners plan. (http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20020819.html)

Maybe I'll have time to get out and see more of the minor leagues and spend more time in the great outdoors.

Strike away!

rmusacch
08-20-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by daver
Dave Kindred hints that it may be part of the owners plan. (http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20020819.html)

That would be a big mistake if they did that cancelling two World Series in a row. I would probably still come back just as fervent unlike a lot of people.

hold2dibber
08-20-2002, 05:32 PM
As much as I would miss baseball, the game is so screwed up right now, I almost would rather have it taken away for a year if that would fix it so that every team was on even footing financially.

Randar68
08-20-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


That would be a big mistake if they did that canceling two World Series in a row. I would probably still come back just as fervent unlike a lot of people.

There are NO players ready to sit out, with no pay, for a full season, fiscally. I have little doubt this would break the union. However, the owners are not likely to be able to do this either.

It might be a big slap in the face for a lot of these premadonna's, and they certainly need it.

Daver
08-20-2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


There are NO players ready to sit out, with no pay, for a full season, fiscally. I have little doubt this would break the union. However, the owners are not likely to be able to do this either.

It might be a big slap in the face for a lot of these premadonna's, and they certainly need it.

The players are more prepared to do it than the owners are though,and that is where the line will be drawn.

The owners will cave,they always do.

cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by daver
The owners will cave,they always do.

I have a feeling you're right, which sucks. There are just too many debt-laden clubs with loans to pay, and some of them probably to MLB itself.

Iguana775
08-20-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by daver


The players are more prepared to do it than the owners are though,and that is where the line will be drawn.

The owners will cave,they always do.

a lot of the owners still have to pay for their park and other expenses. and that would be a major burden without the revenue of a season. the players, if invested properly and saved their money, they will be fine. it is the owners that will be SOL if there is not season next summer.

Randar68
08-20-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


I have a feeling you're right, which sucks. There are just too many debt-laden clubs with loans to pay, and some of them probably to MLB itself.

I'm not so sure this time. I know, I know....

However, the owners are pretty darn united. In addition, I'm not so sure they aren't willing to use MLB as a whole to hold up the clubs in trouble to keep that unity (not sure on legal ramifications of this)

Daver
08-20-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I'm not so sure this time. I know, I know....

However, the owners are pretty darn united. In addition, I'm not so sure they aren't willing to use MLB as a whole to hold up the clubs in trouble to keep that unity (not sure on legal ramifications of this)

The legal ramifications mean nothing when compared to the PR and image damage that will occur if they chose to shut down the game for an entire year IMO.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©

voodoochile
08-20-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775


a lot of the owners still have to pay for their park and other expenses. and that would be a major burden without the revenue of a season. the players, if invested properly and saved their money, they will be fine. it is the owners that will be SOL if there is not season next summer.

I still think they will consider using replacement players if they have to. That will cause the union to cave faster and allow the owners to at least recup some of their expenses. Don't know where they will get the players, but like last time, some of them will come from the minor leagues, though it will probably be older players who don't think they stand a chance to ever play in the majors. If you think the owners will sit passively by and let next year go down the tubes, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...

cheeses_h_rice
08-20-2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I still think they will consider using replacement players if they have to.

At least this will allow us Sox fans the possibility of watching Royce Clayton play SS for one more year.

voodoochile
08-20-2002, 06:16 PM
Look for the owners to lock the players out, the minute the season is over regardless of if the players are on strike or not - unless of course they settle this thing in time to finish the season (I kill me)...

Randar68
08-20-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775


a lot of the owners still have to pay for their park and other expenses. and that would be a major burden without the revenue of a season. the players, if invested properly and saved their money, they will be fine. it is the owners that will be SOL if there is not season next summer.

It only takes 30-40 players who haven't planned properly (well within reason for a lot of these geniuses) to raise enough stink to start caving.

This notion from the players that the owners owe them everything they make in revenue is retarded. These people are BUSINESSMEN. They took the risk and put up the money as investment, and that gives them the right to make money and run their businesses as they see fit. I think it will be awfully hard for an arbitrator to rule that they are being mistreated or underpaid.

The airlines are falling apart, not because of 9/11, although it has accelerated it, but because of the extreme unionization of the labor industry. For 15 years, workers have been getting raises not commensurate with the inflation rate or growth rate of the industry. Now, and this has been coming for several years now, there aren't enough jobs, the unions can't layoff the senior and many-times less productive workers because of union contracts, etc, etc... They no longer have the ability to police themselves in a manner equivalent to the industry's growth or lack thereof.

Baseball Owners are in a similar manner. However, because they do not publish their numbers, they are in a situation where they cannot be trusted by the public or by their employees. However, that, again, does not exclude them of their right, as investors and businessmen, to a profit.


IMO, they need to publish the fiscal records. The players, at this point, have moved more than they have ever moved in terms of negotiating, and they have access to these records. Therefore, IMO, they have seen that there is an issue here that needs resolving. I don't care who/where you are, making the kind of money these players make, is rediculous to start with. The fact that they have the gall to bitch about it is even worse. On top of this, in today's economic climate, the fan pays for these tools.

Both sides are jackasses, but the players need to start giving on these issues to have any credibility. They aren't in this for the future of the game or future generations of players, they are in it for the here and now and the money they can make.

Randar68
08-20-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
some of them will come from the minor leagues, though it will probably be older players who don't think they stand a chance to ever play in the majors.

Maybe Carlos Chantres, Jason Dallearo, Mark Delasandro(sp) etc may get a chance to play!

voodoochile
08-20-2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Maybe Carlos Chantres, Jason Dallearo, Mark Delasandro(sp) etc may get a chance to play!

WOOOHOOO! World Champions here we come!!!

MarkEdward
08-20-2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Maybe Carlos Chantres, Jason Dallearo, Mark Delasandro(sp) etc may get a chance to play!

Isn't Dalesandro in the Union? He was with the Sox last year, albeit for a short time.

Daver
08-20-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward


Isn't Dalesandro in the Union? He was with the Sox last year, albeit for a short time.

Yes he is.

Iguana775
08-20-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


At least this will allow us Sox fans the possibility of watching Royce Clayton play SS for one more year.

LMAO!!!!

Moses_Scurry
08-21-2002, 08:24 AM
2 Questions:

1. If replacement players are used and the Sox win the World Series, will the 85 year drought be finished or will it be erased from all records and fans' memories?

2. If replacement players are used, will Wrigley fields average attendance quadruple the average attendance of the second highest team?

Dadawg_77
08-21-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


It only takes 30-40 players who haven't planned properly (well within reason for a lot of these geniuses) to raise enough stink to start caving.

This notion from the players that the owners owe them everything they make in revenue is retarded. These people are BUSINESSMEN. They took the risk and put up the money as investment, and that gives them the right to make money and run their businesses as they see fit. I think it will be awfully hard for an arbitrator to rule that they are being mistreated or underpaid.

The airlines are falling apart, not because of 9/11, although it has accelerated it, but because of the extreme unionization of the labor industry. For 15 years, workers have been getting raises not commensurate with the inflation rate or growth rate of the industry. Now, and this has been coming for several years now, there aren't enough jobs, the unions can't layoff the senior and many-times less productive workers because of union contracts, etc, etc... They no longer have the ability to police themselves in a manner equivalent to the industry's growth or lack thereof.

Baseball Owners are in a similar manner. However, because they do not publish their numbers, they are in a situation where they cannot be trusted by the public or by their employees. However, that, again, does not exclude them of their right, as investors and businessmen, to a profit.


IMO, they need to publish the fiscal records. The players, at this point, have moved more than they have ever moved in terms of negotiating, and they have access to these records. Therefore, IMO, they have seen that there is an issue here that needs resolving. I don't care who/where you are, making the kind of money these players make, is ridiculous to start with. The fact that they have the gall to bitch about it is even worse. On top of this, in today's economic climate, the fan pays for these tools.

Both sides are jackasses, but the players need to start giving on these issues to have any credibility. They aren't in this for the future of the game or future generations of players, they are in it for the here and now and the money they can make.

You may of forget one thing, the player are in a highly skilled profession, like pilots. Unlike PHG at the fryer, it will hard to replace them with the same level of quality the current employees process. The high cost of labor is cause by this high level skill needed which creates a the minute pool of acceptble employees and the fact the business drives billions of dollars in revenue each year. The reason that salaries have skyrocketed over the past 20 years is in the past owners have used artificial limits, such as reserved clause to limit their cost of labor. But when the free market forces became the driving force behind the cost of labor, the salaries rose because before the cost was caped was very low compared with what a free market could bear.

Yes, the owners have a right to a profit but the players have the right to demand what they want for compensation. Owners don't have to pay it, and the players don't have to accept the owners offer. This is the same rights we have at our jobs today, just we (most of us) don't pocess high enough skill level to warrent million dollar contracts. But if the players and owners want make maoney with baseball, they need to work together to find a common ground.

The problem with these talks is a total lack of trust. The owners of baseball have been saying they have been losing money since day one, 1892 and cost of labor is to high. Well, it becomes the boy who cried wolf syndrome. Back in the 80's the owners sang the same tune, but they open their books to the union. Well the union hired a professor from Harvard and he basically tore apart MLB books to show that in reality, MLB was making millions in profit not losing millions as they claimed.

Also mismanagement has lot to do, with fall of the airlines. Labor cost have a part, but their effect could be contained with a lot better management. Part of the reason you see airline execs blaming labor cost and 9/11 for their foes, is they don't want take their share of the blame.