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Dadawg_77
08-20-2002, 02:45 PM
The Rule is ...
The metaphysical truth that "whenever something good begins to happen for the Sox, disaster is about to occur".

I have been pondering this since the Clayton thread discussing whether there is any hope for a Sox fan. Since I believe for us to exist in the world as Sox Fans, we need hope. Thus is The H. Vikery's Law is correct there is no reason to be a fan. Unless it is better to have been a fan and lost then to never have been a fan. So in my thinking, I think I found a common thread through out the Sox, that might help explain why after a positive reaction, a equal (but feels stronger) negative reaction occurs.

Thus an idea for the mathematical formula for H. Vickery's Law

G = Prm * (Cm * Ma )+ K

G = Growth of Team Success Rate
Prm = Previous Season's Marginal Rate of Success (Winning %-.300)
Ma = Level of Management Action
Cm = Competency of Management
K = .300

Thus if the Sox have competent management, they will increase winning % over the years. I know this is nearly close to prefect, thus any comment or suggestion would be helpful in this mental exercise.

duke of dorwood
08-20-2002, 02:58 PM
Einstein who?

rmusacch
08-20-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Einstein who?

That is what I was thinking duke.

TornLabrum
08-20-2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Rule is ...
The metaphysical truth that "whenever something good begins to happen for the Sox, disaster is about to occur".

I have been pondering this since the Clayton thread discussing whether there is any hope for a Sox fan. Since I believe for us to exist in the world as Sox Fans, we need hope. Thus is The H. Vikery's Law is correct there is no reason to be a fan. Unless it is better to have been a fan and lost then to never have been a fan. So in my thinking, I think I found a common thread through out the Sox, that might help explain why after a positive reaction, a equal (but feels stronger) negative reaction occurs.

Thus an idea for the mathematical formula for H. Vickery's Law

G = Prm * (Cm * Ma )+ K

G = Growth of Team Success Rate
Prm = Previous Season's Marginal Rate of Success (Winning %-.300)
Ma = Level of Management Action
Cm = Competency of Management
K = .300

Thus if the Sox have competent management, they will increase winning % over the years. I know this is nearly close to prefect, thus any comment or suggestion would be helpful in this mental exercise.

You have entirely too much time on your hands.

doublem23
08-20-2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


You have entirely too much time on your hands.

Well, he is a Sox fan...

Not like they're trying too hard to capture our attention.

TornLabrum
08-20-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


That is what I was thinking duke.

The above being said, it does correlate. Charlie Comiskey was a relatively competent owner who managed to produce good teams during most of the first decade of the century. Then he got greedy and alienated Fielder Jones which led to several years of wandering in the desert until he made the deals that put together the Black Sox. Of course his greed got to him again and he ended up losing it all and was never able to recover.

J. Louis Comiskey took very little time to restore the Sox to respectability with Jimmy Dykes in the helm and a host of good players. Then he died and operations were taken over by widow Grace whose sole purpose was to have the team break even financially. It showed.

Then came the years when son Chuck and son-in-law John Rigney took over the reins as essentially co-GM's. That was the Go-Go-Sox Era which culminated in the Sox first pennant in 40 years. Of course John's wife, Dorothy, through treachery on the part of Grace got the majority of Sox stock when Grace died. She proceded to ace out Chuck and sell the club to Bill Veeck who wrongly gets the credit for the pennant.

Veeck and Hank Greenberg sold the farm to repeat and failed, and then sold the team to Art Allyn, who installed Ed Short as GM. I think Short did it with smoke and mirrors but the Sox kept winning until the magic ran out in '67.

Stu Holcomb and Roland Hemond helped put together the "Dick Allen" team. Veeck and Hemond put together the "Hitmen." but then rent-a-player failed and Veeck had to try to build from within. That led to Reinhorn/Einsdorf who, with Hemond, built the '83 division champs. A couple of tough years later and Hawk Harrelson was brought in and destroyed the franchise. He was replaced by Larry Himes who was definitely too competent to hold down such a menial job, so after four brilliant drafts, he was fired, and the less competent Ron Schueler was brought in. Still he managed a division championship in '00 and was replaced by the completely incompetent Prof. Chaos. So I guess the formula works.

Of course that's just a corollary to the general premise and does not account for such things as Jackie Hayes, Monty Stratton, and various other disasters.

doublem23
08-20-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Rule is ...
The metaphysical truth that "whenever something good begins to happen for the Sox, disaster is about to occur".

I have been pondering this since the Clayton thread discussing whether there is any hope for a Sox fan. Since I believe for us to exist in the world as Sox Fans, we need hope. Thus is The H. Vikery's Law is correct there is no reason to be a fan. Unless it is better to have been a fan and lost then to never have been a fan. So in my thinking, I think I found a common thread through out the Sox, that might help explain why after a positive reaction, a equal (but feels stronger) negative reaction occurs.

Thus an idea for the mathematical formula for H. Vickery's Law

G = Prm * (Cm * Ma )+ K

G = Growth of Team Success Rate
Prm = Previous Season's Marginal Rate of Success (Winning %-.300)
Ma = Level of Management Action
Cm = Competency of Management
K = .300

Thus if the Sox have competent management, they will increase winning % over the years. I know this is nearly close to prefect, thus any comment or suggestion would be helpful in this mental exercise.

Now there's a St. Patty's edjumacation. :cool:

Dadawg_77
08-20-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


You have entirely too much time on your hands.

Yes I do.

Foulke You
08-20-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The Rule is ...
The metaphysical truth that "whenever something good begins to happen for the Sox, disaster is about to occur".

I have been pondering this since the Clayton thread discussing whether there is any hope for a Sox fan. Since I believe for us to exist in the world as Sox Fans, we need hope. Thus is The H. Vikery's Law is correct there is no reason to be a fan. Unless it is better to have been a fan and lost then to never have been a fan. So in my thinking, I think I found a common thread through out the Sox, that might help explain why after a positive reaction, a equal (but feels stronger) negative reaction occurs.

Thus an idea for the mathematical formula for H. Vickery's Law

G = Prm * (Cm * Ma )+ K

G = Growth of Team Success Rate
Prm = Previous Season's Marginal Rate of Success (Winning %-.300)
Ma = Level of Management Action
Cm = Competency of Management
K = .300

Thus if the Sox have competent management, they will increase winning % over the years. I know this is nearly close to prefect, thus any comment or suggestion would be helpful in this mental exercise.

If we needed evidence to show that Sox fans are the more intelligent fans in town, here is exibit A.

:woo-woo
"I don't get it."

DVG
08-21-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You


If we needed evidence to show that Sox fans are the more intelligent fans in town, here is exibit A.

:woo-woo
"I don't get it."

Vickery, WOO!!! Law, WOO!!! Disaster, WOO!!! Grace, WOO!!!!
Stratton, WOO!!! Veeck, WOO!!! New Teeth, WOO!!!! Wind-
screens, WOO!!!! Nonsense, WOO!!! Babble, WOO!!!! Disturb-
ance, WOO!!!! Arrested, WOO!!!!! Jail, WOO!!!! Bail, WOO!!!!!
Lawyer, WOO!!!! Stop me, WOO!!!! Crazy, WOO WOO WOO
WOO WOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SI1020
08-27-2002, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum


The above being said, it does correlate. Charlie Comiskey was a relatively competent owner who managed to produce good teams during most of the first decade of the century. Then he got greedy and alienated Fielder Jones which led to several years of wandering in the desert until he made the deals that put together the Black Sox. Of course his greed got to him again and he ended up losing it all and was never able to recover.

J. Louis Comiskey took very little time to restore the Sox to respectability with Jimmy Dykes in the helm and a host of good players. Then he died and operations were taken over by widow Grace whose sole purpose was to have the team break even financially. It showed.

Then came the years when son Chuck and son-in-law John Rigney took over the reins as essentially co-GM's. That was the Go-Go-Sox Era which culminated in the Sox first pennant in 40 years. Of course John's wife, Dorothy, through treachery on the part of Grace got the majority of Sox stock when Grace died. She proceded to ace out Chuck and sell the club to Bill Veeck who wrongly gets the credit for the pennant.

Veeck and Hank Greenberg sold the farm to repeat and failed, and then sold the team to Art Allyn, who installed Ed Short as GM. I think Short did it with smoke and mirrors but the Sox kept winning until the magic ran out in '67.

Stu Holcomb and Roland Hemond helped put together the "Dick Allen" team. Veeck and Hemond put together the "Hitmen." but then rent-a-player failed and Veeck had to try to build from within. That led to Reinhorn/Einsdorf who, with Hemond, built the '83 division champs. A couple of tough years later and Hawk Harrelson was brought in and destroyed the franchise. He was replaced by Larry Himes who was definitely too competent to hold down such a menial job, so after four brilliant drafts, he was fired, and the less competent Ron Schueler was brought in. Still he managed a division championship in '00 and was replaced by the completely incompetent Prof. Chaos. So I guess the formula works.

Of course that's just a corollary to the general premise and does not account for such things as Jackie Hayes, Monty Stratton, and various other disasters. I know this is old, but congratulations for a supercondensed history of the White Sox. If anyone wants to try to write the definitive history of the team here is the outline. I think that the death of J. Louis and and even more important the coup d'etat that ousted Chuck were particularly bad deals for the Sox and their fans.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2002, 03:52 PM
It's already been done, a four part series (28 typed pages) on key dates in White Sox history. The best, the worst, the most bizarre.

Look for it in the archives.

Lip

Foulke You
08-27-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by SI1020
I know this is old, but congratulations for a supercondensed history of the White Sox. If anyone wants to try to write the definitive history of the team here is the outline. I think that the death of J. Louis and and even more important the coup d'etat that ousted Chuck were particularly bad deals for the Sox and their fans.

Besides the volumes of info on WSI you can read a great coffee table book called "The White Sox Encyclopedia" by Sox historian Rich Lindberg. It is just about the most information you are going to find about the Sox in one volume. It covers the team from 1900-1996. I got my copy at Borders but you can probably get it anywhere. The price is steep though as it is $60.