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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* SOX Lose to the Brew Crew


all*star quentin
05-11-2015, 09:36 PM
Final 10-7

I think the 6:20 P.M. start threw the team off. :tongue:

Win the series. :cool:

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2015, 09:42 PM
The Brewers have as many wins as the White Sox now.

Boondock Saint
05-11-2015, 09:42 PM
With this start, Jeff Samardzija's ERA has fallen to 4.80

He still leads the rotation in ERA.

amsteel
05-11-2015, 09:43 PM
The offense will score more runs, the bullpen will give up more runs, the starting pitching will...do something and the Sox will win 77 games.

I'm thinking Samardzija is earmarked for St Louis by mid June

Soxman219
05-11-2015, 09:45 PM
Sucks to comeback from 6-0 only to lose.:(:

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 09:46 PM
The offense will score more runs, the bullpen will give up more runs, the starting pitching will...do something and the Sox will win 77 games.

I'm thinking Samardzija is earmarked for St Louis by mid June


More like mid July I think.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 09:48 PM
2-12 now on the road. 2-12! Incredible.

Another big hole dug early by Shark. Bullpen suddenly looks human, throw in the customary Sox defense (two more errors) and you get a loss to a bad, bad team. (That has been playing much better...surprise, surprise, since they fired their manager.)

Lip

Noneck
05-11-2015, 09:52 PM
Loved the pick up of Samardzija but glad they waited and didnt long term him. He just doesnt look right and that was the same way in spring training. Guys going into contract years will hide injuries maybe hes doing that. I just dont want the Sox to end up getting no return on him if he doesnt turn it around.

amsteel
05-11-2015, 09:54 PM
More like mid July I think.

Lip

Ehhhh, he's definitely not in the top tier of SPs that could get moved at the deadline (and his value is falling) so they'll get better value for him with an earlier deal when the supply is smaller but the demand is there.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 09:55 PM
Loved the pick up of Samardzija but glad they waited and didnt long term him. He just doesnt look right and that was the same way in spring training. Guys going into contract years will hide injuries maybe hes doing that. I just dont want the Sox to end up getting no return on him if he doesnt turn it around.

Beginning to resemble Kenny's deal to get David Wells isn't it? The irony there of course is that as soon as Wells left the White Sox he got back to winning a lot of games for somebody else.

Wonder honestly how much of the Shark deal was Hahn and how much was Williams?

Lip

captain54
05-11-2015, 09:56 PM
2-12 now on the road. 2-12! Incredible.

Another big hole dug early by Shark. Bullpen suddenly looks human, throw in the customary Sox defense (two more errors) and you get a loss to a bad, bad team. (That has been playing much better...surprise, surprise, since they fired their manager.)

Lip

That's not a misprint.. TWO roads wins for the Sox so far in 15', and it's almost mid-May..

The Sox road record during the Ventura regime is 101-156

Noneck
05-11-2015, 09:56 PM
Wonder honestly how much of the Shark deal was Hahn and how much was Williams?

Lip


Or you know who.

Andrew C White
05-11-2015, 09:58 PM
Milwaukee tried hard to lose that game but I gotta give our guys credit. They weren't going to have any of that nonsense!

SoxSpeed22
05-11-2015, 10:01 PM
This team blows. What a wasted opportunity.

DumpJerry
05-11-2015, 10:02 PM
At one point early in the game, it was mentioned by Farmio and DJ that none of the Brewers on the field had more than two errors this season.

They could have said that none of the Sox players on the field have fewer than two errors over any given six inning stretch.

Irishsox1
05-11-2015, 10:02 PM
Another bad loss to a bad team that just fired their manager.

Sox back to 5 under .500

No idea how Ventura hasn't been fired yet.

Andrew C White
05-11-2015, 10:04 PM
Good Sox at home. Bad Sox on the road.

Although frankly... this should have counted as a home game listening to that crowd.

SOXBOY
05-11-2015, 10:14 PM
Very disappointing to come back from 6 down to tie and then have Duke implode...was at game looked like from video board Micah was safe and Gomez was out

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 10:15 PM
Another bad loss to a bad team that just fired their manager.

Sox back to 5 under .500

No idea how Ventura hasn't been fired yet.

Because loyalty is more important than accountability in the Sox organization.

Just look at how they are reacting defensively. Garcia over throws the cutoff man and a run scores. Fundamentals, something good high school and college teams have no trouble understanding and executing. The Sox keep making the same mistakes game after game after game. Not only physical errors (which are going to happen) but mental errors.

Yet Ventura does nothing. Doesn't bench guys...doesn't order mandatory fundamentals practice...nothing. It's almost like he hopes the players will automatically get better. With respect I don't think they are going to figure it out on their own. Robin has the whip hand (horse racing term) yet he refuses to use it.

Lip

amsteel
05-11-2015, 10:15 PM
No idea how Ventura hasn't been fired yet.

Because he has a contract and getting rid of him would imply some level of incompetence in the front office. Because extending a manager with 2 years experience after a 99 loss season screams 'good business acumen'.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 10:17 PM
Very disappointing to come back from 6 down to tie and then have Duke implode...was at game looked like from video board Micah was safe and Gomez was out

If Gomez doesn't make that amazing catch maybe the Sox win it. But he did. Defense again figures very importantly in the outcome of a Sox game. Milwaukee made the play when the game was on the line. The Sox meanwhile can't even hit a cut off man correctly and an important run scores because of it.

Little things add up to win or losses.

Lip

Golden Sox
05-11-2015, 10:18 PM
1) It was good to see the White Sox come back. But still, they lost the game. I try not to be negative. I'm not the second coming of Jay "Woman Beater" Mariotti. But if this turns out to be another bad road trip, (1-5, 0-6) will the White Sox finally fire Ventura?
2) The Shark has been a huge disappointment this 2015 season. I don't think anybody saw this coming. If this keeps up I can't see any team giving him a long term big money contract.

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2015, 10:20 PM
Because loyalty is more important than accountability in the Sox organization.

Just look at how they are reacting defensively. Garcia over throws the cutoff man and a run scores. Fundamentals, something good high school and college teams have no trouble understanding and executing. The Sox keep making the same mistakes game after game after game. Not only physical errors (which are going to happen) but mental errors.

Yet Ventura does nothing. Doesn't bench guys...doesn't order mandatory fundamentals practice...nothing. It's almost like he hopes the players will automatically get better. With respect I don't think they are going to figure it out on their own. Robin has the whip hand (horse racing term) yet he refuses to use it.

Lip

This is exactly why the White Sox will never consistently be a premier team in the American League. As long as Jerry owns the team, loyalty will always come before results.

JB98
05-11-2015, 10:25 PM
2-12 now on the road. 2-12! Incredible.

Another big hole dug early by Shark. Bullpen suddenly looks human, throw in the customary Sox defense (two more errors) and you get a loss to a bad, bad team. (That has been playing much better...surprise, surprise, since they fired their manager.)

Lip

The Brewers are a bad team, but if we're being honest with ourselves, the White Sox also are a bad team.

2-12 on the road, that's something only bad teams do.

What we saw tonight was two bad teams playing bad baseball. It just so happened that their bad team won and our bad team lost. Maybe the reverse will be true tomorrow, but it won't change anything in the big picture.

I just can't bring myself to be angry about the losses anymore. I've come to expect poor play from this White Sox team. When they win, I'll try to be happy about it. But when they lose, I'm just going to shrug and say, "That figures."

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 10:30 PM
Or you know who.

Noneck:

Honestly I don't think JR is involved that much in the actual mechanics of making a trade. I think he is asked his opinion from a financial stand point but I've never heard anyone tell me or even hint that he's actively involved in the trade process or telling his G.M. who to try to get.

JR is smart enough to know that this area simply isn't in his area of expertise.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-11-2015, 10:35 PM
I just can't bring myself to be angry about the losses anymore. I've come to expect poor play from this White Sox team. When they win, I'll try to be happy about it. But when they lose, I'm just going to shrug and say, "That figures."

This is a great summary of the situation. It's also a major indictment of the organization when a good fan, someone who has followed the franchise for a long time has these feelings six weeks into the regular season.

Not saying JB is wrong for feeling this way. When you haven't had a winning season in two years, haven't had consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, haven't been to the playoffs since 2008 that kind of thinking I have a feeling is widespread.

The Sox have no one to blame for these sentiments but themselves in my opinion.

Lip

captain54
05-11-2015, 10:41 PM
Because he has a contract and getting rid of him would imply some level of incompetence in the front office. Because extending a manager with 2 years experience after a 99 loss season screams 'good business acumen'.

If Robin and the front office have busted their tails to put the right players on the field, and have those players prepared to play every day… and they are not performing.. then apparently their best efforts to engineer a winner and perform their occupations as administrators of a historic big market franchise don't measure up. They either are not capable of evaluating talent that knows how to play the game, or there is something in the White Sox clubhouse that is not conducive to baseball excellence...That to me, signifies incompetence..We're looking at not just an isolated year here or there of incompetence…we are looking at multiple, continuous years..

I have to say one thing though. the JR regime is certainly very competent when it comes to making investors happy and hoodwinking the rubes in Springfield into a sweetheart stadium deal..

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2015, 10:43 PM
The Brewers are a bad team, but if we're being honest with ourselves, the White Sox also are a bad team.

2-12 on the road, that's something only bad teams do.

What we saw tonight was two bad teams playing bad baseball. It just so happened that their bad team won and our bad team lost. Maybe the reverse will be true tomorrow, but it won't change anything in the big picture.

I just can't bring myself to be angry about the losses anymore. I've come to expect poor play from this White Sox team. When they win, I'll try to be happy about it. But when they lose, I'm just going to shrug and say, "That figures."

This is a great summary of the situation. It's also a major indictment of the organization when a good fan, someone who has followed the franchise for a long time has these feelings six weeks into the regular season.

Not saying JB is wrong for feeling this way. When you haven't had a winning season in two years, haven't had consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, haven't been to the playoffs since 2008 that kind of thinking I have a feeling is widespread.

The Sox have no one to blame for these sentiments but themselves in my opinion.

Lip

That kind of apathy is understandable but I keep telling myself it's early, the Sox can still turn this around, blah blah blah...but I don't think they can unless changes are made and I don't think the Sox are going to make any changes. And if they don't care, why should I?

It just sucks. I was really looking forward to this summer too.

LoveYourSuit
05-11-2015, 10:43 PM
Leaving Milwaukee right now.

Getting tired of following this team.

JB98
05-11-2015, 11:21 PM
That kind of apathy is understandable but I keep telling myself it's early, the Sox can still turn this around, blah blah blah...but I don't think they can unless changes are made and I don't think the Sox are going to make any changes. And if they don't care, why should I?

It just sucks. I was really looking forward to this summer too.

I don't think apathy is even the right word for it. Apathy implies that I don't care, or that I'm not interested. That's not the case. I watch the games, and every day I hope the Sox win.

But that said, I don't expect the team to turn this around. I don't think they are capable of it, and I'm not going to get angry about every single loss in what is likely to be an 85- to 90-loss season. You'll drive yourself up the wall if you do that.

I think resignation is a better word to describe my feelings than apathy.

Noneck
05-11-2015, 11:30 PM
Noneck:

Honestly I don't think JR is involved that much in the actual mechanics of making a trade. I think he is asked his opinion from a financial stand point but I've never heard anyone tell me or even hint that he's actively involved in the trade process or telling his G.M. who to try to get.

JR is smart enough to know that this area simply isn't in his area of expertise.

Lip

Lip,

Im not saying he told williams to get him jeff but to find a low risk high rewards player that will be easy on the payroll.

tstrike2000
05-11-2015, 11:52 PM
I checked out after asswipe Gomez triples and then scores on the error. I'm glad the Sox came back, but as has been the case on the road, we spot the other team the lead. As a lifelong fan, I also care about the Sox, always have and always will. The team just continues to underachieve on a consistent basis. The personnel changes from year to year, yet the results stay the same.

kittle42
05-11-2015, 11:56 PM
I, too, follow every day and want a win every day, but my fantasy teams are quickly becoming more of a draw for me.

Ventura is as bad as his players. They can't all go. He can.

slavko
05-12-2015, 12:57 AM
Bright side: They didn't play dead, the bats and the hitting approach are coming around, Eaton is waking up, and it was a watchable game.

Otherwise, Shark's a bust, the pen is getting lit up and they can't catch the baseball as well as they should.

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 12:58 AM
Was watching the MLB Network tonight and didn't realize Oakland was as bad as they've been this year. They have actually made more errors than the Sox (if that's possible) but I was struck by something Harold Reynolds said as they were showing "highlights" of the A's screwing up. Reynolds said, "and it's not going to get any better..."

I was immediately struck by the thought of the White Sox. This road trip set up perfectly for them to get back to the .500 mark. Three games against a bad Milwaukee team followed by three games against a horrible Oakland team.

Instead what did we get tonight for the first game? What we've seen all season...bad starting pitching, mental and physical mistakes in the field, poor execution of simple fundamentals like turning a double play.

Another day where Robin just sits there and mumbles his usual bromide afterwards, "we've got to catch the ball better." (direct quote). Same garbage he's been saying almost every day since opening day...he does nothing to change things.

Frustrating. Like others have said I was really looking forward to this summer after the last two years.

Probably Hahn will start selling off guys in late June to get what he can and you'll be looking at another two years of rebuilding.

If the organization seriously wanted to contend this year after all their moves why did they jeopardize it with a mediocre (at best) manager. If they didn't think they were ready, why make all the off season moves in the first place? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Makes you wonder if they were simply hoping to catch lightening in a bottle and jump start season ticket sales.

Lip

Noneck
05-12-2015, 01:07 AM
Im sure the moves did jump start season tickets sales and it should have. They were good moves. I really dont know what happened, yes the defense is bad but most of these players were weened in other organizations. Having defense drills cant hurt but how much will they really help? No one would expect the bad starting pitching from Sale and Jeff and nothing can be done about that. Dumping ventura cant hurt but will it really matter at this stage of season? Who will they get, the bench coach? Cooper? Its looking like a lost season and nothing much to do about it.

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 01:19 AM
Dumping ventura cant hurt but will it really matter at this stage of season? Who will they get, the bench coach? Cooper? Its looking like a lost season and nothing much to do about it.

And that always seems to be the dilemma this club faces, especially since 2009.

captain54
05-12-2015, 01:48 AM
Hahn made some good moves in the off, but really....think about all the holes in the roster at the close of 2014. the catcher position, the defense, the bad fundamentals, took a back seat to trying to improve the offense, the pen and the rotation.

I still cannot fathom how the guy that built the crap pile (KW) still has a major say in how things need to progress. I guess 05 trumps all

The Sox almost lost 100 games not too long again. Some franchises can turn it around rather quickly, I don't think the Sox organization is capable

wassagstdu
05-12-2015, 06:32 AM
I still cannot fathom how the guy that built the crap pile (KW) still has a major say in how things need to progress. I guess 05 trumps all


Strategic credit for 2005 goes to OG not KW, IMHO.

Tragg
05-12-2015, 07:30 AM
Beginning to resemble Kenny's deal to get David Wells isn't it? The irony there of course is that as soon as Wells left the White Sox he got back to winning a lot of games for somebody else.

Wonder honestly how much of the Shark deal was Hahn and how much was Williams?

Lip
And Ritchie and most of the other "ace" starters KW has traded for. (That trade was KW's M.O.)
It was ridiculous for a 73 win team to trade for a rent. At least they didn't trade anyone overly compelling.
Bench guys for bad play? Okay but that means shuck plays....as always there isn't s bench bat in this team.
Ventura uses duke 3 days in a row...the 3rd against the team most familiar with him....like we fell into their trap. But then again, who else could he use.
This team wasn't ready to go for it. Hopefully some of these guys pick it up and have value in June so we can mitigate some of the premature moves

ChiSoxGal85
05-12-2015, 07:32 AM
I just can't bring myself to be angry about the losses anymore. I've come to expect poor play from this White Sox team. When they win, I'll try to be happy about it. But when they lose, I'm just going to shrug and say, "That figures."

I think there's a set of steps that we're going through (akin to grieving), and I'm right on that path with you. :(:

Brian26
05-12-2015, 07:47 AM
And Ritchie and most of the other "ace" starters KW has traded for. (That trade was KW's M.O.)
It was ridiculous for a 73 win team to trade for a rent. At least they didn't trade for someone overly compelling

Marcus Semien is batting .295. The only player on the Sox with a higher BA is Avisail. Semien has five HRs. The only guy on the Sox with more is Abreu, with six. At this point, if they dump Samardzija, it will be interesting to see what they get back. He looks like garbage right now.

WSox597
05-12-2015, 07:50 AM
Samardzjia is pitching bad enough to get a huge multi-year contract from the Sox.

I sure hope Ynoa works out, or the Sox will have once again traded 4 players, one of whom, Semien, showed some promise, for a huge bust.

I don't like seeing Samardzjia pitching this bad, and didn't think it would happen. I saw what he did last year with the Cubs, and thought that might be the real pitcher.

Apparently the real pitcher is the 36-48 lifetime before this season pitcher. He's a slightly below average pitcher, and has been for 3 teams now. There won't be a huge payday in his future, at least by baseball standards.

Hitmen77
05-12-2015, 07:55 AM
If Samardzija is our Shark Sandwich, I'm thinking of a two word review of his performance right now.

TomBradley72
05-12-2015, 07:59 AM
I have NO issue at all with the moves made in the off season- I think those were all GREAT, smart moves.

BUT- the decision to bring Johnson north and give up defense was a mistake, and the decision to stick with Ventura is a mistake- I still like this roster (with it's flaws at catcher and 3rd base)- but I can't stand the manager and his coaching staff (excluding Cooper and maybe Syverson).

I want a manager with some balls- Alexei needs to sit for a game (or 2) - his defense is beyond sloppy and Sanchez needs to be on the next fligh from Charlotte to Milwaukee-

soxnut67
05-12-2015, 08:19 AM
Leaving Milwaukee right now.

Getting tired of following this team.

I'd like to thank the White Sox for freeing up my summer to do other things than watch this stupid team. I'm really tired of wasting my time watching garbage.

Maximo
05-12-2015, 08:31 AM
Samardzjia is pitching bad enough to get a huge multi-year contract from the Sox.

I sure hope Ynoa works out, or the Sox will have once again traded 4 players, one of whom, Semien, showed some promise, for a huge bust.

I don't like seeing Samardzjia pitching this bad, and didn't think it would happen. I saw what he did last year with the Cubs, and thought that might be the real pitcher.

Apparently the real pitcher is the 36-48 lifetime before this season pitcher. He's a slightly below average pitcher, and has been for 3 teams now. There won't be a huge payday in his future, at least by baseball standards.
Maybe he's pitching his way to a long term deal as the Sox 5th starter for the next 3-4 years.

kobo
05-12-2015, 08:33 AM
The Brewers are a bad team, but if we're being honest with ourselves, the White Sox also are a bad team.

2-12 on the road, that's something only bad teams do.

What we saw tonight was two bad teams playing bad baseball. It just so happened that their bad team won and our bad team lost. Maybe the reverse will be true tomorrow, but it won't change anything in the big picture.

I just can't bring myself to be angry about the losses anymore. I've come to expect poor play from this White Sox team. When they win, I'll try to be happy about it. But when they lose, I'm just going to shrug and say, "That figures."
Same way I feel. Not going to waste my time complaining about losses and the way this team plays anymore. The organization isn't interested in playing sound fundamental baseball so I'm not going to waste my time getting worked up over the way this team plays.

As for Shark, one of my friends who is a Cubs fan warned me about this. Said Shark will most likely throw 200 ininnigs, have an ERA around 4.00, finish 2-3 games over .500 but will infuriate me every time he pitches because he always has a bad inning or 2. He's been pretty spot-on with his assessment so far.

I've seen some people speculate about Cooper taking over if Ventura is fired and I honestly don't know why Coop is still here. It's not like his staff has done anything good recently. And in all honesty, outside of 2005 and a few 'projects' the Sox overall team pitching stats have not been good. The staff continually ranks in the bottom 1/3 of team ERA, and so far this season the Coop 'magic' doesn't seem to be working.

Getting rid of Ventura would be a step in the right direction. But in my opinion nothing is really going to change unless everyone on that coaching staff is gone.

Maximo
05-12-2015, 08:40 AM
Same way I feel. Not going to waste my time complaining about losses and the way this team plays anymore. The organization isn't interested in playing sound fundamental baseball so I'm not going to waste my time getting worked up over the way this team plays.

As for Shark, one of my friends who is a Cubs fan warned me about this. Said Shark will most likely throw 200 ininnigs, have an ERA around 4.00, finish 2-3 games over .500 but will infuriate me every time he pitches because he always has a bad inning or 2. He's been pretty spot-on with his assessment so far.

I've seen some people speculate about Cooper taking over if Ventura is fired and I honestly don't know why Coop is still here. It's not like his staff has done anything good recently. And in all honesty, outside of 2005 and a few 'projects' the Sox overall team pitching stats have not been good. The staff continually ranks in the bottom 1/3 of team ERA, and so far this season the Coop 'magic' doesn't seem to be working.

Getting rid of Ventura would be a step in the right direction. But in my opinion nothing is really going to change unless everyone on that coaching staff is gone.

Also, I seem to remember hearing rumors that Cooper went behind Ozzie's back to the front office a couple of times insuring Ozzie's ouster. I, like most, grew weary of Ozzie at the end. However, I am a firm believer that operators and manipulators need not get rewarded. If he falls into that category, his contributions as a pitching coach don't make up for it.

Golden Sox
05-12-2015, 08:49 AM
This team rubs me as if they don't care if they win or lose. It seems like their attitude is well if we lost today, there's another game tomorrow. That attitude seems to come from Ventura. The attitude just doesn't seem to be a good one and it starts with Ventura. If this road trip turns out to be a disaster it will be curious to see what the White Sox do.

SI1020
05-12-2015, 08:54 AM
That kind of apathy is understandable but I keep telling myself it's early, the Sox can still turn this around, blah blah blah...but I don't think they can unless changes are made and I don't think the Sox are going to make any changes. And if they don't care, why should I?

It just sucks. I was really looking forward to this summer too. Me too. Got the MLB package in anticipation of the season. I was mostly optimistic until the end of spring training when I got a very uneasy feeling about this team. I don't see a winning season now and of course stick it to me at the end of the year if they prove me wrong.

Chez
05-12-2015, 09:40 AM
This one game losing streak we are mired in has ruined my summer. And, likely my life.

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 10:15 AM
Van Schouwen tells it like it is in his recap of the loss at the Sun-Times. Doesn't mince words I'll say that for him. Like his honesty:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/597945/white-sox-poor-play-continues-road-brewers-win-10-7

Lip

Andrew C White
05-12-2015, 10:28 AM
Marcus Semien is batting .295. The only player on the Sox with a higher BA is Avisail. Semien has five HRs. The only guy on the Sox with more is Abreu, with six. At this point, if they dump Samardzija, it will be interesting to see what they get back. He looks like garbage right now.

I'm happy for Semien. I really liked him and was hopeful he would be able to hit at the major league level. He looked like a baseball player to me. Guess I could get snarky and say that's why he was the one traded away. But I'll try to be nice and not say that.

TomC727
05-12-2015, 10:55 AM
This team is an epic failure.

I was so excited for this team this year. Moving back to the area after 7 years being gone, I was looking forward to the White Sox having a competitive team finally and seeing games at home.

Now….

Embarrassment and incompetence.

I am no longer excited to be a new season ticket holder and my initial excitement for for the 10yr anniversary weekend in July has been lost.

Robin needs to go, and even better, the entire coaching staff, Cooper included.

This will be another lost season in what will most likely be a couple more lost seasons of crap on the south side.

captain54
05-12-2015, 11:10 AM
Van Schouwen tells it like it is in his recap of the loss at the Sun-Times. Doesn't mince words I'll say that for him. Like his honesty:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/597945/white-sox-poor-play-continues-road-brewers-win-10-7

Lip

Almost as depressing as another practically imminent 3rd summer in a row without meaningful White Sox baseball, is the fake optimism "Rongey style" of the "experts" who try to spin in every possible way that "anything can happen in baseball" and the Sox are one long winning streak away from contention..

The only possible motivation I can see in this attitude is... at some point by some freak of the stars aligning in the universe, all the AL Central take a serious nose dive for months, and the Sox catapult to the top with a .500 record.. and then all the experts can sit back with supreme satisfaction and say "I told you so"..

I wish someone would explain this mindset and thought process to me…

Oh and by the way. speaking of honesty.. how about Robin speaking up and growing some balls? the next time he has a camera and a microphone in his face I would like to hear "I wish our shortstop would get his head out of his *** and earn his paycheck"

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 11:29 AM
Captain:

He won't say that but he assuredly will say something along the lines of, "we've got to catch the ball better..." (LOL) :D: As another day goes by without him doing a damn thing about it.

Lip

captain54
05-12-2015, 11:45 AM
This team rubs me as if they don't care if they win or lose. It seems like their attitude is well if we lost today, there's another game tomorrow.

I heard an interview with Alexei Ramirez through his interpreter, sometime earlier this year...when asked about the misplays and bad defense his answer was basically "well, that's baseball.. it happens"..

If Ramirez is removed from the team tomorrow, my enthusiasm for the Sox would increase. his offensive contribution at this point does not outweigh his shabby defense.....watching this sort of lackluster attitude after he misplays a ball and the accompanying semi-smiling smirk … is maddening.. and I've had enough...

DeadMoney
05-12-2015, 11:50 AM
Oh and by the way. speaking of honesty.. how about Robin speaking up and growing some balls? the next time he has a camera and a microphone in his face I would like to hear "I wish our shortstop would get his head out of his *** and earn his paycheck"

That's funny, because our general manager - to a group of season ticket holders last week - said something along the lines of "we have a pretty darn good shortstop when his head isn't up his ass."

Hitmen77
05-12-2015, 12:09 PM
Van Schouwen tells it like it is in his recap of the loss at the Sun-Times. Doesn't mince words I'll say that for him. Like his honesty:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/597945/white-sox-poor-play-continues-road-brewers-win-10-7

Lip

54 games under .500 on the road since the start of 2013. Wow.

JB98
05-12-2015, 12:24 PM
This team rubs me as if they don't care if they win or lose. It seems like their attitude is well if we lost today, there's another game tomorrow. That attitude seems to come from Ventura. The attitude just doesn't seem to be a good one and it starts with Ventura. If this road trip turns out to be a disaster it will be curious to see what the White Sox do.

See, I don't get that from this team at all. I think they try hard. I think they just stink.

A team that doesn't care doesn't rally from a 6-0 deficit. Not caring isn't the problem. Talent and execution are the problem.

Andrew C White
05-12-2015, 01:59 PM
That's funny, because our general manager - to a group of season ticket holders last week - said something along the lines of "we have a pretty darn good shortstop when his head isn't up his ass."

Do you have an actual quote? Cuz I'm pretty sure he didn't say that even if it is an accurate interpretation. What did he actually say?

Harry Chappas
05-12-2015, 02:31 PM
See, I don't get that from this team at all. I think they try hard. I think they just stink.

A team that doesn't care doesn't rally from a 6-0 deficit. Not caring isn't the problem. Talent and execution are the problem.

I'm not sure what's worse - a talented team that doesn't play hard or a team that plays hard but just flat-out sucks. I'll probably go with the former since at least you can hold out hope that they wake up and make a run.

shingo10
05-12-2015, 02:32 PM
To save our season we are going to need to hit and pitch well at the same time. It it possible?

It is a bad loss to start the road trip AND obviously the road record since 2013 speaks for itself...still I can't get so fired up about it. Win both series on this trip. Its only May 12. And for those who will say that they hear that same excuse every year (it's early) this is a different year. The Sox simply are better than they are playing. It will turn around.

DeadMoney
05-12-2015, 02:45 PM
Do you have an actual quote? Cuz I'm pretty sure he didn't say that even if it is an accurate interpretation. What did he actually say?

Well, the actual quote was in a string of thoughts regarding the defensive capabilities of the team. Those thoughts included gems such as "contrary to what you hear on our broadcasts we are not the Royals" and the Alexei gem of "when our guy at short doesn't have his head up his ass he's a gold glove caliber short stop." That is actually pretty damn close to what I wrote in the first place, but since you called me out on it I went back through my texts to find it since I texted some friends about it pretty much right after he said it.

Any of the other 70 or so returning STHs in that room could corroborate that specific comment and I would guess that a handful of those people would be members here. Of course, he did ask that none of his comments/quotes/thoughts wind up on blogs/websites/message boards, and I'd assume that if that happened it'd probably just lead to these type of events not happening in the future, so to each their own with sharing what they know/heard.

Andrew C White
05-12-2015, 03:40 PM
Well, the actual quote was in a string of thoughts regarding the defensive capabilities of the team. Those thoughts included gems such as "contrary to what you hear on our broadcasts we are not the Royals" and the Alexei gem of "when our guy at short doesn't have his head up his ass he's a gold glove caliber short stop." That is actually pretty damn close to what I wrote in the first place, but since you called me out on it I went back through my texts to find it since I texted some friends about it pretty much right after he said it.

Any of the other 70 or so returning STHs in that room could corroborate that specific comment and I would guess that a handful of those people would be members here. Of course, he did ask that none of his comments/quotes/thoughts wind up on blogs/websites/message boards, and I'd assume that if that happened it'd probably just lead to these type of events not happening in the future, so to each their own with sharing what they know/heard.

Really? Wow. I'm surprised he was that out front about it. Also surprised he is so naive as to think anything he says isn't automatically for public consumption. It's why we get the usual tired bromides from managers and GM's most of the time.

I agree with the Alexei quote... I'm just shocked he would call him out like that.

Tragg
05-12-2015, 03:47 PM
I have NO issue at all with the moves made in the off season- I think those were all GREAT, smart moves.

I thought (and still do) that there were too many holes to fill in one offseason. 2016 was more realistic, imo.
I would never trade for rent unless it's in July and we're desperate or some salary dump situation; and I think the Melky move was premature as well (good hitter, but he's flawed). We could have shifted some positions (Gillaspie - good hitter against right handed pitching), done some platooning to handle LF.
And I would have moved Alexei.
And enough with the veteran utility players.

As for Semien, I don't know why he spent so much time in AAA last year...and for whom, L Garcia on the major league roster?

Ventura - he still makes amateur moves (like last night), but, hey, Ausmus pinch ran for Cabrera Sunday night in a tie game, only to see Cabrera's spot come open later with the bases loaded nobody out. I guess Ventura's not the only dim bulb.
Fundamentals - they probably didn't work on that enough in the spring. And wasn't Parent quoted as saying that wasn't the coaches' job?

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 03:52 PM
Makes you wonder how much power Hahn actually has in shaping the roster doesn't it? And it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Sox brass behind closed doors unloads on a lot of guys especially considering the play the past few years. Yet the inertia in the organization keeps them from doing anything about it.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-12-2015, 03:54 PM
Tragg:

Correct on Parent. In so many words he said these are big leaguers and the coaches aren't going to go over every play with them. I agree with him to a part but reinforcing fundamentals never hurt anyone. That's why the NFL, NBA and NHL usually has a practice every day.

I'm not advocating the Sox do that, but once in a while even on an off day wouldn't hurt to get the point across.

Lip

cards press box
05-12-2015, 04:05 PM
See, I don't get that from this team at all. I think they try hard. I think they just stink.

I also think that the Sox are trying hard. I don't think that they stink, however. No, they seem to be trying too hard.

The starters' ERA is something over 7.00. How is that possible? They have too many good to excellent starters for that to be the case. They seem to be pressing and, frankly, management has to take some responsibility for that. Once they relax, they will play better.

Hopefully, that starts tonight.

Tragg:

Correct on Parent. In so many words he said these are big leaguers and the coaches aren't going to go over every play with them. I agree with him to a part but reinforcing fundamentals never hurt anyone. Lip

Lip, I agree: reinforcing fundamentals is pretty much why teams coaches in the first place. If coaches don't reinforce fundamentals, then as one of the Bobs asked in Office Space, "what exactly do they do here?"

Bob Valentine, if I remember correctly, said that his job was to keep reminding players to be fundamentally sound until they were, even if that meant reminding them every day. Parent's position, I'm sorry to say, sounds like a cop out.

slavko
05-12-2015, 04:13 PM
There's a difference between reminding your players what their job is on a one-to-one basis and calling them out in the public press (or in front of their peers).

Would it make you a better salesman if the Sales Manager came into the office and told you in front of the other guys that you blew the Farquart account (or whatever) and could have three days off without pay?

#1swisher
05-12-2015, 04:18 PM
Adam Eaton watching video of last year's swing with White Sox hitting coach Todd Steverson.

"All of a sudden I lost the ability to stay behind the ball and hit the ball in front"
http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/123757554/white-sox-leadoff-hitter-adam-eaton-working-hard-to-regain-last-years-swing

DannyCaterFan
05-12-2015, 04:52 PM
This team rubs me as if they don't care if they win or lose. It seems like their attitude is well if we lost today, there's another game tomorrow. That attitude seems to come from Ventura. The attitude just doesn't seem to be a good one and it starts with Ventura. If this road trip turns out to be a disaster it will be curious to see what the White Sox do.

This attitude began all the way back to Arizona during spring training. Ventura always acts as if losing doesn't matter. Tomorrows another day. It's time for an attitude adjustment and a new coaching staff.

RCWHITESOX
05-12-2015, 05:01 PM
Really? Wow. I'm surprised he was that out front about it. Also surprised he is so naive as to think anything he says isn't automatically for public consumption. It's why we get the usual tired bromides from managers and GM's most of the time.

I agree with the Alexei quote... I'm just shocked he would call him out like that.

It's about time he plus others get called out!

captain54
05-12-2015, 05:12 PM
There's a difference between reminding your players what their job is on a one-to-one basis and calling them out in the public press (or in front of their peers).

Would it make you a better salesman if the Sales Manager came into the office and told you in front of the other guys that you blew the Farquart account (or whatever) and could have three days off without pay?

Maybe it wouldn't make u better, mayb it would, who knows. But if you lost three accounts in a year, and it looked like you didn't have any desire to improve your performance, and your comment after losing every account was "oh well, that's business!" You probably shouldn't be surprised getting docked and spanked verbally in public

slavko
05-12-2015, 05:14 PM
Nothing like a public shaming to get the most out of your employees. Where do you guys work? I need to make a phone call.

Brian26
05-12-2015, 06:43 PM
Well, the actual quote was in a string of thoughts regarding the defensive capabilities of the team. Those thoughts included gems such as "contrary to what you hear on our broadcasts we are not the Royals" and the Alexei gem of "when our guy at short doesn't have his head up his ass he's a gold glove caliber short stop." That is actually pretty damn close to what I wrote in the first place, but since you called me out on it I went back through my texts to find it since I texted some friends about it pretty much right after he said it.

Any of the other 70 or so returning STHs in that room could corroborate that specific comment and I would guess that a handful of those people would be members here. Of course, he did ask that none of his comments/quotes/thoughts wind up on blogs/websites/message boards, and I'd assume that if that happened it'd probably just lead to these type of events not happening in the future, so to each their own with sharing what they know/heard.

I guess the horse is out of the barn on that one. It is pretty cool that he was so candid with the people who lay down real money on this team. My respect for Hahn went up a notch reading that.