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View Full Version : FOX Sports: Sox Are Indeed Listening To Offers For Sale


Thome25
12-09-2013, 11:26 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago-white-sox-could-shop-left-handed-pitchers-at-winter-meetings-chris-sale-jose-quintana-hector-santiago-120813

I think we should keep him but I wouldn't be disappointed of we sold high on him right now.

cards press box
12-09-2013, 11:33 AM
I don't think this is actually happening. I do think that Jon Paul Morosi, for whatever reason, is trying to drum up interest in a potential Chris Sale deal.

Anyway, I don't see it happening.

Thome25
12-09-2013, 11:36 AM
MLB Trade Rumors is also in on the action with quotes from Hahn:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chicago_white_sox/index.html

This is taking on a life of its own on Twitter as well.

Thome25
12-09-2013, 11:43 AM
When asked about Sale Reinsdorf said the only untouchable he ever had was MJ:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/410074436021518336

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/reinsdorf-only-michael-jordan-was-untouchable

sullythered
12-09-2013, 01:10 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but the return would have to be essentially historic. 6 years of control for an (arguably) top five major league pitcher in his early prime.

soltrain21
12-09-2013, 02:15 PM
I'd do it, but you better be getting a haul.

sullythered
12-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Just out of curiosity, can anybody think of another situation to which we could compare a Sale trade? All the pitchers of his caliber that I can think of who were traded had 2 or fewer years left on their deals, had giant contracts, or were much older. It would probably have to be multiple top 25 overall prospects coming back.

Sargeant79
12-09-2013, 02:18 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but the return would have to be essentially historic. 6 years of control for an (arguably) top five major league pitcher in his early prime.

Historic is exactly right. The only way you trade away a guy like Sale is if you're blown away with 2-3 prospects that all have the potential to develop into a guy on Sale's level. And you probably need a couple secondary pieces on top of that.

TaylorStSox
12-09-2013, 02:20 PM
Historic is exactly right. The only way you trade away a guy like Sale is if you're blown away with 2-3 prospects that all have the potential to develop into a guy on Sale's level. And you probably need a couple secondary pieces on top of that.

Need more than 2 or 3. This would have to be a Herschel Walker type deal.

Chez
12-09-2013, 02:21 PM
Again?! The "Should the Sox trade Chris Sale" thread has been recycled more often on WSI than the "Best Hot Dog/Pizza" threads.

TaylorStSox
12-09-2013, 02:24 PM
Again?! The "Should the Sox trade Chris Sale" thread has been recycled more often on WSI than the "Best Hot Dog/Pizza" threads.

It's the winter meetings. It's all over Twitter. Should we not talk about it?

blandman
12-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Considering the packages being bandied around for David Price and the fact that Sale has even more value than him, I couldn't imagine what team could realistically put together a fair package. Maybe the Cubs, but I don't want to trade Sale there (and Hahn better be thinking the same thing).

blandman
12-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Again?! The "Should the Sox trade Chris Sale" thread has been recycled more often on WSI than the "Best Hot Dog/Pizza" threads.

This is more of a "confirmation that the Sox would indeed deal Sale" thread.

Chez
12-09-2013, 02:47 PM
It's the winter meetings. It's all over Twitter. Should we not talk about it?

By all means, please discuss. But I'm sticking with my original choice of Hot Doug's. :cool:

Noneck
12-09-2013, 02:52 PM
The story is not if "we" think Sale should be traded its that the Sox are saying he is not untouchable. I like that.

Moses_Scurry
12-09-2013, 02:59 PM
The story is not if "we" think Sale should be traded its that the Sox are saying he is not untouchable. I like that.

Exactamundo! Saying that he is not untouchable is not the same thing as saying they will trade him. Nobody on the Sox is untouchable. I don't know why this is a story. They should be willing to listen to offers for anyone at any time. I don't think the Sox have had an "untouchable" player since Frank in the early '90's.

Thome25
12-09-2013, 03:00 PM
To play Devils advocate, Sale's inverted "W" delivery *may* very well be a serious injury waiting to happen. I also suspect this is why Sale and his agent gave away a few years of control and millions more dollars because they two know his higher risk for injury and they wanted more guaranteed money.

We may want to trade him before he's tying up salary while sitting on the DL.

Thome25
12-09-2013, 03:18 PM
The Diamondbacks are one of the teams with the most aggressive interest in Sale:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chicago_white_sox/index.html

For the fun of it, can someone please tell me who some of the Diamondbacks top prospects are?

Also, the Sox are looking to deal a starter. Both Quintana and Sale are not untouchable.

cards press box
12-09-2013, 03:30 PM
The Diamondbacks are one of the teams with the most aggressive interest in Sale:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chicago_white_sox/index.html

For the fun of it, can someone please tell me who some of the Diamondbacks top prospects are?

Also, the Sox are looking to deal a starter. Both Quintana and Sale are not untouchable.

Unless the Sox get all of St. Louis' prospects plus some major leaguers (or something equally crazy), they are not dealing Sale.

I don't see the Sox dealing Quintana, either, but that seems at least possible, albeit unlikely.

As for John Danks or Santiago, a trade of one of them seems more plausible. We'll see.

Fastball23
12-09-2013, 03:30 PM
The Diamondbacks are one of the teams with the most aggressive interest in Sale:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chicago_white_sox/index.html

For the fun of it, can someone please tell me who some of the Diamondbacks top prospects are?

Also, the Sox are looking to deal a starter. Both Quintana and Sale are not untouchable.

Archie Bradley, Adam Eaton and Tyler Skaggs would look great in a Sox uniform

sullythered
12-09-2013, 04:52 PM
Considering the packages being bandied around for David Price and the fact that Sale has even more value than him, I couldn't imagine what team could realistically put together a fair package. Maybe the Cubs, but I don't want to trade Sale there (and Hahn better be thinking the same thing).

This is kinda what Im thinking too. I don't know if there is a team even capable of trading what would be necessary to acquire Sale.

sullythered
12-09-2013, 04:54 PM
Archie Bradley, Adam Eaton and Tyler Skaggs would look great in a Sox uniform

That package wouldnt even get the DBacks halfway there.

JohnTucker0814
12-09-2013, 05:23 PM
The team we should be talking to is the Mariners... I know they have a pretty good stock pile of youngsters and with the money they paid for Cano, they NEED to win NOW!

They might be willing to give up all their top young talent.

But I still wouldn't give up 6 years of Sale for 8 years of potential prospects!

Tragg
12-09-2013, 05:25 PM
Considering the packages being bandied around for David Price and the fact that Sale has even more value than him, I couldn't imagine what team could realistically put together a fair package. Maybe the Cubs, but I don't want to trade Sale there (and Hahn better be thinking the same thing).

I think teams COULD but I don't think they will. The teams that would want a Sale would really want him as an Ace during their "win now" window. That's not a 6 year window, so they likely won't want to pay that full value of a below market Ace for 6 years.
We're talking at least 3 prospects with solid All Star ceilings, plus other good prospects.

blandman
12-09-2013, 06:59 PM
I think teams COULD but I don't think they will. The teams that would want a Sale would really want him as an Ace during their "win now" window. That's not a 6 year window, so they likely won't want to pay that full value of a below market Ace for 6 years.
We're talking at least 3 prospects with solid All Star ceilings, plus other good prospects.

Indeed. And really, there's maybe three or four farm systems that would qualify. Tampa, which is the opposite of what they do; the Cubs, which we better get every damn prospect; and the Twins and Royals, both of which are non-starters on both ends of this kind of deal. I couldn't piece together a fair minor league package from any other team. Well, maybe the Marlins, but they're in the same boat as the Rays.

Tragg
12-09-2013, 08:55 PM
Indeed. And really, there's maybe three or four farm systems that would qualify. Tampa, which is the opposite of what they do; the Cubs, which we better get every damn prospect; and the Twins and Royals, both of which are non-starters on both ends of this kind of deal. I couldn't piece together a fair minor league package from any other team. Well, maybe the Marlins, but they're in the same boat as the Rays.

Of course, the needs would be less if they want to use Sale as a vehicle to dump bad contracts. But that would be insane to use Sale for those purposes.

blandman
12-09-2013, 09:53 PM
Of course, the needs would be less if they want to use Sale as a vehicle to dump bad contracts. But that would be insane to use Sale for those purposes.

Well...unless you're unloading every contract and still getting back a few really good prospects.

If you could get two or three top fifty prospects while unloading Dunn, Ramirez, and (most importantly) Danks....you have to at least think about it. Yeah, none of those contracts on their own break the bank. But that's prospects PLUS the ability to re-allocate those funds towards better free agents.

DSpivack
12-09-2013, 10:05 PM
Well...unless you're unloading every contract and still getting back a few really good prospects.

If you could get two or three top fifty prospects while unloading Dunn, Ramirez, and (most importantly) Danks....you have to at least think about it. Yeah, none of those contracts on their own break the bank. But that's prospects PLUS the ability to re-allocate those funds towards better free agents.

That sounds like a pretty bad idea. The Sox do not have any contracts that truly hamstring their options going forward.

doublem23
12-09-2013, 10:10 PM
That sounds like a pretty bad idea. The Sox do not have any contracts that truly hamstring their options going forward.

Yeah, exactly, that is a ridiculous idea

Worst deal we have going forward from this season is 2 years left of Danks at $28 M total. That's fine.

Boondock Saint
12-09-2013, 10:20 PM
I'd do it, but you better be getting a haul.

Yep. Several MLB-ready star-caliber prospects, nothing less.

Tragg
12-09-2013, 11:23 PM
Well...unless you're unloading every contract and still getting back a few really good prospects.

If you could get two or three top fifty prospects while unloading Dunn, Ramirez, and (most importantly) Danks....you have to at least think about it. Yeah, none of those contracts on their own break the bank. But that's prospects PLUS the ability to re-allocate those funds towards better free agents.

No, because Dunn and Ramirez are inverse rents....you're giving up an ace pitcher to get rid of 1 year contracts. That's a bad, bad deal.
Danks may still be effective...not a huge albatross. And even if it is, Sale is better than any FA we'd get for the money saved.
Using Sale to unload bad contracts is a bad idea. He needs to be used to either pitch or to acquire top 10 prospects.

WhiteSox5187
12-09-2013, 11:54 PM
I have two thoughts:

1. There is a difference between "listening" and actively engaging in trade talks. As others have said, if the Sox are offered a great deal they should take it.

2. Having said that, I have no reason to trust this organization's ability to successfully judge young talent.

blandman
12-10-2013, 09:40 AM
No, because Dunn and Ramirez are inverse rents....you're giving up an ace pitcher to get rid of 1 year contracts. That's a bad, bad deal.
Danks may still be effective...not a huge albatross. And even if it is, Sale is better than any FA we'd get for the money saved.
Using Sale to unload bad contracts is a bad idea. He needs to be used to either pitch or to acquire top 10 prospects.

2 - 3 top fifty prospects aren't exactly a bad haul. And we're talking about unloading nearly $50 million in salary next year alone. That's the posting fee for Masahiro Tanaka (who with the new system, we'd likely win the bid) and a couple of marquee free agents, like Choo if we wanted.

Moses_Scurry
12-10-2013, 09:53 AM
2 - 3 top fifty prospects aren't exactly a bad haul. And we're talking about unloading nearly $50 million in salary next year alone. That's the posting fee for Masahiro Tanaka (who with the new system, we'd likely win the bid) and a couple of marquee free agents, like Choo if we wanted.

Last I heard, the player gets to choose who he negotiates with in the event of a tie. If the maximum posting fee is in fact $20million as reported, then many teams will make that bid. It will be up to the Sox to convince him to come here as if he were a free agent. In other words, they probably won't win his services if this is indeed the case as I'm sure the Dodgers, Yanks, Red Sox, and Rangers would be in on him as well. If this is wrong and the rights go to the team with the worst record as some have speculated, I would not put it past the Astros to take him as the ace of their budding rotation.

Tragg
12-10-2013, 10:07 AM
2 - 3 top fifty prospects aren't exactly a bad haul. And we're talking about unloading nearly $50 million in salary next year alone. That's the posting fee for Masahiro Tanaka (who with the new system, we'd likely win the bid) and a couple of marquee free agents, like Choo if we wanted.

For Sale it is a bad haul.
And the Sox shouldn't let 1 year of Alexei and Dunn prevent them from a max bid on Tanaka or Choo if that's who they wanted.
Why sign Choo if you aren't trying to win now anyway? Well, you just gave up your ace.

The Danks contract is the huge albatross re number of years, although I still think there's a reasonable chance he can be a solid rotation pitcher.

russ99
12-10-2013, 10:30 AM
2 - 3 top fifty prospects aren't exactly a bad haul. And we're talking about unloading nearly $50 million in salary next year alone. That's the posting fee for Masahiro Tanaka (who with the new system, we'd likely win the bid) and a couple of marquee free agents, like Choo if we wanted.

A Sale trade for prospects would be way too iffy. The Sox would be assuming all the risk, and I personally don't trust the Sox scouting department to identify prospects who could become difference makers.

Besides, there's no need to move an ace signed for 4 years to a team friendly contract, at least not now.

Two years down the road and we're still rebuilding, then maybe, depending on the haul.

blandman
12-10-2013, 12:25 PM
Last I heard, the player gets to choose who he negotiates with in the event of a tie. If the maximum posting fee is in fact $20million as reported, then many teams will make that bid. It will be up to the Sox to convince him to come here as if he were a free agent. In other words, they probably won't win his services if this is indeed the case as I'm sure the Dodgers, Yanks, Red Sox, and Rangers would be in on him as well. If this is wrong and the rights go to the team with the worst record as some have speculated, I would not put it past the Astros to take him as the ace of their budding rotation.

The new system is a capped bid ($20 million cap) with the winner being based on last season's record (worst to first).

blandman
12-10-2013, 12:27 PM
The Danks contract is the huge albatross re number of years, although I still think there's a reasonable chance he can be a solid rotation pitcher.

I want to think this, too, but it isn't based on anything that's happened in history. Nobody has ever come back from his particular injury to have a solid, uninhibited career. The most consistent player to ever have his injury and have a decent career was Rich Harden, and Harden opted not to do the surgery.

rdivaldi
12-10-2013, 12:30 PM
The new system is a capped bid ($20 million cap) with the winner being based on last season's record (worst to first).

Huh? I am unaware of a winner being named based on last season's record, where did you read that?

rdivaldi
12-10-2013, 12:33 PM
The new system is a capped bid ($20 million cap) with the winner being based on last season's record (worst to first).

Reading a few of the more recent columns, this is wrong. All teams that meet the $20 million cap are then free to negotiate with the player. Basically it works like free agency at that point.

blandman
12-10-2013, 02:49 PM
Reading a few of the more recent columns, this is wrong. All teams that meet the $20 million cap are then free to negotiate with the player. Basically it works like free agency at that point.

You're right, it looks like the small market teams must have dropped that demand. That's unfortunate. This won't solve the inherent issue with the system. The Yankees will simply outbid everyone still if they need to.

TDog
12-10-2013, 07:16 PM
But White Sox management being so delusional, it will never happen.