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View Full Version : Heyman: Sox getting calls on De Aza, Viciedo


doublem23
03-06-2014, 10:05 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/white-sox-getting-calls-on-de-aza-viciedo.html

kittle42
03-06-2014, 10:28 AM
Good.

vinny
03-06-2014, 01:30 PM
If the Sox can move them it may make suffering this winter worth it.

KRS1
03-06-2014, 02:29 PM
I guess it's just me, but I hang onto both and know our depth is better for it. I don't see either losing value before the deadline, anyway, when the fetch for good first halves could bring in a potential coup. That and we get another look at them and how they fit their roles with the new squad.

cards press box
03-06-2014, 02:53 PM
I think it is more likely that the Sox deal DeAza than Viciedo but either could be dealt, I suppose.

I would expect the Sox to try and get a catcher in such a deal. The Yankees have the most surplus catching of any team but don't have a place for either guy. This could be another three-way deal, this time between the Sox, the Yankees and a third team that could use DeAza. Giants maybe? Pirates? Cubs? Mariners?

russ99
03-06-2014, 03:03 PM
I think it is more likely that the Sox deal DeAza than Viciedo but either could be dealt, I suppose.

I would expect the Sox to try and get a catcher in such a deal. The Yankees have the most surplus catching of any team but don't have a place for either guy. This could be another three-way deal, this time between the Sox, the Yankees and a third team that could use DeAza. Giants maybe? Pirates? Cubs? Mariners?

Viciedo would have a lot more value, IMO.

Depends on what the Sox want to accomplish with this trade, clear a spot or get the best return possible.

I mentioned that I'd like to see a Viciedo + for Gary Sanchez deal early this fall, but I just don't see a spot for Dayan on the Yankees after the Ellsbury signing.

Chez
03-06-2014, 03:04 PM
I think it is more likely that the Sox deal DeAza than Viciedo but either could be dealt, I suppose.

I would expect the Sox to try and get a catcher in such a deal. The Yankees have the most surplus catching of any team but don't have a place for either guy. This could be another three-way deal, this time between the Sox, the Yankees and a third team that could use DeAza. Giants maybe? Pirates? Cubs? Mariners?

Heyman's article suggests that with Dirks having back surgery, Detroit is the best fit for De Aza. De Aza to Detroit could really tighten up the race in the Central. Maybe the Tigers would also take Axelrod in the deal!

Noneck
03-06-2014, 04:01 PM
Maybe the Tigers would also take Axelrod in the deal!

The Tiger blew their chance for axelrod when he was non tendered. Seriously now, no worry about axelrod hes not on the 40 man and we dont have to worry about ever seeing him on the big club again.

cards press box
03-06-2014, 04:05 PM
Viciedo would have a lot more value, IMO.

Depends on what the Sox want to accomplish with this trade, clear a spot or get the best return possible.

I mentioned that I'd like to see a Viciedo + for Gary Sanchez deal early this fall, but I just don't see a spot for Dayan on the Yankees after the Ellsbury signing.

Yeah, I don't see a fit for Dayan Viciedo on the Yankees, either. What do you think of this possible three team deal: (1) Sox deal Viciedo to the Mariners for infielder Nick Franklin and (2) the Sox then deal Franklin and Jeff Keppinger to the New York Yankees for catchers Gary Sanchez and John Ryan Murphy.

And then the Sox could deal Tyler Flowers to the Mets for just about anything.

Thoughts?

Tragg
03-06-2014, 04:52 PM
We won't get a good major leaguer or a top prospect for either. I'm okay with prospects in the lower minors with high ceilings.

shingo10
03-06-2014, 06:24 PM
I think its way too early to give up on Viciedo yet...his left field is more than tolerable and he's got the potential to have the type of bat that can carry an offense (Tampa Bay series...early 2012)

De Aza is adequate at the plate, dumb on the basepaths, and shaky in the outfield. Also not a part of our future plans. If you're gonna move anyone to create roster space then make it him.

TomBradley72
03-06-2014, 09:52 PM
i think its way too early to give up on viciedo yet...his left field is more than tolerable and he's got the potential to have the type of bat that can carry an offense (tampa bay series...early 2012)

.

+1

cards press box
03-07-2014, 05:27 PM
Sounds as though the Twins might have some interest in DeAza.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/al-central-notes-masterson-de-aza-santana-tigers.html

SoxSpeed22
03-07-2014, 05:41 PM
That does make a good deal of sense for the Twins. He would be an upgrade and is very salary friendly. The twins have a lot to work with in their system.

ChicagoG19
03-07-2014, 05:56 PM
I think you hang on Viciedo. He has shown flashes of dominance at the plate and he is still very young. He and Abreu have the potential to become a very good 1-2 punch if they both develop well.

russ99
03-07-2014, 07:03 PM
I think its way too early to give up on Viciedo yet...his left field is more than tolerable and he's got the potential to have the type of bat that can carry an offense (Tampa Bay series...early 2012)

De Aza is adequate at the plate, dumb on the basepaths, and shaky in the outfield. Also not a part of our future plans. If you're gonna move anyone to create roster space then make it him.

DeAza can actually hit for average, can make things happen on the basepaths despite a few dumb mistakes, and not look foolish during most of his at bats, plus he's a moveable asset to other teams if we want to go down that road later on due to his at least league-average hitting for average, speed and a little pop,.

Not to mention that LF would be a better position for him fielding-wise.

Viciedo's trade value is never going to be higher barring a miracle by Todd Steverson to totally rework his plate approach and somehow have any plate patience and ability to hit the other way on inside pitches and not try to pull everything out of the park, Dunn style.

Tragg
03-07-2014, 10:06 PM
I think you hang on Viciedo. He has shown flashes of dominance at the plate and he is still very young. He and Abreu have the potential to become a very good 1-2 punch if they both develop well.

I agree. De Aza's average and that won't change.
Viciedo could be better.

That said, I wouldn't just give De Aza away. If no value is offered, just hang onto him. Nothing wrong with a DeAza/Viciedo platoon, until a better deal comes about - will give us some depth, too.

Vernam
03-07-2014, 11:07 PM
I think you hang on Viciedo. He has shown flashes of dominance at the plate and he is still very young. He and Abreu have the potential to become a very good 1-2 punch if they both develop well.

I just want to throw this out there for consideration: Viciedo has had fewer flashes of dominance than Beckham has had, albeit more recently because he joined the club later. Regardless, I think the likelihood that either will show more than an extremely occasional flash of dominance is infinitesimal.

HarryChappas
03-08-2014, 09:50 AM
I guess my Brett Gardner idea is out the window with that crazy 4 year extension they gave him. 12 mill through 19. Must be nice.

Mohoney
03-08-2014, 12:47 PM
Viciedo would have a lot more value, IMO.

Viciedo certainly has more value to the White Sox, but based on what each guy has accomplished at the major league level, the argument could be made that De Aza actually has more trade value than Viciedo. De Aza has a tangible skill that can be leveraged; he has shown the ability to lead off. We already acquired our leadoff man of the future in Adam Eaton, so De Aza's primary attribute means less to us than it does to other teams.

Vestigio
03-09-2014, 11:50 AM
Twins have interest in De Aza (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/03/09/sunball/HPMQ0x9Hj3a2stEaZIgyZI/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw)

His name is mentioned a little past half way down

XplodingScorbord
03-09-2014, 12:13 PM
Mariners, Sox have discussed Viciedo. (http://dlvr.it/561MwR)

mark1529
03-09-2014, 12:32 PM
Heyman's article suggests that with Dirks having back surgery, Detroit is the best fit for De Aza. De Aza to Detroit could really tighten up the race in the Central. Maybe the Tigers would also take Axelrod in the deal!


now that s funny i don t care who ya are :bandance:

CoopaLoop
03-09-2014, 05:04 PM
I think you hang on Viciedo. He has shown flashes of dominance at the plate and he is still very young. He and Abreu have the potential to become a very good 1-2 punch if they both develop well.

I can't believe I have missed every single flash of dominance at the plate Viciedo has shown. All I have ever seen him do is hit mistakes a long way.

Fastball23
03-09-2014, 06:16 PM
I heard a report that the Sox are talking about shipping Viciedo to Seattle for Michael Saunders.

EMachine10
03-09-2014, 07:51 PM
I heard a report that the Sox are talking about shipping Viciedo to Seattle for Michael Saunders.
I'm not too sure what that would accomplish. First, why trade an OF from our "surplus" to acquire another OF? 2nd, production-wise, I'd rather try to extract more from Viciedo, who is younger than Saunders. He's nothing special.

shingo10
03-09-2014, 09:40 PM
I can't believe I have missed every single flash of dominance at the plate Viciedo has shown. All I have ever seen him do is hit mistakes a long way.


http://tablet.sportingnews.com/2012-06-07/mlb-cutting-edge-dayan-viciedo.html

I believe it is the 6th paragraph that talks about his hot streak in May of '12. Was impressive.

Tragg
03-09-2014, 10:07 PM
Just looking at stats, Saunders is older, has a .295 career OBP. The only thing he does better is walk more.
I realize the chances of Viciedo blossoming are small - but there is still is a chance. Wouldn't dump him for replaceable mediocrity.

Fastball23
03-09-2014, 10:33 PM
Saunders plays a solid defense and he is also a left handed bat. I do hope that we get a lot more for Tank

TheVulture
03-13-2014, 08:12 PM
Viciedo certainly has more value to the White Sox, but based on what each guy has accomplished at the major league level, the argument could be made that De Aza actually has more trade value than Viciedo.

I don't see how Viciedo has more value to the Sox or to anybody for that matter. De Aza is a better player in every facet of the game. Better hitter, fielder and baserunner, even when you take his gaffes into consideration. Plus, a left-handed hitter on a team devoid of left-handing hitting. All else equal, I'd take DeAza every day of the week over Viciedo, I don't get where this notion of Viciedo having value comes from honestly. Sure, he might figure it out sooner or later, but until he does he doesn't have much value to anyone.

Tragg
03-13-2014, 08:21 PM
I don't see how Viciedo has more value to the Sox or to anybody for that matter. De Aza is a better player in every facet of the game. Better hitter, fielder and baserunner, even when you take his gaffes into consideration. Plus, a left-handed hitter on a team devoid of left-handing hitting. All else equal, I'd take DeAza every day of the week over Viciedo, I don't get where this notion of Viciedo having value comes from honestly. Sure, he might figure it out sooner or later, but until he does he doesn't have much value to anyone.

Because he has upside. WE know what De Aza's upside is and it's pretty average. I'd look to deal De Aza first; it's easier to determine his value and should be able to fashion some win/win trade.

TheVulture
03-14-2014, 03:11 PM
Because he has upside. WE know what De Aza's upside is and it's pretty average. I'd look to deal De Aza first; it's easier to determine his value and should be able to fashion some win/win trade.
I guess the question is whether an actual average player has more value than a poor player with supposed upside.

Mohoney
03-14-2014, 06:24 PM
I guess the question is whether an actual average player has more value than a poor player with supposed upside.

There are more factors at play, though. The poor player with supposed upside is a full five years younger, he makes $1.5 million less, and he still has three more arbitration years before he can become a free agent. The average player's primary source of value has become redundant with the acquisition of Adam Eaton, and he only has one more arbitration year before he can become a free agent.

For a team expected to compete in 2014 and needs a capable, if unspectacular, leadoff hitter, De Aza is more valuable. For a team looking to gain more from a developmental standpoint than from a wins and losses standpoint in 2014, Viciedo is more valuable.

TheVulture
03-14-2014, 06:57 PM
For a team expected to compete in 2014 and needs a capable, if unspectacular, leadoff hitter, De Aza is more valuable. For a team looking to gain more from a developmental standpoint than from a wins and losses standpoint in 2014, Viciedo is more valuable.

I don't see the developmental value. He's a one dimensional player who is no good at the one dimension. Unless you are looking for a hack left fielder, Viciedo is useless. DeAza has actual value, any team could use him. Viciedo has no value on defense, on the bases, or at the plate. He has purported potential value as a homerun hitter, and that's it. Major league rosters aren't generally built on unfulfilled, hypothetical value. And yes, we have Eaton, but again, he is unproven and could easily flop, and who's the number two hitter anyway? I don't see one, other than DeAza. Let's look at it in the context of the Sox? Who is playing left? Either V or D...I think I'll go with the one who is the better hitter, defender and baserunner. Eaton doesn't make DeAza redundant, unless you have another quality OFer I'm unaware of to play left. Last I checked Eaton is slated for CF.

The difference in salary is almost a non-issue, considering the Sox are operating well below their budget and neither are signed past this season

Mohoney
03-14-2014, 07:02 PM
Major league rosters aren't generally built on unfulfilled, hypothetical value.

For rebuilding teams, unfulfilled, hypothetical value usually shows up in several places up and down the roster.

Tragg
03-14-2014, 09:33 PM
There are more factors at play, though. The poor player with supposed upside is a full five years younger, he makes $1.5 million less, and he still has three more arbitration years before he can become a free agent. The average player's primary source of value has become redundant with the acquisition of Adam Eaton, and he only has one more arbitration year before he can become a free agent.

For a team expected to compete in 2014 and needs a capable, if unspectacular, leadoff hitter, De Aza is more valuable. For a team looking to gain more from a developmental standpoint than from a wins and losses standpoint in 2014, Viciedo is more valuable.

Agree. Thus, trade De Aza, keep Viciedo.

soxfanreggie
03-14-2014, 11:34 PM
Right now, I'll take whoever we would get the best return for.

TheVulture
03-15-2014, 04:24 AM
For rebuilding teams, unfulfilled, hypothetical value usually shows up in several places up and down the roster.
Ok, true. Either way, I see them both ultimately as placeholders. In that case, Viciedo's arbitration could become a liability rather an advantage (provided he still has enough value you'd rather not just cut him). DeAza has more value as a player right now, might as well go with that if he's just filling the spot for the time being anyway. DeAza at least would make a solid fourth OFer. Viciedo is worthless if he's not a starter. Personally, I'd just platoon them as it stands now, straight up L/R. Really, when you factor in the inexperience of Eaton and Garcia, it's probably best to just hang on to them both for now unless Hahn is picking up another OFer. I wouldn't mind Danks as the fourth OFer if the OF were a little more solidified, but if someone has to step in and start 120+ games in CF, I'd rather it be DeAza with Danks in reserve.