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View Full Version : Did Hawk Speak "Out Of Turn?"


Lip Man 1
08-20-2002, 05:46 PM
As you recall I posted that my initial impression for the reason Hawk missed the Oakland series was because he might have said something that was overheard by the wrong person or that perhaps he was scouting a new field or general manager for Uncle Jerry.

Paul Sullivan had this bit of news in the "Ask Paul Sullivan" section of the Tribune today...

"So, what is the big secret about Ken Harrelson's missing weekend? --Walt Didomenico, Deerfield Beach, Fla.

Can't say because it's top secret and I don't want to be put on double-secret probation by the Sox. But I did happen to hear a tape of an interview with the Hawk on WSCR while coming home after Monday night's game. He was talking about what a "poor season" manager Jerry Manuel is having, which was interesting because I've never heard him criticize Manuel during a Sox telecast. Has he mentioned whether Ken Williams is having a "poor season"? If so, let me know.

Hmmmmmmmm.......

If you recall the newspapers reporter that when the beat writers asked where Hawk was, the Sox refused to say, which I thought was odd because if he was at a golf tournament (which is what the organization subsequently said), then why keep it a secret. I mean what's the big deal about him representing the Sox at a golf outing?

Me thinks there is more to this story then meets the eye!

Lip

Foulke You
08-20-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As you recall I posted that my initial impression for the reason Hawk missed the Oakland series was because he might have said something that was overheard by the wrong person or that perhaps he was scouting a new field or general manager for Uncle Jerry.

Paul Sullivan had this bit of news in the "Ask Paul Sullivan" section of the Tribune today...

"So, what is the big secret about Ken Harrelson's missing weekend? --Walt Didomenico, Deerfield Beach, Fla.

Can't say because it's top secret and I don't want to be put on double-secret probation by the Sox. But I did happen to hear a tape of an interview with the Hawk on WSCR while coming home after Monday night's game. He was talking about what a "poor season" manager Jerry Manuel is having, which was interesting because I've never heard him criticize Manuel during a Sox telecast. Has he mentioned whether Ken Williams is having a "poor season"? If so, let me know.

Hmmmmmmmm.......

If you recall the newspapers reporter that when the beat writers asked where Hawk was, the Sox refused to say, which I thought was odd because if he was at a golf tournament (which is what the organization subsequently said), then why keep it a secret. I mean what's the big deal about him representing the Sox at a golf outing?

Me thinks there is more to this story then meets the eye!

Lip

I agree. Something was fishy about that whole missing Hawk thing. If it was indeed a golf tournament, how come Farmer and Rooney didn't say that Wills would be filling in for Rooney in the days leading up to the Oakland series? It was never mentioned on air for both the radio or TV. They just said "on assignment" which is what people say until they can come up with an excuse.

I also heard that scathing interview with J.Hood on the Score. He was ripping Manuel pretty good in a very un-Hawk like way. He didn't rip KW though. He pretty much laid the blame on Jerry Manuel. I think Hawk has more respect for the difficulty of the GM position since he failed horribly at it which is why he won't rip on KW (that's our job!). I was proud to hear him rip on JM though.

:hawk
"The GM isn't out there filling the lineup card every day. The GM isn't yanking the pitcher out after 100 pitches no matter what.
Y'know J.Hood I just don't understand why you have to take a pitcher out of the game when he hits 100 pitches regardless of how he's pitching. I just don't get it. This is bad for the pitcher on so many levels because it gets them conditioned to getting bailed out early. They hit 100 pitches and they feel like 'maybe I'm getting tired' or 'I don't have anything to worry about past the 6th inning.' It's a terrible philosophy for a manager to have."

NUKE_CLEVELAND
08-20-2002, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You



:hawk
"The GM isn't out there filling the lineup card every day. The GM isn't yanking the pitcher out after 100 pitches no matter what.
Y'know J.Hood I just don't understand why you have to take a pitcher out of the game when he hits 100 pitches regardless of how he's pitching. I just don't get it. This is bad for the pitcher on so many levels because it gets them conditioned to getting bailed out early. They hit 100 pitches and they feel like 'maybe I'm getting tired' or 'I don't have anything to worry about past the 6th inning.' It's a terrible philosophy for a manager to have."

TSK TSK HAWK!

Don't you know better than to speak your mind? All KW wants is ass-kissers & yes-men in his organ-i-zation.

duke of dorwood
08-21-2002, 07:55 AM
:reinsy

No opinions allowed-just gleefully report the crap on the field

KingXerxes
08-21-2002, 09:26 AM
I don't think for one minute that Harrelson was suspended for speaking ill of Jerry Manuel. He may have been given the weekend off as to give the appearance of a suspension, but in no way was it legitimate. Here is the usual modus operandi of this organization:

Harrelson will become increasingly critical of of Jerry Manuel as time goes on. This is at the direction of Reinsdorf/Williams - because management wants to get rid of Manuel, but want to make sure that as few fans as possible are alienated by the move.

Ken Harrelson is Jerry Reinsdorf's biggest lackey and his eyes and ears in the media. For some reason unbeknownst to me, Reinsdorf thinks Harrelson actually has an influence on White Sox fans, and will try to use Harrelson whenever he can to exert that influence. Believe me, nothing that comes out of Harrelson's mouth is spontaneous - he is part of a very calculating culture at Comiskey Park.

IMHO Harrelson does have an influence on White Sox fans - and not much of it is good. Can anybody truly deny the fact that your daily television play-by-play guy is one of your biggest marketing tools out there? Ken Harrelson's act got tired when he was still doing color commentary with Don Drysdale - yet here he still is.

ps - Where did Ken Harrelson's trademark "Mercy!" come from?

One of his first sidekicks - longtime Red Sox play by play man Ned Martin used it all the time (even in his pre-Harrelson days).

Nothing with some people is what it appears to be.

Foulke You
08-21-2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I don't think for one minute that Harrelson was suspended for speaking ill of Jerry Manuel. He may have been given the weekend off as to give the appearance of a suspension, but in no way was it legitimate. Here is the usual modus operandi of this organization:

Harrelson will become increasingly critical of of Jerry Manuel as time goes on. This is at the direction of Reinsdorf/Williams - because management wants to get rid of Manuel, but want to make sure that as few fans as possible are alienated by the move.

Ken Harrelson is Jerry Reinsdorf's biggest lackey and his eyes and ears in the media. For some reason unbeknownst to me, Reinsdorf thinks Harrelson actually has an influence on White Sox fans, and will try to use Harrelson whenever he can to exert that influence. Believe me, nothing that comes out of Harrelson's mouth is spontaneous - he is part of a very calculating culture at Comiskey Park.

IMHO Harrelson does have an influence on White Sox fans - and not much of it is good. Can anybody truly deny the fact that your daily television play-by-play guy is one of your biggest marketing tools out there? Ken Harrelson's act got tired when he was still doing color commentary with Don Drysdale - yet here he still is.

ps - Where did Ken Harrelson's trademark "Mercy!" come from?

One of his first sidekicks - longtime Red Sox play by play man Ned Martin used it all the time (even in his pre-Harrelson days).

Nothing with some people is what it appears to be.

Well, I understand that Hawk isn't everyone's cup of tea and I can't blame someone like Xerxes for having criticisms of him. For the most part he is an organization first type of guy who would never knowingly rip the ownership or GM on the air. What you can't argue with is that Hawk is passionate about the Sox and is not someone who is just doing a job for a paycheck. He really cares about the White Sox and wants to see a winner badly. He supposedly takes Sox losses extremely hard and after a tough loss doesn't sleep at night and reviews the scorebook to see what went wrong. Somehow, I can't picture our field manager Jerry Manuel showing this much passion about our team. I think Manuel sleeps like a baby after watching Royce strike out with the bases loaded in the 9th with a chance to win the game. I'll take passion in the booth any day of the week.

Also, there is a chance we all could be reading too much into the missing Hawk weekend. It could've been a personal related issue that he didn't want known. Y'know, maybe he needed some kind of medical procedure done or a problem with his family.

KingXerxes
08-21-2002, 01:48 PM
Foulke You - Here is my problem with both Harrelson and your last observation of him. I don't believe for one minute that Harrelson is as passionate about the White Sox as you think he is. Was he this passionate about the Red Sox when he did games with Stockton and Martin? My guess is that he was. The man is PASSION FOR HIRE, and that's what's at the core of my problems with him. He's a holographic image of a guy who cares, and if one starts looking slightly beyond the surface, they start seeing his arrogance. He masks his opinions as folksy common sense, and then belittles anyone who dare go against his opinions. Believe me, his connection to Reinsdorf goes waaaaaaaaay beyond what one would consider a run of the mill broadcaster/team owner relationship. The fact that Reinsdorf made him a GM, and then allowed him back in the booth just a couple of years after he collossally screwed things up is more proof than you should need of a boss/lackey relationship.

KingXerxes
08-21-2002, 05:07 PM
:hawk

"Now I know that Ol' King Xerxes is out there accusin' me of being Mister Reinsdorf's lackey - but let the Ol' Hawkeroo put all of that to rest right now........for good. I am not Lackey, but I did know a guy named Lackey. He pitched for the Ol' Philadelphia Athletics of the Ol' American Association back when I was just breaking into this game. Back then, rookies never broke into this game and that made it difficult because your first year in the majors you weren't allowed to be a rookie. Now I know that don't make much sense to all you folks who haven't been around for as long as I have in this game, and because of that I think Jerry Manuel should be fired, and Darryl Boston should take his place........how was that Mister Reinsdorf?"

:reinsy

"Very good Ken, very good."

Tragg
08-21-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes

Harrelson will become increasingly critical of of Jerry Manuel as time goes on. This is at the direction of Reinsdorf/Williams - because management wants to get rid of Manuel, but want to make sure that as few fans as possible are alienated by the move.

.

That would be okay with me if the major culprit, the incompetent Kenny Williams, were the target.

soxtalker
08-21-2002, 11:09 PM
I haven't really noticed a groundswell of support for JM on either the radio talk shows or this board. The discussion seems to bounce between those who say he should be run out of town and those who say it isn't his fault (i.e., KW or JR instead). (I fit into the latter category, though I understand how JM's laid back attitude drives some people crazy.) The point is that if JM got fired at the end of the season, there wouldn't be a tremendous uproar of discontent. So, I don't see what difference it would make for Hawk to raise the anti-JM banner.

One side comment to all those to really want to see JM go -- if KW leaves, JM will almost certainly go also. That seems to have been the case for every change of GM we've had in the past 20 years.

TornLabrum
08-21-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker


One side comment to all those to really want to see JM go -- if KW leaves, JM will almost certainly go also. That seems to have been the case for every change of GM we've had in the past 20 years.

Gen. Disarray was a Schueler hire. Prof. Chaos has yet to install a manager.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Prof. Chaos has yet to install a manager.

That's coming very soon.

Won't be pretty either.

soxtalker
08-21-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


Gen. Disarray was a Schueler hire. Prof. Chaos has yet to install a manager.

Ah! My mistake. Then JM is almost surely on the way out. And that provides an excuse to keep KW in there for another year or two...

TornLabrum
08-21-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker


Ah! My mistake. Then JM is almost surely on the way out. And that provides an excuse to keep KW in there for another year or two...

You can believe Prof. Chaos when he says Gen. Disarray will be around through 2003. He's signed through 2004, and ain't no way The Chairman is gonna fork over 2 years salary for anyone to sit.

Foulke You
08-22-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


You can believe Prof. Chaos when he says Gen. Disarray will be around through 2003. He's signed through 2004, and ain't no way The Chairman is gonna fork over 2 years salary for anyone to sit.

I don't know if I can take 2 more years of corpseball KW style. The longer his tenure goes without winning, the more likely he'll be to make stupid trades in a vain effort to improve the club. The future is bleak through 2004. I just don't see this boob assembling a winning club.

THE_HOOTER
08-22-2002, 01:29 PM
Talk about over-analyzing a situation!!

Hawk played in a golf tournament over the weekend on the South Side of Chicago.

I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

ode to veeck
08-22-2002, 02:09 PM
Prof. Chaos has yet to install a manager.

Given what he did at SS and with our pitching staff the last two years, I am terrified to think what he could do to us at the manager's spot

cheeses_h_rice
08-22-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck


Given what he did at SS and with our pitching staff the last two years, I am terrified to think what he could do to us at the manager's spot

:KW

Hmm...I wonder what Terry Bevington is up to these days?

Foulke You
08-22-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Talk about over-analyzing a situation!!

Hawk played in a golf tournament over the weekend on the South Side of Chicago.

I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

:hawk
"Hooter, I love it when you analyze!"

Cheryl
08-22-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER

Hawk played in a golf tournament over the weekend on the South Side of Chicago.

I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

Then why not just announce that? I believe you, but couldn't they just announce he's off playing golf?

RKMeibalane
08-22-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


Then why not just announce that? I believe you, but couldn't they just announce he's off playing golf?

Reinsdorf was afraid some fans would go watch Hawk play golf, instead of watching the Sox telecasts during the weekend.

:reinsy

"You people had better watch the games. It's the least you can do, because none of you want to come to games. If you don't tune in to anymore Sox games, I will bring back Terry Bevington as manager. Hahahahaha!"