PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 90 minutes after the fact 4/21 loss postgame thread


kittle42
04-21-2015, 11:40 PM
Um, go Hawks? Bulls?

tstrike2000
04-21-2015, 11:49 PM
Feces.

Noneck
04-21-2015, 11:50 PM
Apathy appears.

SoxSpeed22
04-21-2015, 11:58 PM
Hard to score when you strike out 15 times.
They say momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher, and Carrasco got his revenge on us for last time.

Wedema
04-22-2015, 12:07 AM
At least Thunderstruck was back before the game.

Boondock Saint
04-22-2015, 12:10 AM
Hard to score when you strike out 15 times.
They say momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher, and Carrasco got his revenge on us for last time.

It's a lot harder to score when five of your eight hits come when you've already got two outs in the inning.

JB98
04-22-2015, 12:19 AM
White Sox hitters struck out 15 times and didn't walk.

If you wanna hit a dinger, you gotta be a swinger.

Lip Man 1
04-22-2015, 01:53 AM
Obviously whatever momentum they got from last night's miracle went right down the toilet.

Raburn, yet again kills the White Sox. All you can do is laugh I guess.

Lip

Whitesox029
04-22-2015, 02:11 AM
Can I just say that may not have been the ideal situation for Carlos to debut? At least bring in a veteran with runners at the corners and two outs in a one-run game. Let Rodon start the next inning fresh if you're intent on getting him his debut. That had to be a confidence killer, especially after the Raburn at-bat went sour.

joegraz
04-22-2015, 06:14 AM
Can I just say that may not have been the ideal situation for Carlos to debut? At least bring in a veteran with runners at the corners and two outs in a one-run game. Let Rodon start the next inning fresh if you're intent on getting him his debut. That had to be a confidence killer, especially after the Raburn at-bat went sour.

Yes you can, and should. And that would suggest yet another bad judgement call by leadership. Can I just say that when being led by a fool, the players see it just like we see it. Sooner or later it's human nature to become the walking dead.

ChiSoxGal85
04-22-2015, 06:48 AM
Obviously whatever momentum they got from last night's miracle went right down the toilet.

Noesi with another bad outing, guy can't find the plate. Five more walks.

Raburn, yet again kills the White Sox. All you can do is laugh I guess.

Lip
Noesi didn't pitch that badly; he gave up a couple of solo homers and singles, which Rodon allowed to score, but he only walked one. Three of those 5 walks were Rodon's and the other was Duke.

Yeah, but Raburn...what the heck? He's a key member of the All-Sox Killer team.

amsteel
04-22-2015, 06:57 AM
In the past 2 games the offense has looked comatose for 16 of 18 innings, batters have struck out 25 times, and Danks and Noesi were the starters. They are 1-1 in those 2 games. I'll take it.

RV must have a timeshare he needs to get to in June because he can't even accidentally make a good decision right now.

DumpJerry
04-22-2015, 07:10 AM
Hahn needs to make a deal for Raburn. Once acquired, put him on the 60 Day DL since he will blow chunks as a player because he won't ever face the White Sox.

guillensdisciple
04-22-2015, 07:13 AM
Meh, we are 3 games under .500. No one except Abreu is hitting somewhat decently(Avisail too). We did have that comeback though. I am sure that will propel us to greater heights any day now.

KingXerxes
04-22-2015, 07:32 AM
Hahn needs to make a deal for Raburn. Once acquired, put him on the 60 Day DL since he will blow chunks as a player because he won't ever face the White Sox.

Funny......and probably true.

SI1020
04-22-2015, 07:53 AM
Can I just say that may not have been the ideal situation for Carlos to debut? At least bring in a veteran with runners at the corners and two outs in a one-run game. Let Rodon start the next inning fresh if you're intent on getting him his debut. That had to be a confidence killer, especially after the Raburn at-bat went sour. Can I just say that maybe they are rushing a young pitcher with 34 and a fraction innings of professional experience under his belt when he was called up.

Golden Sox
04-22-2015, 08:22 AM
Being a Season Ticket Holder, the White Sox had a seminar with Hahn last night before the game. Everything was rather civil. I thought there would be some degree of anger towards him because of the slow start this season. Hahn did say you can't judge a team until the season is 60 games old. Unless I'm misreading this team, I'm expecting big changes by the trading deadline. This mess probably isn't Venturas fault but I would be surprised if he's still with the team by the end of the year. Fans are tired of losing. This is going to be the third year is a row that this team has tanked. Hahn made a comment about Viciedo last night saying that he's sitting at home now. It might not of been a bad idea to keep him on the 2015 White Sox as a DH. He could of been the DH against lefties. LaRoche is useless against lefties. He reminds me of Adam Dunn when Dunn batted against the lefties. I never bought into this team making the 2015 Playoffs. The back of the rotation (Danks and Noesi) is bad. I did think this team would hit. Other than Abreu and Garcia this has been a dead team offensively. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom, but it looks like another long season on the South Side of Chicago.

G-Ville Sox
04-22-2015, 08:37 AM
I think it was a terrible use of Rodon last night. To bring a kid in for his debut in a jam like that is setting him up for failure. Then you leave the kid in when he clearly is struggling with nerves, etc. Basically throwing him to the wolves, RV doesn't even start warming anyone else up.

What is the point of having him in the bullpen if he is going to throw 60 pitches in one night? Bullpen arms typically (within reason) can throw on back-to-back days. Rodon is out now most likely until Friday at the earliest.

Personally, I think there is some panic in the White Sox organization about the slow start, the fan frustration, etc. On Friday of last week, whitesox.com had an article titled "White Sox wont rush Rodon to Big Leagues", 72 hours later he is up with the team. What changed? Losing 2 of 3 to Detroit wasn't the bullpens fault?

beasly213
04-22-2015, 08:47 AM
I'm OK with Rodon coming into the game when he did. Yeah he failed but his next time out hopefully won't be as much of a pressure situation and he'll be a lot more relaxed out there. You could tell he was nervous, and that's fine he should be in his big league debut.

Shark on the mound today, Sale tomorrow and Quintana on Friday, hopefully will lead to a little winning streak..

Hitmen77
04-22-2015, 09:06 AM
I'm not sure what Robin's logic was in bringing in Rodon for his MLB debut with 2 runners on like that. Oh well, hopefully the kid got his adrenaline rush out of the way last night and he's ready to settle down and start dealing for us.

Obviously whatever momentum they got from last night's miracle went right down the toilet.

Noesi with another bad outing, guy can't find the plate. Five more walks.

Raburn, yet again kills the White Sox. All you can do is laugh I guess.

Lip

:scratch: Were we following the same game? Noesi only issued one walk last night (he had 4 Ks). Aside from the 2 dingers he gave up, he was pretty much sailing through the first 5 innings. He was pulled with 2 outs in the 6th after giving up two 1-out singles.


Noesi didn't pitch that badly; he gave up a couple of solo homers and singles, which Rodon allowed to score, but he only walked one. Three of those 5 walks were Rodon's and the other was Duke.

Yeah, but Raburn...what the heck? He's a key member of the All-Sox Killer team.

russ99
04-22-2015, 09:06 AM
I think it was a terrible use of Rodon last night. To bring a kid in for his debut in a jam like that is setting him up for failure. Then you leave the kid in when he clearly is struggling with nerves, etc. Basically throwing him to the wolves, RV doesn't even start warming anyone else up.

What is the point of having him in the bullpen if he is going to throw 60 pitches in one night? Bullpen arms typically (within reason) can throw on back-to-back days. Rodon is out now most likely until Friday at the earliest.

Personally, I think there is some panic in the White Sox organization about the slow start, the fan frustration, etc. On Friday of last week, whitesox.com had an article titled "White Sox wont rush Rodon to Big Leagues", 72 hours later he is up with the team. What changed? Losing 2 of 3 to Detroit wasn't the bullpens fault?

Just another case of a complete lack of a plan when it comes to utilizing the pen.

I swear sometimes I think Cooper has a dartboard in the clubhouse.

It has to have an effect on the hitters, why give your all when half your starters get shelled constantly and then the pen is going to cough up any lead...

smac38
04-22-2015, 09:10 AM
Can I just say that may not have been the ideal situation for Carlos to debut? At least bring in a veteran with runners at the corners and two outs in a one-run game. Let Rodon start the next inning fresh if you're intent on getting him his debut. That had to be a confidence killer, especially after the Raburn at-bat went sour.

Par for the course with RV. I know it seems like an observation after the fact, but I don't know how you make that his MLB debut. I understand he's highly touted and has the stuff to succeed in that situation, but how about letting him get his feet wet before you throw him in a tough spot? It never ceases to amaze me the stupid crap this staff does.

G-Ville Sox
04-22-2015, 09:17 AM
He has no experience as a bullpen guy to this point. He was a starter all spring, and in Charlotte. His experiences is entering a game with nobody on!

Why the hell would you trot him out there in a 1-run game with runners on the corners? He has zero experience in that situation!

He was set up to fail by our "fan favorite" manager in his major league debut.

dickallen15
04-22-2015, 09:42 AM
He has no experience as a bullpen guy to this point. He was a starter all spring, and in Charlotte. His experiences is entering a game with nobody on!

Why the hell would you trot him out there in a 1-run game with runners on the corners? He has zero experience in that situation!

He was set up to fail by our "fan favorite" manager in his major league debut.

He pitched with no one on the next inning, and gave up 2 runs. One guarantee, if Robin didn't use him and Noesi gave up more runs, people would be wondering why he wasn't used.

G-Ville Sox
04-22-2015, 09:50 AM
He pitched with no one on the next inning, and gave up 2 runs. One guarantee, if Robin didn't use him and Noesi gave up more runs, people would be wondering why he wasn't used.

I totally agree, and every starter will give up runs at some point in time. However, I am speaking specifically to the bringing him in the game at that moment.

Irishsox1
04-22-2015, 10:28 AM
The way Ventura used Rodon was exactly how NOT to use a rookie in that situation without back up in the pen. I don't know what to say about Ventura other than the losses continue to mount and he can't get the team over .500.

I'll leave it to someone else who did more research about the Rodon decision. Link to the article. (http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/4/22/8466401/carlos-rodons-debut-sparks-more-criticism-of-robin-ventura)

Lip Man 1
04-22-2015, 10:44 AM
I'm not sure what Robin's logic was in bringing in Rodon for his MLB debut with 2 runners on like that. Oh well, hopefully the kid got his adrenaline rush out of the way last night and he's ready to settle down and start dealing for us.



:scratch: Were we following the same game? Noesi only issued one walk last night (he had 4 Ks). Aside from the 2 dingers he gave up, he was pretty much sailing through the first 5 innings. He was pulled with 2 outs in the 6th after giving up two 1-out singles.

Hitmen:

You are exactly right, it was early in the morning, I didn't realize what I had typed out, just frustrated I guess. This one is on me.

Lip

Lip Man 1
04-22-2015, 10:47 AM
Saw an interesting stat this morning. A sizable chunk of the lineup are historically sub-par in April. Leadoff man Adam Eaton (.238 career average in April), No. 2 hitter Melky Cabrera (.274), Silver Slugger Award shortstop Alexei Ramirez (.251) and cleanup man Adam LaRoche (.224) lead the way.

Lip

Hitmen77
04-22-2015, 10:55 AM
Saw an interesting stat this morning. A sizable chunk of the lineup are historically sub-par in April. Leadoff man Adam Eaton (.238 career average in April), No. 2 hitter Melky Cabrera (.274), Silver Slugger Award shortstop Alexei Ramirez (.251) and cleanup man Adam LaRoche (.224) lead the way.

Lip

Hopefully Eaton is coming around. He got on base a few times again yesterday. I wonder if he's putting too much pressure on himself to get things going at leadoff? It should be a decent lineup if/when the bats wake up.

Too bad the Tigers and Royals are both red hot right now. Regardless of how early it is, I really don't want the Sox to fall too far back even before we get out of April.

harwar
04-22-2015, 11:04 AM
Personally, I think there is some panic in the White Sox organization about the slow start, the fan frustration, etc. On Friday of last week, whitesox.com had an article titled "White Sox wont rush Rodon to Big Leagues", 72 hours later he is up with the team. What changed? Losing 2 of 3 to Detroit wasn't the bullpens fault?


Like i said in another thread, i think that the Sox were just looking for a positive in bringing up Rodon .. get his feet wet and learn the ropes .. i doubt anyone envisioned him being thrown to the wolves as he was last night .. i'm not sure who's call it is, briniging guys in from the pen .. if it's Coop or Robin, but in all my years of watching the game i have never seen anyone bring in a kid with no experience in the bigs, and only one outing of of the pen i think, in a situation like last night .. bring him in with a big lead or trailing big and let the kid make his mistakes, and joke about it afterward .. Rodon is a smart kid and has a world of confidence in himself, so i don't think that has been shaken too much..

Andrew C White
04-22-2015, 11:10 AM
Hahn needs to make a deal for Raburn. Once acquired, put him on the 60 Day DL since he will blow chunks as a player because he won't ever face the White Sox.

The Mark Teahan approach.

Andrew C White
04-22-2015, 11:19 AM
Saw an interesting stat this morning. A sizable chunk of the lineup are historically sub-par in April. Leadoff man Adam Eaton (.238 career average in April), No. 2 hitter Melky Cabrera (.274), Silver Slugger Award shortstop Alexei Ramirez (.251) and cleanup man Adam LaRoche (.224) lead the way.

Lip

That is an interesting set of statistics. Small sample for Eaton but solid for the other three.

I remain unconcerned about the line-up. This team will hit... and we've already seen some signs of it's ability... did again last night though nothing came of it.

I also think the pitching staff will be (mostly) fine.

But I think the defense will be a continual problem and I wonder about base running and other decision making... both by players that lack fundamental skills and understanding of the game and in particular by management.

Count me amongst those that questions bringing up Rodon at this time and in the bullpen and questions even more bringing him in that situation last night for his debut.

#1swisher
04-22-2015, 11:21 AM
Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox) 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox/status/590911544151691264)

Candid Abreu this morn. Not disappointed w/ team but, "we have to make some changes probably in the way we are approaching the game."
He said Wednesday morning that while the team isn’t in need of a meeting just yet to help everybody get on the same page, he could see one being necessary in the near future.
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/23925/jose-abreu-says-team-approach-not-there-yet
Abreu: "We have to be more a unit, like a team, the players, the coaches, everybody. Because we need to start playing well … better."

Andrew C White
04-22-2015, 11:29 AM
It's my hope that Abreu becomes that leader on the team. We were talking earlier about needing someday to step up and take charge. I think he is the guy. Not just because he is the best player... though that helps. But he appears to have the seriousness and professionalism about him that is required. There was a story from early last spring where he took Alexei to task for goofing around on the field during infield practice instead of taking it seriously. For the new guy coming in to do that... I hope he does more of it.

FoulTerritory
04-22-2015, 11:29 AM
Can I just say that may not have been the ideal situation for Carlos to debut? At least bring in a veteran with runners at the corners and two outs in a one-run game. Let Rodon start the next inning fresh if you're intent on getting him his debut. That had to be a confidence killer, especially after the Raburn at-bat went sour.

Steve Stone was on the score and he agrees with you. Said that as far as he knows Rodon hasn't appeared in relief since he was in high school and to force him to make his debut out the bullpen (a completely different routine than he is used to) and in a pressurized situation is not a very good idea. He also wondered how they expect Rodon to work on his changeup when he's being brought in during important mid/late game situations.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts as well.

I think Hahn has done a pretty good job on the whole, but the Rodon in the bullpen doesn't make any sense to me. Especially considering that you have two starters that aren't very good and should be replaced sooner rather than later.

cv sox fan
04-22-2015, 11:30 AM
Sorry but this mess is robins fault. This team left spring training playing bad and has not improved much.There suppose to work on fundamentals in spring training this team has been lousy at base running,fielding has been sub par,hitting and hell guys who are suppose to know how to bunt cannot.This is Robbins fault,the SOX went out and signed much needed talent. Robin been a terrible leader since taking over the helm I wish they would fire him and find a real manager with major league experience.

Andrew C White
04-22-2015, 11:33 AM
Steve Stone was on the score and he agrees with you. Said that as far as he knows Rodon hasn't appeared in relief since he was in high school and to force him to make his debut out the bullpen (a completely different routine than he is used to) and in a pressurized situation is not a very good idea. He also wondered how they expect Rodon to work on his changeup when he's being brought in during important mid/late game situations.

Stone is right. If Rodon is supposed to be working on his changeup he should have been left in AAA to do it.

KingXerxes
04-22-2015, 11:45 AM
Stone is right. If Rodon is supposed to be working on his changeup he should have been left in AAA to do it.

But doing that would anger the Great Boras (who somehow now thinks anybody gives a rat's --- about his opinions on how teams are handling players).

smac38
04-22-2015, 12:01 PM
Is anyone really surprised by the way they used Rodon? It's the way everything is done in this organization...the complete opposite way of anything that makes sense.

Irishsox1
04-22-2015, 12:01 PM
Steve Stone was on the score and he agrees with you. Said that as far as he knows Rodon hasn't appeared in relief since he was in high school and to force him to make his debut out the bullpen (a completely different routine than he is used to) and in a pressurized situation is not a very good idea. He also wondered how they expect Rodon to work on his changeup when he's being brought in during important mid/late game situations.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts as well.

I think Hahn has done a pretty good job on the whole, but the Rodon in the bullpen doesn't make any sense to me. Especially considering that you have two starters that aren't very good and should be replaced sooner rather than later.

If Stone went on the radio and said that, then Robin must be on thin ice. Stone is free to say what he wants, but he basically called Ventura an idiot and he isn't worried about the Sox telling him to shut up. Add in what Abreau said today and it doesn't look good for Ventura and his 226-273 record as a manager.

Noneck
04-22-2015, 12:14 PM
If Stone went on the radio and said that, then Robin must be on thin ice. Stone is free to say what he wants, but he basically called Ventura an idiot and he isn't worried about the Sox telling him to shut up. Add in what Abreau said today and it doesn't look good for Ventura and his 226-273 record as a manager.


Yes it sure sounds like the natives are restless. I think a turn around needs to come soon or it will be a turnabout.

#1swisher
04-22-2015, 12:36 PM
670 The Score ‏@670TheScore (https://twitter.com/670TheScore) 26m26 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/670TheScore/status/590925375405961216)

Rick Hahn says team thought of putting Rodon in rotation right away, but innings a "scarce resource" for him this year.

JB98
04-22-2015, 12:48 PM
Like i said in another thread, i think that the Sox were just looking for a positive in bringing up Rodon .. get his feet wet and learn the ropes .. i doubt anyone envisioned him being thrown to the wolves as he was last night .. i'm not sure who's call it is, briniging guys in from the pen .. if it's Coop or Robin, but in all my years of watching the game i have never seen anyone bring in a kid with no experience in the bigs, and only one outing of of the pen i think, in a situation like last night .. bring him in with a big lead or trailing big and let the kid make his mistakes, and joke about it afterward .. Rodon is a smart kid and has a world of confidence in himself, so i don't think that has been shaken too much..

Yeah, I'm not worried about Rodon's confidence level, but that was a bad move by Ventura. You expect a guy making his major league debut to have jitters, so let him start his own inning. It was silly to expect him to come in and clean up another pitcher's mess in his first outing. That was pretty much the game there, too, 2-1 in the sixth inning. Get out of that inning and the Sox still have a chance. A veteran reliever would have been a much better choice, or just stick with Noesi. He wasn't throwing the ball poorly, and I believe he had fanned Moss earlier in the game.

TDog
04-22-2015, 01:00 PM
Noesi didn't pitch that badly; he gave up a couple of solo homers and singles, which Rodon allowed to score, but he only walked one. Three of those 5 walks were Rodon's and the other was Duke.

Yeah, but Raburn...what the heck? He's a key member of the All-Sox Killer team.


Noesi didn't pitch badly. His numbers look worse because his inherited runners scored. If Carrasco hadn't pitched so well, Noesi's outing would be looking good.

Bringing in Rodon to relieve him was the wrong call because of the way it turned out. It was the wrong call because he appeared not to be ready for the majors. it wasn't an intrinsically bad call. The organizational plan was probably to bring him in to relieve Noesi rather than start, hopefully giving him a chance to give him a chance to perform in a pressure situation without the anxiety leading up to it. It would shorten his first outing from the expected five or six innings minimum. Bringing in Rodon is a high percentage move in that he reportedly has great stuff and that he's a fresh arm the Indians hadn't seen before.

Terry Forster was 19 in April of 1971 when Chuck Tanner brought him into the bottom of the ninth in a tie game with the bases loaded in Yankee Stadium. Granted, Forster had a failed start before that, but getting out of the jam and sending the game into extra innings was the birth of Forster as a superior late inning reliever, although he would share the closer role with the emergence of Rich Gossage

In April 1972, Gossage, at 20, made his major league debut in the fifth inning of a tie game in Kansas City with runners on second and third and none out in relief of Stan Bahnsen. Gossage walked the first hitter, allowed the runner from third to score in what would be a 2-1 loss and had a great rookie season in his Hall of Fame career.

Rodon is more mature than Forster and Gossage were, and in college, he had completed at a higher level. He was put into a situation where he only needed one out. Even the next inning, starting fresh he had trouble throwing strikes and gave up two of his own runs. Leaving him in the game at that point is a matter of development. It probably cost the Sox the game, but you had to give him some chance of success.

Another team might have publicized his debut to sell tickets, as the Cubs did with Mark Prior. Another team might told Rodon he was starting in place of Noesi a couple of hours before game time. As much trouble as he had throwing strikes being thrown into the game without the anxiety of the anticipation, Rodon's debut seems destined to be a losing proposition. At least he got one scoreless inning, and hopefully it will prove a learning experience, just as I hope Johnson will learn from his struggles this season.

Noesi had to pitch very well to keep up with Carrasco, and he was nearly up to the task. Up until the Rodon inning, the only scoring in the game came on solo home runs. The Sox looked like they had a chance in the third, but for the second third inning in a row, Cabrera grounded into a double play with runners on first and second and none out in front of Abreu. I really had hoped Cabrera would bunt in that situation to put more pressure on the defense, especially after Eaton beat out his bunt.

The eighth-inning comeback, of course, starting with two out and none on fell well short, only managing to bring up the tying run.

ChiSoxGal85
04-22-2015, 01:01 PM
Honestly, I could not believe that Ventura put Rodon in that spot for his MLB debut. I can be patient well past a time that others might get upset, especially with what might (or might not be) poor managerial moves, but even I am getting irritated with Ventura.

^ I took a similar paragraph out of the TBGR before I published it. But the more I think about it, the more I regret not leaving it in. I thought perhaps there was some "logical" reason for it. I still I haven't heard a reason that makes sense to me. :angry:

IronFisk
04-22-2015, 01:56 PM
It's pretty clear that Rodon move was ridiculous. Makes you wonder if Robin has a grasp on reality.

FielderJones
04-22-2015, 03:26 PM
Bringing in Rodon to relieve him was the wrong call because of the way it turned out. It was the wrong call because he appeared not to be ready for the majors. it wasn't an intrinsically bad call. The organizational plan was probably to bring him in to relieve Noesi rather than start, hopefully giving him a chance to give him a chance to perform in a pressure situation without the anxiety leading up to it. It would shorten his first outing from the expected five or six innings minimum. Bringing in Rodon is a high percentage move in that he reportedly has great stuff and that he's a fresh arm the Indians hadn't seen before.

I was at the game, and when Rodon came in I thought it was a pretty high leverage position for a rookie. By the time I got home, I understood some of the thought behind it. The Sox were behind at the time, so it's not like Rodon blew a lead. Like you said, it was a chance to see the kid in a pressure situation. I think Rodon is made of sturdier stuff than to be destroyed by this outing.

Also, a lot of criticism for Ventura here but none for Cooper. Does anyone here really think it was Robin who called the bullpen to get Rodon warming up as Noesi was approaching 100 pitches? That Robin can override Cooper's advice about pitchers? Given that, to manage here you have to accept Coop as your pitching coach, I highly doubt it.

Noneck
04-22-2015, 04:25 PM
Does anyone here really think it was Robin who called the bullpen to get Rodon warming up as Noesi was approaching 100 pitches? That Robin can override Cooper's advice about pitchers? Given that, to manage here you have to accept Coop as your pitching coach, I highly doubt it.


I like to carry that concept up to where these hires are made.

Chez
04-22-2015, 04:38 PM
Also, a lot of criticism for Ventura here but none for Cooper. Does anyone here really think it was Robin who called the bullpen to get Rodon warming up as Noesi was approaching 100 pitches? That Robin can override Cooper's advice about pitchers? Given that, to manage here you have to accept Coop as your pitching coach, I highly doubt it.


Not just Cooper, but I thought Mark Parent was brought in to save Robin from himself. No?

TDog
04-22-2015, 05:32 PM
I was at the game, and when Rodon came in I thought it was a pretty high leverage position for a rookie. By the time I got home, I understood some of the thought behind it. The Sox were behind at the time, so it's not like Rodon blew a lead. Like you said, it was a chance to see the kid in a pressure situation. I think Rodon is made of sturdier stuff than to be destroyed by this outing.

Also, a lot of criticism for Ventura here but none for Cooper. Does anyone here really think it was Robin who called the bullpen to get Rodon warming up as Noesi was approaching 100 pitches? That Robin can override Cooper's advice about pitchers? Given that, to manage here you have to accept Coop as your pitching coach, I highly doubt it.

Rodon only needed to get one out. Bringing him in there was a high-percentage move and showed . If you think he is ready, and you don't want to start him, it's the best opportunity to begin his major league career.

Chris Sale, who made his debut facing the top of the order against the Orioles in the bottom of the eighth in a 1-1 game in September during a pennant race, was under more pressure in his debut. He got through it but the White Sox lost two innings later with Tony Pena on the mound.

Rodon probably wanted to come into the game. If he was ready to be brought up, he should have been ready to come into the game. And, really, the runs Rodon gave up in his first full inning of work had at least as much to do with why the Sox lost as the inherited runs he allowed.

Bringing him into the game was a move I think the Ventura made because it was his best chance to win the game.

I'm not going to criticize Ventura for making a high-percentage move in an effort to win the game, even if it turned out to be the wrong move. I'm more disappointed with Rodon both in and out of high-leverage situations. And I hope my confidence that he will be a much better pitcher in the future isn't misplaced.

Bobotty13
04-22-2015, 08:04 PM
Rodon only needed to get one out. Bringing him in there was a high-percentage move and showed . If you think he is ready, and you don't want to start him, it's the best opportunity to begin his major league career.

Chris Sale, who made his debut facing the top of the order against the Orioles in the bottom of the eighth in a 1-1 game in September during a pennant race, was under more pressure in his debut. He got through it but the White Sox lost two innings later with Tony Pena on the mound.

And Sale had thrown about 24 less innings at the minor league level if I read that stat correctly last night during the telecast.

Initially when Rodon was brought in I thought it was a high leverage situation to make a debut. But, then after thinking about it, the kid was brought up and the team announced he would begin his career in the bullpen so why not see what he has out of the bullpen.

Personally I'm not terribly upset with the decision to bring Rodon in. It was the 6th inning with the team down a run and a lefty at the plate. Now sure he may let another run or 2 score and he did,but maybe he comes in a strikes the guy out and starts the next inning fresh. Either way the debut is out of the way and it can be used as a learning experience.

Ultimately bringing him in in that spot shows the amount of confidence the team has in him, and that may be more beneficial than the outcome of the debut on the field. Got the nerves out of the way day one pitching in a close game. Sure he didn't perform anywhere near his talent level last night. If there is anything about the debut I am disappointed in, it is that

ricker182
04-22-2015, 09:38 PM
I have absolutely no problem with Robin bringing him in in that situation.
That's what he's here for, debut or not.

He needs to be better. I'm excited to see this kid pitch.

FielderJones
04-22-2015, 10:52 PM
And, he shaved his porn-stache (http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/23930/carlos-rodon-shaves-away-beginners-anxiety). :cool: