PDA

View Full Version : GM Rick Hahn Speaks


#1swisher
05-05-2015, 05:45 PM
White Sox GM Rick Hahn says players, coaching staff, front office all accountable.

Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan) 44m44 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/595708988894945280) Here's first minute or so of Rick Hahn just moments ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE2R_Rx8YEg&sns=tw … (http://t.co/IrWysvpcOu) via @youtube (https://twitter.com/YouTube)

Rocky Soprano
05-05-2015, 05:50 PM
Less talking. More doing.
Great so you're all accountable. What are you going to do about it?

anewman35
05-05-2015, 06:01 PM
This kind of upsets me even more.

Hahn on Ventura: "To make one individual the focal point? I don’t think that’s fair. This accountability is shared...This is on all of us."

So it's everybody's fault, so you can't blame one person, so the answer is...don't do anything to anybody? Great.

ricker182
05-05-2015, 06:01 PM
Less talking. More doing.
Great so you're all accountable. What are you going to do about it?

They obviously aren't held accountable.
Hahn built a decent team and a very good bullpen.
They aren't playing anywhere near expectations.

I_Liked_Manuel
05-05-2015, 06:08 PM
Nobody has been held accountable yet

Chicago5oooh
05-05-2015, 06:15 PM
Yeah, everything Rick said today is pretty much meaningless.

PorkChopExpress
05-05-2015, 06:27 PM
This kind of upsets me even more.



So it's everybody's fault, so you can't blame one person, so the answer is...don't do anything to anybody? Great.

More like, it's everybody's fault, you can't blame one person, so the answer is not just getting rid of one person.

lpneck
05-05-2015, 06:29 PM
Every day without action is a day where I have less confidence in Rick Hahn than the one before.

Rocky is right on. Less taking. More doing.

PorkChopExpress
05-05-2015, 06:37 PM
UImuMJlUJzA

SoxSpeed22
05-05-2015, 06:45 PM
At least somebody said something, though I would've preferred 'quit swinging at 2-0 pitches.' If you want accountability, I think Rick better take a look at the scouts who are responsible for getting these guys prepared.

soxfanreggie
05-05-2015, 06:48 PM
They obviously aren't held accountable.
Hahn built a decent team and a very good bullpen.
They aren't playing anywhere near expectations.

Spot on. There's a big difference between saying you're all accountable and actually holding someone accountable. Are we going to see everyone gone at the end of the year in this situation or is someone scapegoated? Chances are is someone is the scapegoat. Probably either Robin or a few coaches who aren't Coop.

nvc1019
05-05-2015, 07:00 PM
I said this in another forum they weren't prepared out of spring training. if it takes a month before your team is ready to compete they are in big trouble in this division!

ricker182
05-05-2015, 07:03 PM
I said this in another forum they weren't prepared out of spring training. if it takes a month before your team is ready to compete they are in big trouble in this division!

Which falls on the staff.
Quit starting to practice in mid February.
You get paid a lot of money. You need to prepare year round.

Boondock Saint
05-05-2015, 07:05 PM
This kind of upsets me even more.



So it's everybody's fault, so you can't blame one person, so the answer is...don't do anything to anybody? Great.

Nailed it. Changing one thing won't fix it, so we're not going to start changing things.

slavko
05-05-2015, 07:10 PM
I said this in another forum they weren't prepared out of spring training. if it takes a month before your team is ready to compete they are in big trouble in this division!

As for Hahn, the last time I heard the word Unacceptable used so much was by Marc Trestman and Brandon Marshall. Remember them?

Once upon a time, like 1960, Jolly Cholly Grimm was back managing the Cubs who were hoping for a repeat of his 1945 pennant. At about the same point in the season the Sox are now, they were a mess, and Lou Boudreau came down out of the radio booth to take over the team. Spring training was what they needed and a week of rainouts gave them the opportunity to have it, albeit indoors. But the team still sucked and Lou went back to where he belonged the next year.

And this overrated team full of holes is likely to suck when Robin is replaced and the tea leaves are telling me it will happen soon.

Vernam
05-05-2015, 07:45 PM
"Everyone is accountable" = "No one is held accountable."

Big difference between being accountable and being held to it. Empty words until some action is taken.

GoSox2K3
05-05-2015, 08:56 PM
"Everyone is accountable" = "No one is held accountable."

Big difference between being accountable and being held to it. Empty words until some action is taken.

Ding. Ding. Ding......we have a winner.

Nothing but more empty, meaningless words from Sox brass - which I have gotten quite accustomed to these last 7 years.

:mad::fail:

Lip Man 1
05-05-2015, 09:43 PM
OK…Hahn says EVERYONE is accountable.
Great!
Just wondering…

Has anyone been fired?
Has anyone been traded?
Has anyone been sent down to the minors?
Has anyone come off the DL?

(Crickets chirping…)

Didn’t think so.

In other words more meaningless talk coming from the organization without any action.

Same nonsense, different day.

Lip

JB98
05-05-2015, 10:23 PM
Honestly, I don't know what you guys were expecting Hahn to say. He's not going to come out and say, "Yes, jobs are on the line," even if jobs are on the line, which they may or may not be.

I'm as pissed about this poor start as any poster here, but I can't get myself all worked up about a bunch of non-answers from Hahn. I wouldn't tell the Chicago media contingent a damn thing either if I was him.

doublem23
05-05-2015, 10:27 PM
Honestly, I don't know what you guys were expecting Hahn to say. He's not going to come out and say, "Yes, jobs are on the line," even if jobs are on the line, which they may or may not be.

I'm as pissed about this poor start as any poster here, but I can't get myself all worked up about a bunch of non-answers from Hahn. I wouldn't tell the Chicago media contingent a damn thing either if I was him.

Seriously, people here complain that the Sox are a joke organization yet complain when their GM comes out and stays professional and classy in the public eye.

Tough crowd, tough crowd.

DSpivack
05-05-2015, 10:33 PM
Seriously, people here complain that the Sox are a joke organization yet complain when their GM comes out and stays professional and classy in the public eye.

Tough crowd, tough crowd.

Honestly, I don't know what you guys were expecting Hahn to say. He's not going to come out and say, "Yes, jobs are on the line," even if jobs are on the line, which they may or may not be.

I'm as pissed about this poor start as any poster here, but I can't get myself all worked up about a bunch of non-answers from Hahn. I wouldn't tell the Chicago media contingent a damn thing either if I was him.

I don't have much to add, except agreement.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2015, 10:38 PM
Honestly, I don't know what you guys were expecting Hahn to say. He's not going to come out and say, "Yes, jobs are on the line," even if jobs are on the line, which they may or may not be.

I'm as pissed about this poor start as any poster here, but I can't get myself all worked up about a bunch of non-answers from Hahn. I wouldn't tell the Chicago media contingent a damn thing either if I was him.

JB:

I do understand your point but it would be a nice change to say out loud what everybody probably knows is happening...i.e. jobs are on the line (except Ventura's of course...:D:)
Honesty usually is the best course of action I've always thought in my own life.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-05-2015, 11:01 PM
From the Tribune's story on Hahn's comments:

"The Sox entered the three-game series against the Tigers off a dismal 0-5 trip, one that caused Hahn, Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and executive vice president Ken Williams to talk "repeatedly" about the club's "unacceptable" recent play.

They determined Ventura and the coaching staff certainly must address the shoddy base running and defense, and Hahn said they should hold players accountable for poor play, whether it be through lineup changes or other measures."

I guess the good news is the higher up's recognize the issues and think something needs to change. How that can come about I don't have the answer to. Tonight for example they made three more errors.

Lip

JB98
05-06-2015, 02:09 AM
JB:

I do understand your point but it would be a nice change to say out loud what everybody probably knows is happening...i.e. jobs are on the line (except Ventura's of course...:D:)
Honesty usually is the best course of action I've always thought in my own life.

Lip

For you and I and most others this is true, but we aren't public figures running a baseball team. The Chicago media smells blood, and frankly, I think Hahn was wise not to be too candid with them.

Personally, I don't care what they tell the writers. Hahn could have come out cracking skulls and threatening benchings, firings and demotions and it wouldn't have made me feel any better. I would have dismissed a show like that as nothing more than a bunch of hot air.

The only thing that's going to make me feel better as a Sox fan is a winning streak. I need to see results more than I need to hear tough talk.

Dan H
05-06-2015, 02:52 AM
At this point, I don't expect Hahn to say much, and why should he? The only time he should really talk is when he is ready to do something.

Hahn may still believe in the club. Maybe he thinks the team is one winning streak away from getting back in it. I think the White Sox have big problems that need to be addressed and Hahn can't be too patient. Wait too long to take action, and the season will be over.

white sox bill
05-06-2015, 07:23 AM
RH sounds like a politician. What a joke.

WSox597
05-06-2015, 07:35 AM
I agree with not opening up to the Chicago media. Most of them are bottom feeders, and go for the easiest headlines.

The Sox are struggling, anybody could see that. The media is tickled pink no doubt. Why help them out?

Some changes need to be made, and I've been on the fire the manager train with the others, but Hahn and the other brass will do as they see fit.

They won't pay attention to us whining on a message board, or factor that into their decision. Nor should they.

I just hope something is done to positively affect the season before it's too late.

Jerko
05-06-2015, 07:59 AM
If he's not going to say much (anything really) why have the event? Glad I passed.

kobo
05-06-2015, 08:03 AM
Which falls on the staff.
Quit starting to practice in mid February.
You get paid a lot of money. You need to prepare year round.
This is bull****. These guys are professional baseball players. Just because they make a lot of money does not mean they get held to some ridiculous standard you have set in your head. They are entitled to their off time just like I am entitled to my vacation time at work.

And honestly, what did anyone expect Hahn to do? Hahn spoke in the same way he has spoken since he became GM. We may not like what he said but at least he's being consistent. Also, none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes. I'd be willing to bet that quite a few conversations happened on Sunday evening and on Monday with Robin and maybe Robin and the staff. These guys aren't dumb, they all know they are not doing their jobs well at this time and there is some truth in that the players need to execute better. Let's hope they can turn things around and make the rest of the season enjoyable, because nothing is going to change in terms of manager or coaches until the season is over.

Lip Man 1
05-06-2015, 11:02 AM
Interesting take on how Kenny Williams is taking all this.

From the Sun-Times:

"Williams was in a bad mood Monday as he tried to dissect everything he’s seen in the first four weeks, and Tuesday wasn’t much better. When he heard a profane rap song playing in the Sox clubhouse turned on, he had it turned off and questioned the judgment of it being played in the first place before apologizing for it to a female reporter."

Lip

soltrain21
05-06-2015, 11:24 AM
Interesting take on how Kenny Williams is taking all this.

From the Sun-Times:

"Williams was in a bad mood Monday as he tried to dissect everything he’s seen in the first four weeks, and Tuesday wasn’t much better. When he heard a profane rap song playing in the Sox clubhouse turned on, he had it turned off and questioned the judgment of it being played in the first place before apologizing for it to a female reporter."

Lip

They should be able to listen to the music they want to. Jeez.

kufram
05-06-2015, 11:29 AM
This is bull****. These guys are professional baseball players. Just because they make a lot of money does not mean they get held to some ridiculous standard you have set in your head. They are entitled to their off time just like I am entitled to my vacation time at work.

And honestly, what did anyone expect Hahn to do? Hahn spoke in the same way he has spoken since he became GM. We may not like what he said but at least he's being consistent. Also, none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes. I'd be willing to bet that quite a few conversations happened on Sunday evening and on Monday with Robin and maybe Robin and the staff. These guys aren't dumb, they all know they are not doing their jobs well at this time and there is some truth in that the players need to execute better. Let's hope they can turn things around and make the rest of the season enjoyable, because nothing is going to change in terms of manager or coaches until the season is over.


An outbreak of a few reasoned and sensible posts has taken place in this thread which is encouraging. People want to come to conclusions with the facts they prefer to headline. Hahn's quotes... at least the one's I've seen, are exactly as strong as a professional would give to the hacks. Why should he rant and rave in public? People want blood and turmoil. Perhaps a public hanging or two might make some feel better.... for a few minutes. There was also reference to a nasty flu bug that hit 6 or 7 players last week-end which might explain at least part of the problem.

Right now I think Hahn and Co. are doing what they have to do right now...ride it out and see if some things resolve themselves whilst talking and planning moves should it come to that. I, personally, think there is every chance that Hahn has a plan on the manager front which moving Ventura out before he has the next guy in place is not part of.

Irishsox1
05-06-2015, 11:54 AM
This is all Kenny Williams fault. He hired Ventura and signed off on Hahn whom it appears isn't really the GM.

Reinsdorf has to figure out who he wants running the team because this is an organizational issue and not just a player issue.

TheVulture
05-06-2015, 12:04 PM
I don't get the problem with Hahn saying everyone is accountable. Everyone should be accountable, otherwise you'd have favorites who weren't "expected to account for one's actions," or "be responsible for one's actions."

smac38
05-06-2015, 12:11 PM
I don't think anyone has a problem with him saying it. It's the fact that there have been plenty of reasons over the past few years to hold this group accountable, yet nothing has ever been done or changed. To me, that's just lip service.

Boondock Saint
05-06-2015, 12:55 PM
I don't get the problem with Hahn saying everyone is accountable. Everyone should be accountable, otherwise you'd have favorites who weren't "expected to account for one's actions," or "be responsible for one's actions."

Saying that everyone is accountable is not actually holding anybody accountable. It's the illusion of action. It's basically saying that you will do something if you see a reason to do so.

Noneck
05-06-2015, 01:03 PM
Reinsdorf has to figure out who he wants running the team because this is an organizational issue and not just a player issue.

He knows who is running the team and sees him daily as he shaves.

Maximo
05-06-2015, 01:08 PM
They're going to start policing the loud music playing in the clubhouse?

It's about time! I smell 7 game winning streak in the immediate future!

kobo
05-06-2015, 01:17 PM
This is all Kenny Williams fault. He hired Ventura and signed off on Hahn whom it appears isn't really the GM.

Reinsdorf has to figure out who he wants running the team because this is an organizational issue and not just a player issue.
How so? How is Hahn not the GM and what led you to this conclusion? I don't agree with that at all and think that while Hahn is GM, KW still has some say in baseball matters. If KW was still the GM this roster would look differently and the farm system would still be ranked last. If you're basing your conclusion on Robin still being manager all I will say is that at the end of the day JR has final say over everything. Doesn't matter who the GM is, everything needs final approval from Reinsdorf.

Irishsox1
05-06-2015, 01:23 PM
How so? How is Hahn not the GM and what led you to this conclusion? I don't agree with that at all and think that while Hahn is GM, KW still has some say in baseball matters. If KW was still the GM this roster would look differently and the farm system would still be ranked last. If you're basing your conclusion on Robin still being manager all I will say is that at the end of the day JR has final say over everything. Doesn't matter who the GM is, everything needs final approval from Reinsdorf.

Until Hahn fires Robin (whom he didn't hire) it's still Kenny's team. There is no way an ego maniac like Kenny Williams is going to sit back and let Rick Hahn run the team without any interference.

Noneck
05-06-2015, 01:28 PM
Until Hahn fires Robin (whom he didn't hire) it's still Kenny's team. There is no way an ego maniac like Kenny Williams is going to sit back and let Rick Hahn run the team without any interference.

As long as current ownership is around , only one person wont have interference and thats the chairman.

TDog
05-06-2015, 01:35 PM
It really depends on what sort of accountability you're talking about. Fans seem to be looking for punishment.

Firing the manager wouldn't improve the defense. There isn't a manager you would bring in who would bench players for making mistakes if there isn't a better alternative. There aren't any better alternatives, and players know they are going to get paid even if you release them. This isn't the 1960s when most baseball players only make twice as much as most teachers and they are bound to their teams until their teams don't want them anymore.

You can't fine players for losing. You can't sensibly release high-paid players for losing. You could trade Bobby Bonds for Claudell Washington if you want to hold players accountable for a bad start.

You can't release the centerfielder/leadoff hitter you just signed to a long contact because his lack of production has been a big reason for the slow start.

The biggest problem outside of Eaton, who may be the only everyday player in baseball this season without an RBI, has been catching. I wouldn't have any problem with the Sox finding a light-hitting strong defensive catcher, someone along the lines of Chris Stewart, who the Sox developed.

Anther problem has been inconsistent starting pitching, which killed the Sox on the last roadtrip with both Samardzija and Sale giving up big early innings that took the Sox out of games. There was a 1-0 loss last week where the only run scored on a wild pitch and the catcher hit into a double play with the bases loaded and one out and struck out to end the game with runners on second and third, but mostly last week the pitching took the Sox out of games early.

Even if the Cubs lost a game this week after scoring five in the top of the first, there is little a manager can do to win when your starter gives up six in the first or your ace gives up seven in the third after your team came back to tie the game in the top of the inning.

I'm not going to hold the manager accountable for Abreu going 3-for-24 on last week's lost roadtrip. I don't know how I could hold any coach accountable, and I certainly wouldn't want to take action to hold Abreu accountable.

Things White Sox management has done to hold teams accountable in the past, such as trading Bobby Bonds, firing Tony LaRussa, releasing Jay Johnstone and Rick Reichardt, even trading Bobby Bonilla, sometimes appear on these pages as evidence of the incompetence of White Sox management by the some of the same posters demanding accountability.

I would love to see the Sox find a strong defensive catcher. I wasn't behind the decision to bring up Micah Johnson at this point, and maybe sending him down in favor of Sanchez would help.

Some of the decisions, bringing up Johnson, bring up Rodon to pitch in relief of Noesi (which seems intended to mimic the way Joe Maddon developed David Price out of necessity, pitching him in late-inning relief as a rookie in the postseason, out of trouble and never starting an inning until the last, losing game of the World Series) are organizational decisions that haven't really helped.

If you're looking for accountability. Doing something about your catching should be numerous notches on the list higher than replacing your manager.

MARTINMVP
05-06-2015, 01:47 PM
Less talking. More doing.
Great so you're all accountable. What are you going to do about it?

Accountability.

Wasn't that Marc Trestman's answer to every problem?

JB98
05-06-2015, 02:15 PM
I'll be the dick who says it: I don't have a problem with KW's move to turn off the rap music in the clubhouse.

The front office is under fire. The manager is under fire. The players have done a terrible job. Why should they be allowed to have a house party in the clubhouse before the game? The ballpark is not a nightclub. It's a workplace, and there's a bunch of people who aren't getting their jobs done. Maybe the clubhouse atmosphere needs to be different until the players start performing better.

They can play their rap music if they start winning some ballgames.

Maximo
05-06-2015, 04:19 PM
I'll be the dick who says it: I don't have a problem with KW's move to turn off the rap music in the clubhouse.

The front office is under fire. The manager is under fire. The players have done a terrible job. Why should they be allowed to have a house party in the clubhouse before the game? The ballpark is not a nightclub. It's a workplace, and there's a bunch of people who aren't getting their jobs done. Maybe the clubhouse atmosphere needs to be different until the players start performing better.

They can play their rap music if they start winning some ballgames.

Exactly! And it's the manager of the team who establishes and maintains the tone in the clubhouse from his first day on the job. It should have been "understood" by whoever was playing the music that there's a time and a place for it and coming home after that lousy, stinking road trip wasn't it.

A strong manager....even one who prides himself in maintaining a certain composure.....wouldn't have needed to wait for his boss to order it shut off. It would have never been turned on in the first place.

TDog
05-06-2015, 04:35 PM
Exactly! And it's the manager of the team who establishes and maintains the tone in the clubhouse from his first day on the job. It should have been "understood" by whoever was playing the music that there's a time and a place for it and coming home after that lousy, stinking road trip wasn't it.

A strong manager....even one who prides himself in maintaining a certain composure.....wouldn't have needed to wait for his boss to order it shut off. It would have never been turned on in the first place.

... unless he's a manager who deals with bad play by trying to keep everyone loose. The media actually fawns over some such managers.

wassagstdu
05-06-2015, 04:38 PM
The front office is under fire. The manager is under fire. The players have done a terrible job. Why should they be allowed to have a house party in the clubhouse before the game? The ballpark is not a nightclub. It's a workplace, and there's a bunch of people who aren't getting their jobs done. Maybe the clubhouse atmosphere needs to be different until the players start performing better.

They can play their rap music if they start winning some ballgames.

This reminded me that I recently watched again the film "Moneyball." Aside from the music in the clubhouse thing (I agree with Billy Beane, KW and the poster on that), I was struck by Beane's contention that it did not matter that Hatteberg played poor defense, that defense didn't matter. Of course Beane has changed his tune since then, but I don't think the Sox upper management got the memo. They simply do not value defense. The poster child for this policy is Matt Davidson, but look at the current team. Melky Cabrera is a minor improvement over Viciedo, though I am still laughing over his assist on the HR last night. In Viciedo and Abreu the Sox managed to find the two worst fielders among the Cubans -- though Abreu would be a great DH. Garcia has to be careful he doesn't hurt himself out there, Johnson is a defensive disaster, Alexei will make a great play then boot a routine one, and on and on. You can't acquire players without valuing defense then turn around and consider it a character flaw when they perform poorly in the field.

Harry Chappas
05-06-2015, 05:00 PM
Honestly, I don't know what you guys were expecting Hahn to say. He's not going to come out and say, "Yes, jobs are on the line," even if jobs are on the line, which they may or may not be.

I'm as pissed about this poor start as any poster here, but I can't get myself all worked up about a bunch of non-answers from Hahn. I wouldn't tell the Chicago media contingent a damn thing either if I was him.

Exactly. Show me a GM/Owner that assigns blame and I'll show you a GM/owner that fans would/should want no part of.

He said exactly what he was expected to say and nothing more. I'm pissed but I have faith that if they don't turn this thing around soon, Ventura will either resign or be fired. I don't care if he's Reinsdorf's favorite or not. Reinsdorf wants to win and didn't open the purse strings to watch a team that appears to stuck in spring training mode. This is one is on Kenny. I seriously doubt it was Reinsdorf or Hahn's idea to convince a disinterested, inexperienced, ex-player to run the team. Maybe they were okay with this little experiment for the first year or two, but not now.

The North Side's ascendance (okay, they've lost 4 straight, but still) will turn the heat up even more. Hawks have arguably the best coach in the NHL, the Bulls have Thibs (even though he's probably gone), the Bears have a winning coach in John Fox, and now the Cubs have Joe Maddon. Good-to-great coaches all around and the Sox are stuck with a 'fan favorite.'

Harry Chappas
05-06-2015, 05:03 PM
This reminded me that I recently watched again the film "Moneyball." Aside from the music in the clubhouse thing (I agree with Billy Beane, KW and the poster on that), I was struck by Beane's contention that it did not matter that Hatteberg played poor defense, that defense didn't matter. Of course Beane has changed his tune since then, but I don't think the Sox upper management got the memo. They simply do not value defense. The poster child for this policy is Matt Davidson, but look at the current team. Melky Cabrera is a minor improvement over Viciedo, though I am still laughing over his assist on the HR last night. In Viciedo and Abreu the Sox managed to find the two worst fielders among the Cubans -- though Abreu would be a great DH. Garcia has to be careful he doesn't hurt himself out there, Johnson is a defensive disaster, Alexei will make a great play then boot a routine one, and on and on. You can't acquire players without valuing defense then turn around and consider it a character flaw when they perform poorly in the field.

The Sox have a slightly flawed approach in that they seem to pursue players that are athletes that can't play baseball and 'grinders' that can't field their position. I'd hate to pitch for this team (aside from the paycheck).

#1swisher
05-06-2015, 05:45 PM
Scott Merkin @scottmerkin (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin) · 7m 7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/596079549491879940)

(https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/596079549491879940) From Ken Williams: "We’ve had a lot of conversations about a lot of things obviously here in the first few weeks....


" Not a single one of them has been with regards to a staff change....


"These guys have busted their tails in every way shape and form to get these guys off to a good start."


More from Williams tonight on http://MLB.com

Lip Man 1
05-06-2015, 05:56 PM
This reminded me that I recently watched again the film "Moneyball." Aside from the music in the clubhouse thing (I agree with Billy Beane, KW and the poster on that), I was struck by Beane's contention that it did not matter that Hatteberg played poor defense, that defense didn't matter. Of course Beane has changed his tune since then, but I don't think the Sox upper management got the memo. They simply do not value defense. The poster child for this policy is Matt Davidson, but look at the current team. Melky Cabrera is a minor improvement over Viciedo, though I am still laughing over his assist on the HR last night. In Viciedo and Abreu the Sox managed to find the two worst fielders among the Cubans -- though Abreu would be a great DH. Garcia has to be careful he doesn't hurt himself out there, Johnson is a defensive disaster, Alexei will make a great play then boot a routine one, and on and on. You can't acquire players without valuing defense then turn around and consider it a character flaw when they perform poorly in the field.

Dave Wills agrees with you about the Sox not valuing defense.

Lip

cards press box
05-06-2015, 06:10 PM
The poster child for this policy is Matt Davidson, but look at the current team.

I'll concede that I haven't seen him play this year but from what I have read, Davidson is fielding well and is hitting for power. In fact, he leads the International League in homers. His average is around .250 but I don't think he'll ever hit for much average. If the guy hits .250, hits for power and plays a good defensive third base, that would be fine.

Melky Cabrera is a minor improvement over Viciedo.

I can't agree with that. Viciedo could not play any defensive position well. Melky Cabrera is an average outfielder with an above average arm. He provides much better defense than Viciedo.

Johnson is a defensive disaster, Alexei will make a great play then boot a routine one.

I agree on Alexei but not on Johnson. Alexei is what he is. And at this point, he is the Sox' best option at SS until Tim Anderson is ready. Anderson is hitting .301 with 11 stolen bases so far at Birmingham. He has upside.

And, for that matter, Johnson has upside. Yes, Carlos Sanchez is the better second baseman right now but his ceiling is lower. If the Sox have to suffer some growing pains with Johnson, I don't really have a problem with that. From what I have seen, I think he will develop into a good defensive second baseman.

cv sox fan
05-06-2015, 06:46 PM
The sox management has been giving us this bull ***t since there failure 21/2 years ago Ventura lost the team then and will never get it back.I personally want every one held accountable screw there meetings lets take some action.

GoSox2K3
05-07-2015, 08:58 AM
They should be able to listen to the music they want to. Jeez.

They're going to start policing the loud music playing in the clubhouse?

It's about time! I smell 7 game winning streak in the immediate future!

Williams took exception to the music because the lyrics were profane and misogynistic. I have no problem with him telling them to turn it off.

asindc
05-07-2015, 09:53 AM
I haven't posted much about whether Robin should be fired or not, mainly because if he is fired I won't fret about it and if he isn't fired this year, I won't consider it a grave error. But here are the list of players who have been held accountable since Rick became GM:

Dayan Viciedo
Adam Dunn
Alejandro De Aza
Ronald Bellisario
Alex Rios
Gordon Beckham
DeWayne Wise
Brent Morel
Jordan Danks
Brent Lillibridge
Phillip Humber
Gavin Floyd
Jake Peavy
Addison Reed
Leyson Septimo
Dylan Alexrod
Zach Stewart
Jeff Keppinger
Josh Phegley
Leury Garcia
Daniel Webb
Erik Johnson
Javy Guerra
Scott Downs

The point of this list is to show that Hahn has done a lot more than talking about accountability since he has been GM. By the way, he can "accountable" as many catchers as he pleases, the available talent pool won't get any better because of that.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2015, 11:10 AM
Asin:

My lord that's an impressive list of flat out bad baseball players. Wow...

Lip

Andrew C White
05-07-2015, 11:44 AM
That's a big part of what makes this years bad start so hard to take. When you are counting on that list of bad players you aren't surprised when the team loses. But Hahn has done an impressive job of bringing in good players and yet we are still losing and looking very bad doing it. I don't blame Robin for the last two years of bad teams. They were bad teams. But this year... that's another story. This may not be a championship squad but it should be a very competitive one.

And it isn't.

captain54
05-07-2015, 02:19 PM
I haven't posted much about whether Robin should be fired or not, mainly because if he is fired I won't fret about it and if he isn't fired this year, I won't consider it a grave error. But here are the list of players who have been held accountable since Rick became GM:

Dayan Viciedo
Adam Dunn
Alejandro De Aza
Ronald Bellisario
Alex Rios
Gordon Beckham
DeWayne Wise
Brent Morel
Jordan Danks
Brent Lillibridge
Phillip Humber
Gavin Floyd
Jake Peavy
Addison Reed
Leyson Septimo
Dylan Alexrod
Zach Stewart
Jeff Keppinger
Josh Phegley
Leury Garcia
Daniel Webb
Erik Johnson
Javy Guerra
Scott Downs

The point of this list is to show that Hahn has done a lot more than talking about accountability since he has been GM. By the way, he can "accountable" as many catchers as he pleases, the available talent pool won't get any better because of that.

Pretty much an indictment of an organization flinging **** against the wall to see what sticks

Boondock Saint
05-07-2015, 03:34 PM
I haven't posted much about whether Robin should be fired or not, mainly because if he is fired I won't fret about it and if he isn't fired this year, I won't consider it a grave error. But here are the list of players who have been held accountable since Rick became GM:

Dayan Viciedo
Adam Dunn
Alejandro De Aza
Ronald Bellisario
Alex Rios
Gordon Beckham
DeWayne Wise
Brent Morel
Jordan Danks
Brent Lillibridge
Phillip Humber
Gavin Floyd
Jake Peavy
Addison Reed
Leyson Septimo
Dylan Alexrod
Zach Stewart
Jeff Keppinger
Josh Phegley
Leury Garcia
Daniel Webb
Erik Johnson
Javy Guerra
Scott Downs

The point of this list is to show that Hahn has done a lot more than talking about accountability since he has been GM. By the way, he can "accountable" as many catchers as he pleases, the available talent pool won't get any better because of that.

That's just a list of dudes who aren't with the team anymore. How many of those guys just had their contracts naturally run out, or were traded as part of a package for a better player?

asindc
05-07-2015, 03:42 PM
That's just a list of dudes who aren't with the team anymore. How many of those guys just had their contracts naturally run out, or were traded as part of a package for a better player?

Are you saying that the only reason some them are no longer Sox players is that their contracts expired and, even though the Sox wanted to re-sign them, they couldn't find a way to do so? Which players on the list fall under that category?

asindc
05-07-2015, 04:36 PM
For comparison sake, here is a similar list of players for another AL club that have been held accountable since their GM took over:

Robert Andino
Mark Reynolds
Nolan Reimold
Luke Scott
Felix Pie
Ryan Adams
Cesar Izturis
Jake Arrieta
Zack Britton
Jeremy Guthrie
Alfredo Simon
Jason Berken
Wilson Betemit
Nate McLouth
Ronny Paulino
Taylor Teagarden
Danny Valencia
Alexi Casilla
Mike Morse
Kevin Gausman
Nick Hundley
Steve Lombardozzi
Evan Meek

I'm not as familiar with this teams as I am with the Sox, so I might have missed a few. Meanwhile, a castoff from the Sox list is in the starting lineup for this team.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2015, 05:00 PM
Asin:

That's obviously the Orioles. But they've had a lot more success the past few years and have made the playoffs, something the Sox haven't done since 2008. I guess their G.M. is doing a better job overall to this point.

Lip

asindc
05-07-2015, 05:34 PM
Asin:

That's obviously the Orioles. But they've had a lot more success the past few years and have made the playoffs, something the Sox haven't done since 2008. I guess their G.M. is doing a better job overall to this point.

Lip

The Baltimore list is in response to the "organization flinging **** against the wall to see what sticks" comment earlier in the thread. It should be noted that this same successful GM in Baltimore has De Aza as his current starting LF and has previously brought in Wilson Betemit to start at 3B during his tenure, to name two examples.

#1swisher
05-13-2015, 10:25 AM
Rick Hahn understands the balance between developing a dynamic young talent and dealing with a few growing pains as part of a contending team.

"It's important for us to build something sustainable to introduce our own young talent on a pretty much annual basis," Hahn said. "The Braves did that on that long run of theirs, every year adding a homegrown piece that became a mainstay to their core as it evolved. That's where we want to get to."


http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/123961848/white-sox-general-manager-rick-hahn-seeks-blend-of-youth-veterans