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View Full Version : Konerko Starting on Opening Day?


domerdoc11
03-25-2014, 07:26 PM
So apparently there is a very real chance of Paulie starting on Opening Day. I'm not sure how the rest of you feel, but I think that would be a classy move by the organization. I'll take the risk that we finish one game out of the playoffs this year to give our captain his final Opening Day start. Thoughts?

HomeFish
03-25-2014, 07:34 PM
Perhaps he will steal a base like he did on Opening Day 2004.

amsteel
03-25-2014, 07:37 PM
At DH, sure.

Noneck
03-25-2014, 07:39 PM
Sure why not, It will may be the largest crowd of the season and for sure the largest contingent of Sox fans. This is like senior day for him.

waldo_the_wolf
03-25-2014, 07:48 PM
Absolutely.

TheVulture
03-25-2014, 07:52 PM
If they're up against a lefty, Dunn better be on the bench, that's all I know. No excuse for batting him against any with this roster.

anewman35
03-25-2014, 08:46 PM
If they're up against a lefty, Dunn better be on the bench, that's all I know. No excuse for batting him against any with this roster.

It's going to be RHP Ricky Nolasco.

But, yes, start Konerko, just make sure to start Jose Abreu too. I don't even care which of them plays where.

doublem23
03-25-2014, 09:14 PM
Maybe they can release him afterward...

TomBradley72
03-25-2014, 09:51 PM
I hope they do- he deserves it- sit Dunns ass down-

JB98
03-26-2014, 12:21 AM
I hope they do- he deserves it- sit Dunns ass down-

Agreed.

Golden Sox
03-26-2014, 07:12 AM
They shouldn't have to sit Dunn down on Opening Day. There's still time to either release hem or trade him by Opening Day. The dynamics of the team would change overnight if Dunn is not on the team. You could have a rotating DH with Konerko, Viciedo, DeAza and Abreau. If the Cubs can move Zambrano, Bradley and Soriano the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I'm hoping that Hahn will do the right thing and get Dunn off this team by Opening Day.

TomBradley72
03-26-2014, 08:54 AM
They shouldn't have to sit Dunn down on Opening Day. There's still time to either release hem or trade him by Opening Day. The dynamics of the team would change overnight if Dunn is not on the team. You could have a rotating DH with Konerko, Viciedo, DeAza and Abreau. If the Cubs can move Zambrano, Bradley and Soriano the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I'm hoping that Hahn will do the right thing and get Dunn off this team by Opening Day.

I am with you 100%-

Jerko
03-26-2014, 12:23 PM
I say start him. It's not like he's replacing Miguel Cabrera. Yank him in the later innings if we need a strik........er pinch hitter.

kufram
03-26-2014, 01:23 PM
There is no fan quite so fickle.. I don't care how many outs PK cost us last year. It's opening day and he is on the team. Start him at first base. Everything else is irrelevant. I guess maybe he hasn't done enough for this team in some people's eyes.

harwar
03-26-2014, 01:30 PM
You absolutely start Konerko on opening day of his final year .. it's going to be a long year, with sellouts being few and far between .. i wouldn't be surprised to see "Paulie" get a standing ovation when he comes to bat the first time..

doublem23
03-26-2014, 01:34 PM
They shouldn't have to sit Dunn down on Opening Day. There's still time to either release hem or trade him by Opening Day. The dynamics of the team would change overnight if Dunn is not on the team. You could have a rotating DH with Konerko, Viciedo, DeAza and Abreau. If the Cubs can move Zambrano, Bradley and Soriano the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I'm hoping that Hahn will do the right thing and get Dunn off this team by Opening Day.

I am with you 100%-

Just out of curiosity, you guys are aware Dunn was the best offensive player the Sox had last season, correct? I'm not going to shed a tear for him when his White Sox tenure inevitably ends one way or another this season, but from a pretty basic numbers perspective, without Dunn the Sox probably would have lost several more games last year, right?

TomBradley72
03-26-2014, 02:04 PM
Just out of curiosity, you guys are aware Dunn was the best offensive player the Sox had last season, correct? I'm not going to shed a tear for him when his White Sox tenure inevitably ends one way or another this season, but from a pretty basic numbers perspective, without Dunn the Sox probably would have lost several more games last year, right?

Yes- I'm aware- falls into the "tallest midget" category.

For this year's team- I think Dunn's salary is a sunk cost- the market for Dunn is very limited (American League contender, who needs a DH vs. right handers, and is willing to take on some of his salary or trade something of value to get him).

I'd rather have De Aza/PK/Abreu/Viciedo rotate as DH and use Dunn's spot to add Danks or L. Garcia to the roster- and eliminate all of those strike outs and a "station to station" guy when he's on the bases. I know it's completely subjective- but I just think the guy brings a loser mentality to the team chemistry- he doesn't work his ass off to get in shape in the offseason, he hit .159 last September and is hitting .200 with no home runs in spring training- he seems "defeated" to me.

Last year he hit .248 with RISP and hit .184 as DH (he won't get many ABs at a 1st baseman this year)- so I don't really think we lose much if we let him go-

WhiteSox5187
03-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Just out of curiosity, you guys are aware Dunn was the best offensive player the Sox had last season, correct? I'm not going to shed a tear for him when his White Sox tenure inevitably ends one way or another this season, but from a pretty basic numbers perspective, without Dunn the Sox probably would have lost several more games last year, right?

That's really a testament to how bad the Sox were last year. This might be a case where perception is not in line with reality but it seems like a lot of his home runs and his production was when the game was already out of hand.

doublem23
03-26-2014, 02:49 PM
That's really a testament to how bad the Sox were last year. This might be a case where perception is not in line with reality but it seems like a lot of his home runs and his production was when the game was already out of hand.

You're free to manipulate the numbers all you want, but at the end of the day, production is still production. Dunn was one of a very few hitters on the team that posted a positive oWAR last season and an above-average league OPS+. Had Dunn not been around last season, the Sox probably would have replaced him with some miserable combination of Jordan Danks, Dewayne Wise, Tyler Greene, Lars Anderson, etc. They certainly would have only added to the hole they dug as the least proficient offense in the AL.

TomBradley72
03-26-2014, 04:16 PM
You're free to manipulate the numbers all you want, but at the end of the day, production is still production. Dunn was one of a very few hitters on the team that posted a positive oWAR last season and an above-average league OPS+. Had Dunn not been around last season, the Sox probably would have replaced him with some miserable combination of Jordan Danks, Dewayne Wise, Tyler Greene, Lars Anderson, etc. They certainly would have only added to the hole they dug as the least proficient offense in the AL.

Can't argue with you as far as 2013 goes- but I don't see how that's relevant for 2014-

Dunn has been on the market since last June- it's very telling that 29 MLB teams have no interest in him at all- if the Sox outright release him- I'm not sure anyone picks him up- he's an aging, platoon DH, in decline, with a .197 aggregate batting average from 2011-2013.

Golden Sox
03-26-2014, 07:34 PM
This is 2014 with new hopes, new dreams AND new White Sox players. We have Garcia, Eaton and Abreau in our Opening day lineup this year. 3 years of Adam Dunn is enough. The team would be better off at DH with a rotating crew of Konerko, Viciedo and DeAza. All three of these guys are better than Dunn. I'm still hoping Dunn won't be with the White Sox on Opening Day 2014. The main objective in baseball is to win games. I think the White Sox have a better chance of winning games if Konerko, Viciedo and DeAza are the teams DH. I have seen enough of Dunn and his 197 batting average.

Noneck
03-26-2014, 07:54 PM
This is 2014 with new hopes, new dreams AND new White Sox players. We have Garcia, Eaton and Abreau in our Opening day lineup this year. 3 years of Adam Dunn is enough. The team would be better off at DH with a rotating crew of Konerko, Viciedo and DeAza. All three of these guys are better than Dunn. I'm still hoping Dunn won't be with the White Sox on Opening Day 2014.

You do realize dunn cleared waivers last year and no one claimed him? Suddenly now after telling the media he did the same thing this off season as he has done in all his previous off season and then proceeded to have a bad spring training, some team is willing to take him off the Sox hands? Please let it rest, the Sox will not salt and pepper his contact at this point and hes on the roster.

TDog
03-26-2014, 08:58 PM
You're free to manipulate the numbers all you want, but at the end of the day, production is still production. Dunn was one of a very few hitters on the team that posted a positive oWAR last season and an above-average league OPS+. Had Dunn not been around last season, the Sox probably would have replaced him with some miserable combination of Jordan Danks, Dewayne Wise, Tyler Greene, Lars Anderson, etc. They certainly would have only added to the hole they dug as the least proficient offense in the AL.

The fact that you can make a statistical argument to show that Adam Dunn helped the White Sox last year when it was apparent to anyone watching the team that he hurt the team (offensively as well as defensively) speaks to how meaningless, or at least deceptive, the statistics can be.

BainesHOF
03-26-2014, 09:03 PM
Leave it to Konerko to be more realistic than many here. He just said on the Score he expects to be on the bench on Opening Day.

The Sox are not the Cubs. It's not about being cute. Play every game to win, not to pander.

If you're in favor of junking the game plan already on Opening Day, let's go ahead and start Minnie Minoso in left. That would entertain the crowd, too.

ChiSoxGirl
03-26-2014, 10:15 PM
I hope they do- he deserves it- sit Dunns ass down-

Now this is an idea I can get used to! Dunn needs to become one with the bench.

You absolutely start Konerko on opening day of his final year .. it's going to be a long year, with sellouts being few and far between .. i wouldn't be surprised to see "Paulie" get a standing ovation when he comes to bat the first time..

I couldn't agree with either of you more. After everything Paulie has given and meant to this organization, the least he deserves is a place in the starting lineup on what will be his final Opening Day. This is Konerko's final go-around with the Sox; start it off right by putting him in the lineup on Monday.

Brian26
03-26-2014, 11:37 PM
Leave it to Konerko to be more realistic than many here. He just said on the Score he expects to be on the bench on Opening Day.

The Sox are not the Cubs. It's not about being cute. Play every game to win, not to pander.

If you're in favor of junking the game plan already on Opening Day, let's go ahead and start Minnie Minoso in left. That would entertain the crowd, too.

On the surface, this may seem strong, but really what is the difference between the standing ovation Konerko gets if he's penciled in at DH versus the standing ovation he gets as the last bench guy? Everybody is annoucned by Gene Honda on Opening Day and gets to go out and stand on the chalk and tip their cap (at least I remember that happening, but I could be wrong). Perhaps Konerko gets to pinch hit late in the game...he gets another ovation. I don't think it's a slight at Konerko not to start to get Dunn the ABs against the righty, at least early in the game. Don't get me wrong, as I don't care for Dunn at all, but I'm in favor of sticking with the plan for all 162 games.

DSpivack
03-26-2014, 11:44 PM
On the surface, this may seem strong, but really what is the difference between the standing ovation Konerko gets if he's penciled in at DH versus the standing ovation he gets as the last bench guy? Everybody is annoucned by Gene Honda on Opening Day and gets to go out and stand on the chalk and tip their cap (at least I remember that happening, but I could be wrong). Perhaps Konerko gets to pinch hit late in the game...he gets another ovation. I don't think it's a slight at Konerko not to start to get Dunn the ABs against the righty, at least early in the game. Don't get me wrong, as I don't care for Dunn at all, but I'm in favor of sticking with the plan for all 162 games.
I agree. He's lucky he was brought back at all; a testament to the sometimes loyal to a fault organization. That said, I think the best plan for DH this season is a L/R platoon between Dunn and Konerko, and I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the case. At 1B, I hope Abreu starts as many games as he can.

Brian26
03-26-2014, 11:47 PM
I agree. He's lucky he was brought back at all; a testament to the sometimes loyal to a fault organization. That said, I think the best plan for DH this season is a L/R platoon between Dunn and Konerko, and I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the case. At 1B, I hope Abreu starts as many games as he can.

Exactly. And...if you're going strictly by the numbers, the two-headed monster of PK and Dunn vs. LHP/RHP respectively in 2013 put up nice numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out if both guys stay healthy. It's all a moot point if Konerko's wrist goes south or Dunn becomes Greg Luzinski 1984, if he hasn't already.

KRS1
03-27-2014, 01:44 AM
Agreed.

Thirded.

TheVulture
03-27-2014, 02:05 AM
You're free to manipulate the numbers all you want, but at the end of the day, production is still production. Dunn was one of a very few hitters on the team that posted a positive oWAR last season and an above-average league OPS+. Had Dunn not been around last season, the Sox probably would have replaced him with some miserable combination of Jordan Danks, Dewayne Wise, Tyler Greene, Lars Anderson, etc. They certainly would have only added to the hole they dug as the least proficient offense in the AL.
If Dunn wasn't around, they would have had 15 million to spend on actual decent baseball players.

doublem23
03-27-2014, 05:39 AM
The fact that you can make a statistical argument to show that Adam Dunn helped the White Sox last year when it was apparent to anyone watching the team that he hurt the team (offensively as well as defensively) speaks to how meaningless, or at least deceptive, the statistics can be.

No surprise here to see you failing to either thoroughly read or bother to comprehend my post but if you did you'd note that I never made any mention of his defense because I agree he stinks in the field.

But the bottom line is that Dunn was still the most effective offensive player the Sox had all last season. This of course, speaks to how wretchedly terrible the Sox were as an offensive unit last season. You're free to go around pretending like it's not true, but it sadly is. Konerko was worse. Beckham was worse. Viciedo was worse. De Aza was worse. Alexei was worse. Flowers was worse. Keppinger was worse. The argument here isn't Adam Dunn vs. AL Average DH, the argument is Adam Dunn vs. the rest of the miserable stiffs in this organization, the Sox clearly had no other player last year of putting up even league average offensive production. I'm not suggesting they would have plummeted and made up the 12 games they had on Houston for worst record in the league, but take Dunn away from the team last year and they would have surely been worse. Numbers don't lie.

MarksBrokenFoot
03-27-2014, 06:29 AM
No surprise here to see you failing to either thoroughly read or bother to comprehend my post but if you did you'd note that I never made any mention of his defense because I agree he stinks in the field.

But the bottom line is that Dunn was still the most effective offensive player the Sox had all last season. This of course, speaks to how wretchedly terrible the Sox were as an offensive unit last season. You're free to go around pretending like it's not true, but it sadly is. Konerko was worse. Beckham was worse. Viciedo was worse. De Aza was worse. Alexei was worse. Flowers was worse. Keppinger was worse. The argument here isn't Adam Dunn vs. AL Average DH, the argument is Adam Dunn vs. the rest of the miserable stiffs in this organization, the Sox clearly had no other player last year of putting up even league average offensive production. I'm not suggesting they would have plummeted and made up the 12 games they had on Houston for worst record in the league, but take Dunn away from the team last year and they would have surely been worse. Numbers don't lie.

Alexei, Gordon, and De Aza were all better than Dunn last year if you go by oWar. Alexei is easily the best position player on the team. Otherwise, I agree with you, Dunn made that particular team better, but on a dollar per WAR basis, he's awful.

TDog
03-27-2014, 07:36 AM
No surprise here to see you failing to either thoroughly read or bother to comprehend my post but if you did you'd note that I never made any mention of his defense because I agree he stinks in the field.

But the bottom line is that Dunn was still the most effective offensive player the Sox had all last season. This of course, speaks to how wretchedly terrible the Sox were as an offensive unit last season. You're free to go around pretending like it's not true, but it sadly is. Konerko was worse. Beckham was worse. Viciedo was worse. De Aza was worse. Alexei was worse. Flowers was worse. Keppinger was worse. The argument here isn't Adam Dunn vs. AL Average DH, the argument is Adam Dunn vs. the rest of the miserable stiffs in this organization, the Sox clearly had no other player last year of putting up even league average offensive production. I'm not suggesting they would have plummeted and made up the 12 games they had on Houston for worst record in the league, but take Dunn away from the team last year and they would have surely been worse. Numbers don't lie.


Dunn was a supremely ineffective offensive player in 2013. Anyone paying attention to the White Sox could see that. Fans who watched the team know that a statistics-based argument to the contrary is meaningless because they know what they saw. Using numbers to argue that he was not ineffective, or even less ineffective than other players on the White Sox actually does show that numbers sometimes do lie.

Or at least it shows you are using the wrong numbers.

TomBradley72
03-27-2014, 07:49 AM
Leave it to Konerko to be more realistic than many here. He just said on the Score he expects to be on the bench on Opening Day.

The Sox are not the Cubs. It's not about being cute. Play every game to win, not to pander.

If you're in favor of junking the game plan already on Opening Day, let's go ahead and start Minnie Minoso in left. That would entertain the crowd, too.

Opening Day is in 4 days and we haven't named a closer and Tyler Flowers is our starting catcher- we're junking 2014- and I don't see how PK starting instead of the piece of crap Adam Dunn is being "cute" or pandering-

TomBradley72
03-27-2014, 07:52 AM
Exactly. And...if you're going strictly by the numbers, the two-headed monster of PK and Dunn vs. LHP/RHP respectively in 2013 put up nice numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out if both guys stay healthy. It's all a moot point if Konerko's wrist goes south or Dunn becomes Greg Luzinski 1984, if he hasn't already.

Luzinski 1984 would be an upgrade for Dunn

TomBradley72
03-27-2014, 07:54 AM
No surprise here to see you failing to either thoroughly read or bother to comprehend my post but if you did you'd note that I never made any mention of his defense because I agree he stinks in the field.

But the bottom line is that Dunn was still the most effective offensive player the Sox had all last season. This of course, speaks to how wretchedly terrible the Sox were as an offensive unit last season. You're free to go around pretending like it's not true, but it sadly is. Konerko was worse. Beckham was worse. Viciedo was worse. De Aza was worse. Alexei was worse. Flowers was worse. Keppinger was worse. The argument here isn't Adam Dunn vs. AL Average DH, the argument is Adam Dunn vs. the rest of the miserable stiffs in this organization, the Sox clearly had no other player last year of putting up even league average offensive production. I'm not suggesting they would have plummeted and made up the 12 games they had on Houston for worst record in the league, but take Dunn away from the team last year and they would have surely been worse. Numbers don't lie.

This thread is not about 2013- it's about 2014-

amsteel
03-27-2014, 08:18 AM
Sabermetricians vs others is gonna be my top 2014 WSI storyline.

doublem23
03-27-2014, 09:27 AM
Alexei, Gordon, and De Aza were all better than Dunn last year if you go by oWar. Alexei is easily the best position player on the team. Otherwise, I agree with you, Dunn made that particular team better, but on a dollar per WAR basis, he's awful.

Oh definitely, I'm not trying to say Dunn's not a sunk cost at this point, or that he's anywhere near what an AL team should be expecting offensively from its DH, I'm just saying, this idea that if the Sox had just released Dunn before the start of the 2013 season that they would have somehow been a better team is just not a mathematically defensible position. You wanna consult the oracles and break out the chicken bones, that's fine, you know, I can't argue with that. Dunn's 607 DH PAs would have been replaced by the collection of stiffs I mentioned earlier, which would have easily made a dent in the already paltry 598 runs the Sox produced last year.

doublem23
03-27-2014, 09:31 AM
If Dunn wasn't around, they would have had 15 million to spend on actual decent baseball players.

That's a whole different debate, of course the $15 M that Dunn is making could be spend much more wisely, I don't think anyone would argue that point, but there is a slew of posts in this thread that seem to suggest the Sox would have been better off last season just cutting Adam his paychecks and telling him to stay home. That's less true.

MISoxfan
03-27-2014, 10:59 AM
Dunn was a supremely ineffective offensive player in 2013. Anyone paying attention to the White Sox could see that. Fans who watched the team know that a statistics-based argument to the contrary is meaningless because they know what they saw. Using numbers to argue that he was not ineffective, or even less ineffective than other players on the White Sox actually does show that numbers sometimes do lie.

Or at least it shows you are using the wrong numbers.

This is practically the definition of confirmation bias. Adam Dunn was among the top 3 full-time bats the White Sox had. Considering he was a DH making 15 million and the top 3 bats the White Sox have aren't even league average this isn't a ringing endorsement.

Rios and Garcia were both better, but not on the team for the entire season. A case could be made for Viciedo and De Aza with a bit of cherry picking. Nobody else was even close.

TomBradley72
03-27-2014, 11:36 AM
This is practically the definition of confirmation bias. Adam Dunn was among the top 3 full-time bats the White Sox had. Considering he was a DH making 15 million and the top 3 bats the White Sox have aren't even league average this isn't a ringing endorsement.

Rios and Garcia were both better, but not on the team for the entire season. A case could be made for Viciedo and De Aza with a bit of cherry picking. Nobody else was even close.

Can we PLEASE stop analyzing 2013? Need to move on! :cool:

kittle42
03-27-2014, 01:02 PM
This is practically the definition of confirmation bias.

BUT BUT BUT I saw what I wanted to....oh, wait, I mean, I know what I saw!

JB98
03-27-2014, 01:45 PM
Opening Day is in 4 days and we haven't named a closer and Tyler Flowers is our starting catcher- we're junking 2014- and I don't see how PK starting instead of the piece of crap Adam Dunn is being "cute" or pandering-

Agreed. I won't like it if they start PK in place of Abreu, who should be playing 1B every day. But I fail to see the harm in sitting Dunn down to start Konerko on his last Opening Day. It isn't like Dunn is some sort of dynamic force who is essential to the lineup. Most everyone is counting the days until he's no longer wearing a Sox uniform.

#1swisher
03-30-2014, 12:06 PM
Chicago Sun-Times ‏@Suntimes (https://twitter.com/Suntimes) 7m (https://twitter.com/Suntimes/status/450301069726601217)

For the first time since 1998, Paul Konerko won't start on Opening Day for the White Sox. http://sun-tim.es/1f9TJdv (http://t.co/Ucw0yqnent)

Ventura
"it doesn't mean he can't come in and win the game later in the game."
http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/paul-konerko-wont-be-white-sox-opening-day-lineup

TDog
03-30-2014, 01:53 PM
BUT BUT BUT I saw what I wanted to....oh, wait, I mean, I know what I saw!

I didn't want to see Adam Dunn hit less than .200 in his career with the White Sox while striking out in more than a third of his at bats. But that's what I saw. If your batting average is less than .200 and you strike out in less than one -third of your at bats, you are hurting the team far more than you are helping it, unless you are a defensive wizard or a pretty good pitcher.

If you can find a stat that shows that a player is strong offensively while hitting less than .220 and striking out in numbers unprecedented among everyday hitters in the history of major league baseball, the bias, even prejudice is in finding the stat that tells you such a thing. If you watch a lot of baseball, you shouldn't need stats to tell you who looks good and who doesn't. Anyone who has watched the White Sox for the last three seasons, who isn't biased by a strained statistical interpretation of what they saw, can see Dunn has hurt the team offensively. Most everyone who follows the White Sox is counting the days until he is no longer in a Sox uniform.

That being said, Dunn has played in three White Sox openers and homered in two of them. Opening day is just one game, and, statistically, a small sample size.

palehosepub
03-30-2014, 02:38 PM
Its a damn shame PK isn't starting. Give the fans what they want and let PK have his final opening day.

Anyway you know he will come in as a PH and get a rousing ovation....

Boondock Saint
03-30-2014, 03:24 PM
Its a damn shame PK isn't starting. Give the fans what they want and let PK have his final opening day.

Anyway you know he will come in as a PH and get a rousing ovation....

From what I'm reading, it was just as much Paulie's decision as it was Robin's.

A. Cavatica
03-30-2014, 04:57 PM
If it were up to me, I'd start him, and after the game I'd cut him.

JB98
03-30-2014, 06:11 PM
If it were up to me, I'd start him, and after the game I'd cut him.

Good for you. That isn't happening. That isn't how you treat people. That would be complete bull**** if the Sox did that.

As if what they did to Fisk wasn't bad enough. People still haven't forgotten that, and it's been over 20 years.

And LOL at Tribune web headlines talking about how Konerko was "benched." Well, duh. He's a bench player now. Was Leury Garcia "benched" for Opening Day as well?

Boondock Saint
03-30-2014, 06:50 PM
Good for you. That isn't happening. That isn't how you treat people. That would be complete bull**** if the Sox did that.

As if what they did to Fisk wasn't bad enough. People still haven't forgotten that, and it's been over 20 years.

And LOL at Tribune web headlines talking about how Konerko was "benched." Well, duh. He's a bench player now. Was Leury Garcia "benched" for Opening Day as well?

Right? It'd be hilarious to see his baseball team try to sign free agents.

MISoxfan
03-30-2014, 08:04 PM
I didn't want to see Adam Dunn hit less than .200 in his career with the White Sox while striking out in more than a third of his at bats. But that's what I saw. If your batting average is less than .200 and you strike out in less than one -third of your at bats, you are hurting the team far more than you are helping it, unless you are a defensive wizard or a pretty good pitcher.

If you can find a stat that shows that a player is strong offensively while hitting less than .220 and striking out in numbers unprecedented among everyday hitters in the history of major league baseball, the bias, even prejudice is in finding the stat that tells you such a thing. If you watch a lot of baseball, you shouldn't need stats to tell you who looks good and who doesn't. Anyone who has watched the White Sox for the last three seasons, who isn't biased by a strained statistical interpretation of what they saw, can see Dunn has hurt the team offensively. Most everyone who follows the White Sox is counting the days until he is no longer in a Sox uniform.

That being said, Dunn has played in three White Sox openers and homered in two of them. Opening day is just one game, and, statistically, a small sample size.

Nobody has said that he was strong offensively last year. We were the worst offensive team in baseball because Adam Dunn was our best hitter. That's not the same as saying he was strong offensively.

TDog
03-30-2014, 08:47 PM
Nobody has said that he was strong offensively last year. We were the worst offensive team in baseball because Adam Dunn was our best hitter. That's not the same as saying he was strong offensively.

My point is that calling Dunn the best hitter last year is ridiculous and only possible if you have a bias toward the contrived statistics that do not reflect the how much he hurt the team offensively. If the numbers say he was the best offensive player on the team last year.

Boondock Saint
03-30-2014, 09:24 PM
My point is that calling Dunn the best hitter last year is ridiculous and only possible if you have a bias toward the contrived statistics that do not reflect the how much he hurt the team offensively. If the numbers say he was the best offensive player on the team last year.

In short, the stats must be wrong when they suggest that Adam Dunn was better than the rest of the dog**** on the team last year. Maybe it's your bias against Adam Dunn that needs to be reflected upon.

A. Cavatica
03-30-2014, 09:34 PM
Right? It'd be hilarious to see his baseball team try to sign free agents.

My team wouldn't have brought him back to begin with. Dude is very lucky to have a job after last year.

canOcorn
03-30-2014, 09:36 PM
In short, the stats must be wrong when they suggest that Adam Dunn was better than the rest of the dog**** on the team last year. Maybe it's your bias against Adam Dunn that needs to be reflected upon.

Nate Schierholtz wants his dad back.

Seriously, Dunn has been brutal, but TDogs crusade against Dunn is laughable.

TDog
03-31-2014, 05:11 AM
Nate Schierholtz wants his dad back.

Seriously, Dunn has been brutal, but TDogs crusade against Dunn is laughable.

Nate Schierholtz playng for the Cubs last year had a higher OPS than Adam Dunn had fir the White Sox. The offseason the Sox signed Dunn, I wrote that Schierholtz would be a better fit becuase they needed a right fielder, and Schierholtz plays a great right field with one of the best arms in the game. But I think other stats better gague a hitter's success or failure.

Dunn's stats don't show that he was the best hitter on the team last year. They show that he hit less than .220 and struck out in almost a third of his at bats.

I hope Dunn has a better season this year, but it's laughable to suggest that Dunn's stats showed he was the best hitter on the White Sox last year.

TomBradley72
03-31-2014, 09:00 AM
My team wouldn't have brought him back to begin with. Dude is very lucky to have a job after last year.

He hit over .300 vs. LHP's- he's a legitimate platoon DH based on his results last year- but keep trolling for responses to postings about releasing a guy who's #2 or #3 all time in most of the hitting stats and will probably have his number retired after this season.

It's a rebuilding year- and he's not stunting the development of anyone at AA or AAA-

TomBradley72
03-31-2014, 09:09 AM
In short, the stats must be wrong when they suggest that Adam Dunn was better than the rest of the dog**** on the team last year. Maybe it's your bias against Adam Dunn that needs to be reflected upon.

Dunn's 2014 suckage starts in a few hours- so the debate on who was the best hitter on a historically bad 2013 White Sox team can end!