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Lip Man 1
05-02-2015, 11:46 AM
From Mark Parent in the Sun-Times this morning:

"We’re not going to go around with every play that happens every day and re-teach that. This is the big leagues. You have to be accountable for that."

Kind of makes you wonder then what these guys are doing to earn their salary if they don't want to teach things to players doesn't it? Given the Sox awful fundamentals the past decade or so (with rare exceptions) maybe this type attitude is a big part of the problem.

Lip

ricker182
05-02-2015, 11:53 AM
From Mark Parent in the Sun-Times this morning:

"We’re not going to go around with every play that happens every day and re-teach that. This is the big leagues. You have to be accountable for that."

Kind of makes you wonder then what these guys are doing to earn their salary if they don't want to teach things to players doesn't it? Given the Sox awful fundamentals the past decade or so (with rare exceptions) maybe this type attitude is a big part of the problem.

Lip

Obviously we don't practice that stuff.

They might know that stuff but it isn't ingrained in them.

It has to be split second reaction. There is no time to think.

Andrew C White
05-02-2015, 12:02 PM
"We’re not going to go around with every play that happens every day and re-teach that. This is the big leagues. You have to be accountable for that."

Yes, I agree. You have to be accountable for that. If you are the coach or the manager or the GM and your team doesn't play sound fundamental baseball you have to be accountable for that. If it was just one player that would be one thing. If it was just one game or one string of games that would be one thing. But that isn't the case. It is virtually the entire team. And it is on-going through the years.

You have to be accountable for that.

FoulTerritory
05-02-2015, 12:03 PM
From Mark Parent in the Sun-Times this morning:

"We’re not going to go around with every play that happens every day and re-teach that. This is the big leagues. You have to be accountable for that."

Kind of makes you wonder then what these guys are doing to earn their salary if they don't want to teach things to players doesn't it? Given the Sox awful fundamentals the past decade or so (with rare exceptions) maybe this type attitude is a big part of the problem.

Lip

Yeah, that's not good and it signifies an ingrained systemic problem in the organization.

Lip Man 1
05-02-2015, 12:15 PM
Yes, I agree. You have to be accountable for that. If you are the coach or the manager or the GM and your team doesn't play sound fundamental baseball you have to be accountable for that. If it was just one player that would be one thing. If it was just one game or one string of games that would be one thing. But that isn't the case. It is virtually the entire team. And it is on-going through the years.

You have to be accountable for that.

Makes you wonder then what the solution is. If the coaches don't feel they have to teach and the manager won't bench players for "baseball-stupidity" than what's the answer? You can't fine guys today for say not being able to get a bunt down...so how do you solve this? (besides "hoping" they figure it out- which as history shows hasn't seemed to work)

Lip

WhiteSox56
05-02-2015, 12:21 PM
The attitude portrayed by Parent is very scary. Makes you think that's the whole leaderships mentality. Not good and that very well may be what is making this team suck.

kufram
05-02-2015, 12:43 PM
I'd have to see the quote in it's context to make any kind of judgement and I'm not paying to read the Sun Times online. But if Parent is saying that these are big league ballplayers and they need to be accountable for not being able to play fundamental baseball... then I take his point. Major league players shouldn't need instruction in Baseball 101.

No need to jump on me for not attacking the organization as I'm not supporting it here... it is what it is and I know too little about it to pass comment.

Lip Man 1
05-02-2015, 01:14 PM
Compare and contrast Parent's comment with what Tony LaRussa told me in my interview with him for the Chicago Baseball Museum:

"For example for a long time coaches were just friends of the manager or guys getting their time in to get a pension. But Jerry recognized that because kids were being pushed to the majors earlier, the role of coaches as teachers became crucial. He embraced the idea of putting together the best coaching staff you possibly could, that the staff of a manager should be a force for developing players."

My how times have changed.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-02-2015, 01:21 PM
I'd have to see the quote in it's context to make any kind of judgement and I'm not paying to read the Sun Times online. But if Parent is saying that these are big league ballplayers and they need to be accountable for not being able to play fundamental baseball... then I take his point. Major league players shouldn't need instruction in Baseball 101.

No need to jump on me for not attacking the organization as I'm not supporting it here... it is what it is and I know too little about it to pass comment.

I agree but there's nothing wrong with some "reinforcement" from time to time is there? Robin was doing that in 2012. The Sox were better fundamentally, it was helping win games...then suddenly he stopped the practice. No one knows why...and the results are showing.

Do you continue to hope these guys will get it or do you start to try to do something to help change the situation? I know what I'd be doing.

Lip

Andrew C White
05-02-2015, 02:09 PM
Compare and contrast Parent's comment with what Tony LaRussa told me in my interview with him for the Chicago Baseball Museum:

"For example for a long time coaches were just friends of the manager or guys getting their time in to get a pension. But Jerry recognized that because kids were being pushed to the majors earlier, the role of coaches as teachers became crucial. He embraced the idea of putting together the best coaching staff you possibly could, that the staff of a manager should be a force for developing players."

My how times have changed.

Lip

Now that makes sense. Particularly given how kids are being pushed to the majors faster now. No spending 4-5 years learning the nuances of the game in the minors anymore.

kufram
05-02-2015, 02:48 PM
Surely if someone plans to be a professional baseball player he should know the "nuances" of the game before he makes it to the minor leagues. I mean it really isn't rocket science. By that time you must have had several years of organized baseball experience probably up to college level. By that time it must be more about developing your talent... not learning to hit the cutoff man.

Andrew C White
05-02-2015, 03:11 PM
Surely if someone plans to be a professional baseball player he should know the "nuances" of the game before he makes it to the minor leagues. I mean it really isn't rocket science. By that time you must have had several years of organized baseball experience probably up to college level. By that time it must be more about developing your talent... not learning to hit the cutoff man.

Apparently not.

Tragg
05-02-2015, 03:23 PM
From Mark Parent in the Sun-Times this morning:

"We’re not going to go around with every play that happens every day and re-teach that. This is the big leagues. You have to be accountable for that."


Lip
We wouldn't want you to strain yourself Mark and actually coach this team.
But I'm sure you and Robin remain steadfast in your loyalty to KW and JR and that what's most important.

SI1020
05-02-2015, 03:24 PM
Surely if someone plans to be a professional baseball player he should know the "nuances" of the game before he makes it to the minor leagues. I mean it really isn't rocket science. By that time you must have had several years of organized baseball experience probably up to college level. By that time it must be more about developing your talent... not learning to hit the cutoff man. You're never too old to practice hitting the cutoff man, getting down a bunt, turning the double play, the rundown play etc. etc. This is both very telling and depressing at the same time.

JB98
05-02-2015, 05:37 PM
Surely if someone plans to be a professional baseball player he should know the "nuances" of the game before he makes it to the minor leagues. I mean it really isn't rocket science. By that time you must have had several years of organized baseball experience probably up to college level. By that time it must be more about developing your talent... not learning to hit the cutoff man.

I said it in the other thread about the alleged team meeting. To me, it's not about "teaching fundamentals." That's Little League, not the big leagues. But, I do think reinforcement of fundamentals and situational baseball is necessary even for professional players. Sure, the staff may expect the players to know things, and they probably do know what to do, but they aren't getting it done. So what's a manager or a coach to do when that happens?

I'm not entirely sure what the correct answer is, but I don't think it's to shrug, say these guys are big-league players and expect it to correct itself on its own.

Paulwny
05-02-2015, 05:52 PM
I said it in the other thread about the alleged team meeting. To me, it's not about "teaching fundamentals." That's Little League, not the big leagues. But, I do think reinforcement of fundamentals and situational baseball is necessary even for professional players. Sure, the staff may expect the players to know things, and they probably do know what to do, but they aren't getting it done. So what's a manager or a coach to do when that happens?

I'm not entirely sure what the correct answer is, but I don't think it's to shrug, say these guys are big-league players and expect it to correct itself on its own.


You bench a player for a game and let him no why.
Players don't want to sit, they can't increase their stats.

all*star quentin
05-02-2015, 06:44 PM
I'd have to see the quote in it's context to make any kind of judgement and I'm not paying to read the Sun Times online. But if Parent is saying that these are big league ballplayers and they need to be accountable for not being able to play fundamental baseball... then I take his point. Major league players shouldn't need instruction in Baseball 101.

No need to jump on me for not attacking the organization as I'm not supporting it here... it is what it is and I know too little about it to pass comment.

It's free, when you see the survey pop up, scroll down and skip survey.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/570147/parent-white-sox-players-know-things


“What more can a player ask for? You want me to carry your bat to the plate? You try to stay consistent. One thing Robin is, he’s consistent with what he is whether you, I or whoever agrees with it, that’s the way he is. And the players have to take care of their stuff because he takes care of things the way he does.’’
“People are going to like you or dislike you no matter what,’’ he said. “So you might as well take care of winning the game and do the little things to help your team win. Then you’ll be accepted in [the clubhouse].


“Make the plays, get a bunt down, get the guy over. Get a pitch to handle on a sacrifice situation or a fly ball. Little stuff.’’

Dan H
05-02-2015, 06:48 PM
I said it in the other thread about the alleged team meeting. To me, it's not about "teaching fundamentals." That's Little League, not the big leagues. But, I do think reinforcement of fundamentals and situational baseball is necessary even for professional players. Sure, the staff may expect the players to know things, and they probably do know what to do, but they aren't getting it done. So what's a manager or a coach to do when that happens?

I'm not entirely sure what the correct answer is, but I don't think it's to shrug, say these guys are big-league players and expect it to correct itself on its own.

A large part of the answer is right in your post: You don't do things with a shrug.

I recall a Bulls game in the Seventies. Coach Dick Motta fumed on the bench as he watched a good team not execute. He told himself that the players needed to figure it out for themselves. But then he called time out and told the team just what they were doing wrong even though they were a veteran club. The Bulls won that game.

Maybe the White Sox should try this.

Boondock Saint
05-02-2015, 07:50 PM
Nobody is being held accountable.

Someone has to be accountable for that.

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2015, 08:00 PM
Teach fundamentals? No

Practice fundamentals daily? Yes

GlassSox
05-02-2015, 08:03 PM
Nobody is being held accountable.

Someone has to be accountable for that.

:clap:

Vernam
05-02-2015, 09:55 PM
Translated: "This mess isn't the coaches' fault." Almost seems like an Aaron Kromer moment.

Not that I completely disagree with Parent, just as I didn't disagree with Kromer. But it sounds like a sign of friction in the locker room, which shouldn't be surprising -- when a touted team is this ****ty, fingers will get pointed.

On the bright side, maybe it's a sign that Ventura and his staff know they're on the clock, just as Trestman knew his days were numbered.

Andrew C White
05-02-2015, 10:29 PM
There is an old adage... practice makes perfect. Intensified as... perfect practice makes perfect.

When I was young and working on my pool game I would go down to the pool hall and shoot at least 200 balls by myself before playing against someone else. I did that every day I could possibly get to the hall. And I got good at the game.

#1swisher
05-03-2015, 09:15 AM
Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan) 53m (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/594853517296209920)
[/URL] Punchless White Sox say there's no panic after 8-13 start: http://sun-tim.es/1E6AUjI (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/594853517296209920)


[URL="http://t.co/2QoQPj0DA9"]
(http://t.co/2QoQPj0DA9)
“Just baseball, really,’’ Todd Steverson said. “Baseball is a game of streaks, some good, some bad. Mostly average. I classify us between average and a tick below average.
“I’d rather get it out of the way now and get everybody rolling toward the middle-end of the year rather than conk out toward the end. … With the history and talent of our players – we didn’t put acquire them because they couldn’t play major league baseball – they’ll come around. They know it’s about them and they’ll rectify it.’’