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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* Bullpen stinks again postgamer 7.5.14


LITTLE NELL
07-05-2014, 06:02 PM
Hard one to swallow. Blow 2 run lead in the 9th, walks are killing us, need Noesi to step up tomorrow.
Another very good outing by Q but all he gets is another no-decision.

chisoxfanatic
07-05-2014, 06:09 PM
Sox bullpen has shot themselves in the foot way too often this season. It's on them. But, it would've been nicer to have gotten an extra run in that 8th too.

34rancher
07-05-2014, 06:11 PM
Not sure who was worse:
Bullpen (I've never seen so many pitches in the dirt as I did in 9th and 10th), Dunn (pathetic in late innings with game tied. Heck just pathetic in general), DeAza (allergic to 1st base?), Beckham (no excuse for not getting to first on that dropped 3rd), Alexei (dude, shorten your swing) or Ventura (awful job today).

Overall pathetic long (unnecessarily) game.

Tragg
07-05-2014, 06:16 PM
The pen gave up 3 runs in 6 innings...meets the definition of "quality start".
The problem is the 9th. No one seems to handle it, although Petricka had done okay in the past; I figured he'd come out and take the ninth. Ventura decided to throw Surkamp out there for whatever reason (lefty/righty I suppose although that's usually not his 9th inning practice).
Someone needs to take over the 9th.

JermaineDye05
07-05-2014, 06:18 PM
Not sure who was worse:
Bullpen (I've never seen so many pitches in the dirt as I did in 9th and 10th), Dunn (pathetic in late innings with game tied. Heck just pathetic in general), DeAza (allergic to 1st base?), Beckham (no excuse for not getting to first on that dropped 3rd), Alexei (dude, shorten your swing) or Ventura (awful job today).

Overall pathetic long (unnecessarily) game.

I'm sure most of you already know who gets my vote.

Your best hitter comes in today with a 19-game-hitting streak and you pinch-run for him on 2nd with two outs already in the 9th in a tie ballgame. Took away two at-bats from him. Inexcusable.

WhiteSoxOnly
07-05-2014, 06:30 PM
Anybody know how many games the bullpen has blown with a 9th inning lead ?

SoxSpeed22
07-05-2014, 06:30 PM
Entering today, the Sox pen was the worst in the league when it comes to walks. There are fewer ball kickers than when a new reliver comes in and walks someone. This kind of stuff shadowed a great performance by Quintana. Let's just hope Noesi doesn't make it worse.

34rancher
07-05-2014, 06:44 PM
Anybody know how many games the bullpen has blown with a 9th inning lead ?

11. They were talking about it on radio after we left.

WSox597
07-05-2014, 06:45 PM
I really want to like Robin Ventura as a manager. It's just not happening lately.

Quintana has got to be talking to himself by now. As if 2013 wasn't bad enough for the poor guy. To duel with Felix Hernandez and have the bullpen puke it up yet again.

JB98
07-05-2014, 07:03 PM
I wasn't expecting the Sox to win at the start of today's game, because Hernandez was going for Seattle and he is a great pitcher. If the Sox had lost because of Hernandez, it would have been easy for me to take. But that wasn't the reason they lost. They were one out away from getting a win against the best pitcher in the American League, and they let it slip away. Frustrating.

Echo the other thoughts about the questionable managing. I didn't like Abreu being lifted from the game. Belisario for a third inning was too much to ask of him, as well, but I guess this coaching staff doesn't trust Webb or Rienzo at all. Although, to be fair, I wouldn't trust Webb or Rienzo either.

Tragg
07-05-2014, 07:14 PM
Lifting Abreu from the game for a pinch runner is just asinine. And this isn't the first time Ventura's done it. Ventura is simply limited in ability.

Chez
07-05-2014, 07:17 PM
Quintana's last four starts have been great. Putnam has been quite reliable this season -- until the 9th today. I didn't have a problem pinch-running for Abreau, but I was surprised to see Belisario come out for a 3d inning. Webb's stock has really fallen -- Coop and Robin just don't trust the guy. If they aren't going to let him pitch in tight games, then they might as well send him down so that he can get his command issues ironed out. It's not going to happen pitching once a week in the majors.

Tragg
07-05-2014, 07:24 PM
Entering today, the Sox pen was the worst in the league when it comes to walks.
The Sox as a team are last in walks allowed by a wide margin. They've given up 100 more walks (50% more) than the MLB leading Nats.

At least they're in the middle of the pack in walks taken. That's an improvement.

Mariners' pen was just lights out. I see why they're good. As much as I think Ventura has far too many lapses of mere competence, the Mariners' pen won the game.

Brian26
07-05-2014, 07:28 PM
Lifting Abreu from the game for a pinch runner is just asinine. And this isn't the first time Ventura's done it. Ventura is simply limited in ability.

It is one of those moves that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. Take him out, and you play another eight innings. Keep him in, and he gets thrown out at the plate, and everyone is calling for Robin's head anyway.

However, here's my issue with it. Robin made a wishy-washy decision on it. He could have taken Abreu out as soon as he reached first. He could have taken him out after he advanced to 2nd on the wild pitch. He actually waited until there were two outs to make the move. Perhaps its going over my head, but is there a statistical advantage to pinch-running with a guy on 2nd and one out versus two outs? If it was critical enough to take him out with two outs, he should have been taken out as soon as he reached 2nd. That's where Robin was indecisive.

SoxSpeed22
07-05-2014, 07:29 PM
Webb has been dealing with his mother's death ever since spring training. Since they have no confidence in him, they should probably have him on bereavement. I don't know how that works though.

Dick Allen
07-05-2014, 07:32 PM
These relievers need to be thrown into a large sack and dumped in the Chicago River. This team would be several games or more above .500 if not for the ****ing bullpen.

WhiteSox5187
07-05-2014, 07:53 PM
It is one of those moves that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. Take him out, and you play another eight innings. Keep him in, and he gets thrown out at the plate, and everyone is calling for Robin's head anyway.

However, here's my issue with it. Robin made a wishy-washy decision on it. He could have taken Abreu out as soon as he reached first. He could have taken him out after he advanced to 2nd on the wild pitch. He actually waited until there were two outs to make the move. Perhaps its going over my head, but is there a statistical advantage to pinch-running with a guy on 2nd and one out versus two outs? If it was critical enough to take him out with two outs, he should have been taken out as soon as he reached 2nd. That's where Robin was indecisive.

That is the biggest head scratcher. With two outs is when Abreu is most likely to score from second on a base hit since he would be running on contact. I still don't think replacing him was a good idea either way but the timing was even more curious.

shes
07-05-2014, 08:40 PM
Robin Ventura is a Little League manager. I loved the guy when he was a player, but man oh man I can't think of a worse manager in all of baseball. He just doesn't know what he's doing.

Things are starting to reach 2013 levels of unwatchability.

Irishsox1
07-05-2014, 09:02 PM
As soon as Ventura took out Abreau I knew it wasn't going to work and that the Sox would lose the game.

You pull Dunn or Konerko from the game but not the best hitter in major league baseball.

A dumb move from a manager in his third year who's still in over his head.

BainesHOF
07-05-2014, 09:30 PM
Incompetent managing yet again. Silly handling of the bullpen and ridiculous pinch-running for Abreu with two outs. Dumb pitch-calling by Flowers. Why doesn't he know Putnam needs to throw mostly splitters?

I love Quintana. Somebody better keep an eye on him at all times, however, so he doesn't leave the team.

Noneck
07-05-2014, 10:05 PM
Somebody better keep an eye on him at all times, however, so he doesn't leave the team.

Under club control through 2020.

cards press box
07-05-2014, 10:36 PM
Not sure who was worse:
Bullpen (I've never seen so many pitches in the dirt as I did in 9th and 10th), Dunn (pathetic in late innings with game tied. Heck just pathetic in general), DeAza (allergic to 1st base?), Beckham (no excuse for not getting to first on that dropped 3rd), Alexei (dude, shorten your swing) or Ventura (awful job today).

All of the above.


:hamms


That 9th inning would have aggravated even the most upbeat, like the Hamms' bear.

CoopaLoop
07-06-2014, 01:24 AM
Players must love playing for Ventura because I see nothing else he brings to the table.


Waiting until two outs to pinch run for your best hitter is complete clown shoes.

Jerko
07-06-2014, 06:10 AM
Can't stand the insistence for the lefty lefty bull**** that leads to 3 different pitchers to 3 consecutive hitters. Starter goes 7.2 shutout innings and you have to mix and match with a 2 run lead (or 4 run lead) new rule: you can't take a relief pitcher out if he got the last guy he faced out. You can't mix and match with this bullpen. They're not good enough. Guy gets a guy out leave his ass in. That's how you get stuck using Belisario for 3 innings

tstrike2000
07-06-2014, 09:36 AM
Webb has been dealing with his mother's death ever since spring training. Since they have no confidence in him, they should probably have him on bereavement. I don't know how that works though.

Bereavement is only up to 7 or 8 games. Yes, Webb walks a ton of guys, but Robin hasn't been using him at all. May as well just send him down to the minors if he's just going rot in the bullpen and we're forced to use Beli-garbage-io for one too many innings.

winstonage
07-06-2014, 09:51 AM
Players must love playing for Ventura because I see nothing else he brings to the table.


Waiting until two outs to pinch run for your best hitter is complete clown shoes.

That was my thought. First of all why not do it as soon as he got on base. If his thought process was, I need to make sure the guy can score on an extra base hit, or go first to third on a single, because I have to win this game now,because I don't trust my bullpen, I could buy it.

SCCWS
07-06-2014, 11:04 AM
When a team only gets 4 hits and 2 walks in 14 innings, it is pretty hard to blame the bullpen. Taking out Abreu further strains a weak offensive showing.

Tragg
07-06-2014, 12:06 PM
It is one of those moves that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. Take him out, and you play another eight innings. Keep him in, and he gets thrown out at the plate, and everyone is calling for Robin's head anyway.

However, here's my issue with it. Robin made a wishy-washy decision on it. He could have taken Abreu out as soon as he reached first. He could have taken him out after he advanced to 2nd on the wild pitch. He actually waited until there were two outs to make the move. Perhaps its going over my head, but is there a statistical advantage to pinch-running with a guy on 2nd and one out versus two outs? If it was critical enough to take him out with two outs, he should have been taken out as soon as he reached 2nd. That's where Robin was indecisive.
Agree. if he was going to do it, do it as soon as he reaches first base. That allows the Sox to get full value of L Garcia's speed and possibly manufacture a run. With 2 outs, Abreu would have been off on contact anyway, increasing his chances to score with a base hit (and the odds were low on a base hit happening anyway), lessening the need for a PR.
Players must love playing for Ventura because I see nothing else he brings to the table.
Maybe too much, with all of the lollygagging we saw last year. And of course motivated players don't like playing for someone who's soft on lollygagging.
I think think the front office likes him. Doesn't fight, cause problems, let's them know what's going on, gets along with Cooper, etc.