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View Full Version : Report: Sox and Mariners discussing Dayan Viciedo trade


Foulke You
06-25-2014, 07:03 PM
Make it happen Hahn. Time to cut the cord with Viciedo:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24474809/report-white-sox-and-mariners-discussing-dayan-viciedo-trade

Mariners Blog weighs in on rumor. Pretty spot on scouting report on Tank too:

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2014/3/11/5496390/mariners-curious-about-dayan-viciedo-shouldnt-be

Brian26
06-25-2014, 08:37 PM
I didn't look at the links yet, but Viciedo was tied to Seattle in Spring Training, and the return was going to be that bust outfield prospect...trying to remember his name...was it Saunders?

DSpivack
06-25-2014, 08:41 PM
I didn't look at the links yet, but Viciedo was tied to Seattle in Spring Training, and the return was going to be that bust outfield prospect...trying to remember his name...was it Saunders?
Those two stories are from spring training, each dated in march. But you remember correctly---the 2nd story mentions Saunders.

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2014, 01:38 PM
After reading that scouting report you have to ask why any team would ever want Tank. Not much we could get for him but there are some dumb GMs out there so maybe one of them will take a chance on him but what could we get in return?

Tragg
06-28-2014, 04:22 PM
Doesn't excite me much because a)I don't think we'll get much for him b)he has a lot of potential. Yes, he may not reach that potential but I'm willing to risk losing the light return we'll get (players with low ceilings) to see if he can hit that potential.

soxfanreggie
06-28-2014, 04:23 PM
After reading that scouting report you have to ask why any team would ever want Tank. Not much we could get for him but there are some dumb GMs out there so maybe one of them will take a chance on him but what could we get in return?

I think the answer is not much. You're looking at a project prospect, a guy who has some potential but is struggling (a busy), or a AAAA guy. Mgnt. Anything more than that is a steal.

Tragg
06-28-2014, 04:26 PM
I may take that young SS who, so far, can't hit. That would be a potential for potential trade.
Then trade Alexei, someone whose value should be soaring.

LITTLE NELL
06-28-2014, 06:05 PM
Well maybe his stock went up today with his 3 run homer.

Noneck
06-29-2014, 05:09 AM
At this point what you see is what you get, he is no prospect anymore. Strictly a DH with limited power, low on base percentage, poor speed on base paths, basically worth very little.

Foulke You
07-01-2014, 02:47 PM
Those two stories are from spring training, each dated in march. But you remember correctly---the 2nd story mentions Saunders.
Yeah, I didn't check the date stamp on those articles but the rumor mill on Twitter was talking currently about the M's interest in Viciedo. I wouldn't mind a Viciedo trade at all. I think Sierra could probably give you similar offensive production and give a big defensive upgrade. Not sure if I'm sold on Sierra as a long term solution but I would like to see the Sox cut the cord with Tank.

Domeshot17
07-02-2014, 04:39 PM
While this is all really old, I would not be shocked in the least to see us deal some combo of Tank and a reliever or such to Seattle for Montero, they seem to be pretty down on him.

Moses_Scurry
07-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I have to admit, I'll be sad to see the Tank go. I was really excited the day they signed him. I was seeing Miguel Cabreras in my eyes. I was probably almost as excited as when they signed Abreu. I really wish he had been a better player for us.

cards press box
07-02-2014, 05:55 PM
While this is all really old, I would not be shocked in the least to see us deal some combo of Tank and a reliever or such to Seattle for Montero, they seem to be pretty down on him.

Tank and Ronald Belisario for Jesus Montero and a minor league pitching prospect (probably low minors)?

If the Sox did that, I could see a lefty/righty platoon of Gillaspie and Montero at DH next season with Gillaspie playing some 3B and 1B as a backup and Montero catching occasionally.

Matt Davidson has been hitting well lately and hitting for power. Hope we see him in September and hope that he plays well enough in the last two months to challenge to be the Sox third baseman next year.

Hope the Sox call up Chris Beck and Micah Johnson, too, this September. Would like to see all of them play a few games.

Tragg
07-03-2014, 11:09 AM
Jose Bautista was garbage until he turned 29; Carlos Gomez did nothing until 27. Exceptions, obviously, except that they didn't just turn into competent hitters, they turned into exceptional hitters. It doesn't mean that you should hold onto everyone until they are 27.
It just means that you need to be careful and there's not reason to give him away.

Domeshot17
07-03-2014, 11:24 AM
Jose Bautista was garbage until he turned 29; Carlos Gomez did nothing until 27. Exceptions, obviously, except that they didn't just turn into competent hitters, they turned into exceptional hitters. It doesn't mean that you should hold onto everyone until they are 27.
It just means that you need to be careful and there's not reason to give him away.

Jesus Montero is hardly giving him away, he was a much better prospect than Tank ever was.

Tragg
07-03-2014, 11:46 AM
Jesus Montero is hardly giving him away, he was a much better prospect than Tank ever was.
I was speaking in general regarding Tank
Regarding Montero, he has been abysmal; and had be been a Sox and put up those numbers here, people would want him long gone.
Be if he's a top defensive catcher that might make some sense as there's a foundation. I think we should target defensive catchers anyway, and accept offensive weakness there.

doublem23
07-03-2014, 01:55 PM
After reading that scouting report you have to ask why any team would ever want Tank. Not much we could get for him but there are some dumb GMs out there so maybe one of them will take a chance on him but what could we get in return?

Sometimes teams see little things in a player's swing or (in the case of pitchers) their mechanics that they think they can fix. Sometimes guys need a change of scenery or a new coaching style/system to reach their potential. It doesn't happen often, but as has been referenced in this thread, sometimes busted out prospects do find a new life in a new environment.

Bottom line is Tank is 25 years old and has shown occasional flashes of competence (that yes, do get buried in his weeks and months long slumps), but if the price is just a team getting rid of a guy they're sick and tired of waiting for, these deals happen sometimes.

doublem23
07-03-2014, 01:57 PM
Jesus Montero is hardly giving him away, he was a much better prospect than Tank ever was.

However much better Montero was than Viciedo in the arbitrary rankings on the pages of Baseball America is how much worse he has been than Viciedo on the actual field over the courses of their career. Tank's been bad for us, yes, but Montero has been an absolute nightmare for the Mariners ever since he arrived. Probably the only thing he's got going for him is that luckily for him, Pineda's been a gigantic disappointment with the Yankees as well, so there's still time for him to not go down as the dud of that trade.

Tragg
07-03-2014, 02:10 PM
With the Mariners you're also talking about a team that plays Dustin Ackley (it's hard to find a worse hitting outfielder than this guy), James Jones and Michael Saunders in the outfield. I'm sure they'd love to swing one of those guys at us for Viciedo in a change of scenery trade, especially as Tank has far more power than any of them.
And I'm sure I wouldn't want the Sox to do it for one of those Mariners. The mariners always seem to have young pitching - that's where we should look.

dwalteroo
07-03-2014, 02:21 PM
the mariners always seem to have young pitching - that's where we should look.

+1

Foulke You
07-03-2014, 05:52 PM
Jose Bautista was garbage until he turned 29; Carlos Gomez did nothing until 27. Exceptions, obviously, except that they didn't just turn into competent hitters, they turned into exceptional hitters. It doesn't mean that you should hold onto everyone until they are 27.
It just means that you need to be careful and there's not reason to give him away.
I get your point and it is a vaild one. However, Tank would have to be a very late bloomer at this point and after 1500 plate appearances in the bigs now, the likelihood of him figuring it out becomes less and less. I think we know what we have and I'm pretty sure Hahn/KW knew it as well which is why they replaced him with Avisail Garcia and viewed him as a part time player. Tank has been given ample opportunity on this organization and I certainly wouldn't fault them for wanting to move on from him.

Tank has always tantalized with his power to all fields, but doesn't have the baseball acumen (or willingness) to cut down on his swing to become a better hitter. He fouls a lot of hittable pitches straight back because of his long swing. The flashes of success come when he stops overswinging for a few weeks but inevitably, his old habits always return. Tank's terrible defense (.958 fielding % and -1.2 dWAR) also make him a liability to the pitching staff and in order to make him worth the starting role, he needs to hit FAR better than he has done to make him worthwhile. I think the reshaping of the White Sox would be better without Tank in the long term OF plans.

I have to admit, I'll be sad to see the Tank go. I was really excited the day they signed him. I was seeing Miguel Cabreras in my eyes. I was probably almost as excited as when they signed Abreu. I really wish he had been a better player for us.
I didn't see Miguel Cabrera in him but what I thought this guy was going to be was another Carlos Lee. With the talent and strength he has, he *should* be a 30HR/100RBI guy every year just like Caballo was. One of the reasons I'm hard on Tank is because I believe the ability is still there if he would only listen to his coaches and stop swinging for the next solar system.

Tragg
07-04-2014, 11:07 AM
No doubt he has weaknesses and the odds are against him developing into a good player. But I don't think Avisail was brought in to replace him - the main reason Avisail was brought in was because he was the only offer for Peavy that our front office thought was really an elite prospect (those Red Sox Middleton et al were not). He replaced Rios anyway. But more importantly, you said he not only knows what to do to fix it but can actually fix it. There's something to build on there with good coaching.
And what are we going to get for him by moving him? Maybe something, as teams are interested in him. Maybe they see what you see and think they can bring some consistency to him. If the price is reasonable, fine. This article suggests that teams would be able to give at least something for him (Maurer has good stuff, albeit bad numbers).http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonred-sox&city=boston&i=TWT&id=38485&w=1e64p&src=desktop&wjb

But really, the Sox have one marketable player that I would assume we're willing to trade, that should bring significant return. And trading him should be selling high: Alexei Ramirez.

mrwag
07-06-2014, 10:10 AM
I have to ask a real question here - why don't we try to flip him for an arm and call up Jordan Danks? Isn't he a better fielder, same bat as Viciedo essentially? Wouldn't it give us a little more defense and speed and possibly bring in some bullpen help for the future? I don't follow the team like I used to so maybe you all know more than I do, but I didn't think Jordan Danks ever really hurt us, at least no more so than anyone else.

WhiteSox5187
07-06-2014, 12:06 PM
I have to ask a real question here - why don't we try to flip him for an arm and call up Jordan Danks? Isn't he a better fielder, same bat as Viciedo essentially? Wouldn't it give us a little more defense and speed and possibly bring in some bullpen help for the future? I don't follow the team like I used to so maybe you all know more than I do, but I didn't think Jordan Danks ever really hurt us, at least no more so than anyone else.

Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder, he does not fit into the long term plans for the White Sox. Now if Viciedo can bring back a decent arm, I think you could live with him Danks in the outfield for the rest of the year but it's not like you have a long term replacement with him.

Tragg
07-06-2014, 01:01 PM
Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder.
As you said, 4th outfielder, at best.
I wouldn't mind seeing a good LF platoon next year, with 2 guys who can hit one side and can field well. Then you only need a 5th OF. Wonder if Gillaspie can play LF.

TomBradley72
07-06-2014, 01:34 PM
Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder, he does not fit into the long term plans for the White Sox. Now if Viciedo can bring back a decent arm, I think you could live with him Danks in the outfield for the rest of the year but it's not like you have a long term replacement with him.

With this season clearly a rebuilding season- it's basically an audition for the 3rd OF spot next year (to go along with Eaton and A. Garcia)- in house candidates for 2015 are J Danks, M. Semian, L. Garcia- the level of org talent that Hahn inherited from KW was incredibly low- we don't really have a legit outfield prospect above A ball in the entire system- one of the reasons Hahn had to bring back De Aza for this year.

In addition we have no legit prospects for catcher, starting pitching or closer above A ball- so if we can address any of those gaps in a trade with the Mariners- I'm for it.

Brian26
07-06-2014, 02:19 PM
Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.

TDog
07-06-2014, 05:51 PM
Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.

An outfield with Morse and Viciedo would be more brutal than an outfield with De Aza and Viciedo, especially in San Francisco with its Triples Alley and a disc bulging in Pagan's back.

Tragg
07-06-2014, 06:36 PM
Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.
make 'em throw in a pitcher, too. Maurer will do. Good stuff, coop can fix.
I'd like to see what kind of pitching they can give us for Alexei.