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Viva Magglio
08-07-2002, 09:27 AM
According to the Score's Dan Bernstein, polarization has occurred within the coaching staff of the White Sox. Supposedly, there is a division of "pro-Kenny guys" and a division of "anti-Kenny guys." It is not said which side Jerry Manuel is on. Gary Pettis, very pro-Kenny, has been said to be KW's spy in the clubhouse. Also, Daryl Boston (pro-Kenny) is in line to replace Wallace Johnson.

Furthermore, Bernstein said that KW resented Jerry Reinsdorf bringing in Roland Hemond to provide guidence. KW has basically rebuffed this effort. And Williams continues to be paranoid at any media criticism. Now while there is certainly a lot of legitimate criticism of the media's coverage of our team, KW is beyond rational in blaming the media for everything that has gone wrong.

This man must go.

Viva Magglio
08-07-2002, 09:32 AM
After one particular loss, as some of you may know, KW got so angry that he flipped over a buffet table in the clubhouse. Going insane, he called the players "MF'ers" and "b******."

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
After one particular loss, as some of you may know, KW got so angry that he flipped over a buffet table in the clubhouse. Going insane, he called the players "MF'ers" and "b******."

For people who say Manuel has lost control of the team, there's your reason.

Unbelieveable.

Viva Magglio
08-07-2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


For people who say Manuel has lost control of the team, there's your reason.

Unbelieveable.

KW is the de facto manager, and he is Bob Knight in a general manager's apparel.

CubKilla
08-07-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
After one particular loss, as some of you may know, KW got so angry that he flipped over a buffet table in the clubhouse. Going insane, he called the players "MF'ers" and "b******."

Too bad Maggs, Konerko, or Buehrle didn't pimp slap him and reply, "Who's the b**** now?" VIVA MAGGLIO is right..... this jerk has to go. I wonder what JR thinks when he hears of stuff like this? Obviously not alot. KW is still the GM (and I use the term GM loosely). JR probably blames the fans indirectly for KW's infantile behavior.

KingXerxes
08-07-2002, 10:58 AM
I was laughing my a$$ off when I heard about Kenny Williams' tirade in the locker room. Who in hell does this guy think he is?

What was the name of that real annoying guy who used to grab a microphone between innings and "entertain" the fans during the game? That should be Kenny Williams' new gig.....a between innings feature of "Who Played Like a Bitch Last Inning?"

Cheryl
08-07-2002, 11:43 AM
Joe Stephen.

voodoochile
08-07-2002, 11:50 AM
This may be the best chance to clean house. JR won't be happy with this development. He has always been a fan of people doing their job. KW's meddling ways may just be his downfall yet (one can only hope).

I can't picture JM sticking around much longer if KW keeps this up, and that may be what KW is truly after. Get JM to quit, so KW can bring in his own guy. He probably isn't allowed to fire JM until at least next season.

This is probably the reason that JM quit trying this season, too...

When did the buffet table incident occur. I have been out of the loop recently on Sox news...

Viva Magglio
08-07-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
When did the buffet table incident occur. I have been out of the loop recently on Sox news...

It supposedly happened earlier in the season on a road trip.

KingXerxes
08-07-2002, 12:16 PM
WSCR was saying this morning that Kenny Williams' "guy" is Daryl Boston - who has already alienated several people down at the Triple A level with his attitude.

This could become an absolute comedy before it gets straightened out.

duke of dorwood
08-07-2002, 12:21 PM
I seldom believe anything I hear on that station. However, its obvious there are more "brakes" in this team than in the Nascar garage area.They cannot be fixed. Reinsdork created this, and this reflects bad on HIM.

What a legacy he leaves if he ever goes.

KingXerxes
08-07-2002, 12:34 PM
The sheer number of rumors eminating from the White Sox alone would lead me to believe that there is fracturing within the organization.

Last night Lou Canallis (sp?) said that he interviewed Cooper - and Coops said he had no idea that Todd Ritchie was not starting on his regular turn date. Jerry Manuel said he really didn't know what was wrong with Ritchie and that the reporters would have to ask Herm Schnieder. The media may have some of the details wrong concerning the White Sox, but I think they're dead on when it comes to reporting the bigger picture.

Paulwny
08-07-2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Jerry Manuel said he really didn't know what was wrong with Ritchie and that the reporters would have to ask Herm Schnieder.


What the hell is this ??
Who the hell is running this damn zoo, when the manager doesn't know or possibly doesn't care about the condition of one of his players.
This entire organization is in shambles.

KingXerxes
08-07-2002, 12:47 PM
I agree.

Unless I totally mis-heard the Q&A playback twice, Manuel totally hedged when asked what was wrong with Todd Ritchie - and if Lou Cannellis (sp?) is to be believed, Cooper said flat out that he had no idea that Ritchie wa sitting.

Iwritecode
08-07-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny



What the hell is this ??
Who the hell is running this damn zoo, when the manager doesn't know or possibly doesn't care about the condition of one of his players.
This entire organization is in shambles.

Just remember, it's all the fault of us the fans...

:reinsy

Damn right!!!

Paulwny
08-07-2002, 12:57 PM
No wonder that Nardi's still on the payroll. KW's probably afraid of what Nardi might say to the press about what's really going on in the organization.

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
What the hell is this ??

Who the hell is running this damn zoo, when the manager doesn't know or possibly doesn't care about the condition of one of his players.

This entire organization is in shambles.

Williams is running it.

Poorly I should add.

Philzer
08-07-2002, 01:06 PM
Maybe the Chairman can bring in Jerry Krause to help KW fix the team.

Iguana775
08-07-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Philzer
Maybe the Chairman can bring in Jerry Krause to help KW fix the team.

i wouldnt be against it. couldnt do any worse than Lenny.

KingXerxes
08-07-2002, 01:51 PM
:hawk

"Hey Mister Reinsdorf.............I'll come back...........and I swear I'll cinch it up, hunker down, hang wiffem, strap it down, lock it in, and dial it up better than I did the last time. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease Mister Reinsdorf."

:reinsy

"We'll see Hawk.........by the way - it looks like you missed a spot over by the hood ornament."

voodoochile
08-07-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I agree.

Unless I totally mis-heard the Q&A playback twice, Manuel totally hedged when asked what was wrong with Todd Ritchie - and if Lou Cannellis (sp?) is to be believed, Cooper said flat out that he had no idea that Ritchie wa sitting.

There was an article in the Trib the other day that flat out said they didn't want the bad publicity that would accompany his "run at 20 losses". They feel it would become a self feeding story and would grow bigger and bigger as he approached the number (like the HR races of years past).

Nice to see the team is making decisions based on what is best for the players and what gives them the best chance to win and NOT on media driven stories and negative perceptions...

sheesh...

definitely time to clean house...

:selljerry

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Nice to see the team is making decisions based on what is best for the players and what gives them the best chance to win and NOT on media driven stories and negative perceptions...


This garbage started in spring training. When Williams told the players they have to overcome the negative media. He is paranoid over what they are going to say.

voodoochile
08-07-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


This garbage started in spring training. When Williams told the players they have to overcome the negative media. He is paranoid over what they are going to say.

Well, he has been getting ripped in the press recently, so his worst nightmares are coming true, and they are all his fault...

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Well, he has been getting ripped in the press recently, so his worst nightmares are coming true, and they are all his fault...

It's not going to get any better either. We know someone else from this coaching staff is going to be launched. Once that happens more information about Williams will come out.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2002, 03:25 PM
Does anyone else subscribe to the notion that all of the Sox's problems can be traced back to one incredibly incompetent person?

:KW

"You rang?"

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Does anyone else subscribe to the notion that all of the Sox's problems can be traced back to one incredibly incompetent person?

:KW

"You rang?"

Pretty close. I subscribe to the notion KW is responsible for everything that has gone wrong since October, 2000. For the bigger picture (21 years worth), I still blame this guy:

:reinsy
"We're gonna make the Sox a first-class organization..."

RKMeibalane
08-07-2002, 03:43 PM
-This garbage started in spring training. When Williams told the players they have to overcome the negative media. He is paranoid over what they are going to say.

-Well, he has been getting ripped in the press recently, so his worst nightmares are coming true, and they are all his fault...

If Reinsdorf had any sense, he would impose a "gag" order on Kenny Williams. Every time that goof opens his mouth, something bad happens. I'm tired of him behaving like a snake in the grass, telling people one thing and then doing the opposite. His hypocritical behavior is destroying this team. The days of tipping over buffet tables and holding secret meetings need to end- NOW!

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The days of tipping over buffet tables and holding secret meetings need to end- NOW!

Sadly, this is just the beginning.

What do you think is going to happen when Manuel is gone? When Williams brings in someone who will do what he wants them to.

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Gary Pettis, very pro-Kenny, has been said to be KW's spy in the clubhouse.

Supposedly, in a tounge and cheek type thing the players had a little bet on the side saying that Pettis would be the manager of the team.

MisterB
08-07-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Supposedly, in a tounge and cheek type thing the players had a little bet on the side saying that Pettis would be the manager of the team.

For your consideration...

Some of Kenny Williams' teammates from his playing days:

Gary Pettis - DET '89
Gary Ward - DET '89-'90
Daryl Boston - CWS '86-'88

Looks like Kenny's trying to load the staff with his ol' buddies to me...

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Some of Kenny Williams' teammates from his playing days:

Gary Pettis - DET '89
Gary Ward - DET '89-'90
Daryl Boston - CWS '86-'88

Looks like Kenny's trying to load the staff with his ol' buddies to me...

Oh yeah.

He's trying to fill his staff with yes men. Guys who won't bash him in the media.

TornLabrum
08-07-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by MisterB


For your consideration...

Some of Kenny Williams' teammates from his playing days:

Gary Pettis - DET '89
Gary Ward - DET '89-'90
Daryl Boston - CWS '86-'88

Looks like Kenny's trying to load the staff with his ol' buddies to me...

Add to that that Razor Shines (Winston-Salem) is an old family friend.

:KW

"Hey! If you can't help out your buds, who can you help out?"

34 Inch Stick
08-07-2002, 05:52 PM
Okay, we can blame Kenny for October 2000 to the present and Jerry for the last 21 years. Who do we blame for the last century? I think we all know the answer to that....THE MASONS. Always trying to screw up history.

LongDistanceFan
08-07-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
WSCR was saying this morning that Kenny Williams' "guy" is Daryl Boston - who has already alienated several people down at the Triple A level with his attitude.

This could become an absolute comedy before it gets straightened out. should the triple A team being doing better?

there are changes that needs to be done and i wonder if KW is going to do the right thing?

Jerry_Manuel
08-07-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
should the triple A team being doing better?

there are changes that needs to be done and i wonder if KW is going to do the right thing?

What was said about Boston was that he is getting lazy and isn't really trying. The reason given was because he thinks he has a job waiting for him with the Sox.

No, he won't.

LongDistanceFan
08-07-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


What was said about Boston was that he is getting lazy and isn't really trying. The reason given was because he thinks he has a job waiting for him with the Sox.

No, he won't.

i wonder if JR has heard this.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


i wonder if JR has heard this.

He probably has, but doesn't want to do anything about it. I'm sure he thinks we are somehow responsible for this whole mess because we don't go to games often enough.

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, I will get rid of Ken Williams."

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by MisterB


For your consideration...

Some of Kenny Williams' teammates from his playing days:

Gary Pettis - DET '89
Gary Ward - DET '89-'90
Daryl Boston - CWS '86-'88

Looks like Kenny's trying to load the staff with his ol' buddies to me...

You know what is really scary about this? These were some of the worst Sox and Tigers teams of the decade. I had forgotten Lenny was teammates with Pettis and Ward in Detroit. Daryl Boston flat-out sucked for the Sox--same as Williams.

I'm truly depressed to think the Chairman will allow this collection of Kenny's fools run things.

Paulwny
08-08-2002, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Daryl Boston flat-out sucked for the Sox--same as Williams.



Daryl Boston gifted athlete, no desire
He'll fit right in.

RKMeibalane
08-08-2002, 03:01 PM
I'm sure Williams would love to add Darryl Boston to the Sox coaching staff next season. His collection of "yes men" would give him even more power than he already has. Think about it. If Mark Buehrle complained about his contract, Williams could have Boston demote him to the bullpen. As crazy as that sounds, I would not put it past the incompetent KW.

RKMeibalane
08-08-2002, 03:06 PM
...does anyone think that this polarization also exists amongst the players? I'm sure there are more than a few who would like to see Manuel gone after this season. On the other side of the coin, there are others wouldn't mind if Ken Williams got axed and a more flexible and baseball-savvy GM were brought in.

My question to the rest of you is, which players do you think support Williams, which ones are neutral, and which ones support Jerry Manuel?

RedPinStripes
08-08-2002, 03:29 PM
Daryl Boston? LOL!

We can have a whole front office and bench of 80's white sox flops who worship Uncle Jerry. This organization makes me sick!

:chunks

Dadawg_77
08-08-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by MisterB


For your consideration...

Some of Kenny Williams' teammates from his playing days:

Gary Pettis - DET '89
Gary Ward - DET '89-'90
Daryl Boston - CWS '86-'88

Looks like Kenny's trying to load the staff with his ol' buddies to me...

Stuff like this has always happen in pro sports, guys bringing in their friends.

Iwritecode
08-08-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
...does anyone think that this polarization also exists amongst the players? I'm sure there are more than a few who would like to see Manuel gone after this season. On the other side of the coin, there are others wouldn't mind if Ken Williams got axed and a more flexible and baseball-savvy GM were brought in.

My question to the rest of you is, which players do you think support Williams, which ones are neutral, and which ones support Jerry Manuel?

That's really hard to tell because a lot depends on the personality of the player and interaction that has gone on behind closed doors that we never hear about. Anyway, here's my guesses:

Caballo: They keep him in left field despite his defensive short comings because of his potential bat. Juggled around the lineup quite a bit. I'd say either neutral or positive.

Aaron Rowand: Really depends on whether he takes offense on not being considerd an everyday starter. Could go any which way.

Maggs: I believe they locked him up long term with no problems. Considered a cornerstone of the future. Definitely positive.

Thomas: Hmm, has had a number of problems with managment. I don't think he'd mind if Jerry or Kenny left before he does. Against.

Paulie Walnuts: Been a solid contributor both on offense and defense. No problems with managment that I've heard about. Neutral

Willie Harris: Hasn't really been here long enough to form much of an opinion. Went from a bad Baltimore team to an underachieving Sox team. Neutral

Royce Clayton: Probably knows that he's not wanted but yet keeps getting trotted out there almost everyday while making a pretty decent salary. As long as Jerry continues to buy him ice cream, I'd say he's pro-Jerry and pro-Kenny

Jose Valentin: Sox picked him up when BrewCrew no longer wanted him. Played a big part on the 2000 team and is a good leader. Plays hard no matter what position he's asked to play. No problems with management that I've heard of. Either neutral or support them.

Joe Crede: Been kept in the minors forever because of the "defensive specialist" at short. Could have a chip on his shoulder because of that. Either neutral or against them.

Mark Johnson: Been backup or starter depending on who the second catcher is. Left of the 2000 post-season roster for Mr. Versatle. Either neutral or against them.

Josh Paul: Up and down between minors and majors. Doesn't seem to know or care that he sucks. Managment continues to have faith in him though. Positive

Graffy: Typical utility player. Does his job quietly with no problems. Either neutral or positive.

Liefer: Wants to start but they don't think he's good enough. Said he wouldn't say no to a trade. Against.

Pitching staff: The only ones I see that would be against management would be Foulke or Glover. Everyone else managment seems to have confidence in (cept Ritchie but even he knows he sucks this year) and treat decently. A few guys may be in and out of the rotation or not have certain set roles but I don't think that's unusual.

Dan H
08-09-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
According to the Score's Dan Bernstein, polarization has occurred within the coaching staff of the White Sox. Supposedly, there is a division of "pro-Kenny guys" and a division of "anti-Kenny guys." It is not said which side Jerry Manuel is on. Gary Pettis, very pro-Kenny, has been said to be KW's spy in the clubhouse. Also, Daryl Boston (pro-Kenny) is in line to replace Wallace Johnson.

Furthermore, Bernstein said that KW resented Jerry Reinsdorf bringing in Roland Hemond to provide guidence. KW has basically rebuffed this effort. And Williams continues to be paranoid at any media criticism. Now while there is certainly a lot of legitimate criticism of the media's coverage of our team, KW is beyond rational in blaming the media for everything that has gone wrong.

This man must go.


What I find puzzling about this is that Ken Williams stated at Sox Fest 2001 was that he was the one who wanted to bring Hemond aboard, that he wasn't worried about his ego, and that he went to Reinsdorf before contacting the Diamondbacks for permission to talk to Hemond. Was this just PR talk?

I interviewed Hemond for my book and found him very cordial and non-threatening. Other people who know Hemond speak very highly of him. I couldn't see Williams feeling threatened by him. But then again I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I have no idea of Williams and Hemond get along.