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Gargamelle
08-07-2002, 08:46 PM
Hi guys, I'm new to the forum. Been lurking for a while..

I was wondering why there's so much hate for Comiskey? I moved to the Chicago area in Janurary (previously lived in Des Moines), and I think it's a great park.

I've been to five other MLB parks (Metrodome, Miller Park, Veteran's Stadium in Philly, Edison Field, and the BOB in AZ) and I like Comiskey the best, and am glad to be able to attend several Sox games this year and for years to come (no matter how bad the Sox may play!).

Now, since I've never experienced OLD Comiskey, I'm not able to compare the two. I think it's a terrific place to watch a ball game.

*There's no poofy roof (Metrodome)
*No ugly retractable roof thing-a-ma-bob (Miller)
*No stupid phoney-looking boulders in the outfield (Edison)
*No SWIMMING POOLS and oodles of ads (the BOB)
* It's kept up well (unlike the Vet).
*And I haven't heard 'Who Let the Dogs Out' ONCE since I've been going to Comiskey (Unlike the Metrodome. For some reason, they still feel the need to play this song..it's what, 3 years old now??)

Comiskey's just a great ballpark experience...good food (mmm...Best's Koshers!).

So why so much hate??

FanOf14
08-07-2002, 08:57 PM
I have no problem with the New Comiskey. I've had seats all over and have enjoyed each seat.

One question, if you have upper deck seats, can you go up to the furthest seat up and over or will the frains stop you? I am supposed to go this weekend and have always wondered what the park looks like from that spot and if the game sets out of hand, it'll give me something to do. :)

kevingrt
08-07-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I have no problem with the New Comiskey. I've had seats all over and have enjoyed each seat.

One question, if you have upper deck seats, can you go up to the furthest seat up and over or will the frains stop you? I am supposed to go this weekend and have always wondered what the park looks like from that spot and if the game sets out of hand, it'll give me something to do. :)


When is it going to lose the name "New" it isn't New it's like 12 years old

Daver
08-07-2002, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Gargamelle


So why so much hate??

Welcome aboard,and I happen to agree with you on Comiskey.

My nine year old son makes me miss about half the game everytime we go there so he can go to the "Training Ground" as he calls it,by gate three,

Daver
08-07-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt



When is it going to lose the name "New" it isn't New it's like 12 years old

It should have never been named Comiskey Park in the first place,but I digress......

WinningUgly!
08-07-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Gargamelle
*And I haven't heard 'Who Let the Dogs Out' ONCE since I've been going to Comiskey (Unlike the Metrodome. For some reason, they still feel the need to play this song..it's what, 3 years old now??)


That's Minnesota for ya...They are just now getting "Who Let the Dogs Out" there...

Other new things in MN...
The Dukes of Hazzard
Farrah Fawcett posters
8-tracks
microwave ovens
Ghostbusters(I)
coming soon...indoor plumbing & dental work.

RedPinStripes
08-07-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


That's Minnesota for ya...They are just now getting "Who Let the Dogs Out" there...

Other new things in MN...
The Dukes of Hazzard
Farrah Fawcett posters
8-tracks
microwave ovens
Ghostbusters(I)
coming soon...indoor plumbing & dental work.

Love the sig! LOL!

The lower deck in comiskey is the best i've seen. I'm not crazy about the YankMee stadium look though. I can do without the uper deck. OLD COMISKEY RULES!

Soxboyrob
08-07-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14

One question, if you have upper deck seats, can you go up to the furthest seat up and over or will the frains stop you? I am supposed to go this weekend and have always wondered what the park looks like from that spot and if the game sets out of hand, it'll give me something to do. :)

From up there, the park looks, um, small. The Frains will let you go up there if there are other tickets sold in that section. Sometimes a whole section is unsold and they'll shoo you out so that they don't have to clean that section later that night. As a general rule, if the lower rows are sold, you're free to go to the upper rows or the back row. Bring oxygen. Actually, it's not a bad view from up there, but I have a hard time actually following the ball off the bat from that far away, unless I'm right behind home plate.

LongDistanceFan
08-07-2002, 09:44 PM
welcome. however, have you been to the upper deck?

Gargamelle
08-07-2002, 09:55 PM
No, I can't say I've ever sat in the upper deck. It does look quite steep. I'm going to have to try it out for kicks next time I go :cool:

Daver
08-07-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Gargamelle
No, I can't say I've ever sat in the upper deck. It does look quite steep. I'm going to have to try it out for kicks next time I go :cool:

The upper deck at Comiskey is no different than the Upper deck at Jacobs Feild or Camden Yards.Get over it.

LongDistanceFan
08-07-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Gargamelle
No, I can't say I've ever sat in the upper deck. It does look quite steep. I'm going to have to try it out for kicks next time I go

when the park was new, i dislocated my shoulder up there, from a fall, what a klutz :D:

RedPinStripes
08-07-2002, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by daver


The upper deck at Comiskey is no different than the Upper deck at Jacobs Feild or Camden Yards.Get over it.

The "new upper deck designs blow period.

LongDistanceFan
08-07-2002, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by daver


Get over it.

never being at jacobs or at camden, i would not know what i am getting over.

34rancher
08-08-2002, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


never being at jacobs or at camden, i would not know what i am getting over.
What you are getting over is perception. Chicago has been spoiled by "flat" sport stadiums. Comisky is not even one of the 10 steepest upper decks in baseball. In my Humble opinion the only mistakes made with Comisky are (and in this order):

1. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BRICK (name any "Great" ballpark, and you will see what I mean)
2. It should have been rotated 45 degrees couterclockwise (Can you imagine the skyline in the background of the outfield?
3. It should be where Meigs Field is now, a la Pac Bell.

The uppper deck at the United Center is way steeper than Comisky.
Just wait until next year this time. When Soldier Field is done, people will wish that it was only as Steep as Comisky.

LongDistanceFan
08-08-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by 34rancher


2. It should have been rotated 45 degrees couterclockwise (Can you imagine the skyline in the background of the outfield?
3. It should be where Meigs Field is now, a la Pac Bell.

The uppper deck at the United Center is way steeper than Comisky.


very good point on # 2 and 3. i still think it would've been better around navy peir.

ref the united......... no shiiittttt, that beast is steep.

but i sat in the upper deck several times watching the sox and man it sucks.

nut_stock
08-08-2002, 12:29 AM
I would have liked the Meigs Field Location. Navy Pier is not South side, Meigs Field kinda sorta is.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-08-2002, 12:45 AM
Enough with complaining about the upper deck! There is nothing wrong with it! I have been to Jacobs Field and it is no different there. As much as I loved the "Old" Comiskey, at least there is little to no obstruction seating at the "New" one. I can tell you that I don't miss the posts that used to be in front of my seat! The only thing I would change is the seat colors, to green of course. Other than that, we have a damn good park.

longshot7
08-08-2002, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Other new things in MN...
The Dukes of Hazzard
Farrah Fawcett posters
8-tracks
microwave ovens
Ghostbusters(I)
coming soon...indoor plumbing & dental work.


mmmmm..... Farrah Fawcett.

(insert drooling here)

doublem23
08-08-2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by 34rancher

3. It should be where Meigs Field is now, a la Pac Bell.

Damn, that'd be a small ballpark. :smile:

LongDistanceFan
08-08-2002, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Enough with complaining about the upper deck! There is nothing wrong with it! I have been to Jacobs Field and it is no different there. As much as I loved the "Old" Comiskey, at least there is little to no obstruction seating at the "New" one. I can tell you that I don't miss the posts that used to be in front of my seat! The only thing I would change is the seat colors, to green of course. Other than that, we have a damn good park.

i never said anything about the park, but in a lot fans opinion besides myself, the upper deck seating is rough to take.

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-08-2002, 01:36 AM
I love comiskey too, maybe it's because i'm only 14 and I wasn't old enough to remember the times i went to old comiskey park, but i've been going to [not so]new comiskey park since I can remember. I've only been to a few parks, metrodome(worst of them all), new and old miller park and wrigley. I'd rank the stadiums in order from best to worst, Comiskey, New Miller park, old park where the brewers played, wrigley, and the metrodome. I don't really sit anywhere else other than the main lvl at comiskey, but the upperdeck imho is ok if you're sitting behind home plate.

Viva Magglio
08-08-2002, 07:45 AM
The Yankee Stadium UD is as steep as Comiskey's.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2002, 08:36 AM
FWIW, the upper deck seats behind homeplate at Old Comiskey were probably the best seats in the house. You had a far better angle on all the action than anybody seated in the lower bowl, and if you didn't have a post in front of you, the view was perfect.

New Comiskey has seats that are nearly as perfect--the Diamond Suites. You're seated a bit further back from the edge of the playing field, but not enough to affect the view.

So instead of getting $15 for a handful of UD seats each game at Old Comiskey, Reinsdorf now rakes in several thousand per Diamond Suite. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

...not that the added revenue will ever find its way towards fielding a champion team, of course.

:reinsy
"We're still perfecting the 'first-class organization' business model. But first the players union must be made to cave in. Then everything will be perfect. Trust me."

:ohno
"Twenty-one years of this bull."

No-Neck
08-08-2002, 09:00 AM
:smile:

Actually the first 5 rows in the upper deck from 1st-3rd base are very good seats (especially sections 529-531) if you want to really watch the game and keep score.

You can see everything clearly and they are not that far away from home plate. Also there are very few interruptions from people seated nearby. And the concessions are real close, you don't have to miss a 1/2 of inning to get a hot-dog. It's probably the best kept secret in Chicago for hard-core baseball fans.

These seats are even better on Fireworks night.

TornLabrum
08-08-2002, 09:19 AM
I've never sat down the lines in the upper deck, but I've sat anywhere from row 1 to row 28 between first and third base and liked every seat there. You get a view of the entire field from up there and a great sense of the defensive set-up, etc.

There is one major problem with the upper deck, and that is where they put the entrances. They should have been put in the middle, like everywhere else. It was just plain stupid to make people walk up 29 rows to the top seats. That's just a heart attack waiting to happen.

:reinsy

"The original plan was to have Shirpa guides for the fans in the upper rows, but not enough people came to the games, so we had to give up on that. So once again, it's all your fault."

34rancher
08-08-2002, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
The Yankee Stadium UD is as steep as Comiskey's.

See, we did build a "retro" park then. :D:

Also, just wait 5 years unitl Comisky is parked across the street from "yuppieville". Have you seen the destruction of "Robert Taylor"? I have a freind in city planning, and he told me that Daley is madder than a hornet that all of the city people go to the burbs for "Oak Brook" and "Woodfield". He told me that they are planning a huge shopping mall over there. Just a little FYI.

TornLabrum
08-08-2002, 09:30 AM
:gallas

"Let's name it the Robert Taylor Homes Mall! People will come from all over the country to see it!"

34rancher
08-08-2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
:gallas

"Let's name it the Robert Taylor Homes Mall! People will come from all over the country to see it!"

How about the Robert "Trailer" Homes? It could be the world's largerst mobile park. That way a tornado would come through and destroy the uppper deck, and everyone would be happy.

baggio202
08-08-2002, 10:34 AM
had a friend on the MLB board who just came back from a trip to LA...combined price for parking and an upper deck ticket to a dodger game , 12 bucks.....angels game, 14 bucks

he also said the upper deck in both parks arnt any less steep then comiskey..and in anaheim its even farther back from the field...

nut_stock
08-08-2002, 10:52 AM
I don't think Comiskey is a bad park, but its being put down by the "Wrigley experience"...whatever that is.

LongDistanceFan
08-08-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by No-Neck
:smile:

if you want to really watch the game and keep score.



does anybody still do that. wow, i remember have a great time in the ud in the old park with my brothers and i was keeping the stats. flash back . sorry but good times for me and why i am a fan today.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2002, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock
I don't think Comiskey is a bad park, but its being put down by the "Wrigley experience"...whatever that is.

The Wrigley Experience.


Barely-edible food cooked in third world kitchen facilities, restrooms to make you wretch with the smell of urine, dead ivy from over-worked and backed up sewage pipes, public drunkeness, peeing in public, and women dressed in bikini tops that don't mind being pawed by sloven pigs who piss in the sinks.

I can see the attraction.

:harry&jimmy
"Jimmy, if I can sell that piss hole to America, I can sell ANYTHING!"

LongDistanceFan
08-08-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
had a friend on the MLB board who just came back from a trip to LA...combined price for parking and an upper deck ticket to a dodger game , 12 bucks.....angels game, 14 bucks

he also said the upper deck in both parks arnt any less steep then comiskey..and in anaheim its even farther back from the field...

but with the price, it makes it worth it for those people and prob for some family people here. take your kids and neighbor kids for a nice night out.

soxrme
08-08-2002, 11:40 AM
The lower deck is great. I do not miss the posts in the old park either. I would put the bullpens in center and put seats where it is now. Left field bleachers are the best place to watch baseball.

The upper deck is horrible, that second tier of skyboxes threw off the hole thing, and they are usually empty anyway, what a waste.

Wrigley is a DUMP, as we all know.

Iwritecode
08-08-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

The Wrigley Experience.


Barely-edible food cooked in third world kitchen facilities, restrooms to make you wretch with the smell of urine, dead ivy from over-worked and backed up sewage pipes, public drunkeness, peeing in public, and women dressed in bikini tops that don't mind being pawed by sloven pigs who piss in the sinks.

I can see the attraction.

You forget the guys that only go to be seen on TV while talking their cell phone and the fact that you always know when Shammy steps to the plate cause that's the only time the crowd pays attention. Then the inevitable roar when he hits any ball into the air...

whitesoxwilkes
08-08-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


does anybody still do that. wow, i remember have a great time in the ud in the old park with my brothers and i was keeping the stats. flash back . sorry but good times for me and why i am a fan today.

i still do. started when i was 14 and have done it at EVERY game i have been to since (this includes times when i have sat in the bleachers at the Urinal and everyone looked at me like i was nuts),...i have scorecards from game 7 of the 1993 world series, wood's 20 K game (i know he's a flub but it was still cool to see), buerhle's one hitter in TPA, cameron's 4 HR game this year...and i'll teach my kids and grandkids to do it too.

voodoochile
08-08-2002, 03:28 PM
I like to sit in the upper deck. You can sit right behind home. You get a great view of the field. The seats are cheaper and if you don't like them, you can always go for the "Comiskey upgrade". UDR are normally between the batting circles about half way up and are the cheapest seat in the house. Even higher up isn't that bad, but once you get down the lines, the perspective can be weird. I've seen foul popups in the stands that I thought were shots in the gap when the first left the bat. But, with attendance low and dropping, sitting directly behind home is almost never a problem...

LongDistanceFan
08-08-2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes


i still do. started when i was 14 and have done it at EVERY game i have been to since (this includes times when i have sat in the bleachers at the Urinal and everyone looked at me like i was nuts),...i have scorecards from game 7 of the 1993 world series, wood's 20 K game (i know he's a flub but it was still cool to see), buerhle's one hitter in TPA, cameron's 4 HR game this year...and i'll teach my kids and grandkids to do it too.


Excellent :gulp:

Fisk72
08-08-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by soxrme
The lower deck is great. I do not miss the posts in the old park either. I would put the bullpens in center and put seats where it is now. Left field bleachers are the best place to watch baseball.

The upper deck is horrible, that second tier of skyboxes threw off the hole thing, and they are usually empty anyway, what a waste.

Wrigley is a DUMP, as we all know.


Right on about the second tier of skyboxes throwing everything off. I think that's where the majority of the problem lies. Steepness...well, every park is gonna be steep in the ud; however, our's starts way too high up. One level of skyboxes are good enough. I mean, look at all that depressing cement behind home plate (between ld and ud). I can never see myself watching from a skybox anyway- I might as well save my money and watch it on my own couch from home. I think they should have continued the ud in the oufield like the old comiskey, though. That'll be one thing that will suck come the hr derby next summer. I guess all in all, Comiskey is a decent ballpark. Philip Bess' design, though, makes me cry 'cause it's pretty damn good.

MarkEdward
08-08-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


does anybody still do that. wow, i remember have a great time in the ud in the old park with my brothers and i was keeping the stats. flash back . sorry but good times for me and why i am a fan today.


I do. I'm looking for a scorebook because I use the 1$ score sheets Comiskey gives out. This is another reason I love baseball. I guess you can keep score in basketball, but I never tried for hockey and football.

TornLabrum
08-08-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward



I do. I'm looking for a scorebook because I use the 1$ score sheets Comiskey gives out. This is another reason I love baseball. I guess you can keep score in basketball, but I never tried for hockey and football.

I get my scorebook here in Joliet at JJ Sport on Essington Road.

:KW

"Can't tell the players without a scorecard? Hell, you couldn't tell the players I pick up with radar!"

whitesoxwilkes
08-08-2002, 06:58 PM
I got mine at Sports Authority, best $3.99 I ever spent. I usually use the $1 scorecards though and save the book for when I'm running late and don;t have time to buy a card (or I'm going to a minor league game)


:burly

"Stinkin Wilkes guy still spells my last name wrong ever time he writes it down on his scorecard."

Huisj
08-08-2002, 10:37 PM
yeah, i've been to comiskey a few times now, and i still have found nothing wrong with it. i sat in the upper deck right in the front row along the third base line at a game in early april, and it was perfect. it was really a nice angle to watch from. and last year, i sat way way up in the very last section down the left field line inthe upper deck, and still i could see fine. sure it's a little steep, but otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the whole field, because the seats in front of you would block the view. and other places are the same, i've been to camden yards, and it was like that. and heck, here in lansing area, i've gone to some michigan state basketball games at the breslin center, and the upper level in there feels even steeper than comiskey, but it never gets bad press. i mean that deck feels like if you lean forward you'll end up falling onto the court (which looks like the size of a gameboy screen from up there). but like i said, no one ever complains about that place.

but like i said, i like comiskey park.

maybe if we talk about it enough on here, it'll wear off on chicago media, just like how other stuff we've mentioned has suspiciously (or even not so suspiciously) appeared in newspaper stuff or on the radio.

wait, who am i fooling, as long as mariotti and north are along, forget it.

speaking of north, did you hear him the other day? supposedly he thought that the University of Texas at El Paso was in Waco. what a dumbo, sure he claims to be a sox fan, but geez.

FarmerAndy
08-09-2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
I got mine at Sports Authority, best $3.99 I ever spent. I usually use the $1 scorecards though and save the book for when I'm running late and don;t have time to buy a card (or I'm going to a minor league game)


:burly

"Stinkin Wilkes guy still spells my last name wrong ever time he writes it down on his scorecard."

You can also pick 'em up at K-Mart and places like that. I always use the scorebook. The scorecards at the park are a pain in the arse. The books are more detailed. I guess it all depends on how big of a geek you are about it. I'm a pretty big geek about it. I keep track of balls and strikes and stuff.

The problem with the scorecards and the books is that there aren't enough spaces for pitchers. These days, managers go to the bullpen so much that you run out of spaces to put pitchers, it's even worse if you're scoring a National League game.

I also recomend having a little earphone AM radio with you to listen to the play-by-play while you watch. It really helps.

pudge
08-09-2002, 11:06 AM
Just to add to the thread, I live in Seattle and the Safeco upper desk is fairly steep too... I think Comiskey was just the first of the new parks, which now have upper decks that put the fans more on top of the field, instead of flat decks that put the fans miles and miles away. After going to Safeco a few times, then returning to Comiskey, the upper deck did not feel steep at all. I love Comiskey's wide concourse, and the exploding scoreboard is still a cool attraction. I agree with rotating the park so the city could be in view, can't figure out why they didn't do that. I also wish it had a little more character, maybe some unusal dimensions or something, but overall, it gets a bum rap beause of Wrigley, which sucks IMHO.

Cheryl
08-09-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by pudge
Just to add to the thread, I live in Seattle and the Safeco upper desk is fairly steep too... I think Comiskey was just the first of the new parks, which now have upper decks that put the fans more on top of the field, instead of flat decks that put the fans miles and miles away.

The UD at Comiskey is farther from the field than most of the newer parks because they didn't want to obstruct views downstairs with columns. However, the big mistake upstairs was ramp placement. If the ramps opened to the middle rather than the bottom of the deck, it wouldn't seem so steep or so far to the top rows.

nlentz88
08-09-2002, 11:46 AM
Ya know, Gargamelle, I've often asked myself the same question, "Why is everyone so anti-Comiskey?" I love this ballpark! Here's a couple reasons I think Comiskey is a great park:

1) The Food. Good Lord! The variety and quality of the food at Comiskey is hands down the best of any sports arena in Chicago. As long as you have access to the main concourse, you can find nearly anything you want at Comiskey, with the possible exception of an Indian buffet.

2) The Booze. I'm so glad the Sox aren't sponsored by Budweiser. Also, I enjoy the vendors with the tanks of margaritas on their backs.

3) The Parking. Parking at Comiskey is one of the best thigns about the place! You'll never have to get ripped off by some dude who lets you park in his front yard. And the tailgating scene is excellent.

4) The Scoreboard and Signs. Yeah, Comiskey does have its fair share of advertisements, but at least you have several scorebaords to watch. No matter where you are sitting you can always see one of the scoreboards as well as updates for that day's other MLB games. And I LOVE the jumbo-tron! Last season I was at a game in September that was delayed by rain. What did the Sox do to keep their fans from abandoning the park? The put the Bears game on the TVs and Jumbo-Tron!

5) The Fireworks. Whether its a couple of boomers to help celebrate a south side home run, or the finale of a Saturday Fireworks Night, the fireworks at Comiskey help bring a sense of magic and energy to the place.

6) THE BULLPEN BAR! I love that place. I sitting on a picnic bench only fifteen feet from Mags. I do wish they would return to the policy they had two seasons ago, but as long as you show up early it is a blast!

OK, so those are just a couple of the reasons I think Comiskey is a great park. So why does Comiskey get such a bad rap? A lot of people complain about the steepness of the upper deck. Come on, who sits in the upper deck unless its opening day or the Sox-Cubs series? Anyway, its really not that bad. I like the steepness because I don't feel like I'm being crowded up the people in front of me. My only complaint about the upper deck is the limited food and beverage selections on the upper deck concourse.

But it can't be the upper deck alone that is giving Comiskey the bad reputation. Some people cite the neighborhood as one detriment. OK, so it's not Wrigleyville. There aren't three dozen bars with a two block radius of Comiskey. Yes there isn't as much police presence. But I'm glad it's not like Wrigleyville! Do you think the Wrigleyville residents would allow fireworks? And do you think they'd give up their valuable realestate for ample parking lots? Of course not. I love Bridgeport and the neighborhood around Comiskey. I'm afraid that if Comiskey were in a neighborhood similar to that of Wrigley, then the ballpark would be filled with drunk, racist, preppies more interested in the cell phone conversations and suntans than the game on the field.

My answer to why Comiskey has gotten such a bad reputation? The media. Yes, the media. We all know about Mark Giangreco's famous shots of the empty blue seats of Comiskey. I might expect this from WGN, but it's every network! ABC, CBS, NBC, and even Fox always seem to put a negative spin on Comiskey and the Sox organization. Actually, I think that the WGN sportscasters are the least biased! But in general, the majority of Chicagoans have a negative disposition towards Comiskey. I think some of this is a result of the fanbase. Let's face it folks, the vat majority of those in Chicago who spend money on baseball are white, middle-class yuppies. SOmetimes I think these people are afraid to even drive in the South Side much less go to a ballgame there.

There is one element I would change about Comiskey that I think would help bring more fans to the ballpark. I know it would be impossible, but I would like to be able to turn the whole stadium ninety degrees counter clockwise. This way the Chicago skyline would be visible past the outfield. I think that this would help unite visitors to Comiskey Park with the rest of Chicago. Suddenly sitting in the upper deck would be a joy as you watch the red sun set glimmering off the skyscrapers that one by one turn on their lights as evening approaches. I really don't know why they chose to orientate the park the way it is. It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, that's my story and I'm stiking to it.

whitesoxwilkes
08-09-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy


I also recomend having a little earphone AM radio with you to listen to the play-by-play while you watch. It really helps.

If I go to a game alone, I always bring one along. If I'm with someone, I leave it home for fear they might think I'm ignoring them. (although sometimes I wish I could)

FarmerAndy
08-09-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes


If I go to a game alone, I always bring one along. If I'm with someone, I leave it home for fear they might think I'm ignoring them. (although sometimes I wish I could)

I always say to people who go to games with me: "If you want to talk to me, there's a little time between each half inning, do it then." Unless, of course, I'm on a date.

LongDistanceFan
08-09-2002, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by nlentz88
.

i know you are a person of few words, but that was a good post. :gulp: :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
08-09-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by nlentz88

There is one element I would change about Comiskey that I think would help bring more fans to the ballpark. I know it would be impossible, but I would like to be able to turn the whole stadium ninety degrees counter clockwise. This way the Chicago skyline would be visible past the outfield. I think that this would help unite visitors to Comiskey Park with the rest of Chicago. Suddenly sitting in the upper deck would be a joy as you watch the red sun set glimmering off the skyscrapers that one by one turn on their lights as evening approaches. I really don't know why they chose to orientate the park the way it is. It doesn't make sense to me.

Nice post, 88. And welcome to WSI.

I agree with almost everything you say about Comiskey and the unfair negative image it has gotten.

In answer to your question about the site and orientation of Comiskey Park II, there were three overriding factors.

1. The city and state needed the ballpark to be directly across the street from the old ballpark to save on the infrastructure improvements (water, sewage, electrical, etc.) necessary to build CPII. For most improvements, routing the existing lines with a left turn instead of a right turn was all that was required. They did nearly the same trick building the United Center practically across the street from the old Chicago Stadium.

2. CPII was not designed to fit the Chicago street grid. (The original design was to be placed in the middle of a giant parking lot at the corner of Lake & Swift Road in suburban Addison). Thus CPII had to be wedged into the existing site. (This is why Shields Avenue now terminates at 35th Street). One building they could not tear down was the retirement home along Wentworth Avenue. The orientation the city planners chose required the fewest modifications to the original ballpark design. For example, the pedestrian ramps north of 35th Street required the added expense of a three-deck pedestrian bridge over the street.

3. For sentimental reasons, locating homeplate in the northwest corner of the site allowed CPII to remain at the historic ballpark's 80 y.o. street address: 35th and Shields. At the time, there was a lot of political posturing over holding onto the team's roots on the South Side and that specific address.

In retrospect, these are all pretty lame reasons for not having an outfield that opens towards the city skyline and Lake Michigan. Today's ballparks are little more than picture postcards for the local chamber of commerce. Chicago has (arguably) the most famous skyline in the world. Would it have been so bad to locate CPII at 37th and Shields and capitalize on the city's signature invention to the world of architecture, the skyscraper? Obviously not.

Anyway, those are the reasons I'm aware of for CPII facing the southeast, rather than the preferred northeast.

LongDistanceFan
08-09-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge




phg, i didn't know all of that. where did you get all that from.

can we say that they have no vision what so ever. what a bunch of morons.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-09-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


phg, i didn't know all of that. where did you get all that from.

can we say that they have no vision what so ever. what a bunch of morons.

I read books. :D:

But seriously folks...

The best source for information about the building of CPII is Rich Lindberg's book Stealing First in a Two Team Town. Another is John Helyar's Lords of the Realm. You can find either of these at the library (shameless plug for Cheryl).
:gulp:

One of the reasons the Sox aren't in Addison: racism. Lindberg's interview with Reinsdorf makes this very clear. Racism also played a role in scuttling Philip Bess's urban ballpark plans to build on the site of Armour Square Park, just north of Old Comiskey. A detailed account of the political workings on this subject are discussed in Charles Euchner's Playing the Field.

You can learn a lot by not wasting time listening, watching, and reading the morons on radio, TV, and the newspapers.

:ass :giangreco :morrisey
"Us for example!"

Cheryl
08-09-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
CPII was not designed to fit the Chicago street grid. (The original design was to be placed in the middle of a giant parking lot at the corner of Lake & Swift Road in suburban Addison). Thus CPII had to be wedged into the existing site. (This is why Shields Avenue now terminates at 35th Street).

Which is one reason it looks so odd. It wouldn't be out of place at all in Addison, but it's somewhat disconcerting on 35th St. Another prime example of this in Chicago is the White Castle Building (not it's real name) across the street directly south of the Sears Tower. It sticks out like a sore thumb on our skyline because it was designed to be built in Houston. There's an architectural concept called 'urban civility'--the idea is to design to complement what is around the site. Neither CPII nor the White Castle has any civility.



One building they could not tear down was the retirement home along Wentworth Avenue.

Of course the old folks who live there get the best seats for the fireworks shows now, as they're shot off right next to an old folks home. What a great idea.

LongDistanceFan
08-09-2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


I read books. :D:

But seriously folks...

The best source for information about the building of CPII is Rich Lindberg's book Stealing First in a Two Team Town. Another is John Helyar's Lords of the Realm. You can find either of these at the library (shameless plug for Cheryl).
:gulp:

One of the reasons the Sox aren't in Addison: racism. Lindberg's interview with Reinsdorf makes this very clear. Racism also played a role in scuttling Philip Bess's urban ballpark plans to build on the site of Armour Square Park, just north of Old Comiskey. A detailed account of the political workings on this subject are discussed in Charles Euchner's Playing the Field.

You can learn a lot by not wasting time listening, watching, and reading the morons on radio, TV, and the newspapers.

:ass :giangreco :morrisey
"Us for example!"

monday i am going to get these books. but in the mean time, Racism? how?

Fisk72
08-09-2002, 03:59 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bess' design would have put the new stadium (Armour Park) where that park (also Armour Park? :) ) is now and the park where Old Comiskey was (basically, flip flopping sites). Old Comiskey was a buffer between the projects and the park. Basically, according to Bess, between the whites and blacks. I guess there was concern that if Bess' plan went through, the park would've been open more to the projects and you would have seen more of those hate beatings. The argument kinda has value to it, but c'mmon, the police headquarters is just a few blocks away!

PaleHoseGeorge
08-09-2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


monday i am going to get these books. but in the mean time, Racism? how?

"A prominent local politician in DuPage County" expressed direct concern to Reinsdorf about blacks. Reinsdorf quotes him in his interview with Lindberg. Illinois Senate President Phil Rock (who worked hard on behalf of state stadium funding) is quoted stating Pate Philip saw there was no political consensus to welcome the Sox into Addison, and thus "did nothing" to build one.

Who do you think the unnamed racist politician was?

As for scuttling Armour Park, it's a bit complicated. It's best explained in Euchner's book. But essentially, the Bridgeporters living north of Armour Square Park consider that park "theirs". If a new public park were to have been built at 35th & Shields (as Bess proposed), the black community living south of 35th Street in the South Armour neighborhood would have access. Racists can't have that, can they?

If this sounds far-fetched, consider that Euchner was recounting these events in 1992. It was just five years later that a black kid was beaten senseless for riding his bike near the fieldhouse of South Armour Park in a racially-motivated attack.

Speaking personally, I park my car on the EAST side of the Dan Ryan and feel 100-times safer than dealing with the punks living north and west of the ballpark. Lord only knows what else they're laying claim to.

LongDistanceFan
08-09-2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge




Who do you think the unnamed racist politician was?

.

i definitely have to get the book and read it. btw does it gives hints to who this person is?

Foulke You
08-09-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Nice post, 88. And welcome to WSI.

I agree with almost everything you say about Comiskey and the unfair negative image it has gotten.

In answer to your question about the site and orientation of Comiskey Park II, there were three overriding factors.

1. The city and state needed the ballpark to be directly across the street from the old ballpark to save on the infrastructure improvements (water, sewage, electrical, etc.) necessary to build CPII. For most improvements, routing the existing lines with a left turn instead of a right turn was all that was required. They did nearly the same trick building the United Center practically across the street from the old Chicago Stadium.

2. CPII was not designed to fit the Chicago street grid. (The original design was to be placed in the middle of a giant parking lot at the corner of Lake & Swift Road in suburban Addison). Thus CPII had to be wedged into the existing site. (This is why Shields Avenue now terminates at 35th Street). One building they could not tear down was the retirement home along Wentworth Avenue. The orientation the city planners chose required the fewest modifications to the original ballpark design. For example, the pedestrian ramps north of 35th Street required the added expense of a three-deck pedestrian bridge over the street.

3. For sentimental reasons, locating homeplate in the northwest corner of the site allowed CPII to remain at the historic ballpark's 80 y.o. street address: 35th and Shields. At the time, there was a lot of political posturing over holding onto the team's roots on the South Side and that specific address.

In retrospect, these are all pretty lame reasons for not having an outfield that opens towards the city skyline and Lake Michigan. Today's ballparks are little more than picture postcards for the local chamber of commerce. Chicago has (arguably) the most famous skyline in the world. Would it have been so bad to locate CPII at 37th and Shields and capitalize on the city's signature invention to the world of architecture, the skyscraper? Obviously not.

Anyway, those are the reasons I'm aware of for CPII facing the southeast, rather than the preferred northeast.

Besides the main reasons that PHG stated, another lesser known reason for CPII design and facing direction is that the Sox (Reinsdorf) wanted a hitters park. Old Comiskey was a pitchers park with huge gaps and the wind was always blowing in. More dingers=more excitement the way they saw it. Tom Paciorek said on the last night game at Old Comiskey that they studied wind patterns for a while and discussed with the architect the best way to get the park so that the wind would blow out more frequently. If CPII faced the same direction as Old Comiskey it would have the same wind blowing in all the time. I think they failed in building a hitters park because while the wind blows in less frequently, it seems to have a swirling effect at CPII that changes as the innings go on. They had to bring the fences in slightly to help make the park more hitter friendly in 2001. The swirling wind wreaks more havoc on the outfielders then it helps homers. DJ said it is one of the harder parks to play OF in if you aren't used to the swirling wind.

LongDistanceFan
08-09-2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You


Besides the main reasons that PHG stated, another lesser known reason for CPII design and facing direction is that the Sox (Reinsdorf) wanted a hitters park. Old Comiskey was a pitchers park with huge gaps and the wind was always blowing in. More dingers=more excitement the way they saw it. Tom Paciorek said on the last night game at Old Comiskey that they studied wind patterns for a while and discussed with the architect the best way to get the park so that the wind would blow out more frequently. If CPII faced the same direction as Old Comiskey it would have the same wind blowing in all the time. I think they failed in building a hitters park because while the wind blows in less frequently, it seems to have a swirling effect at CPII that changes as the innings go on. They had to bring the fences in slightly to help make the park more hitter friendly in 2001. The swirling wind wreaks more havoc on the outfielders then it helps homers. DJ said it is one of the harder parks to play OF in if you aren't used to the swirling wind.

great insight on cpII

Sad
08-12-2002, 09:22 AM
I agree w/ No-Neck...

those seats from 1st to 3rd in the first 7 rows or so of the UD offer a very nice view of the game. Id rather sit there ANY DAY than out in the bleachers where it's difficult to follow the action... or 30 rows back looking at right or left field w/ my neck turned one direction all night (as remembered when I witnessed the SOX' first victory at the then very-New Comiskey against the Ti-Girls, I went to the UD for this exact reason)

Ive sat all the way down the 1B line where it stars to bend (509?) 7th row and enjoyed that, as well as higher up.

I guess I'm one of the few die-hard SOX fans that enjoys the Comiskey/SOX experience regardless of where I sit...

I think my fav. is the Club Level (AKA Comiskey Hotel) near the bases, although being much less congested it lacks what the 100 level has to offer.

LongDistanceFan
08-12-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Sad
I agree w/ No-Neck...

those seats from 1st to 3rd in the first 7 rows or so of the UD offer a very nice view of the game. Id rather sit there ANY DAY than out in the bleachers where it's difficult to follow the action... or 30 rows back looking at right or left field w/ my neck turned one direction all night (as remembered when I witnessed the SOX' first victory at the then very-New Comiskey against the Ti-Girls, I went to the UD for this exact reason)

Ive sat all the way down the 1B line where it stars to bend (509?) 7th row and enjoyed that, as well as higher up.

I guess I'm one of the few die-hard SOX fans that enjoys the Comiskey/SOX experience regardless of where I sit...

I think my fav. is the Club Level (AKA Comiskey Hotel) near the bases, although being much less congested it lacks what the 100 level has to offer.

i won't disagree with you, but say that i sat in the bleachers. in addition i was able to see what is going on. maybe b/c i know the game and was able to follow it. its just like hockey, if you know the game you can follow it.

Sad
08-12-2002, 01:51 PM
:b&b

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
what?

well, it's not that I don't "know" the game, as, I think I do anyways (I should after following it religiously for over 20 years)

what IT IS, is I can't see the damn ball very well from the bleachers.

:scrubs

I just personally think that's a place to sit if you're hoping to catch a home run ball, as MOST of the action is on the other side of the park... Most people I go with also prefer sitting near the diamond.

I realize many people like it out there in the bleachers/outfield so I'm really happy for them :D:

I'm also one of those guys that listens to John & Ed, every game... even when I mange to luck into our supplier's front row seats behind the SOX dugout... some people don't get that either, so perhaps that places me in the odd minority of weird, fastly-approaching middle-age SOX fans...

Schlitz! :gulp:
<just kidding>

<insert Old Style can tag here>

Sad
08-12-2002, 01:56 PM
<the often-dim, 4W nightlight upstairs just kicked on...>

I understand what you mean though about knowing the game as mentioned in your hockey reference
(HAWKsssssssssssssssssssssss)

perhaps I should also have my prescription re-checked...

see ya out there soon.

LongDistanceFan
08-12-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Sad
:b&b

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
what?

well, it's not that I don't "know" the game, as, I think I do anyways (I should after following it religiously for over 20 years)

what IT IS, is I can't see the damn ball very well from the bleachers.

:scrubs

I just personally think that's a place to sit if you're hoping to catch a home run ball, as MOST of the action is on the other side of the park... Most people I go with also prefer sitting near the diamond.

I realize many people like it out there in the bleachers/outfield so I'm really happy for them :D:

I'm also one of those guys that listens to John & Ed, every game... even when I mange to luck into our supplier's front row seats behind the SOX dugout... some people don't get that either, so perhaps that places me in the odd minority of weird, fastly-approaching middle-age SOX fans...

Schlitz! :gulp:
<just kidding>

<insert Old Style can tag here>

the comparison is between the ud and the bleachers. i been a fan for 30+ yrs and i will tell, i enjoyed sitting in the bleachers for most of those yrs. however, after getting a decent chunk of change in my pay, i was able to afford the seats behind the plate and behind the first base. most blue collar people enjoys what they can get.

Sad
08-12-2002, 02:20 PM
I thought we were talking preferred sight-lines & I didn't realize we were talking price...

if so-
UD box is $18
Bleachers also $18
Outfield reserved $20

then there's the $12 UD reserved and "seat-weasel" option
(yes, I confess, I've done this many a time)
because as far as I am concerned, anything in the UD above row 5 is NOT a BOX seat...

so it's really a matter of where you like to sit,
not what color your collar is...

Sad
08-12-2002, 02:24 PM
30+ year fan

did you ever sit in the outfield upper deck at the Old Park?
I spent MANY games out there when I was in high school and tech school and before I got a (semi-) real job

maybe thats another reason why I prefer the infield now...

the good ole days of the scheduled Double-Header...

doublem23
08-12-2002, 02:26 PM
Bleacher seats on Half-Price Mondays (and Tuesdays) are the greatest thing ever. Especially when you throw in some tailgating.

LongDistanceFan
08-12-2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Sad
30+ year fan

did you ever sit in the outfield upper deck at the Old Park?
I spent MANY games out there when I was in high school and tech school and before I got a (semi-) real job

maybe thats another reason why I prefer the infield now...

the good ole days of the scheduled Double-Header...

i lived in the old park.

Sad
08-12-2002, 02:35 PM
man I have some memories of that old park...
I remember meeting Harry once before the game when my folks took me to one of my first games...

I hear ya- I love tailgating.
that's 1/2 the fun I think!

my wife always moans about it though...

why do we have to get there 2 hours early?
what are we going to do in a hot asphalt lot?

empty cans and grill snausages that's what!

GO SOX!

LongDistanceFan
08-12-2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Sad


empty cans and grill snausages that's what!

GO SOX!

man that was the time. i remember my mom, wheni was young, used make a whole bunch of hotdogs and we were able to bring them in and eat. that was another time.

siugrad25
08-12-2002, 03:45 PM
Personally, I have no problems with CPII.

Sure I would have loved for it to face downtown and the beautiful skyline instead of the picturesque viewing of the defunct apartment buildings, but what can you do?

And sure it's not Wrigley -- but who cares?

Sox fans are blue-collar workers who want to go to a ballpark and watch winners. We're not concerned only with how many beers we can consume by the seventh inning of a ballgame.

I had season tickets in the first round of the bleachers between third and home plate and never complained about the view.

The sightlines are fine and for the most part you can have as good anywhere in the Majors.

Ive been to over 10 ballparks in the last year since I moved to South Florida and trust me... it's 100 percent better than going to The Trop for a ballgame.

Enjoy CPII.

One last thing. Attendance isn't everything. Put a good team on the field and you'll have fans. In 2000, it might not have been sold out every game, but we had fun. And that's ALL that matters.

Dan H
08-12-2002, 07:56 PM
I found a seat that has worse than any seat in the Comiskey upper deck. I was at Cinergy Field this past weekend and sat in the last row of the lower deck, almost even with the left field foul pole. There was an overhang, and I had a hard time seeing any ball hit high in the air. Two Reds players hit homers and there were fireworks. I heard the fireworks, but I couldn't see them. I also couldn't see the scoreboard that had the stats of the batter at the plate and scores from the rest of major league baseball. Though I was sitting down the left field line, the left field corner was actually a blind spot. There was a capacity crowd so I could go down to any lower seat. I spent the last two innings in the upper deck after some of the crowd cleared out in a lopsided Reds victory. I finally got to see the whole park. I was not impressed with Cinergy in the least. (Also for those who wonder: The left field seats are gone because the new stadium is butting right against the old. The back drop in left field looks awful.)

However, there is one advantage that Cinergy has over Comiskey and Wrigley. Since it opened in 1970 as Riverfront Stadium, it hosted five World Series and three other division playoffs. A Reds fan sitting next me told me he will still miss the cookie cutter stadium because of all the history. That is what Comiskey really needs: History.