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LITTLE NELL
04-03-2014, 05:05 PM
That was one ugly game with an ugly Sox bullpen on an ugly day.

BleacherBandit
04-03-2014, 05:06 PM
at least Abreu is continuing to tear it up

guillensdisciple
04-03-2014, 05:09 PM
To start off a game thread, my usual worthless two:

Once again, extremely happy that this team can hit. A breath of fresh air after watching some horrifically boring baseball for the past 2 years from this team. However....

This team still can't field. Don't know where that gets fixed, or how that gets fixed, but it needs to be fixed. I feel like fielding should never be a problem for major league ball clubs, but this is the second year where the Sox are just playing ugly baseball. It's not fun, and our starters can't feel encouraged out there.

The bullpen will be a sore for the season. For all the progress we will make with this offense, it will probably be offset by the bullpen. I don't think it will be to the extent of the same record as last year, but bad enough to get us 10 below .500. Which....

Is not BAD. The White Sox are a project at the moment. Unfortunately, due to years of bad spending and expectations that older is better, we have some holes to dig ourselves out of. Rick Hahn looks like he has built a solid foundation to solving the first half of the equation ( offense) and now it is the pitching's turn. I am sure that this will be taken care of by next year if not smoothed over sometime this year.

sucks to lose, but you sure as hell are not going to win every game in baseball. On to the next one.

Crestani
04-03-2014, 05:10 PM
That was one ugly game with an ugly Sox bullpen on an ugly day.


Nate Jones..??

Chez
04-03-2014, 05:10 PM
Bullpen snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Bad. Real bad.

Crestani
04-03-2014, 05:12 PM
To start off a game thread, my usual worthless two:

Once again, extremely happy that this team can hit. A breath of fresh air after watching some horrifically boring baseball for the past 2 years from this team. However....

This team still can't field. Don't know where that gets fixed, or how that gets fixed, but it needs to be fixed. I feel like fielding should never be a problem for major league ball clubs, but this is the second year where the Sox are just playing ugly baseball. It's not fun, and our starters can't feel encouraged out there.

The bullpen will be a sore for the season. For all the progress we will make with this offense, it will probably be offset by the bullpen. I don't think it will be to the extent of the same record as last year, but bad enough to get us 10 below .500. Which....

Is not BAD. The White Sox are a project at the moment. Unfortunately, due to years of bad spending and expectations that older is better, we have some holes to dig ourselves out of. Rick Hahn looks like he has built a solid foundation to solving the first half of the equation ( offense) and now it is the pitching's turn. I am sure that this will be taken care of by next year if not smoothed over sometime this year.

sucks to lose, but you sure as hell are not going to win every game in baseball. On to the next one.


The bullepen is scary...Who do you have confidence in..??

hawkjt
04-03-2014, 05:16 PM
Yes, early on it looks like we traded bullpen for offense, and that is how it has worked out.

Like the offense, tho.
Begs the question...would you rather lose while scoring runs or pitch better and lose low scoring games?

I think offense is harder to find, so I am ok with the tradeoff so far.

Lindstrom is not going to be a consistent closer, I suspect.

Too bad the Sox could not get Abreu and Viciedo home from third with one out....might have made the difference....Dunn struck out, and Alexei hit a lightning bolt to a drawn in SS...bad luck.

Is the real diff between good pitchers and bad pitchers the ability to throw strikes? We have struggled to throw strikes for awhile.

hawkjt
04-03-2014, 05:22 PM
Flowers had 4 hits.
Abreu is clutch.
Quintana was good enough (6 innings 1 ER).
Eaton makes a spectacular catch in center to save the day..for awhile.
Simien gets off the snide, I called that homer.
Dunn is doing his thing...keep hitting those dongs, and we can trade him for pitching prospects.

12 hits? I like it.

Noneck
04-03-2014, 05:26 PM
I would settle for a 77 hitmen year.

LITTLE NELL
04-03-2014, 05:32 PM
I would settle for a 77 hitmen year.

That would be fun.

kittle42
04-03-2014, 05:33 PM
This could be really ugly against teams that aren't worse than we are.

slavko
04-03-2014, 05:33 PM
I would settle for a 77 hitmen year.

Reminds me of that too. Got a wreck of a bullpen. Can't catch. 77 was a fun year. What the hey!

guillensdisciple
04-03-2014, 05:36 PM
This could be really ugly against teams that aren't worse than we are.


I disagree. Will we lose games? Absolutely, but I think we will get a lot of runs doing it. I am okay with it if I finally get to see some progress. We will show it. I don't think we should be discouraged.

I will only expect the worst when this bullpen comes in, but that's fine since I can only be happy when something good happens.

kittle42
04-03-2014, 05:37 PM
I disagree. Will we lose games? Absolutely, but I think we will get a lot of runs doing it. I am okay with it if I finally get to see some progress. We will show it. I don't think we should be discouraged.

I will only expect the worst when this bullpen comes in, but that's fine since I can only be happy when something good happens.

Oh, I will happily watch this team - at least it has a direction. Last year was sickening. I went to one game.

doublem23
04-03-2014, 05:37 PM
While we can certainly crucify the bullpen for this terrible effort, let's also remember the Sox let the Twins score what? 3 or 4 runs directly thanks to poor fielding. As a pitcher, it can't be comforting to know that if the ball is put in play, there's more than a chance it will not be fielded properly.

guillensdisciple
04-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Oh, I will happily watch this team - at least it has a direction. Last year was sickening. I went to one game.

Couldn't watch any, but I don't blame you. Don't like how the media is portraying us now. Deadspin kind of **** on our fan base on their site. Don't really think we deserve that.

Boondock Saint
04-03-2014, 05:44 PM
Nine runs should be a win. It's not going to be any easier against teams that aren't the Twins.

All said, though, 2-1 will get you to the postseason if you keep doing that.

Tragg
04-03-2014, 05:46 PM
Flowers is 4/4 and he's pinch hit for for a guy with zero at bats this season and who really shouldn't be on the roster.

BainesHOF
04-03-2014, 05:47 PM
The bullpen will be a sore for the season. For all the progress we will make with this offense, it will probably be offset by the bullpen.

Yes, and the starting pitching will be worse than last season.

We have two top-notch pitchers in Sale and Quintana, and then the rest of the pitching staff is, shall we say, not good. The pitching is going to be the worst it's been in many years.

Heff
04-03-2014, 05:47 PM
While we can certainly crucify the bullpen for this terrible effort, let's also remember the Sox let the Twins score what? 3 or 4 runs directly thanks to poor fielding. As a pitcher, it can't be comforting to know that if the ball is put in play, there's more than a chance it will not be fielded properly.

And, 5 out of the 6 walks came around to score. Lots of blame to go around, but I like the fight in this team so far. Hopefully we don't get the reversal of years past, with the offense pressing to make up for lack of pitching.

hawkjt
04-03-2014, 05:48 PM
Flowers is 4/4 and he's pinch hit for for a guy with zero at bats this season and who really shouldn't be on the roster.


Wrong. PK started yesterday's 10th inning rally with a hit.

Flowers ducksnorted his 4 hits...unlikely to get 5 of them in one game.

vinny
04-03-2014, 05:49 PM
Flowers is 4/4 and he's pinch hit for for a guy with zero at bats this season and who really shouldn't be on the roster.

If you're referring to Paulie, he was 1 for 1 yesterday in a pinch-hit appearance...:rolleyes:

kittle42
04-03-2014, 05:50 PM
Deadspin kind of **** on our fan base on their site. Don't really think we deserve that.

Maybe we don't, but the Sox do. I mean, that is a pathetic turnout even in this weather two days in a row, and it's a result of a few years of absolute junk.

SBSoxFan
04-03-2014, 05:50 PM
Another no decision for Quintana. 1 down 16 more to go!

SoxSpeed22
04-03-2014, 05:51 PM
6 twins walks and 4 of them scored, sums it up nicely.

guillensdisciple
04-03-2014, 05:52 PM
Flowers is 4/4 and he's pinch hit for for a guy with zero at bats this season and who really shouldn't be on the roster.

Nothing against you, but since this is an afront to Paulie I am slightly offended. Definitely feel he still can play baseball. This roster is not great enough to dismiss Konerko like that. We have a guy who hits .200 yearly batting in there.

DSpivack
04-03-2014, 05:54 PM
Nothing against you, but since this is an afront to Paulie I am slightly offended. Definitely feel he still can play baseball. This roster is not great enough to dismiss Konerko like that. We have a guy who hits .200 yearly batting in there.
And that's exactly his career average.

Tragg
04-03-2014, 05:55 PM
Nothing against you, but since this is an afront to Paulie I am slightly offended. Definitely feel he still can play baseball. This roster is not great enough to dismiss Konerko like that. We have a guy who hits .200 yearly batting in there.

Doesn't offend me. We don't need two DH onlys and I'll take my chances with 4-4 over someone with no at bats.
I don't know why he pinch hit for De Aza either, although it worked out well.
Don't like using relievers 3 days in a row either for many reasons.

amsteel
04-03-2014, 06:00 PM
Couldn't watch any, but I don't blame you. Don't like how the media is portraying us now. Deadspin kind of **** on our fan base on their site. Don't really think we deserve that.

Not sure what the Sox were expecting with the STH base around 10K and scheduling a day game with the kids in school. It's been 6 years coming. Enjoy the cheap tickets and the fact Deadspin actually noticed the Sox.

guillensdisciple
04-03-2014, 06:03 PM
Not sure what the Sox were expecting with the STH base around 10K and scheduling a day game with the kids in school. It's been 6 years coming. Enjoy the cheap tickets and the fact Deadspin actually noticed the Sox.

Can't take advantage of those ticket prices, but I get your point.

dickallen15
04-03-2014, 06:08 PM
Doesn't offend me. We don't need two DH onlys and I'll take my chances with 4-4 over someone with no at bats.
I don't know why he pinch hit for De Aza either, although it worked out well.
Don't like using relievers 3 days in a row either for many reasons.

Konerko was 1 for 1 coming into the game.

#1swisher
04-03-2014, 06:08 PM
Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN) 34m (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/451849924871614465)

Nate Jones acknowledged he felt discomfort in today's outing. Same as gluteal strain from spring.

SCCWS
04-03-2014, 06:11 PM
Maybe we don't, but the Sox do. I mean, that is a pathetic turnout even in this weather two days in a row, and it's a result of a few years of absolute junk.

Pirates drew 11,000 in light rain and Marlins drew 15,000 indoors. MLB wants to play day games in April in lousy weather. Attendance will suffer in many cities.

soltrain21
04-03-2014, 06:15 PM
I'd rather see Flowers hit than Konerko. I have no interest in what Konerko will do this year.

TDog
04-03-2014, 06:17 PM
Flowers is 4/4 and he's pinch hit for for a guy with zero at bats this season and who really shouldn't be on the roster.

Konerko got yesterday's ninth-inning rally started against the same Twins pitcher. He was also warm and loose, having taken some swings inside. I didn't have any problem with pinch-hitting there. Not that I know how beaten up Flowers was catching nine innings. I wouldn't have been surpirsed if he had pinch-hit for Dunn earlier when Duensing came in. But at that point there was plenty of game left, and eventually the Twins could run out of southpaw relief.

Really, it was that Dunn at bat against Duensing where I thought at the time the game might have been lost. The first time I thought that was the obstruction play, which led to three Twins runs. Then I thought the Sox would take off when Semien walked on a bases loaded 3-2 pitch with one out to tie the game. He hadn't just been hitless. He had struck out three times with a runner at third and less than two out while going hitless. The Sox offense pretty much shut down after Abreu's triple. The bullpen should have been able to hold the three-run lead, although the Jones-Cleto inning suggested that wasn't likely. Still, with Semien, as if walking earlier lifted a weight from his shoulders, coming up with a tie-breaking home run, it looked like it could be enough.

The Sox got a bad break when the Ramirez line drive with the tying run at third was hit right at the pulled-in shortstop, but the Sox caught a break when the Viciedo pop up turned into a little-league triple.

Today's game wasn't as ugly as yesterday's game, except that it was a Sox loss. But it showed why good hitting is rarely enough to overcome bad pitching.

#1swisher
04-03-2014, 06:19 PM
Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan) 2h (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/451824435398328320)

#whitesox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23whitesox&src=hash) offering free ticket to any April home game for any fan who held ticket for today’s game. Offer good whether fan attended or not.

LITTLE NELL
04-03-2014, 06:20 PM
Pirates drew 11,000 in light rain and Marlins drew 15,000 indoors. MLB wants to play day games in April in lousy weather. Attendance will suffer in many cities.

The only way to avoid this if they continue with a 162 game season is to go back to Sunday doubleheaders. We know we will never see that again as MLB teams hate giving away free baseball games so fans will have to endure watching baseball in football like weather conditions.

cards press box
04-03-2014, 06:24 PM
Couldn't watch any, but I don't blame you. Don't like how the media is portraying us now. Deadspin kind of **** on our fan base on their site. Don't really think we deserve that.

Yeah, I saw that, too. Seriously, can someone at that website open a damn window. It is 37 degrees with a cold rain falling all day. Who wants to sit through that?

Personally, I think the posters at Deadspin (and one was a "personality" from WGN radio) are just miffed that Rick Hahn has been and will be a lot better at this rebuilding concept than the former honchos of the Old Towne Team and current honchos at Clark and Addison are.

That was one ugly game with an ugly Sox bullpen on an ugly day.

Yeah, it was all pretty ugly. Hard to reach too many conclusions on anything but particularly defense from a game played in those conditions.

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN) 34m (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/451849924871614465)

Nate Jones acknowledged he felt discomfort in today's outing. Same as gluteal strain from spring.

How long before Jones goes to the DL and Javy Guerra comes up from Charlotte?

TaylorStSox
04-03-2014, 06:44 PM
The poor fielding extended the game for both Paulino and Q, which shortened their outings and taxed the pen. I'm not excusing the walks, but we're 3 games in and pen is already tired. It's too bad because Q had some nasty stuff today. Over the last 2 games, A Garcia has misplayed 3 balls that led to 6 runs. He's getting awful reads on balls. I question his OF instincts. With that said, it's early and the weather was pretty bad. The Twins looked equally as bad defensively.

tstrike2000
04-03-2014, 06:51 PM
The bullpen was obviously bad today, but what really irked me was the three runs they gave up on one hit in the third. TFlow lets the ball go between his legs on a strikeout, we can't execute a simple rundown, then Avisail gets a bad read with the bases loaded to allow all three runs to come in. Just bad from every angle pitching and defensively.

hawkjt
04-03-2014, 06:52 PM
The poor fielding extended the game for both Paulino and Q, which shortened their outings and taxed the pen. I'm not excusing the walks, but we're 3 games in and pen is already tired. It's too bad because Q had some nasty stuff today. Over the last 2 games, A Garcia has misplayed 3 balls that led to 6 runs. He's getting awful reads on balls. I question his OF instincts. With that said, it's early and the weather was pretty bad. The Twins looked equally as bad defensively.


Yes, I was thinking that Garcia would be a better than average outfielder but he is struggling out there....maybe the wind has been new for him, since he has never been here in the spring?

Flowers not blocking the third strike on Escobar was huge, and then compounded by the botched pickoff rundown. Jose was rolling, and then as always when he gets guys on base, he struggled to maintain his command.

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 07:10 PM
While we can certainly crucify the bullpen for this terrible effort, let's also remember the Sox let the Twins score what? 3 or 4 runs directly thanks to poor fielding. As a pitcher, it can't be comforting to know that if the ball is put in play, there's more than a chance it will not be fielded properly.

Agreed

Yeah, I saw that, too. Seriously, can someone at that website open a damn window. It is 37 degrees with a cold rain falling all day. Who wants to sit through that?

Personally, I think the posters at Deadspin (and one was a "personality" from WGN radio) are just miffed that Rick Hahn has been and will be a lot better at this rebuilding concept than the former honchos of the Old Towne Team and current honchos at Clark and Addison are.

Yeah, it was all pretty ugly. Hard to reach too many conclusions on anything but particularly defense from a game played in those conditions.

How long before Jones goes to the DL and Javy Guerra comes up from Charlotte?

Me and other Sox fans often get bashed as "Flubsessed." Yet today, the Cubbies win their first game of the season, what are Cubbie fans talking about? Sox attendance. From Jordan Bernfield (http://deadspin.com/white-sox-games-are-eerily-empty-1557725119) to BleedCubbieBlue (http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2014/4/3/5578936/cubs-pirates-junior-lake-jersey-mlb-scores).

How would you describe the interest that Cubbie fans have about Sox attendance/popularity issues? Delusions of grandeur? Insecurities?

Nothing gives Cubbie fans a chubby like Sox "attendance issues."

Boondock Saint
04-03-2014, 07:11 PM
The poor fielding extended the game for both Paulino and Q, which shortened their outings and taxed the pen. I'm not excusing the walks, but we're 3 games in and pen is already tired. It's too bad because Q had some nasty stuff today. Over the last 2 games, A Garcia has misplayed 3 balls that led to 6 runs. He's getting awful reads on balls. I question his OF instincts. With that said, it's early and the weather was pretty bad. The Twins looked equally as bad defensively.

I get your overall sentiment, but Paulino extended the game for Paulino. He had to pitch over just the one error, and that one error didn't force him to throw 45 balls to 65 strikes. The bullpen is going to be getting heavy work for all of his starts if he doesn't start finding the strike zone.

doublem23
04-03-2014, 07:18 PM
Yeah, I saw that, too. Seriously, can someone at that website open a damn window. It is 37 degrees with a cold rain falling all day. Who wants to sit through that?

Personally, I think the posters at Deadspin (and one was a "personality" from WGN radio)

If you read the Deadspin article, you'd notice they mentioned it was a day game, in the middle of the week, and it was a terrible weather day out in the first line.

soltrain21
04-03-2014, 07:18 PM
Agreed



Me and other Sox fans often get bashed as "Flubsessed." Yet today, the Cubbies win their first game of the season, what are Cubbie fans talking about? Sox attendance. From Jordan Bernfield (http://deadspin.com/white-sox-games-are-eerily-empty-1557725119) to BleedCubbieBlue (http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2014/4/3/5578936/cubs-pirates-junior-lake-jersey-mlb-scores).

How would you describe the interest that Cubbie fans have about Sox attendance/popularity issues? Delusions of grandeur? Insecurities?

Nothing gives Cubbie fans a chubby like Sox "attendance issues."


There isn't a single thing in that article about Sox attendance.

shingo10
04-03-2014, 07:26 PM
Yes, and the starting pitching will be worse than last season.

We have two top-notch pitchers in Sale and Quintana, and then the rest of the pitching staff is, shall we say, not good. The pitching is going to be the worst it's been in many years.

I certainly don't want to open this can of worms again but I do think it might be a little premature to call Quintana a top-notch pitcher and make him our number 2...

He has had an AWFUL spring and first game. Hopefully he snaps out of it soon but there's the possibility that he might never be more than a Gavin Floyd type who you just can't count on.

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soltrain21 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3116210#post3116210)
There isn't a single thing in that article about Sox attendance.

I don't know how to link to particular comments on their board or to whole sections but Al Yellon and others had plenty to say if you'd looked just a little beyond the article.

FWIW White Sox just offered all ticketholders for today’s game a free ticket for any other April game — even if you showed up and used today’s ticket. - by Al Yellon (http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/authors/al-yellon) on Apr 3, 2014 | 3:16 PM (http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2014/4/3/5578936/cubs-pirates-junior-lake-jersey-mlb-scores#224879327)

There is a whole section of comments about Sox attendance around the point where Yellon posted this.

soltrain21
04-03-2014, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soltrain21 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3116210#post3116210)
There isn't a single thing in that article about Sox attendance.

I don't know how to link to particular comments on their board or to whole sections but Al Yellon and others had plenty to say if you'd looked just a little beyond the article.



There is a whole section of comments about Sox attendance around the point where Yellon posted this.


It's a comment section on a blog. Who the hell cares? Why are you scouring Cub blog's comment sections? Of course you'll find people bad mouthing Sox attendance if you are trying to find people doing it.

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 07:57 PM
It's a comment section on a blog. Who the hell cares? Why are you scouring Cub blog's comment sections? Of course you'll find people bad mouthing Sox attendance if you are trying to find people doing it.

Here you go again. I shouldn't have responded to you in the first place.

doublem23
04-03-2014, 08:10 PM
Here you go again. I shouldn't have responded to you in the first place.

Just out of curiosity, if Cub fans are Soxsessed because you found some guys making derogatory comments about the Sox on a blog, what does that make Sox fans since the majority of your posts are in some way attacking the Cubs?

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 08:20 PM
Just out of curiosity, if Cub fans are Soxsessed because you found some guys making derogatory comments about the Sox on a blog, what does that make Sox fans since the majority of your posts are in some way attacking the Cubs?

I made a comment, supported it with examples.

I'm more upset over the Sox loss and playing today like they did last season.

Have fun with it though.

BainesHOF
04-03-2014, 09:10 PM
I certainly don't want to open this can of worms again but I do think it might be a little premature to call Quintana a top-notch pitcher and make him our number 2...

He has had an AWFUL spring and first game. Hopefully he snaps out of it soon but there's the possibility that he might never be more than a Gavin Floyd type who you just can't count on.

You can think whatever you want, but Hahn just gave Quintana 26.5 million. And what do you mean you hope he snaps out of it soon? He pitched just fine today. Spring training doesn't mean jack. Quintana was top-notch in 2013. That's why Hahn gave him a big contract.

TDog
04-03-2014, 09:21 PM
Yes, I was thinking that Garcia would be a better than average outfielder but he is struggling out there....maybe the wind has been new for him, since he has never been here in the spring?

Flowers not blocking the third strike on Escobar was huge, and then compounded by the botched pickoff rundown. Jose was rolling, and then as always when he gets guys on base, he struggled to maintain his command.

The wild pitch hitting the back of the plate on the strike out was a freak thing that was probably a tougher play than the wild pitch that Suzuki missed to end yesterday's game. The rundown was clearly botched. There wouldn't have been a chance for Abreu to obstruct the runner if it had been executed properly. But that is only one out because you're dealing with the same runner. As a spectator, it's easy to say that Garcia either should have caught the line drive, which was not a routine play, or played it as a run-scoring single. Quintana extended the inning himself by walking hitters and should bear some of the responsibility for the three unearned runs.

The problem with the pitching today wasn't a lack of defensive support. Eaton made a game-saving catch and probably believes he should have made a seond one in the same spot against the same hitter.

It's probably true that the game today was 10-9 because the homeplate umpire had an inconsistent strike zone. Quintana seemed to believe he was out of the inning before he gave up the three unearned runs, and on the Twins broadcast, Bert Blyleven was complaining about the calls going against the Twins. (Kind of funny the way they show the K-Zone only when it's a call against the Twins.) But the bottom line is that walks killed the Sox today as much as big hits given up in hitters' counts and 3-2 pitches.

Throw more strikes.

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 09:21 PM
You can think whatever you want, but Hahn just gave Quintana 26.5 million. And what do you mean you hope he snaps out of it soon? He pitched just fine today. Spring training doesn't mean jack. Quintana was top-notch in 2013. That's why Hahn gave him a big contract.

Tough for me to blame Quintana today. Lousy defense, lousy bullpen.

Railsplitter
04-03-2014, 09:53 PM
It'll take a couple weeks to see what might be taking shape. The Twins won today because they were marginally less lousy than the Sox.

DrCrawdad
04-03-2014, 10:12 PM
The wild pitch hitting the back of the plate on the strike out was a freak thing that was probably a tougher play than the wild pitch that Suzuki missed to end yesterday's game. The rundown was clearly botched. There wouldn't have been a chance for Abreu to obstruct the runner if it had been executed properly. But that is only one out because you're dealing with the same runner. As a spectator, it's easy to say that Garcia either should have caught the line drive, which was not a routine play, or played it as a run-scoring single. Quintana extended the inning himself by walking hitters and should bear some of the responsibility for the three unearned runs.

The problem with the pitching today wasn't a lack of defensive support. Eaton made a game-saving catch and probably believes he should have made a seond one in the same spot against the same hitter.

It's probably true that the game today was 10-9 because the homeplate umpire had an inconsistent strike zone. Quintana seemed to believe he was out of the inning before he gave up the three unearned runs, and on the Twins broadcast, Bert Blyleven was complaining about the calls going against the Twins. (Kind of funny the way they show the K-Zone only when it's a call against the Twins.) But the bottom line is that walks killed the Sox today as much as big hits given up in hitters' counts and 3-2 pitches.

Throw more strikes.

Good points. Maybe it's just my imagination (running away with me) but the Sox this whole series seemed to put runners on in advance of Mauer coming to bat.

Brian26
04-03-2014, 10:19 PM
If you read the Deadspin article, you'd notice they mentioned it was a day game, in the middle of the week, and it was a terrible weather day out in the first line.

I'm not sure how this is even an issue with anyone in the media (this comment pointed at Jordan Bernfield of WGN). This is the only week of the season the Sox have three weekday games scheduled, the weather is brutal, and 37,000+ people took off work/school on Monday to go to the opener. Hell, I may have gone to two games this week if there was a night game scheduled, but I would imagine it is difficult for most people to attend two day games in the same week, let alone when the temperature is 35 degrees. I bet Wrigley would have been just as empty today. It's a non-issue.

LoveYourSuit
04-03-2014, 10:29 PM
Glad to have won a very poorly played series, but still have to point out how alarming the piss poor play and mental errors have been.

It's almost as if Spring Training didn't take place. It's back to the same stupid ball from the last two seasons with Robin and even going back to Ozzie's last years.


With a young team now, there is a chance to teach here. I really hope someone takes initiative here with getting these guys to practice our dreadful rundown play. Every year it's perhaps the worst in the game. Always one/two throws too many. Always having the guy running to the lead base to make the tag. Always failing to cut/shorten the baseline. It's beyond awful. I hold my breathe every damn time :angry:


The guy I'm most disappointed with so far (spring + 3 games in) is Avisail Garcia. This guy better be a lock to hit for a high average (.300+) because he has no plate discipline whatsoever. Setting his walk total at 30 for the year. So that power better come quick or else we might be looking at another Viciedo here. And this observation goes back to last year. Not enough power for me yet to justify a pedestrian OBP. Also, his plus glove we have been hearing about? Show me. His routes are brutal so far. This going back to last season. Yes, there is a ton of make-up speed there to make plays but don't expect a kid that size to be able to sustain that. I really hope someone on this coaching staff can help him out there.

LoveYourSuit
04-03-2014, 10:36 PM
I'm not sure how this is even an issue with anyone in the media (this comment pointed at Jordan Bernfield of WGN). This is the only week of the season the Sox have three weekday games scheduled, the weather is brutal, and 37,000+ people took off work/school on Monday to go to the opener. Hell, I may have gone to two games this week if there was a night game scheduled, but I would imagine it is difficult for most people to attend two day games in the same week, let alone when the temperature is 35 degrees. I bet Wrigley would have been just as empty today. It's a non-issue.


I think the media is also forgetting this team lost 99 games last year.

The Sox have a lot of convincing to do before they start averaging 20K+ per night once again.


This is no surprise to anyone, including the front office. There is a reason they dropped back to 20th in payroll.

TaylorStSox
04-03-2014, 11:50 PM
I'm getting the impression a lot of people didn't actually watch the game and just looked at the box score. Garcia's OF blunder won't show up as an error, but led to 3 runs. The defense was pretty atrocious for both teams this series.

TDog
04-04-2014, 12:21 AM
I'm getting the impression a lot of people didn't actually watch the game and just looked at the box score. Garcia's OF blunder won't show up as an error, but led to 3 runs. The defense was pretty atrocious for both teams this series.

And maybe the Abreu triple probably should have been caught by the Twins centerielder. Bert Blyleven, the Twins analyst, seemed to think he turned the wrong way after running to where he thought the ball was hit, failing to take the wind into consideration, something he won't do after gaining more experience. If you give up hard hit drives after loading the bases on walks, you really can't complain that fielders didn't make plays that go beyond the routine.

With the weather this week (one can only imagine how bad the weather would have been if the games were played at night), I'm not going to get too worked up about the bad defense.

gobears1987
04-04-2014, 12:57 AM
Yes the hitting has been good the 1st 3 games, but I would like to see the Sox hit other teams that don't suck before I'm fully convinced. It is encouraging though.

Boondock Saint
04-04-2014, 01:58 AM
Yes the hitting has been good the 1st 3 games, but I would like to see the Sox hit other teams that don't suck before I'm fully convinced. It is encouraging though.

It's not just that they're hitting, it's how they're doing it. You're not seeing many 10 pitch 1-2-3 innings because guys are swinging for the fences and popping out like idiots. They're hitting singles and going from first to third.

JB98
04-04-2014, 02:06 AM
I'm getting the impression a lot of people didn't actually watch the game and just looked at the box score. Garcia's OF blunder won't show up as an error, but led to 3 runs. The defense was pretty atrocious for both teams this series.

Indeed it was. Defense remains the Sox' biggest weakness, IMO. Quintana actually threw the ball very well. The only criticism I have of him is that maybe he lost concentration after the botched rundown. Essentially, Quintana got Escobar out twice, yet Escobar was standing in scoring position because of horrendous defense. That has to be frustrating for a pitcher.

Even still, he's out of the inning unscathed if Garcia makes a play that should have been made.

The bullpen needs to start throwing strikes. Five runs off relievers today, three of them were walks. I don't care about the solo home run off Belisario. That doesn't hurt nearly as much as giving the opposition free baserunners.

kufram
04-04-2014, 04:22 AM
That shot to Garcia was not a routine fly ball on a midsummer day. A more experienced mlb outfielder may well have taken the ball on one hop ready to throw home to cut losses. Garcia may have learned something there, and I'm not going to critisize the mindset. If blame is really required at this point there is plenty to go around, for sure. I imagine a number of people played it better and managed it better on their computers.

doublem23
04-04-2014, 05:41 AM
I'm not sure how this is even an issue with anyone in the media (this comment pointed at Jordan Bernfield of WGN). This is the only week of the season the Sox have three weekday games scheduled, the weather is brutal, and 37,000+ people took off work/school on Monday to go to the opener. Hell, I may have gone to two games this week if there was a night game scheduled, but I would imagine it is difficult for most people to attend two day games in the same week, let alone when the temperature is 35 degrees. I bet Wrigley would have been just as empty today. It's a non-issue.

The good news is it looks like the weather might cooperate with the Sox for the first time in seemingly forever. They're on the road for the next week which looks like it's going to be mostly cold and damp and just overall crappy. They're back on Thursday which looks like it could have temps in the high 60s.

guillensdisciple
04-04-2014, 06:04 AM
The good news is it looks like the weather might cooperate with the Sox for the first time in seemingly forever. They're on the road for the next week which looks like it's going to be mostly cold and damp and just overall crappy. They're back on Thursday which looks like it could have temps in the high 60s.

That's good, but I'm happy that some of these games will begin at 7 or later next week. I hate afternoon starts. Zero chance I can watch a game when that's the case. I'm happy we don't do early starts regularly.

TomBradley72
04-04-2014, 07:08 AM
My $0.02-


These are probably the most interesting games 2 & 3 I can remember in a long time- sloppy April baseball- but entertaining.
Abreu has become a real force only 3 games into his MLB career
I really like Semian's overall make up- even with his slow start- good defense, liked his discipline in drawing the walk to tie it up- great home run in the 8th- I heard he won 2 MVPs in 2 different leagues last year (?)- I think he's a keeper.
Flowers with 4 hits in a game? Like his approach- going the other way- his defense still sucks- but a version of Flowers that can hit .250 with his power could at least bring us to "average" at catcher.
Bullpen will be an adventure this year without much help available from AAA or AA- so it goes as we rebuild
Both Ramirez and Viciedo seem "re-energized"- Viciedo with heads up baserunning to get all the way to 3rd on the bloop that fell in -
For folks around back in 1977- this game reminded me of a Sox game at Yankee Stadium- high scoring, see saw game, with Matt Lindstrom playing the role of Randy Wiles blowing it in the end-
Avisail Garcia not looking good 3 games in- no discipline at the plate and poor jumps/routes on defense- hopefully just a kid a little amped up for his first full season.
Overall- a very exciting and interesting young team, thin on experience and pitching- but a dramatic improvement from 2013- we'll see how they look against higher quality competition this weekend.

doublem23
04-04-2014, 08:16 AM
Semien won the Southern League MVP last season, but I don't know of any other major award he won:

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130904&content_id=59524826&fext=.jsp&vkey=pr_l111&sid=l111

Part of me wishes he was hitting a little lower in the order to take some of the pressure off, but on the other hand, he's going to see a lot of pitches to hit in front of Abreu. He's not the first guy in the world to have a rough 3-game stretch. Hopefully he pulls out of it.

DrCrawdad
04-04-2014, 09:12 AM
I think the media is also forgetting this team lost 99 games last year.

The Sox have a lot of convincing to do before they start averaging 20K+ per night once again.

This is no surprise to anyone, including the front office. There is a reason they dropped back to 20th in payroll.

The media and Cubbie fans (often a bit of both) love to bash the Sox about attendance/popularity, they don't care the reason. They don't care if the Cubbies attendance/popularity has waned.


I'm getting the impression a lot of people didn't actually watch the game and just looked at the box score. Garcia's OF blunder won't show up as an error, but led to 3 runs. The defense was pretty atrocious for both teams this series.

And maybe the Abreu triple probably should have been caught by the Twins centerielder. Bert Blyleven, the Twins analyst, seemed to think he turned the wrong way after running to where he thought the ball was hit, failing to take the wind into consideration, something he won't do after gaining more experience. If you give up hard hit drives after loading the bases on walks, you really can't complain that fielders didn't make plays that go beyond the routine.

With the weather this week (one can only imagine how bad the weather would have been if the games were played at night), I'm not going to get too worked up about the bad defense.

That shot to Garcia was not a routine fly ball on a midsummer day. A more experienced mlb outfielder may well have taken the ball on one hop ready to throw home to cut losses. Garcia may have learned something there, and I'm not going to critisize the mindset. If blame is really required at this point there is plenty to go around, for sure. I imagine a number of people played it better and managed it better on their computers.

The Abreu triple would have been caught by Tori Hunter (back in the day) but that was a very difficult play, especially with the wind/weather. Garcia's fundamental mistake was an all or nothing approach, when the nothing means the ball rolling to the wall.

kittle42
04-04-2014, 09:37 AM
Semien won the Southern League MVP last season, but I don't know of any other major award he won:

FRA-GI-LE. Must be Italian.

cards press box
04-04-2014, 09:48 AM
If you read the Deadspin article, you'd notice they mentioned it was a day game, in the middle of the week, and it was a terrible weather day out in the first line.

Yes, but the title of the Deadspin piece was "White Sox Game Eerily Empty." (http://deadspin.com/white-sox-games-are-eerily-empty-1557725119) And WGN's Jordan Bernfield gave us this enlightening tweet: a photo of a nearly empty ballpark with the caption "Good Seats Available."

No, they didn't use the word "attendance." But the point of the Deadspin piece, all the same, was a shot at the Sox attendance, perhaps in this case a shot at the fact that the Sox probably have less season ticket holders in 2014 than they did in 2013.

But you know what cures all? Putting the team on the right track and winning some games. I think that the Sox are doing just that.

And I still think that Jordan Bernfield and the rest of the pro-Cub media needed to open a damn window yesterday.

There isn't a single thing in that article about Sox attendance.

See above.

kufram
04-04-2014, 09:56 AM
The media and Cubbie fans (often a bit of both) love to bash the Sox about attendance/popularity, they don't care the reason. They don't care if the Cubbies attendance/popularity has waned.








The Abreu triple would have been caught by Tori Hunter (back in the day) but that was a very difficult play, especially with the wind/weather. Garcia's fundamental mistake was an all or nothing approach, when the nothing means the ball rolling to the wall.


A lot of great catches are born out of the all or nothing approach and I'm not going to judge him from my armchair and after replays for trying to make a possible game saving play. You can't want new, young players and expect them to be Tori Hunter on his best day during the 3rd game of the season on a cold day in April in right field.

Chez
04-04-2014, 10:05 AM
On the radio broadcast, Farmer and DJ speculated that Garcia may have lost the ball in the lights.

TaylorStSox
04-04-2014, 10:47 AM
A lot of great catches are born out of the all or nothing approach and I'm not going to judge him from my armchair and after replays for trying to make a possible game saving play. You can't want new, young players and expect them to be Tori Hunter on his best day during the 3rd game of the season on a cold day in April in right field.

He wouldn't have had to dive if he wouldn't have broken the wrong way when the ball was hit. His reads are lol bad.

TDog
04-04-2014, 11:10 AM
A lot of great catches are born out of the all or nothing approach and I'm not going to judge him from my armchair and after replays for trying to make a possible game saving play. You can't want new, young players and expect them to be Tori Hunter on his best day during the 3rd game of the season on a cold day in April in right field.

By the same token, you can't judge an outfielder on one play made on a cold, windy day in April, even if the Twins announcer expected Hicks to be Hunter. Apparently it was dark enough in the afternoon that the lights were on.

I don't think Quintana pitched poorly in the game, but he did walk a couple of hitters in the inning and gave up a solidly hit line drive that wasn't a routine play. It wasn't why the game was lost. The fact is, the infield played some pretty good defense this week, except for an error by the other Garcia on his first play of the season and the rundown. Both Gillaspie and Semien had a good series at third. Ramirez had a good series at short. Eaton made a great catch in center.

Everything is magnified at the start of the season. In April 2007, there was a thread suggesting the Sox bullpen might be the best in team's history. By May, fans believed it was one of the worst in baseball. I'm not going to label Garcia a bad fielder based on a cold afternoon in April.

What frustrated me more than the defense in the one-run loss was the walks given up by Quintana and the bullpen and not scoring two runners who go to third with one out.

#1swisher
04-04-2014, 11:49 AM
Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin)

De Aza first player in White Sox history to hit three homers in team's first three games per White Sox notes today

hawkjt
04-04-2014, 12:22 PM
The whole pitching staff needs to throw strikes more consistently, it seems.

Quintana had good stuff, but he is such a rhythm pitcher, almost to a fault, when he gets out of his groove, he can struggle.

I think he is still overly dependent on the hitch in his full delivery,which is a great device to fool batters and get in a good arm slot, but when men get on, he simply cannot seem to stay in that same good groove.

Hopefully he irons that out.

The bullpen performance early has reminded me of the Bears run defense last year....it is a bit demoralizing when you cannot throw strikes or give up 8 yards on first down. :redface:

soxnut1018
04-04-2014, 12:29 PM
Yes, but the title of the Deadspin piece was "White Sox Game Eerily Empty." (http://deadspin.com/white-sox-games-are-eerily-empty-1557725119) And WGN's Jordan Bernfield gave us this enlightening tweet: a photo of a nearly empty ballpark with the caption "Good Seats Available."

No, they didn't use the word "attendance." But the point of the Deadspin piece, all the same, was a shot at the Sox attendance, perhaps in this case a shot at the fact that the Sox probably have less season ticket holders in 2014 than they did in 2013.

No, it wasn't. The point of the Deadspin article was to point out how weird it was to see a baseball game with less than 1,000 people in attendance. If you think that Deadspin has some sort of anti-Sox agenda and they are trying to take a shot, you are reading way to much into it.

kufram
04-04-2014, 01:15 PM
He wouldn't have had to dive if he wouldn't have broken the wrong way when the ball was hit. His reads are lol bad.


I disagree in that instance.

JB98
04-04-2014, 01:34 PM
On the radio broadcast, Farmer and DJ speculated that Garcia may have lost the ball in the lights.

I thought that was a possibility as well. He was in position to make the catch and just whiffed on it. Did anyone in the media ask him after the game? Not that I'm aware of...

Foulke You
04-04-2014, 01:35 PM
And maybe the Abreu triple probably should have been caught by the Twins centerielder. Bert Blyleven, the Twins analyst, seemed to think he turned the wrong way after running to where he thought the ball was hit, failing to take the wind into consideration, something he won't do after gaining more experience. If you give up hard hit drives after loading the bases on walks, you really can't complain that fielders didn't make plays that go beyond the routine.

With the weather this week (one can only imagine how bad the weather would have been if the games were played at night), I'm not going to get too worked up about the bad defense.
Good points. Also, we have a lot of players that haven't played a ton of games at US Cellular Field yet. Darrin Jackson has often said it was the toughest ballpark to play OF because of the crazy wind patterns. I expect improvement from Garcia with more games logged at 35th & Shields.

kittle42
04-04-2014, 01:48 PM
Darrin Jackson has often said it was the toughest ballpark to play OF because of the crazy wind patterns.

Yes, but did he ever pitch there?