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View Full Version : Blue Jays attempting to deal for Samardzija


mzh
11-24-2013, 12:21 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/blue-jays-putting-together-package-for-samardzija.html

Props to Theo if he can get several solid prospect for his 29 year old 'ace' with a career ERA over 4.

DSpivack
12-17-2013, 05:25 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/atl/atlanta-braves-complete-search-for-rotation-depth-with-gavin-floyd-signing?ymd=20131217&content_id=66040150&vkey=news_atl

The Cubs wanted Upton or Heyward for Samardzija?!?!

ChiSoxNationPres
12-17-2013, 07:10 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/atl/atlanta-braves-complete-search-for-rotation-depth-with-gavin-floyd-signing?ymd=20131217&content_id=66040150&vkey=news_atl

The Cubs wanted Upton or Heyward for Samardzija?!?!

That seems a bit delusional, yes. But what is more troubling is that the article says that it would take around the same to acquire Sale as it would for Price. How does Sale not have way more value than Price? He is in team's control for 5 more years I think, and is just as good of a pitcher. Not to mention Price missed over a month last season to an injury.

DSpivack
12-17-2013, 09:35 PM
That seems a bit delusional, yes. But what is more troubling is that the article says that it would take around the same to acquire Sale as it would for Price. How does Sale not have way more value than Price? He is in team's control for 5 more years I think, and is just as good of a pitcher. Not to mention Price missed over a month last season to an injury.

I thought the article said they were asking for at least as much as what Tampa was asking for Price?

Either way, I think it's rather moot as the Sox aren't trading Sale.

Tragg
12-18-2013, 10:18 AM
Heyward seems to have a bit more hype than substance.

The Diamondbacks will make another push for a #1...probably start with Sale as Towers and Hahn have a good relationship, but Cliff Lee may be more realistic.

blandman
12-18-2013, 12:59 PM
I wish we would deal for Samardzija, only because I want to see how quickly people's opinions of him will change. :cool:

doublem23
12-18-2013, 01:24 PM
I wish we would deal for Samardzija, only because I want to see how quickly people's opinions of him will change. :cool:

What website are you reading that everyone has a high opinion of all Sox players?

Moses_Scurry
12-18-2013, 01:25 PM
I wish we would deal for Samardzija, only because I want to see how quickly people's opinions of him will change. :cool:

On both sides.

I'd definitely take him, but not at the price their asking.

Moses_Scurry
12-18-2013, 01:25 PM
What website are you reading that everyone has a high opinion of all Sox players?

Maybe he's talking about the cub fans!

spawn
12-18-2013, 01:43 PM
What website are you reading that everyone has a high opinion of all Sox players?

I think he's insinuating we'd become enamored with Samardzija because he was on the team, probably because we don't share his opinion of Quintana.

blandman
12-18-2013, 01:56 PM
I have no doubt there would be a full on assault about how high his upside talent is from the same people that continually point at his career ERA as the end all, be all argument on his ability. The tide here would undoubtedly go to "we value production" to "we value upside". Which is fine by me, because I always value upside.

Moses_Scurry
12-18-2013, 02:05 PM
The cubs were/are counting on him to be the 'Ace' of the staff. It's a bit easier to put up with the high ERA+ high upside if you already have your 'Ace' ahead of him.

doublem23
12-18-2013, 02:11 PM
The cubs were/are counting on him to be the 'Ace' of the staff. It's a bit easier to put up with the high ERA+ high upside if you already have your 'Ace' ahead of him.

Yes

I have no doubt there would be a full on assault about how high his upside talent is from the same people that continually point at his career ERA as the end all, be all argument on his ability. The tide here would undoubtedly go to "we value production" to "we value upside". Which is fine by me, because I always value upside.

Probably not, you would just hear more from the high upside folks, it's not like people would be switching sides.

By the way, does he even qualify as a "high upsides" guy anymore? Isn't he 30 now? At what point does a guy go from being "high upsides" to just overrated and ****ty?

blandman
12-18-2013, 02:15 PM
Yes



Probably not, you would just hear more from the high upside folks, it's not like people would be switching sides.

By the way, does he even qualify as a "high upsides" guy anymore? Isn't he 30 now? At what point does a guy go from being "high upsides" to just overrated and ****ty?

The talent is there. With a pitching coach like Cooper, this guy would look a lot different.

Moses_Scurry
12-18-2013, 02:37 PM
Probably not, you would just hear more from the high upside folks, it's not like people would be switching sides.

By the way, does he even qualify as a "high upsides" guy anymore? Isn't he 30 now? At what point does a guy go from being "high upsides" to just overrated and ****ty?

Agreed. I doubt many people in both the Sox fan camp and the cub fan camp would completely reverse their thinking on Samardzija. There would be plenty of complaining on both sides of the fan aisle.

Tragg
12-18-2013, 09:32 PM
The talent is there. With a pitching coach like Cooper, this guy would look a lot different.

And the Cubs want to be paid as if he was a low 1/high 2. if the price was what he is based on performance - a mid 3 - then we should be interested. Cooper's ability to fix is our benefit, not the Cubs.

TDog
12-19-2013, 08:22 PM
I think he's insinuating we'd become enamored with Samardzija because he was on the team, probably because we don't share his opinion of Quintana.

I was reminded of writer/White Sox historian Rich Lindberg's observation years ago that White Sox fans cheer a bit louder for White Sox who are ex-Cubs.

That might have pre-dated Ron Santo.

Vernam
12-19-2013, 09:21 PM
I wish we would deal for Samardzija, only because I want to see how quickly people's opinions of him will change. :cool:

He could win the Cy Young for us, and I'd still despise him for the hair, the 'stache, and for hitting Paulie in the face. Without his ND football "pedigree," Samardzija would be recognized more broadly as the marginal talent and dimwit he is.

A perfect fit right where he is, in other words.

blandman
12-20-2013, 06:33 PM
He could win the Cy Young for us, and I'd still despise him for the hair, the 'stache, and for hitting Paulie in the face. Without his ND football "pedigree," Samardzija would be recognized more broadly as the marginal talent and dimwit he is.

A perfect fit right where he is, in other words.

What do his looks and the fact that he hit someone have to do with his talent level? You're beyond raging if you think his talent is marginal. He's got some of the best stuff in baseball. Stuff was never the issue.

blandman
12-20-2013, 06:35 PM
And the Cubs want to be paid as if he was a low 1/high 2. if the price was what he is based on performance - a mid 3 - then we should be interested. Cooper's ability to fix is our benefit, not the Cubs.

At his worst he's been an innings eater. But price is not based on performance, price is based on talent. Of which this guy has a ton. It would be one thing if the guy was bad...but he's put up solid seasons with some great stuff in his arsenal. It would be foolish for any team not to ask a lot for him.

Tragg
12-20-2013, 06:45 PM
At his worst he's been an innings eater. But price is not based on performance, price is based on talent. Of which this guy has a ton. It would be one thing if the guy was bad...but he's put up solid seasons with some great stuff in his arsenal. It would be foolish for any team not to ask a lot for him.
They can ask what they want. But when you're his age, results start to count. Glad the Sox aren't interested. We'll see if someone pays that price they want.

blandman
12-20-2013, 07:01 PM
They can ask what they want. But when you're his age, results start to count. Glad the Sox aren't interested. We'll see if someone pays that price they want.

He's gotten results, though. Not where the talent says, but he'd already be costly if his upside wasn't so much more.

My guess is they get their price when it becomes obvious Price isn't moving before the season.

Bobby Thigpen
12-20-2013, 09:51 PM
He's gotten results, though. Not where the talent says, but he'd already be costly if his upside wasn't so much more.
But results don't matter.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=139814

sullythered
12-20-2013, 10:55 PM
He's gotten results, though. Not where the talent says, but he'd already be costly if his upside wasn't so much more.

My guess is they get their price when it becomes obvious Price isn't moving before the season.

Same stuff and results as Edwin Jackson. That is what he is worth.

asindc
12-21-2013, 08:38 AM
Same stuff and results as Edwin Jackson. That is what he is worth.

Good call.

blandman
12-21-2013, 02:21 PM
But results don't matter.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=139814

It's results due to talent. There's a difference. And I didn't say results were trump. I'm saying this guy has results and talent, talent that could lead to much more.

Same stuff and results as Edwin Jackson. That is what he is worth.

This is not a good example. Jackson started pitching much earlier and was rushed. He's also got a higher career ERA.

Samardzija has only been a starter for two years. His innings count increased to over 200 for the first time ever last year. He's trending up. This is the kind of guy you go out and get now, because two years from now he's likely to be unacquirable.

TheVulture
12-21-2013, 02:28 PM
The Sox have given up a fair amount of pitching since the trade deadline, I'd be happy if they picked up any rotation worthy arm.

blandman
12-21-2013, 02:30 PM
The Sox have given up a fair amount of pitching since the trade deadline, I'd be happy if they picked up any rotation worthy arm.

Well, we have depth there with several back end options. I know...you can never have enough pitching. But unless we're picking up core pieces, we'll probably only pickup guys on flyers.

TheVulture
12-21-2013, 03:52 PM
Well, we have depth there with several back end options. I know...you can never have enough pitching. But unless we're picking up core pieces, we'll probably only pickup guys on flyers.

Hmm...I thought everyone but Sale was a borderline number 5?

blandman
12-21-2013, 05:29 PM
Hmm...I thought everyone but Sale was a borderline number 5?

Everyone but Sale and Quintana, yes. But we've got more than enough of them to fill out our rotation.

sullythered
12-21-2013, 08:45 PM
It's results due to talent. There's a difference. And I didn't say results were trump. I'm saying this guy has results and talent, talent that could lead to much more.



This is not a good example. Jackson started pitching much earlier and was rushed. He's also got a higher career ERA.

Samardzija has only been a starter for two years. His innings count increased to over 200 for the first time ever last year. He's trending up. This is the kind of guy you go out and get now, because two years from now he's likely to be unacquirable.

OK. His value should be whatever Gavin Floyd's was before the injury, then. Gavin didn't start pitching starter's innings until later, and had comparable ERA and WHIP numbers along with great stuff in the tougher American League. Whatever Gavin's worth on the market would have been a couple years ago, that is what Samardzija's should be now. Essentially, an OK 3.

blandman
12-21-2013, 10:21 PM
OK. His value should be whatever Gavin Floyd's was before the injury, then. Gavin didn't start pitching starter's innings until later, and had comparable ERA and WHIP numbers along with great stuff in the tougher American League. Whatever Gavin's worth on the market would have been a couple years ago, that is what Samardzija's should be now. Essentially, an OK 3.

No, because Gavin's ceiling was always going to be lower. He was a high draft pick, but was a curveball reliant guy. He didn't have the fastball Samardzija does, and he never had as many quality pitches.

I think there's a huge disconnect between what establishes value. It's not one thing or another per-say, but when a guys both doing well and has tremendous stuff, it's funny to compare him really. He's not going to get the highest end, like a David Price or a Chris Sale, but he should get more than most 1-2 guys because he's at worst right there with them but at best a lot closer to those first two guys.

robertks61
12-22-2013, 09:35 AM
Keep Samardzija and his smugness on the north side where it belongs.

Domeshot17
12-22-2013, 05:55 PM
His Value is whatever other teams say it is. What you I or munch thinks is his value is just internet gossip. If teams look at him and see a number 2 with number 1 potential, and will pay for that, it is what it is. If teams look at him and see a mid rotation SP, they will only offer that.

In my opinion, his value is supremely better than Gavin. Gavin was not a great pitcher. He had some good runs, but he was really just a mid to back end SP who crumbled in big games. The thing Samardzija has that Jackson, Gavin and the other hater comparisons is that he could start game 1 of a playoff series and keep you in a game with just about anyone. A real comparison for him is AJ Burnett with a little better control. His stuff is incredible, his command is iffy, his movement is great and he could a number 1 or 2 SP.

blandman
12-22-2013, 06:02 PM
His Value is whatever other teams say it is. What you I or munch thinks is his value is just internet gossip. If teams look at him and see a number 2 with number 1 potential, and will pay for that, it is what it is. If teams look at him and see a mid rotation SP, they will only offer that.

In my opinion, his value is supremely better than Gavin. Gavin was not a great pitcher. He had some good runs, but he was really just a mid to back end SP who crumbled in big games. The thing Samardzija has that Jackson, Gavin and the other hater comparisons is that he could start game 1 of a playoff series and keep you in a game with just about anyone. A real comparison for him is AJ Burnett with a little better control. His stuff is incredible, his command is iffy, his movement is great and he could a number 1 or 2 SP.

Spot on, especially with the Burnett comparison.

doublem23
12-22-2013, 10:58 PM
His Value is whatever other teams say it is. What you I or munch thinks is his value is just internet gossip. If teams look at him and see a number 2 with number 1 potential, and will pay for that, it is what it is. If teams look at him and see a mid rotation SP, they will only offer that.

In my opinion, his value is supremely better than Gavin. Gavin was not a great pitcher. He had some good runs, but he was really just a mid to back end SP who crumbled in big games. The thing Samardzija has that Jackson, Gavin and the other hater comparisons is that he could start game 1 of a playoff series and keep you in a game with just about anyone. A real comparison for him is AJ Burnett with a little better control. His stuff is incredible, his command is iffy, his movement is great and he could a number 1 or 2 SP.

The Burnett comparison is ludicrous, by the time AJ was a full-time SP for 2 seasons, he had accumulated 6.7 WAR in about 500 IP; Samardzija has pitched nearly 600 innings and has half that amount. Samardzija's waaWL% is under .500, for Christ's sake. That's mid-rotation starter stuff. Oh yes, he's 29 years old. Burnett was 25 at that point.

Come on, guys, Jeff Samardzija is far from the first guy whose actual production didn't match his potential. Happens all the time in baseball.

blandman
12-23-2013, 04:44 AM
The Burnett comparison is ludicrous, by the time AJ was a full-time SP for 2 seasons, he had accumulated 6.7 WAR in about 500 IP; Samardzija has pitched nearly 600 innings and has half that amount. Samardzija's waaWL% is under .500, for Christ's sake. That's mid-rotation starter stuff. Oh yes, he's 29 years old. Burnett was 25 at that point.

Come on, guys, Jeff Samardzija is far from the first guy whose actual production didn't match his potential. Happens all the time in baseball.

Hell, it happened with Burnett, who didn't perform that well again until he was like 38. But stuff wise, Samardzija is right there with Burnett, right there with Sale, right there with anyone. That's why he gets every chance, that's why his value is always going to be higher than his numbers if they aren't elite. Because if anyone's going to be elite, he's at the top of the list.