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View Full Version : **Official** 4-29 Detroit takes over the Cell Postgame Thread


shingo10
04-30-2014, 12:14 AM
Man, the Tigers fans were LOUD.

That bunt to get the 4th run across with 2 outs eats at me but the Tank's error is what I should be mad at. Got to catch the ball.

Doesn't get any easier tomorrow.

Brian26
04-30-2014, 12:24 AM
Semien tries a safety squeeze and fails. Two innings later, Holaday pulls the same move and gets it down in front of Semien sleeping at third.

Good game. Some nice Detroit Sucks chants early...but way too many Tiger fans there. Thats what happens when the Michigan alumni dont have the Cubs in town.

Foulke You
04-30-2014, 12:27 AM
One of the few frustrating losses this year. I felt that the Tigers had no business winning this game. We had them on the ropes several times tonight and couldn't deliver the knockout blow. We expanded our K zone 2013 style tonight with RISP. Also, Tank needs to catch the freakin baseball. The Tigers won tonight because Viciedo couldn't catch a moderately difficult flyball that 97% of MLB otfielders catch. He needs to continue his hitting to justify his clown defense. On a side note, who else is sick of these transplant Tiger fans who come "all the way" from Lakeview and Lincoln Park to the South Side?

It took until April 29th but this is the first loss this year that truly pissed me off.:angry:

TDog
04-30-2014, 12:45 AM
Man, the Tigers fans were LOUD.

That bunt to get the 4th run across with 2 outs eats at me but the Tank's error is what I should be mad at. Got to catch the ball.

Doesn't get any easier tomorrow.

If the Sox get De Aza home after his one-out triple or push across Abreu after his one-out double, Viciedo would have been on the bench in the top of the ninth. Maybe Bellasario wouldn't have been in the game. Maybe the ninth would have gone differently, but Danks would have come in as a defensive replacement.

A frustrating loss to be sure. If the Sox had gotten down the bunt with De Aza on third and one out in the seventh (I double-checked game day to see the foul bunt come up on the 1-1 pitch), it would have been the Sox with four runs and a better defensive team on the field. Any loss, and the Sox have had a few this year, where the score differential equals or exceeds the number of runners who got to third with less than two outs without eventually scoring is frustrating.

Another frustrating aspect was the two two-out runs by the Tigers tying the score in the sixth. In Quintana's loss lat week, the Tigers scored their runs against him with two outs. Four straight hits with two outs to tie the game is a poor way to close out a quality start.

Verlander stepped up and struck out Semien and Eaton after ptiching around Flowers to finish his night, and he deserves credit for doing so. But the Sox got to him for three in the third tonight, and the White Sox couldn't get those third outs that could have turned that into a Tigers loss.

JB98
04-30-2014, 01:01 AM
The outfield defense is not a strong suit for this team. Eaton is fine in CF, but De Aza is below average in LF and Viciedo is poor in RF. Maybe Viciedo is struggling with the winds at USCF. No matter the reason, he has been brutal out there on this homestand.

slavko
04-30-2014, 01:11 AM
Bright side, looks like a bullpen is emerging. Semien's positioning on the winning bunt (not a squeeze with 2 outs) is likely a matter of no scouting report on Holaday with necessary information. Kudos to Ausmus and the Tigers.

Tank's got to look those balls into his glove. It's that simple.

Foulke You
04-30-2014, 01:13 AM
The outfield defense is not a strong suit for this team. Eaton is fine in CF, but De Aza is below average in LF and Viciedo is poor in RF. Maybe Viciedo is struggling with the winds at USCF. No matter the reason, he has been brutal out there on this homestand.
Eaton is a plus defender in CF no doubt. De Aza is probably average in LF and catches most of the balls he can get to. Alejandro's weakness is hitting the cutoff man regularly which is a big weakness for sure. Other than having a strong arm, Viciedo might as well wear his glove on his head when he is on defense. It seems that somehow Tank is worse in RF than he was in LF. Maybe it is the April winds like you mentioned but he seems to really be lost on anything hit in the air out there.

doublem23
04-30-2014, 01:17 AM
Semien tries a safety squeeze and fails. Two innings later, Holaday pulls the same move and gets it down in front of Semien sleeping at third.

Still a gutsy call, wherever it came from.

Sox meanwhile head runner at 3rd and 1 out and a runner at 2nd and 1 out in the 7th and 8th innings and went a combined 0-4 with 3 K and one weak FC to 2nd in those situations.

Sucks but just remember these guys finished 30 games ahead of us last season.

LITTLE NELL
04-30-2014, 07:31 AM
Viciedo is driving me crazy this year, the bonehead play on Sunday when he just stood there after dropping the ball while the Rays were scoring a run from 1st base should have called for a fine from Ventura. Garcia going down for the season has really hurt the OF defense. Its too bad Danks can't hit his weight then maybe we could trade Tank for some pitching. I guess the worst scenario is putting up with him this year with Danks the late inning defense replacement and next year Tank is the fulltime DH.

Brian26
04-30-2014, 07:49 AM
I am not sure Avisail would be that significant of an improvement to be an honest.

DrCrawdad
04-30-2014, 08:18 AM
Viciedo is driving me crazy this year, the bonehead play on Sunday when he just stood there after dropping the ball while the Rays were scoring a run from 1st base should have called for a fine from Ventura. Garcia going down for the season has really hurt the OF defense. Its too bad Danks can't hit his weight then maybe we could trade Tank for some pitching. I guess the worst scenario is putting up with him this year with Danks the late inning defense replacement and next year Tank is the fulltime DH.

I took some shots for saying this in the game thread but Tank has no business in RF in the 9th inning when he just batted in the bottom of the 8th.

I understand Tank is hitting well but the chances of him batting the 9th were slim to none.

Going into the 9th, if the Sox lead, tied or down by one run (with Tank 6+ batters away) I ask for Tank to have a defensive replacement.

TomBradley72
04-30-2014, 08:57 AM
My random $0.02-


Quintana going so well- the 4 ropes in a row to center/left center
Bullpen- Petricka and Bellisario pitched well
Seems like we lost some plate discipline in key ABs- chasing pitches out of the zone- kind of rare for this year so far
Time to slot Viciedo in as our DH for 2015
Didn't like PK pinch hitting for Semian- prefer Semian based on his performance in important late inning ABs this year as well as his speed if he gets on in that situation
Liking Beckham's defense up the middle

SBSoxFan
04-30-2014, 09:00 AM
One of the few frustrating losses this year. I felt that the Tigers had no business winning this game. We had them on the ropes several times tonight and couldn't deliver the knockout blow. We expanded our K zone 2013 style tonight with RISP. Also, Tank needs to catch the freakin baseball. The Tigers won tonight because Viciedo couldn't catch a moderately difficult flyball that 97% of MLB otfielders catch. He needs to continue his hitting to justify his clown defense. On a side note, who else is sick of these transplant Tiger fans who come "all the way" from Lakeview and Lincoln Park to the South Side?

It took until April 29th but this is the first loss this year that truly pissed me off.:angry:

As I was getting more and more :angry: as the game went along, I sat on my couch wondering why I was so upset about this loss. Your post is exactly how I felt. An extremely winnable game against a preseason favorite with, probably, their best pitcher on the mound. Plenty of blame to go around --- poor defense, no clutch offense late, and two-out runs allowed --- can't blame the bullpen on this one. And then, just to rub it in, Flowers hits a ball 400 feet in the bottom of the ninth for an out.

I'm surprised Semien bunted in that situation, given his penchant for late-inning heroics.

Still a gutsy call, wherever it came from.

Sox meanwhile head runner at 3rd and 1 out and a runner at 2nd and 1 out in the 7th and 8th innings and went a combined 0-4 with 3 K and one weak FC to 2nd in those situations.

Sucks but just remember these guys finished 30 games ahead of us last season.

I guess the last part is why it sucks so much. The Sox should have won this game handily, and maybe it's a statement game regarding how competitive they can be even this year. Yet, here they are, 1-3 against Detroit so far this year with a tough game coming this afternoon given the pitching situation.

I took some shots for saying this in the game thread but Tank has no business in RF in the 9th inning when he just batted in the bottom of the 8th.

I understand Tank is hitting well but the chances of him batting the 9th were slim to none.

Going into the 9th, if the Sox lead, tied or down by one run (with Tank 6+ batters away) I ask for Tank to have a defensive replacement.

Agreed - highly unlikely Tank bats again in this game and you needed your best defense out there. Of course, had this game gone 10 or 11 innings we would have all been upset that Danks was batting instead of Tank, much like we were upset that Garcia was pitching the 14th inning in the Boston game.

cards press box
04-30-2014, 09:00 AM
Thats what happens when the Michigan alumni dont have the Cubs in town.

Is that it? Nor shortage of loud, obnoxious Tiger fans there last night and Michigan alumni is as good an explanation as I've heard.

The Sox are young team and will have some growing pains, for sure. Last night's game is an example of that.

Having said that, the Sox had their opportunities to win last night but were not able to capitalize. And Tank's best position is really hitter. By next year, he will probably be the Sox DH.

TaylorStSox
04-30-2014, 09:36 AM
Viciedo is driving me crazy this year, the bonehead play on Sunday when he just stood there after dropping the ball while the Rays were scoring a run from 1st base should have called for a fine from Ventura. Garcia going down for the season has really hurt the OF defense. Its too bad Danks can't hit his weight then maybe we could trade Tank for some pitching. I guess the worst scenario is putting up with him this year with Danks the late inning defense replacement and next year Tank is the fulltime DH.

Garcia is an absolutely horrible defender. Tank is no better, but Garcia going down did nothing to hurt our OF defense.

LITTLE NELL
04-30-2014, 09:56 AM
I am not sure Avisail would be that significant of an improvement to be an honest.

Then we got problems, you are only allowed one DH a game.
IIRC Garcia wasn't bad last year but the few games he played this year before getting hurt
he sure wasn't going to be mistaken for Roberto Clemente or Al Kaline out there.

vinny
04-30-2014, 10:12 AM
Semien tries a safety squeeze and fails. Two innings later, Holaday pulls the same move and gets it down in front of Semien sleeping at third.

I can't lay fault on Semien for the failed safety squeeze. The pitch he got on it was high and tailing away.

We failed on RISP with less than two outs, and Tank's RF butchery in the 9th was the nail in the coffin. OK pitching (although I think they should have pulled Quintana in the 6th) + subpar hitting + poor defense = Sox loss.

TomBradley72
04-30-2014, 10:13 AM
Then we got problems, you are only allowed one DH a game.
IIRC Garcia wasn't bad last year but the few games he played this year before getting hurt
he sure wasn't going to be mistaken for Roberto Clemente or Al Kaline out there.

Scouting reports were pretty positive around Garcia's defense at the time of the trade- I wouldn't write it off based on some struggles he had in April-

TaylorStSox
04-30-2014, 10:31 AM
Scouting reports were pretty positive around Garcia's defense at the time of the trade- I wouldn't write it off based on some struggles he had in April-

He has the tools to be a good defender, but he has really poor instincts. That's not going to change. His future is in LF.

kittle42
04-30-2014, 10:36 AM
I had the game on the radio for about three innings yesterday, and I think Farmer mentioned how many Tigers fans were there in a disgusted tone more than he actually called the game.

doublem23
04-30-2014, 10:43 AM
Scouting reports were pretty positive around Garcia's defense at the time of the trade- I wouldn't write it off based on some struggles he had in April-

Yeah, weren't people talking about him as a potential CF at least while he was young enough to cover the ground?

TomBradley72
04-30-2014, 10:57 AM
He has the tools to be a good defender, but he has really poor instincts. That's not going to change. His future is in LF.

At 22-23 years old- I'm willing to give him some time- but no big deal if he ends up in LF if a RF emerges from the farm system.

TDog
04-30-2014, 12:36 PM
I can't lay fault on Semien for the failed safety squeeze. The pitch he got on it was high and tailing away.

We failed on RISP with less than two outs, and Tank's RF butchery in the 9th was the nail in the coffin. OK pitching (although I think they should have pulled Quintana in the 6th) + subpar hitting + poor defense = Sox loss.

When a starting pitcher has a 3-1 lead with two outs and no one on, you generally don't have anyone ready to come into the game if he gives up two singles, and you probably don't have anyone ready to come into the game after the third. You might have a reliever getting loose to prepare to get ready, but managers generally don't want to burn out their bullpen in the bullpen. The way things have been going in the White Sox bullpen this season, I doubt there was a realistic option to pull Quintana before he gave up the three runs. You don't want to begin warming up pitchers in earnest too early and you don't want to bring in a reliever with men on base who isn't going to be ready to come in and throw strikes. With the Tigers heading toward the bottom of the batting order in the sixth and your starter needing one more out, it everything happened too quickly.

As for the failed squeeze, the difference between a safety squeeze and a suicide squeeze is that you can let the pitch go if it isn't one you can lay down for a safety squeeze. It's possible De Aza missed the suicide squeeze sign, I suppose, making it look like a safety squeeze. Certainly you would rather have the runner on third miss the suicide squeeze sign than the pitcher. As it turned out, that at bat, turned the game around for the Tigers. The Sox had three other chances to drive in the go-ahead run with a hit, but a team like the White Sox can't afford not to get runners home from third and less than two outs. It ends up affecting the bullpen and the defensive alignments in the late innings.

TDog
04-30-2014, 12:44 PM
Yeah, weren't people talking about him as a potential CF at least while he was young enough to cover the ground?

Garcia started seven games in center for the White Sox last year. I don't know what he showed there, and he wasn't going to play center after the Sox acquired Eaton, but Garcia's outfield defense wasn't considered a liability.

JB98
04-30-2014, 01:38 PM
Agreed - highly unlikely Tank bats again in this game and you needed your best defense out there. Of course, had this game gone 10 or 11 innings we would have all been upset that Danks was batting instead of Tank, much like we were upset that Garcia was pitching the 14th inning in the Boston game.

And that's why it was the right move to leave Tank in the game. It just blew up on the Sox last night. When the game is tied, you still need to score at some point, so you don't take your best offensive guys out. Once you have the lead, then you put the best defense on the field. And, obviously, the best defense for this team involves JorDanks taking over RF. The loss last night was not Ventura's fault. It was Tank's fault. He missed the damn ball.

As far as Garcia goes, I don't think he'll be winning any Gold Gloves in the outfield, but he's not the liability Viciedo is. If Tank swings the bat well all year and establishes himself as a major league hitter, well, there's an opening at DH on the 2015 Sox. Neither Dunn nor Konerko will be here next year.

SoxSpeed22
04-30-2014, 01:41 PM
These are the kind of games that the Tigers know how to win, and that the Sox will have to figure out at some point. I am pleased that the clubhouse is still upbeat and optimistic.