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View Full Version : *Official* 4/16 Funny Pitching Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
04-17-2014, 12:33 AM
Too bad the punchline is a sad one.

kittle42
04-17-2014, 12:34 AM
I expect about one in five of our games to be blown saves.

JB98
04-17-2014, 12:35 AM
I expect about one in five of our games to be blown saves.

Funny thing is, Lindstrom had his best stuff of the season and maybe would have earned the save if he had been brought in to start the ninth.

Zakath
04-17-2014, 12:36 AM
Only give up 6 hits, but 15 walks.

Offense kept it interesting.

doublem23
04-17-2014, 12:36 AM
Our bullpen: 11 walks, 2 strikeouts, 1 infielder
Their bullpen: 1 walk, 9 strikeouts

Story of the game

dickallen15
04-17-2014, 12:37 AM
This game was lost because Downs, Petricka and Cleto refused to throw strikes.

I did find it interesting that it was considered poor bullpen management to take them out of the game in the gamethread, of course an hour or so after they were pulled. I guess if they do leave Downs in and he gives up 6 runs next game that still will be considered proper bullpen management.

doublem23
04-17-2014, 12:40 AM
This game was lost because Downs, Petricka and Cleto refused to throw strikes.

I did find it interesting that it was considered poor bullpen management to take them out of the game in the gamethread, of course an hour or so after they were pulled. I guess if they do leave Downs in and he gives up 6 runs next game that still will be considered proper bullpen management.

Really the biggest question I have is why the **** Cleto was brought out to start the 9th.

Boondock Saint
04-17-2014, 12:41 AM
This game was lost because Downs, Petricka and Cleto refused to throw strikes.

I did find it interesting that it was considered poor bullpen management to take them out of the game in the gamethread, of course an hour or so after they were pulled. I guess if they do leave Downs in and he gives up 6 runs next game that still will be considered proper bullpen management.

I mentioned it as it was happening. The quote (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3119564&postcount=85) was "If this game goes to extras, this team is ****ed". It doesn't take hindsight to realize that pulling every single pitcher who throws four balls is going to land you in hot water.

doublem23
04-17-2014, 12:45 AM
I mentioned it as it was happening. The quote (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3119564&postcount=85) was "If this game goes to extras, this team is ****ed". It doesn't take hindsight to realize that pulling every single pitcher who throws four balls is going to land you in hot water.

Just going to throw this out there, I know the outcome tonight was bad, but it's probably better long-term management to pull guys before they get lit up and not worry about the occasional 14-inning marathon than it is to just let those guys be automatic losses in the 7th or 8th inning.

In the end, it's just one loss. It will be OK, guys.

dickallen15
04-17-2014, 12:47 AM
I mentioned it as it was happening. The quote (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3119564&postcount=85) was "If this game goes to extras, this team is ****ed". It doesn't take hindsight to realize that pulling every single pitcher who throws four balls is going to land you in hot water.

They really weren't ****ed. They still had 4 innings to put up 1 run, and if those guys didn't walk so many, the game would have never gotten to extra innings.

amsteel
04-17-2014, 12:54 AM
Incompetent use of a useless bullpen. Hopefully all the **** will long gone by the time winning toss-up games like this will actually matter.

soxfan1965
04-17-2014, 12:54 AM
Really the biggest question I have is why the **** Cleto was brought out to start the 9th.
That's when the game was lost with a 1 run lead.

Soxman219
04-17-2014, 01:01 AM
Worst bullpen management I've seen in a while.

Boondock Saint
04-17-2014, 01:07 AM
They really weren't ****ed. They still had 4 innings to put up 1 run, and if those guys didn't walk so many, the game would have never gotten to extra innings.

They were, though. Boston had two guys pitch fewer than one inning, and one of them was the guy who ended the game. We had four of them, and they all pitched the same inning. After that, Robin was left with his closer, Webb, and a prayer. It was a miracle that we got five innings out of Lindstrom and Webb.

dickallen15
04-17-2014, 01:07 AM
Worst bullpen management I've seen in a while.

When the guys he puts in suck, and he tskes them out, why is that considered bad bullpen management? Besides Webb, who did give up a run his first inning, the only competent relievers tonight were the guys everyone loves to hate in Belisario and Lindstrom.

If your relievers perform how the Sox relievers performed tonight, they deserve to lose. This isn't on Ventura and Cooper, its on those guys.

RCWHITESOX
04-17-2014, 01:42 AM
When the guys he puts in suck, and he tskes them out, why is that considered bad bullpen management? Besides Webb, who did give up a run his first inning, the only competent relievers tonight were the guys everyone loves to hate in Belisario and Lindstrom.

If your relievers perform how the Sox relievers performed tonight, they deserve to lose. This isn't on Ventura and Cooper, its on those guys.

I believe it is on Cooper. All the walks are because they don't believe in their stuff or are trying to hard to pinpoint their pitch selection. Cooper needs to get things right with the young pitchers especially. Fifteen walks there is just no excuse for.

russ99
04-17-2014, 05:15 AM
We have a real bullpen problem. Kind of sad when our backup second basemen looks better than some of these guys.

I agree that a closer should start the 9th in a one-run game, especially when the guy your leaving in walked the bases loaded in the 8th, so this is partially on Ventura.

LITTLE NELL
04-17-2014, 06:24 AM
Throw strikes, there is no defense against a walk. I would rather see opponents hit their way on than give them free passes.

DonnieDarko
04-17-2014, 06:37 AM
I questioned Cleto starting the 9th as well. At the very least Lindstrom should have come in after the first BB.

Whatever. Put it behind you for the next game...

Railsplitter
04-17-2014, 07:52 AM
What is with relief pitching these days?

GoSox2K3
04-17-2014, 08:15 AM
Kudos to the White Sox fans at the Cell last night who stuck this one out to the end.

Jerko
04-17-2014, 08:51 AM
Maybe now when the Score goofs talk to Coop about walks, he won't go into wannabe godfather mode and yell "WHO?" back at them. Your entire bullpen, Coop, and Paulino too. That's who. I wonder if Sale wasn't scheduled tonight if Ventura would have showed a little more restraint yesterday.........the pen is very limited now (moreso) for tonight's game. That's why it was bad bullpen management. Could basically cost the team 2 wins.

doublem23
04-17-2014, 08:55 AM
Maybe now when the Score goofs talk to Coop about walks, he won't go into wannabe godfather mode and yell "WHO?" back at them. Your entire bullpen, Coop, and Paulino too. That's who. I wonder if Sale wasn't scheduled tonight if Ventura would have showed a little more restraint yesterday.........the pen is very limited now (moreso) for tonight's game. That's why it was bad bullpen management. Could basically cost the team 2 wins.

I wouldn't worry about it, 4 guys threw a combined 30-something pitches, it's not like everyone went out there and gave 2 innings of work.

Noneck
04-17-2014, 09:08 AM
I love doing whatever it takes to win. If you want to do the quick change pitching matchups early be prepared for later. Going balls out to win a game then to just give it up really disturbs me. When you go all in you cant back off.

doublem23
04-17-2014, 09:13 AM
I love doing whatever it takes to win. If you want to do the quick change pitching matchups early be prepared for later. Going balls out to win a game then to just give it up really disturbs me. When you go all in you cant back off.

Seriously, what percentage of games go 14 innings? I don't even think 10% of games hit extras at all, I would imagine tacking 5 innings on to a game happens less than 1% of the time, you can't seriously be arguing Ventura and Cooper should be managing for the 0.5% of games over the 99.5%, can you?

Guys, they lost last night. They're probably going to lose another 70-80 times this season, at least. It happens.

Noneck
04-17-2014, 09:44 AM
Seriously, what percentage of games go 14 innings? I don't even think 10% of games hit extras at all, I would imagine tacking 5 innings on to a game happens less than 1% of the time, you can't seriously be arguing Ventura and Cooper should be managing for the 0.5% of games over the 99.5%, can you?

Guys, they lost last night. They're probably going to lose another 70-80 times this season, at least. It happens.

Dont know the percentages but its not the 14th inning we should be looking at but the 11th with your only future back end reliefer on the staff as your last man standing. If the last man standing was a veal, belisario, downs, etc you ride them like a 5k claimer till the game is over. Or they could have considered the Paulino situation. If he was at the park he should have been considered. This is a garbage dump pitcher who will be mop up reliefer in a month anyway. Him losing his next start is insignificant and using an option on Rienzo and Petricka was going to happen anyway.

I know there will be many more losses to come and this wont be the one that keeps them out of the offseason but if you go all out to win a game you dont throw it away.

Moses_Scurry
04-17-2014, 09:44 AM
I wouldn't worry about it, 4 guys threw a combined 30-something pitches, it's not like everyone went out there and gave 2 innings of work.

Yep. Downs, Petrika, and Veal will be plenty fresh to walk more guys tonight!

The rest of this is complete hindsight on my part:

If Webb is seemingly at the moment the best guy in the bullpen, and if he clearly is not the closer at the moment, why did he not come in the 8th as the setup guy?

Tragg
04-17-2014, 10:11 AM
Sox went on the cheap with relief pitching. It made sense to do it and I'm glad we did as the team retools. They'll find a couple of keepers in there and try some new guys soon enough.
But when you need to use position players to pitch as early as the 14th inning, there is a gap somewhere.

ChiSoxGal85
04-17-2014, 10:34 AM
Not terribly upset about this loss, ugly as it was. 15 total walks, though - well, I'll say 13, since I wouldn't even really count the backup infielder/pitcher Garcia's walks - is horrendous. Even with that the Sox were still in the game...that says something for this team. Wonder where they'd be if Alexei was his usual April self?

I heard Coop on Mully and Hanley when I was out a bit ago, defending their use of the bullpen. He said something I don't recall hearing up to now: Lindstrom has a back issue, and that's partly why they didn't want to bring him back in for the 9th.

DrCrawdad
04-17-2014, 10:36 AM
Funny thing is, Lindstrom had his best stuff of the season and maybe would have earned the save if he had been brought in to start the ninth.

I wondered why Ventura yanked Bellasario after a good appearance.

Throw strikes, there is no defense against a walk. I would rather see opponents hit their way on than give them free passes.

The walks are so frustrating.

Crestani
04-17-2014, 10:37 AM
Really the biggest question I have is why the **** Cleto was brought out to start the 9th.


Because our manager is still "OJT"..!!

Either Lindstrom is the closer, or he is not, make up your mind Robin...!!!

hawkjt
04-17-2014, 10:43 AM
Good managers have decent bullpens. If you have a erratic bullpen, the manager cannot make the right decision.

Just when I thought it was safe to go to the pen, last nite happens.

Stuff happens. Tyler Flowers was clutch again, as was Alexei.

Bad nite for Eaton and Abreu...pretty rare for them so far.
Maybe a game off for Abreu over the weekend? Give PK a couple of starts in a row?

Overall...still in first place..so not gonna complain too much.

Chez
04-17-2014, 10:50 AM
That infield hit by Gomes in the 9th to load the bases was another killer. Despite all the garbage leading up to it, absent that swinging bunt, Lindstrom would have gotten the save in the 9th.

It's frustrating, but I take solace in knowing that when the Sox are ready to contend in 2016, no one currently in the bullpen other than Webb (and maybe Nate Jones) will still be on the roster.

Jerko
04-17-2014, 10:53 AM
I must admit, the boys don't give up this year.

palehosepub
04-17-2014, 11:25 AM
Kudos to the White Sox fans at the Cell last night who stuck this one out to the end.

I stayed to the bitter end - longest I ever was at a game.

It was nearly all red Sox fans at the end. There was only a few hundred of them but they were especially obnoxious.

palehosepub
04-17-2014, 11:31 AM
I was thinking that Ventura may have put a starter like Paulino in there in the 14th, I know he sucks but it would have been a better shot at winning than the 77mph fastballs of Garcia. They could make a move to send someone like Petricka down to the minors and bring up a spot starter for Fridays game.

14 inning games are rare but Robin did mismanage the bullpen. Hope he learns from it.

I think we need a long man in the bullpen ASAP.

BigKlu59
04-17-2014, 11:34 AM
:D: Yup, May have been an ugly marathon last night, but the Pale Hose hung on like a terrier at your pants cuffs till the inevitable attrition. Was pissed off though listening to those ass hats on MLB, gloating when the Bosox came back(Cause they are the better team) and would definately win it in 9... They showed the Sox comeback as they scratched and clawed and the studio was as silent as a classroom on Saturday morning.

As you say, they arent world beaters yet, but atleast hanging in every game with the chance of a big inning, or never out of a game so far.. Beats turning off the game after the 3rd inning..

BK59

Urban Legend
04-17-2014, 11:45 AM
Harold Reynolds, on MLB Tonight, castigated Alexei for not turning the double play on the grounder Big Papi hit (I think it was in the 9th before Sizemore's sacrifice fly tied the game, but maybe it was later - I was pretty sleepy! Would have been a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 DP, I believe). Watching the replay, Reynolds said that Alexei had to have been prepared for that, a hard slide, and had to, HAD TO, move right or left to get out of the way to turn the DP especially with the slow Big Papi running. Instead, Alexei ate the ball. That cost the game as Sizemore, if he would have done the same thing, flied out. Gamne would have been over. Sox win.

#1swisher
04-17-2014, 11:49 AM
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin) 38m (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/456826844344381440)

April 16, 2014: John Danks works six innings, throws 111 pitches. Eight relievers work eight innings, throw 164 pitches (25 by Garcia)

Chez
04-17-2014, 11:55 AM
Harold Reynolds, on MLB Tonight, castigated Alexei for not turning the double play on the grounder Big Papi hit (I think it was in the 9th before Sizemore's sacrifice fly tied the game, but maybe it was later - I was pretty sleepy! Would have been a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 DP, I believe). Watching the replay, Reynolds said that Alexei had to have been prepared for that, a hard slide, and had to, HAD TO, move right or left to get out of the way to turn the DP especially with the slow Big Papi running. Instead, Alexei ate the ball. That cost the game as Sizemore, if he would have done the same thing, flied out. Gamne would have been over. Sox win.

Reynolds is right. That should have been a DP. As should the ball Sizemore hit to Gillaspie in the 8th and Conor threw a lolipop to second. That also cost us a run.

SBSoxFan
04-17-2014, 12:20 PM
That infield hit by Gomes in the 9th to load the bases was another killer. Despite all the garbage leading up to it, absent that swinging bunt, Lindstrom would have gotten the save in the 9th.

Yes it was a killer. Even more so considering that the Red Sox made 24 outs in between that hit and their previous hit.

I thought Garcia was going to have an easy inning after he got two quick outs in the 14. I started to wonder if a position player has ever gotten a win in relief (as I figured the Sox would surely win it in the bottom of the 14th).

Noneck
04-18-2014, 10:40 PM
We will soon see how this all plays out but this a game that could have broke the teams spirit for the season. To give up and give away a game that they worked hard for on a cold miserable night against the world champions, could haunt this team for a long time. And I am not saying the loss means much but to give up and say uncle could be devastating.