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View Full Version : Chris Sale not selected to AL Allstar Team


hoosiersoxfan
07-06-2014, 06:31 PM
Wow

JermaineDye05
07-06-2014, 06:38 PM
We all knew the game was a joke, but I don't think anyone expected that.

Unbelievable.

I don't see how one selects Betances over Sale.

LoveYourSuit
07-06-2014, 06:39 PM
Best WHIP in the game and not an allstar.

2nd best ERA in the AL.

What a joke.

Sale > Buehrle .

roylestillman
07-06-2014, 06:39 PM
In all my years, this is the worst snub I've seen. Is he in the last man in vote maybe?

robertks61
07-06-2014, 06:46 PM
How? Did they forget about him?

Noneck
07-06-2014, 06:47 PM
Snub is costing Sale 15k all star award bonus according to cots.

ZombieRob
07-06-2014, 06:47 PM
We all know the truth. Part of me is glad that he gets a chance to rest his arm and relax.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 06:48 PM
How? Did they forget about him?

Easy. Farrell took his own guy, Lester, over Sale.

soxfanreggie
07-06-2014, 06:49 PM
How? Did they forget about him?

In a year where someone like Jeter can be voted a starter but Sale is left off - it is what the AS game is - a farce. They try to play up the game for home field advantage but continue to let this crap happen. It would be slightly better if the starters were chosen by the manager. Best thing for Jeter to do now if he cares about the best players playing is play one inning and step aside.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 06:53 PM
I still think there's a pretty good chance he makes it in. He still might be in the last man vote, and even if not, there tend to be at least a few replacements every year. Plus, look on the bright side - if he doesn't go, extra rest for him never hurts.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 06:54 PM
Lester 2.73 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 122 K (not down time due to injury), .242 BAA

Sale 2.16 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 96 K (while missing a month of the season), .194 BAA

Trying to be fair, I'm thinking back to Ozzie picking seven or eight guys from the Sox in 2006. I'm pretty sure Buehrle didn't deserve to go that year. Contreras was still pitching well. I don't recall if anyone got screwed.

In this case, you have to look at the manager picks (not the player votes).

These are the guys Farrell picked:

LHP: Jon Lester *, Red Sox
LHP: Glen Perkins *, Twins
LHP: David Price *, Rays
RHP: Max Scherzer *, Tigers

anewman35
07-06-2014, 06:54 PM
Easy. Farrell took his own guy, Lester, over Sale.

Lester is the only Red Sox player, so I can't blame Farrell too much for that. He had to pick SOMEBODY.

JermaineDye05
07-06-2014, 06:56 PM
Lester is the only Red Sox player, so I can't blame Farrell too much for that. He had to pick SOMEBODY.

I'm more irritated that Betances from the Yankees was chosen. I mean, they already have the starting SS and likely the SP.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 06:57 PM
I'm more irritated that Betances from the Yankees was chosen. I mean, they already have the starting SS and likely the SP.

The players voted for him, blame them.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 06:58 PM
How does MLB treat this situation below? I know it's happened recently, but I can't recall when...

NL Pitchers
LHP: Madison Bumgarner ^, Giants
LHP: Aroldis Chapman ^, Reds
RHP: Johnny Cueto ^, Reds
RHP: Zack Greinke *, Dodgers
LHP: Clayton Kershaw ^, Dodgers
RHP: Craig Kimbrel ^, Braves
RHP: Pat Neshek *, Cardinals
RHP: Francisco Rodriguez ^, Brewers
RHP: Tyson Ross *, Padres
RHP: Jeff Samardzija ^$, Cubs/A's
RHP: Julio Teheran *, Braves
RHP: Adam Wainwright ^, Cardinals
LHP: Tony Watson *, Pirates
RHP: Jordan Zimmermann ^, Nationals

anewman35
07-06-2014, 06:59 PM
How does MLB treat this situation below? I know it's happened recently, but I can't recall when...

NL Pitchers
LHP: Madison Bumgarner ^, Giants
LHP: Aroldis Chapman ^, Reds
RHP: Johnny Cueto ^, Reds
RHP: Zack Greinke *, Dodgers
LHP: Clayton Kershaw ^, Dodgers
RHP: Craig Kimbrel ^, Braves
RHP: Pat Neshek *, Cardinals
RHP: Francisco Rodriguez ^, Brewers
RHP: Tyson Ross *, Padres
RHP: Jeff Samardzija ^$, Cubs/A's
RHP: Julio Teheran *, Braves
RHP: Adam Wainwright ^, Cardinals
LHP: Tony Watson *, Pirates
RHP: Jordan Zimmermann ^, Nationals

They already announced it - he gets to be "honored as an all-star", but can't play in the game, and they already replaced him on the roster.

Noneck
07-06-2014, 06:59 PM
Lester is the only Red Sox player, so I can't blame Farrell too much for that. He had to pick SOMEBODY.


Defending world champs and only one player on team, that shows how bad they are. It makes sense about Sale being snubbed.

JermaineDye05
07-06-2014, 06:59 PM
Sale on the final vote.

Get on it.

roylestillman
07-06-2014, 07:00 PM
Yep, he's on the gimmick vote. What a joke.

soxfanreggie
07-06-2014, 07:01 PM
Sale just announced as a Final Vote candidate.

LoveYourSuit
07-06-2014, 07:02 PM
Rizzo snubbed also.

I guess Cub fans and Sox fans can work together on something. Final vote.

JermaineDye05
07-06-2014, 07:04 PM
Final Vote Candidates:

1) Sale, CHW
2) Kluber, CLE
3) Porcello, DET
4) Richards, LAA
5) Keuchel, HOU

I'd say Sale already has an advantage given his profile. Outside of Porcello, I'm not sure many casual baseball fans know who the other three are.

chisoxjtrain
07-06-2014, 07:04 PM
Sox are partnering up with the Nationals for Rendon.

chaotic8512
07-06-2014, 07:07 PM
After I got the ESPN app update, I had to come here to see if it was an error... because with Sale's numbers, that was the only thing that made sense to me.

Nope...

http://edgecast.metatube-files.buscafs.com/uploads/videos/image/image_61146_1.jpg

And The Show has reached a new low.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 07:07 PM
The final vote roster looks like the old Sesame Street "which one of these things doesn't belong".

LoveYourSuit
07-06-2014, 07:09 PM
Merkin tweeted Sale not even top 5 in player voting for SP.

For those trying to take the vote away from the fans, player voting is as ignorant.

They voted Kasmir and Buehrle ahead. Comical.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 07:12 PM
Merkin tweeted Sale not even top 5 in player voting for SP.

For those trying to take the vote away from the fans, player voting is as ignorant.

They voted Kasmir and Buehrle ahead. Comical.

Unreal.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 07:14 PM
Merkin tweeted Sale not even top 5 in player voting for SP.

For those trying to take the vote away from the fans, player voting is as ignorant.

They voted Kasmir and Buehrle ahead. Comical.

Kasmir and Buehrle are 3 and 4 in ERA (Sale would be 2, but he doesn't have enough innings). Wouldn't surprise me if some of them just looked at the ERA leaders (which, again, don't list Sale due to lack of innings) and voted that way.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 07:18 PM
Kasmir and Buehrle are 3 and 4 in ERA (Sale would be 2, but he doesn't have enough innings). Wouldn't surprise me if some of them just looked at the ERA leaders (which, again, don't list Sale due to lack of innings) and voted that way.

Just to expand this thought, the top 5 in AL ERA were all voted in by the players.

RCWHITESOX
07-06-2014, 07:28 PM
Easy. Farrell took his own guy, Lester, over Sale.

Farrell is a complete idiot! If one of the best pitchers in baseball does not make this years Allstar team with out a fan vote I don't think I'll be tuning in.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 07:29 PM
Kinda sucks that the Sox are out of town for the whole voting period, makes it a big harder to build momentum. Hopefully shouldn't be too hard of a campaign anyway, though, if people just look at the stats...

JermaineDye05
07-06-2014, 07:30 PM
Farrell is a complete idiot! If one of the best pitchers in baseball does not make this years Allstar team with out a fan vote I don't think I'll be tuning in.

I wouldn't go that far. Regardless if Sale makes it or not, I'll be tuning in to see Abreu bat at least.

anewman35
07-06-2014, 07:35 PM
Farrell is a complete idiot! If one of the best pitchers in baseball does not make this years Allstar team with out a fan vote I don't think I'll be tuning in.

He only picked three starting pitchers (the rest were by player vote), and two of them are the only players from that team. I'd make the case that Max Scherzer is the one who shouldn't have gotten picked, because there was another Tiger anyway, but it would be awfully strange if there were three White Sox and one Tiger on the team given how the season has gone.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-06-2014, 07:47 PM
He only picked three starting pitchers (the rest were by player vote), and two of them are the only players from that team. I'd make the case that Max Scherzer is the one who shouldn't have gotten picked, because there was another Tiger anyway, but it would be awfully strange if there were three White Sox and one Tiger on the team given how the season has gone.

Victor Martinez, Miguel Cabrera, and Max Scherzer made the team, with Rick Porcello on the Final vote.

Best case scenario, Detroit and the Sox have 3 all-stars, should Sale win the vote.

Marqhead
07-06-2014, 08:22 PM
Just put in 20 votes for Sale and Rendon. They have it set up so you can vote over and over again rather easily.

waldo_the_wolf
07-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Funny how when Sale gets snubbed, the thread is full of people saying what a joke the All-Star Game is, but then when I opine that the winning league getting World Series home-field advantage is ridiculous I get torn a new one. :dunno:

PalehosePlanet
07-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Merkin tweeted Sale not even top 5 in player voting for SP.

For those trying to take the vote away from the fans, player voting is as ignorant.

They voted Kasmir and Buehrle ahead. Comical.

Absolutely right.

Like the NFL back in the day; the players are absolutely clueless.

This is how it used to go:
Player A: Who do you have for Tackle?
Player B: I don't know. who was in last year?
Clubhouse manager: Willie Roaf.
20 players all grab their pens and write in Willie Roaf.

Tragg
07-06-2014, 08:48 PM
Sale will win the vote easily.
It still pisses me off.

TDog
07-06-2014, 08:51 PM
I don't think Sale deserves a spot on the All-Star team because he went 34 days between his fourth and fifth start. I am guessing that's why the players didn't get more support among players under the belief that there were pitchers who went out and gave 100 percent when they didn't have 100 percent to give and did more to earn the honor.

DumpJerry
07-06-2014, 08:54 PM
These are the guys Farrell picked:

LHP: Jon Lester *, Red Sox
LHP: Glen Perkins *, Twins
LHP: David Price *, Rays
RHP: Max Scherzer *, Tigers
Where's Tanaka? According to some here at WSI, he's the East Coast favorite for ROY over Abreu. I think this shows that the MLB establishment is recognizing what Abreu is all about and he is the front runner for ROY.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 08:57 PM
I think Tanaka is in there, DJ. He's one of the guys that the players voted for. Farrell only picked the last four pitcher's spots.

hoosiersoxfan
07-06-2014, 09:04 PM
Where's Tanaka? According to some here at WSI, he's the East Coast favorite for ROY over Abreu. I think this shows that the MLB establishment is recognizing what Abreu is all about and he is the front runner for ROY.

Players had already selected Tanaka

amsteel
07-06-2014, 09:14 PM
Regardless he'll get in when someone backs out due to injury/pitching on Sunday.

HomeFish
07-06-2014, 09:17 PM
*shrug* the Sox are actually pretty good at winning the final man vote

tstrike2000
07-06-2014, 09:44 PM
Sale's arguably the best pitcher in all of baseball, let alone the AL. He'll make it I believe as a reserve, but it's beyond ridiculous it has to get to that point. As always though, the All-Star voting is a joke.

LoveYourSuit
07-06-2014, 09:47 PM
I don't think Sale deserves a spot on the All-Star team because he went 34 days between his fourth and fifth start. I am guessing that's why the players didn't get more support among players under the belief that there were pitchers who went out and gave 100 percent when they didn't have 100 percent to give and did more to earn the honor.

This is a load of ****. His time off doesn't take away that he is one of the best pitchers in the game if not the best right now.

Boondock Saint
07-06-2014, 10:00 PM
I don't think Sale deserves a spot on the All-Star team because he went 34 days between his fourth and fifth start. I am guessing that's why the players didn't get more support among players under the belief that there were pitchers who went out and gave 100 percent when they didn't have 100 percent to give and did more to earn the honor.

That's one of the dumber things I've ever read. If that's the belief of the players, Clayton Kershaw would have gotten the exact same middle finger that Sale got.

Soxman219
07-06-2014, 10:13 PM
Kershaw has the same number of innings as Sale pitched and he's gonna be the Starter for the NL. The fact Sale isn't there is an EMBARRASSMENT.

soxfanreggie
07-06-2014, 10:18 PM
Sale's arguably the best pitcher in all of baseball, let alone the AL. He'll make it I believe as a reserve, but it's beyond ridiculous it has to get to that point. As always though, the All-Star voting is a joke.

It is. I would be ok with fans voting in 8 or 9 players on the roster but they would just get a spot. The manager would get to determine the starters. At least it would be on him to determine the best one. That would mean nothing like this Jeter starting farce.

As for Sale, I like the voting once for Sale for each of his strikeouts so far.

TDog
07-06-2014, 10:20 PM
That's one of the dumber things I've ever read. If that's the belief of the players, Clayton Kershaw would have gotten the exact same middle finger that Sale got.

You may disagree, although you might not we were talking about a Yankees pitcher. It isn't so much a matter how intrinsically good someone is, but what they have done to earn All-Star selection.

I just assumed Sale wouldn't make the All-Star team this year when he was shut down for a month. He may yet make the team, perhaps out of mid-season pitching attrition. But up to this point, I was right.

Boondock Saint
07-06-2014, 10:29 PM
You may disagree, although you might not we were talking about a Yankees pitcher. It isn't so much a matter how intrinsically good someone is, but what they have done to earn All-Star selection.

I just assumed Sale wouldn't make the All-Star team this year when he was shut down for a month. He may yet make the team, perhaps out of mid-season pitching attrition. But up to this point, I was right.

That is patently false. Who he pitches for is irrelevant. Sale is as good as, or better than every pitcher in baseball not named Clayton Kershaw right now. "He missed a couple starts" is a wildly invalid argument.

Kershaw has the same number of innings as Sale pitched and he's gonna be the Starter for the NL. The fact Sale isn't there is an EMBARRASSMENT.

Exactly. I don't particularly care if Sale pitches in the All-Star game or not, but there's no reason why he shouldn't be there.

thomas35forever
07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
Everyone here needs to chill out. Sure, Sale shouldn't need the Final Vote to get in, but are you all forgetting his injury earlier in the year? He surely would be further up the more prominent leader boards if he didn't miss that time. Perhaps that has contributed to some of the "player ignorance" some of you have described and there's nothing that can be done about that. They'll pay attention at their own discretion.

I think Sale wins the Final Vote, and at least he's on the ballot. It'd be worse if no consideration was given for it.

delben91
07-06-2014, 11:10 PM
You may disagree, although you might not we were talking about a Yankees pitcher. It isn't so much a matter how intrinsically good someone is, but what they have done to earn All-Star selection.

I just assumed Sale wouldn't make the All-Star team this year when he was shut down for a month. He may yet make the team, perhaps out of mid-season pitching attrition. But up to this point, I was right.

I wish I was as awesome as you.

I predict the sun will rise tomorrow. If it does, I'm going to come on here and tell you all I was right.

:cheers:

JB98
07-06-2014, 11:37 PM
Since the game counts, Sale should be on the AL roster. He's the best left-handed pitcher in the league.

doublem23
07-07-2014, 03:18 AM
I do think the time on the DL is what cost Sale, even though undoubtedly if you were trying to collect the best AL team he would certainly be a part of it. Pretty surreal to think that he actually could be the 3rd most deserving player on a team that has spent the majority of the season below .500.

SOXSINCE'70
07-07-2014, 08:37 AM
In all my years, this is the worst snub I've seen. Is he in the last man in vote maybe?

Yes.

comiskey2000
07-07-2014, 08:53 AM
Frank Thomas in 2000 was a bigger snub. Heck, he should have won the MVP that year.

.328 Average, 43 HR, 143 RBI, 1.061 OPS, NOT an All-Star

Zakath
07-07-2014, 09:21 AM
Kershaw has the same number of innings as Sale pitched and he's gonna be the Starter for the NL. The fact Sale isn't there is an EMBARRASSMENT.

Kershaw - 10-2, 87.1 IP, 12 BB, 115 K, 1.85 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 0.199 BAA
Sale - 8-1, 87.1 IP, 16 BB, 96 K, 2.16 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 0.194 BAA

You can pretty much attribute Kershaw's higher strikeout total to pitching in the NL, where there's pretty much an automatic K at the bottom of every order. Otherwise, they're pretty much even.

cws05champ
07-07-2014, 09:27 AM
Kershaw - 10-2, 87.1 IP, 12 BB, 115 K, 1.85 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 0.199 BAA
Sale - 8-1, 87.1 IP, 16 BB, 96 K, 2.16 ERA, 0.87 WHIP, 0.194 BAA

You can pretty much attribute Kershaw's higher strikeout total to pitching in the NL, where there's pretty much an automatic K at the bottom of every order. Otherwise, they're pretty much even.

I posted this exact thing at MLB trade rumors....when Kershaw is being considered for the NL starter and Sale is not even on the roster, something is wrong.

I would like to see Sale's #'s pitching in the NL in that ballpark.

TDog
07-07-2014, 10:13 AM
I wish I was as awesome as you.

I predict the sun will rise tomorrow. If it does, I'm going to come on here and tell you all I was right.

:cheers:

I would be more impressed if you accurately predicted rain in California's drought-stricken Central Valley. You can disagree with me without insulting me with your response. I didn't insult anyone with my response. I don't believe I insulted anyone with my opinion and my perspective.

I'm not gloating over the fact that Chris Sale wasn't initially selected to the All-Star team, although I know how irritating it can be when posters who don't believe the Sox are good enough to win seem to gloat over the fact that they were right.

The prevailing idea was that it was the height of injustice and stupidity that Sale wasn't named to the team. I believe there was a reason Sale was left of the team. I believed a week ago that he was going to be left off the team. I believed in May he wasn't going to be an All-Star. Although I wouldn't vote for Sale, essentially the following comes close to summarizing my position.

I do think the time on the DL is what cost Sale, even though undoubtedly if you were trying to collect the best AL team he would certainly be a part of it. Pretty surreal to think that he actually could be the 3rd most deserving player on a team that has spent the majority of the season below .500.

That doesn't make me some arrogant hipster know-it-all. I was certainly forthcoming in admitting I was wrong when I believed Sale should have come out for the eight and even should have been left in to pitch to Trout in Anaheim.

SI1020
07-07-2014, 01:10 PM
I would be more impressed if you accurately predicted rain in California's drought-stricken Central Valley. You can disagree with me without insulting me with your response. I didn't insult anyone with my response. I don't believe I insulted anyone with my opinion and my perspective.

I'm not gloating over the fact that Chris Sale wasn't initially selected to the All-Star team, although I know how irritating it can be when posters who don't believe the Sox are good enough to win seem to gloat over the fact that they were right.

The prevailing idea was that it was the height of injustice and stupidity that Sale wasn't named to the team. I believe there was a reason Sale was left of the team. I believed a week ago that he was going to be left off the team. I believed in May he wasn't going to be an All-Star. Although I wouldn't vote for Sale, essentially the following comes close to summarizing my position.



That doesn't make me some arrogant hipster know-it-all. I was certainly forthcoming in admitting I was wrong when I believed Sale should have come out for the eight and even should have been left in to pitch to Trout in Anaheim. You're right nobody deserves to be insulted but you've really lost me on this one. I would be interested on your take concerning Kershaw making the NL roster.

TDog
07-07-2014, 04:30 PM
You're right nobody deserves to be insulted but you've really lost me on this one. I would be interested on your take concerning Kershaw making the NL roster.

Kershaw essentially started the season late. He pitched against the Diamondbacks in Australia in a game that counted, but that was more than a week before the start of the regular season in the U.S. Kershaw missed April with back injury. Maybe the difference is the way the situations were handled by Kershaw and Sale (or Sale's agent as seemed to be the case).

Sale's injury was more nebulous. He was sore at a time when a lot of pitchers are sore. Anything more to it wasn't discussed publicly. There was speculation that he the White Sox weren't forthcoming with the problem, that Sale might be looking at Tommy John surgery or even worse, but it looks like all he did was rest. If Sale were out with a back injury or a broken foot, a pulled groin muscle or even if he had started the season late, his injury would be perceived differently. The fact that Sale has been better overall since coming back from the disabled list is great news, but it reinforces the belief among some that there wasn't much of an injury to begin with.

As I wrote, I think I even posted something in a postgame thread a couple of Sale starts ago along these lines, I assumed the trip to the disabled list would keep him from being named to the All-Star team.

Everything above reflects a genuine legitimate concern that could lead American League players and management to not name Sale to the team. The way Sale is described on the MLB site points out that he missed a month with an injury. It is possible that Sale wasn't named to the team after not being voted in by players to increase the interest in the final vote. Richards is on the final ballot as well, and I imagine there is more pro-Richards/anti-Sale commentary on SoCal talk radio today.

My opinion, which is separate from my analysis of the previous paragraphs, differs from many here, and is probably closer to that of the players (who are now deemed as idiot as fans in selecting MLB All-Stars). I wouldn't vote for Sale because I think there are pitchers who are more deserving, not because they are better than Sale, but because they did more to earn the honor of being named to the team.

SI1020
07-07-2014, 04:54 PM
Kershaw essentially started the season late. He pitched against the Diamondbacks in Australia in a game that counted, but that was more than a week before the start of the regular season in the U.S. Kershaw missed April with back injury. Maybe the difference is the way the situations were handled by Kershaw and Sale (or Sale's agent as seemed to be the case).

Sale's injury was more nebulous. He was sore at a time when a lot of pitchers are sore. Anything more to it wasn't discussed publicly. There was speculation that he the White Sox weren't forthcoming with the problem, that Sale might be looking at Tommy John surgery or even worse, but it looks like all he did was rest. If Sale were out with a back injury or a broken foot, a pulled groin muscle or even if he had started the season late, his injury would be perceived differently. The fact that Sale has been better overall since coming back from the disabled list is great news, but it reinforces the belief among some that there wasn't much of an injury to begin with.

As I wrote, I think I even posted something in a postgame thread a couple of Sale starts ago along these lines, I assumed the trip to the disabled list would keep him from being named to the All-Star team.

Everything above reflects a genuine legitimate concern that could lead American League players and management to not name Sale to the team. The way Sale is described on the MLB site points out that he missed a month with an injury. It is possible that Sale wasn't named to the team after not being voted in by players to increase the interest in the final vote. Richards is on the final ballot as well, and I imagine there is more pro-Richards/anti-Sale commentary on SoCal talk radio today.

My opinion, which is separate from my analysis of the previous paragraphs, differs from many here, and is probably closer to that of the players (who are now deemed as idiot as fans in selecting MLB All-Stars). I wouldn't vote for Sale because I think there are pitchers who are more deserving, not because they are better than Sale, but because they did more to earn the honor of being named to the team. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense to me. Since Kershaw got hurt after his first start, had a back injury and somehow handled it PR wise better than Sale and his agent, he deserves to be an all star and Sale doesn't? I can't quit wrap my mind around that and if it makes me dumb so be it.

TDog
07-07-2014, 05:17 PM
I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense to me. Since Kershaw got hurt after his first start, had a back injury and somehow handled it PR wise better than Sale and his agent, he deserves to be an all star and Sale doesn't? I can't quit wrap my mind around that and if it makes me dumb so be it.

It is easy for me to believe that players who were sore in April would hold it against Sale perceiving that he went on the disabled list because he was sore in April while not holding it against Kershaw who went to the disabled list with a legitimate back injury in March. A lot of fans who are not White Sox Fans could and probably will hold it against Sale in the final vote. The fact that the statements I saw in the national media about when Sale believed he would be ready were being made through his agent have contributed to the Sale skepticism.

I live in A's country (sadly, there is such a thing), and there doesn't seem to be any Sale support here.

It is quite possibly would be different if Sale went down with a definitive groin injury or a dramatic hamstring injury as non-All Star Santiago Casilla did in May to send him to the disabled list for four weeks.

ricker182
07-07-2014, 09:45 PM
It is easy for me to believe that players who were sore in April would hold it against Sale perceiving that he went on the disabled list because he was sore in April while not holding it against Kershaw who went to the disabled list with a legitimate back injury in March. A lot of fans who are not White Sox Fans could and probably will hold it against Sale in the final vote. The fact that the statements I saw in the national media about when Sale believed he would be ready were being made through his agent have contributed to the Sale skepticism.

I live in A's country (sadly, there is such a thing), and there doesn't seem to be any Sale support here.

It is quite possibly would be different if Sale went down with a definitive groin injury or a dramatic hamstring injury as non-All Star Santiago Casilla did in May to send him to the disabled list for four weeks.

What? You make absolutely no sense.

cws05champ
07-07-2014, 09:48 PM
It is easy for me to believe that players who were sore in April would hold it against Sale perceiving that he went on the disabled list because he was sore in April while not holding it against Kershaw who went to the disabled list with a legitimate back injury in March. A lot of fans who are not White Sox Fans could and probably will hold it against Sale in the final vote. The fact that the statements I saw in the national media about when Sale believed he would be ready were being made through his agent have contributed to the Sale skepticism.

I live in A's country (sadly, there is such a thing), and there doesn't seem to be any Sale support here.

It is quite possibly would be different if Sale went down with a definitive groin injury or a dramatic hamstring injury as non-All Star Santiago Casilla did in May to send him to the disabled list for four weeks.
Are you kidding me? Sale had a Flexor tendon strain in his arm! He didn't just want to rest....if anything he wanted to keep going. But the Sox were smart and made him take extra time to make sure he was 100% healthy.

ricker182
07-07-2014, 10:04 PM
Are you kidding me? Sale had a Flexor tendon strain in his arm! He didn't just want to rest....if anything he wanted to keep going. But the Sox were smart and made him take extra time to make sure he was 100% healthy.

Don't feed the troll.

TDog
07-07-2014, 10:19 PM
Are you kidding me? Sale had a Flexor tendon strain in his arm! He didn't just want to rest....if anything he wanted to keep going. But the Sox were smart and made him take extra time to make sure he was 100% healthy.

I'm not kidding you, and I'm not a troll. There was a question posed, however rhetorical it may have been, as to how Sale could be left off the team. Of course the Sox were smart to rest him. The result is that he hasn't done as much as other pitchers in the league to earn a spot on the All-Star team. It's not a question of who has the best WHIP. It's a question of going out and earning the honor of being named an All-Star. Sale didn't sustain an acute spontaneous injury. He developed an injury from overwork in April when other starters were worked as hard or harder in April.

I had nothing to do with leaving Sale off the team up to this point. Sox fans will probably make sure he gets on the team anyway. But I think Sox fans are ignoring why there wasn't more support for Sale when the AL team was initially announced.

I'm also surprised there is so much indignation over resting Sale for a few days in mid-July when the Sox aren't playing from people who believe it was a good idea form people who believe it was a good idea to give him all the time he needed to make sure he was feeling better in April when he could have been pitching for the Sox.

ChiSoxGirl
07-07-2014, 11:01 PM
I just spent the better part of an hour stuffing the virtual ballot box for Sale. Sox fans are no strangers to voting in the 32nd man; we voted in Podsednik in '05, Pierzynski in '06, and Konerko in '11, and given Sale's dominance, this should be the easiest vote-in of them all.

doublem23
07-08-2014, 02:50 AM
He developed an injury from overwork in April when other starters were worked as hard or harder in April.

Yeah, that's... 100% bull****:

Pitches per start in April, for all 9 AL SP All-Stars plus Chris Sale:

Jon Lester, 112.8
Chris Sale, 112.8
Max Scherzer, 107.7
David Price, 104.2
Masahiro Tanaka, 103.6
Felix Hernandez, 101.2
Yu Darvish, 99.2
Mark Buehrle, 97.6
Scott Kazmir, 95.2


Any other easily refutable straws you'd like to grasp at?

SI1020
07-08-2014, 08:16 AM
It is easy for me to believe that players who were sore in April would hold it against Sale perceiving that he went on the disabled list because he was sore in April while not holding it against Kershaw who went to the disabled list with a legitimate back injury in March. A lot of fans who are not White Sox Fans could and probably will hold it against Sale in the final vote. The fact that the statements I saw in the national media about when Sale believed he would be ready were being made through his agent have contributed to the Sale skepticism.

I live in A's country (sadly, there is such a thing), and there doesn't seem to be any Sale support here.

It is quite possibly would be different if Sale went down with a definitive groin injury or a dramatic hamstring injury as non-All Star Santiago Casilla did in May to send him to the disabled list for four weeks. So what? Even if Sale was perceived as malingering, his performance on the field more than merits an all star selection. All the rest is superfluous BS and popularity contest jealousy of the worst kind. If Kershaw gets in so does Sale. You have been picky critical of Sale in the past, perhaps there is just something about him that rubs you the wrong way. It happens all the time in business, baseball and life in general. I admit to being critical of the glass fragility of today's pitchers but Sale when healthy is as good as it gets in today's game.

happydude
07-08-2014, 08:50 AM
I confess a lack of familiarity with the current selection process but if the players themselves had an opportunity to vote in Sale and didn't then, given his reputation around the league and his excellent stats, there has to be some non-performance related reason for the snub. I don't think TDog's speculative comments should be so quickly dismissed out of hand even though Sale's situation and Kershaw's are eerily similar (if Kershaw has enough innings in to qualify for the ERA rankings I'm betting it just happened last week).

Who knows what these guys' reasoning is. It would be a shock if he didn't get in with this supplementary vote or whatever they call it.

Moses_Scurry
07-08-2014, 08:54 AM
I don't think the players are idiots for not voting in Sale. I think the whole idea of having players vote on who makes it is idiocy. These guys are working almost every day. They play their games, they practice before the games, and still have to have some time for a life outside of work. It would not surprise me at all if the majority of players have no idea what kind of stats guys on other teams have put up.

I am a scientist. I am working my ass off to make new discoveries. I don't have the slightest clue how the careers of other scientists, other than the ones in my own lab, are developing. I will read papers to keep up on my own specialized field, but I read them based on the content, not who the author is. I can't imagine it is much different for these guys. They have to work their asses off to stay at the top level and avoid being released or traded to Pittsburgh or Cleveland. I'm pretty sure they are not spending very much time looking up the WAR leaders on Fangraphs and expanding the field to include pitchers who don't have enough innings to qualify. They probably spend exactly 30 seconds filling out their votes and base it first on the guys on their team, second on friends from other teams, and a distant third on guys in their division that they face a lot. And there is nothing wrong with that. I want my guys focused on their games and not what the other guys are doing.

End the player voting. I'm sure they won't give two ****s, and it will give the manager more flexibility to get the guys in who deserve it.

doublem23
07-08-2014, 09:03 AM
I confess a lack of familiarity with the current selection process but if the players themselves had an opportunity to vote in Sale and didn't then, given his reputation around the league and his excellent stats, there has to be some non-performance related reason for the snub. I don't think TDog's speculative comments should be so quickly dismissed out of hand even though Sale's situation and Kershaw's are eerily similar (if Kershaw has enough innings in to qualify for the ERA rankings I'm betting it just happened last week).

Who knows what these guys' reasoning is. It would be a shock if he didn't get in with this supplementary vote or whatever they call it.

I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

Moses_Scurry
07-08-2014, 09:12 AM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

The problem with this is that it is still true even if Sale had missed two months. We all know he's one of the best starters in the AL, but at some point you also have to reward the guys who have done it all season. If Sale had missed the season up to mid June and made three dynamite starts, he would definitely still be a member of the best talent in the AL, but would he deserve to go?

End player voting, End the stupid home field in the WS rule, and end the rule that every team gets a player.

SI1020
07-08-2014, 10:06 AM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous. Best overall explanation so far I think. Wish I'd phrased it that way.

Milw
07-08-2014, 10:13 AM
The problem with this is that it is still true even if Sale had missed two months. We all know he's one of the best starters in the AL, but at some point you also have to reward the guys who have done it all season. If Sale had missed the season up to mid June and made three dynamite starts, he would definitely still be a member of the best talent in the AL, but would he deserve to go?

End player voting, End the stupid home field in the WS rule, and end the rule that every team gets a player.
What we currently have is a ridiculous hodgepodge of competing interests (fan vote, player vote, team representation, homefield advantage) that all serve to work against the aim of having a compelling game.

Keep the home field rule, but end the other two. A true All Star Game -- one that features the 25 actual best players in each league -- in a game with real stakes would be awesome to watch.

FielderJones
07-08-2014, 10:20 AM
There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

I know there's very little love for Hawk on this site, but he made a good point during last night's broadcast. I'm paraphrasing here; in a meaningful game, in the 9th inning with runners on and a left-handed NL all-star at bat, which AL pitcher would you rather have to face him?

WhiteSox5187
07-08-2014, 11:53 AM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

I think that's the biggest reason he wasn't voted on. I don't know when the players vote on this, but if it's around the same time the fans do, the timing of the DL stints might be an explanation too. Kershaw missed the first month of the season and came back in May, which is around the time All Star balloting begins. That's also when Sale went on the DL, so he might have been more or less out of sight, out of mind. That's just my theory.

happydude
07-08-2014, 12:52 PM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

I find your hypothesis very interesting; it would have never occurred to me that there could be a financial aspect to the decisionmaking. As you suggest, player priorities and perspectives may be appreciably different than what we believe them to be or believe they should be. Even with something as seemingly straightforward as who or who isn't an All Star..

Noneck
07-08-2014, 12:58 PM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.



According to cots Sale is getting 15K for an allstar selection, do you really think other players are going to block him because he didnt earn that pittance?

SI1020
07-08-2014, 02:57 PM
I know there's very little love for Hawk on this site, but he made a good point during last night's broadcast. I'm paraphrasing here; in a meaningful game, in the 9th inning with runners on and a left-handed NL all-star at bat, which AL pitcher would you rather have to face him? We had a visitor in our home recently. To be an accommodating host I'd watch Cub games with our guest. I really wanted to have Kasper and Deshaies checked for a pulse. If this is the "professional" announcing team some are pining for count me out.

bunkaroo
07-08-2014, 03:01 PM
The other day Hawk talked over Stone yet again, but then actually apologized for cutting him off. Maybe Steve shot him a look, or Hawk is actually turning a corner....

TDog
07-08-2014, 03:37 PM
I have a suspicion, and this is just my own hypothesis, that the players didn't vote in Sale due to the DL stint because they know guys have contract bonuses attached to All Star selections so while Sale may be one of the 2-3 best pitchers in the American League, perhaps in the eyes of the players he didn't "earn" his All Star money this year the way that the other guys, who have pitched all season long have. It is hard to take any real exception with any of these SP, it's not like there is a clear outlier there.

I do think the DL stint hurt his candidacy but it overall shows the ridiculous selection process of a game that is supposed to "count." There's no way a healthy Chris Sale should be on the sideline if you're gathering a team of the best talent in the American League to play a meaningful game. Any argument to the contrary is utterly preposterous.

I think the bonus question is part of it. I think that with the bonuses being a consideration, the league, players and management, are more concerned with honoring pitchers who did more to earn the honor than finding the players who will give them the best chance of winning the night of the game. If you exclude some aspects of the fan voting, that's been the consideration for the All-Star Game from the start. I didn't have a problem with that before bonuses were common, and I don't have a problem with it now.

I have always believed that the best all-star teams are made up of players who did the most to earn their spots on the team. With 15 teams in each league, there will be deserving players who don't make the MLB All-Star Game.

Whatever the case, the league players and management passed over Sale. It wasn't writers or fans who overlooked him, although he could yet win the popularity contest or make a spot on the team due to attrition. I'm not going to complain that the selection process is screwed up just because I disagree with selections.

Domeshot17
07-08-2014, 03:46 PM
My guess is, and maybe I am wrong, that when they surveyed the players, Sale was freshly off the DL stint and had not been on the tear he is on

SoxNation05
07-08-2014, 03:59 PM
My guess is, and maybe I am wrong, that when they surveyed the players, Sale was freshly off the DL stint and had not been on the tear he is on
That's a fair guess. I can't see any situation where a left-handed hitter (all hitters really but left-handers with almost no exception) would not think of Chris Sale when they think of pitchers they hate to face most.