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Tragg
08-14-2002, 08:48 AM
Harris is struggling offensively, but i have no problem with pencilling him in and playing him most of next year.

But can we move into the spring with a .200 hitter at lead-off?

I don't know what we can do - i certainly don't want another attempt to overpay for erstadt (although we need a CF).

Procol Harum
08-14-2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Harris is struggling offensively, but i have no problem with pencilling him in and playing him most of next year.

But can we move into the spring with a .200 hitter at lead-off?

I don't know what we can do - i certainly don't want another attempt to overpay for erstadt (although we need a CF).

I like the cut of his gib as well--but in the 8th or 9th slot in the lineup. But, somehow, I'm not brimming over with confidence that Kenny will pull off a tremendous deal or that JR will pony up the bucks to snag any decent free agent-types that might be available.

:KW
"Maybe the Giants won't re-sign Lofton and I can pick up another bargain basement signee--man, it's just like 'Groundhog Day'!"

Dadawg_77
08-14-2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Harris is struggling offensively, but i have no problem with pencilling him in and playing him most of next year.

But can we move into the spring with a .200 hitter at lead-off?

I don't know what we can do - i certainly don't want another attempt to overpay for erstadt (although we need a CF).

If I am not mistaken Erstadt signed an extension with Cali a few weeks back.

I think we should let Willie play for the rest of the year before judging him to quickly. But I really don't like young guys at leadoff, in general they seem to put to much pressure on themselves which leads to their failure. Maybe as a second guy in the order would be great. Not sure who else is out there for CF/Leadoff job.

hold2dibber
08-14-2002, 10:16 AM
Erstad did in fact sign an extension with Anaheim (not Cali any more :smile: ) a few weeks ago. So he's not going to be the answer.

I also like Harris a lot, but see him, at least for the next year or two, as a bottom of the order guy. CF is looking like a real problem next year. Borchard appears to be a year away, and he's not a lead off hitter anyway. I don't think there's anybody else in the system who might be appropriate to bat lead off. It's a gaping hole going into next year, IMHO.

voodoochile
08-14-2002, 10:23 AM
I'm also concerened with Rowand batting second. If those two are batting 1-2 in the order, it could be a long season. The recent upsurge in the team has more to do with improved pitching and Magglio's hot streak along with some offensive life from Valentin and Frank then it does with our leadoff spots doing well.

Still, the two young guys should be allowed to finish the year in those slots, so we have a better idea of what to expect next year and make a decision if a change needs to be made...

Tragg
08-14-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
.

Still, the two young guys should be allowed to finish the year in those slots, so we have a better idea of what to expect next year and make a decision if a change needs to be made...

Absolutely - I wouldn't mess with either this year.

hold2dibber
08-14-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I'm also concerened with Rowand batting second. If those two are batting 1-2 in the order, it could be a long season. The recent upsurge in the team has more to do with improved pitching and Magglio's hot streak along with some offensive life from Valentin and Frank then it does with our leadoff spots doing well.

Still, the two young guys should be allowed to finish the year in those slots, so we have a better idea of what to expect next year and make a decision if a change needs to be made...

Agreed. The starting line up I'd like to see next year is:

???? - CF
Valentin - SS
PK - 1B
Maggs - RF
CLee - LF
Big Hurt - DH
Crede - 3B
????? - C
Harris - 2B

They desparately need a CF who can field well, get on base, and run like hell (a lot to ask, I know) and a C that doesn't suck (see - I don't always ask for too much) before next year. Of course, if we don't get at least two of the young starting pitchers (among Garland, Wright, Glover, Biddle, Rauch, Ginter) to develop into solid major league starters, the line up won't matter at all.

delben91
08-14-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


Agreed. The starting line up I'd like to see next year is:

???? - CF
Valentin - SS
PK - 1B
Maggs - RF
CLee - LF
Big Hurt - DH
Crede - 3B
????? - C
Harris - 2B

They desparately need a CF who can field well, get on base, and run like hell (a lot to ask, I know) and a C that doesn't suck (see - I don't always ask for too much) before next year. Of course, if we don't get at least two of the young starting pitchers (among Garland, Wright, Glover, Biddle, Rauch, Ginter) to develop into solid major league starters, the line up won't matter at all.

As for the catcher position, probably not next year, but soon after, it seems that Olivo will be ready, and the more box scores I see from birmingham, the more I believe he might be the real deal.

As for the pitchers, I really think Garland will be solid next season. My other favorite amongst that group is Wright. He isn't as consistant as Garland yet, however, as the season has progressed, he's gone way from being what I term an "extreme pitcher". Either extremely good, or extremely bad. He still has his extremely good outings, but if he doesn't have one of those, there have been more starts in the 6-7IP, 4ER range, as opposed to the formerly all so frequent 3-4IP, 7-8ER.

Also, and don't cite me on this, because it's just an impression, not researched, I think Wright's been walking fewer batters of late.

Randar68
08-14-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by delben91
Also, and don't cite me on this, because it's just an impression, not researched, I think Wright's been walking fewer batters of late.

He and Garland have both been throwing a lot more strikes since the All-Star break. I have seen a lot of first-ball strikes and pitching ahead. Never saw that in the first half.

Iguana775
08-14-2002, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


He and Garland have both been throwing a lot more strikes since the All-Star break. I have seen a lot of first-ball strikes and pitching ahead. Never saw that in the first half.

could this be the result of cooper?

Dadawg_77
08-14-2002, 01:32 PM
Why do we care what the offensive contribution from the catcher is? If there is a position that a team can use a poor hitter its behind the plate. Question, does anyone know how Olivo handles the staff down in the minors? How is his D? There are much more important things then just offense when it comes to a catcher, some of which comes through experience. I am not sure if we want to rely on a rookie catchers, especially when the Sox have a young staff. But then again, I think Miller is the best catcher in baseball right now.

Randar68
08-14-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Why do we care what the offensive contribution from the catcher is? If there is a position that a team can use a poor hitter its behind the plate. Question, does anyone know how Olivo handles the staff down in the minors? How is his D? There are much more important things then just offense when it comes to a catcher, some of which comes through experience. I am not sure if we want to rely on a rookie catchers, especially when the Sox have a young staff. But then again, I think Miller is the best catcher in baseball right now.


Damian Miller?

Olivo is still developing as far as game-calling and "defense". He has very quick feet and and a GREAT arm and throws out 40-50% of basestealers. However, I would like to see him with a full year catching a more veteran-type group of pitchers (AAA). He's a good and patient hitter, but still has some fundamentals to work on in terms his behind-the-plate skills.

Dadawg_77
08-14-2002, 03:28 PM
Yeah, Damian Miller.

hold2dibber
08-14-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Why do we care what the offensive contribution from the catcher is? If there is a position that a team can use a poor hitter its behind the plate. Question, does anyone know how Olivo handles the staff down in the minors? How is his D? There are much more important things then just offense when it comes to a catcher, some of which comes through experience. I am not sure if we want to rely on a rookie catchers, especially when the Sox have a young staff. But then again, I think Miller is the best catcher in baseball right now.

I don't care if the catcher isn't a great hitter, but I want someone who at least isn't practically an automatic out. A .194 avg (or whatever MJ is hitting now) ain't gonna cut it. All I'm asking for is a C who is above avg. defensively and who will hit may .230 - .240, might pop 10-12 HRs and can lay down a bunt when asked. I used to think MJ could be that kind of guy, but I don't any more. And Paul, obviously, is not. So I think we need a stop gap C for the next 2 years or so until we know whether Olivo is the real deal.