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View Full Version : Big Changes Coming to MLB's Use of Instant Replay


Chez
08-15-2013, 01:09 PM
I guess the most important thing is to "get it right," but this is (IMO) pretty extreme.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/08/15/mlb-instant-replay-manager-challenges-on-hold/2659555/

FielderJones
08-15-2013, 01:30 PM
I guess the most important thing is to "get it right," but this is (IMO) pretty extreme.

Not at all. There is such a thing as objective reality. No reason to have fallible human perception in a split-second deciding game outcomes when the technology is there to get it right.

Once Bud and his regime of Luddites is out of the picture and the electronic strike zone is established, I'll be a happy camper.

Irishsox1
08-15-2013, 02:57 PM
3 is too many chances. It should be 1 and if you get it correct you keep it. Make it part of the strategy of the game.

Too many instant replays can ruin the flow of game. College football's instant replay is a total mess. The refs refuse to make a call and replay way to many calls.

doublem23
08-15-2013, 04:57 PM
I'm a huge supporter of IR in baseball but this is so ridiculous. Why add all this unnecessary drama and time? Add a 5th umpire to the crew, let him sit in the pressbox with an HDTV and access to the video feeds for the game. In probably 99% of all cases, that guy could probably tell if the call on the field was right or not within a matter of seconds.

****ing baseball.

SoxFanCPA
08-15-2013, 04:59 PM
3 is too many chances. It should be 1 and if you get it correct you keep it. Make it part of the strategy of the game.

Too many instant replays can ruin the flow of game. College football's instant replay is a total mess. The refs refuse to make a call and replay way to many calls.

Make it part of the strategy? How about we just get all the calls right? There should be no strategy regarding blown calls.

SoxFanCPA
08-15-2013, 04:59 PM
I'm a huge supporter of IR in baseball but this is so ridiculous. Why add all this unnecessary drama and time? Add a 5th umpire to the crew, let him sit in the pressbox with an HDTV and access to the video feeds for the game. In probably 99% of all cases, that guy could probably tell if the call on the field was right or not within a matter of seconds.

****ing baseball.

This.

doublem23
08-15-2013, 05:03 PM
Make it part of the strategy? How about we just get all the calls right? There should be no strategy regarding blown calls.

Seriously, trying to solve the problem of the human element with ADDING MORE HUMAN ELEMENT is like trying to put out a grease fire with a blow torch.

WLL1855
08-15-2013, 06:53 PM
I enjoyed Ian Desmond's quip about it. Something along the lines of if the brakes of the car are bad you don't get better airbags for the car. You fix the brakes.

LITTLE NELL
08-15-2013, 08:10 PM
All kinds of scenarios are going to come into play and most of them bad.
This should have been done a very little at a time. Just heard former umpire Jim McKean on the Rays game and at first he said it was good but as the interview continued he brought up all different kinds of stuff that could happen especially when there are runners on base. Also said that gamesmenship could come into play.

TDog
08-15-2013, 09:41 PM
Any system that requires challenges is not a fair system. It really isn't instant replay. It is just something to shut up fans demanding instant replay.

WLL1855
08-16-2013, 02:04 AM
Any system that requires challenges is not a fair system. It really isn't instant replay. It is just something to shut up fans demanding instant replay.

Well said.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-16-2013, 05:53 AM
Baseball is live, unrehearsed entertainment. The umps are part of the game. The technology of IR has nothing to do with the game itself. Leave the damn game alone, and let it proceed with all of it's human characteristics, including mistakes by all parties involved in the game.

SoxFanCPA
08-16-2013, 08:00 AM
Baseball is live, unrehearsed entertainment. The umps are part of the game. The technology of IR has nothing to do with the game itself. Leave the damn game alone, and let it proceed with all of it's human characteristics, including mistakes by all parties involved in the game.

This opinion is so absolutely ridiculous. Why would you want mistakes?

Moses_Scurry
08-16-2013, 08:58 AM
My question:

Let's say Alexei Ramirez hits a scorching drive down the third base line. The umpire immediately signals foul ball. Alexei trots back to the dugout. The play gets challenged, and it becomes apparent that the ball should have been called fair and the call is reversed. What happens? Does Ramirez get first base? Second base? Does he have to run out of the dugout to first before the pitcher can get the ball to the first baseman? If he never touches first, can the manager of the opposing team challenge so they can try to get him out at first?

There are so many instances where the play stops because of a call and you have no idea what would have happened after the play with the opposite call.

De Aza is on 2nd. Viciedo hits a drive to center. The centerfielder traps the ball, but it is ruled a catch. It's not deep enough for De Aza to tag to 3rd, but he is leading off far enough that he could easily make third if there is no catch. The play is challenged and overturned. Does De Aza get to go to 3rd?

doublem23
08-16-2013, 08:58 AM
Any system that requires challenges is not a fair system. It really isn't instant replay. It is just something to shut up fans demanding instant replay.

Any advancement of IR in the sport is a move in the positive direction, but I agree that this is woefully short-ended. It essentially keeps the onus of checking on umpires in the hands of team's personnel instead of (as it should be) on MLB and the umps.

It's a shame, too, as MLB could have really moved to the forefront of embracing modern technology and instead, seems content to play second fiddle to the NFL, which is ironic in that the NFL is moving away from it's original IR policy now that the league mandates all scoring and turnover plays be reviewed automatically.

Perhaps one day down the line, we'll look at this step as a positive move in MLB's eventual usage of full IR capabilities, but today, it looks like a stinker than no one likes; traditionalists hate how much this will encroach on the game and modernists shake their head at how backward it is. Somehow MLB continues to plot a course for the future and take no steps forward.

EMachine10
08-16-2013, 09:06 AM
My question:

Let's say Alexei Ramirez hits a scorching drive down the third base line. The umpire immediately signals foul ball. Alexei trots back to the dugout. The play gets challenged, and it becomes apparent that the ball should have been called fair and the call is reversed. What happens? Does Ramirez get first base? Second base? Does he have to run out of the dugout to first before the pitcher can get the ball to the first baseman? If he never touches first, can the manager of the opposing team challenge so they can try to get him out at first?

There are so many instances where the play stops because of a call and you have no idea what would have happened after the play with the opposite call.

De Aza is on 2nd. Viciedo hits a drive to center. The centerfielder traps the ball, but it is ruled a catch. It's not deep enough for De Aza to tag to 3rd, but he is leading off far enough that he could easily make third if there is no catch. The play is challenged and overturned. Does De Aza get to go to 3rd?
Did he bunt it foul? Why is he going back to the dugout? I understand your premise, but maybe he should be trotting back to the batter's box?

Irishsox1
08-16-2013, 11:00 AM
I'm in favor of umps just getting it right the first time. That is always the goal. But with 3 instant replay chances the ump can get it right or wrong but it doesn't matter because replay will "correct it".

In college football the refs have stopped making calls on the field because instant replay will make the call and it's destroyed the flow of the game and to make things worse the views the replay officials are getting are worse than the ref on the field. Too many correct calls are being overturned and too many incorrect calls are being upheld.

What some fans don't understand is that blown calls are part of the game and the debate and whining afterwards is what makes the sports interesting.

SoxFanCPA
08-16-2013, 11:57 AM
My question:

Let's say Alexei Ramirez hits a scorching drive down the third base line. The umpire immediately signals foul ball. Alexei trots back to the dugout. The play gets challenged, and it becomes apparent that the ball should have been called fair and the call is reversed. What happens? Does Ramirez get first base? Second base? Does he have to run out of the dugout to first before the pitcher can get the ball to the first baseman? If he never touches first, can the manager of the opposing team challenge so they can try to get him out at first?

There are so many instances where the play stops because of a call and you have no idea what would have happened after the play with the opposite call.

De Aza is on 2nd. Viciedo hits a drive to center. The centerfielder traps the ball, but it is ruled a catch. It's not deep enough for De Aza to tag to 3rd, but he is leading off far enough that he could easily make third if there is no catch. The play is challenged and overturned. Does De Aza get to go to 3rd?

He shouldn't have to continue hitting when he earned a ****ing hit, that's for damn sure. I'm so tired of the arguments about not fixing the past because we can't see the future.

Your scenarios will come down to umpire judgment. Just like in the case of fan interference, they will have to place the runners at the bases they think are appropriate. But that makes way more sense then allowing the incorrect call to stand.

Moses_Scurry
08-16-2013, 01:37 PM
He shouldn't have to continue hitting when he earned a ****ing hit, that's for damn sure. I'm so tired of the arguments about not fixing the past because we can't see the future.

Your scenarios will come down to umpire judgment. Just like in the case of fan interference, they will have to place the runners at the bases they think are appropriate. But that makes way more sense then allowing the incorrect call to stand.

Oh I'm completely for using instant replay. I just would like to know how they will address those plays. Maybe Alexei would have been thrown out going to second in my situation.

Moses_Scurry
08-16-2013, 01:38 PM
Did he bunt it foul? Why is he going back to the dugout? I understand your premise, but maybe he should be trotting back to the batter's box?

your right, my mistake. Question still stands though.

kufram
08-16-2013, 01:41 PM
I'm a traditionalist in some ways, but ultimately the important thing is that the calls are right, not who makes them.

I like the idea of managers making challenges and there being a restrictive limit. I would have just said 2 challenges because no good manager is going to use one too early, but whatever number of challenges they'd decided on would be unpopular. It can be adjusted. It might have been wise to try all of this out at minor league level for a year or two.

It is inexcusable that MLB is 5-6 years behind Wimbledon (by far one of the most traditionally thinking organizations) and Cricket... a sport with plenty of time on hand... at least at Test match level. In the case of Wimbledon yes, gamesmanship takes place and some time is wasted but everyone accepts that the call is corrected if necessary and that is the most important thing. It's worth it.

The important thing to recognize here is that the Rubicon has been crossed and there will be no going back. That is significant.

In my mind we are not very far from umpires all having handheld devices that they can consult themselves almost instantaneously. The umpires should be leading this development because it's coming with or without them.

It is ludicrous to have situation where the entire world knows within seconds that a call is wrong but it is allowed to stand irregardless. It's fixable, so fix it.

Vernam
08-16-2013, 01:54 PM
I'd like to reserve judgment but am inwardly convinced this will be the end of baseball -- and therefore the world -- as we know it. The only bit of doubt in my mind is because this viewpoint is shared by Phil Rogers, whose head has been up his ass for years now.

Hyperbolically,

Vernam

thomas35forever
08-16-2013, 02:04 PM
I'm happy to see baseball finally take some action in expanding replay, but I echo the sentiments that say three chances is too much. If they want to disrupt the flow of the game as little as possible, give no more than two, just like in the NFL.

SouthSideMike
08-16-2013, 02:12 PM
The very definition of two steps forward, one step back, except maybe only a half step forward in reality. The Selig regime continues to blow every opportunity to genuinely improve this sport

eastchicagosoxfan
08-16-2013, 07:57 PM
This opinion is so absolutely ridiculous. Why would you want mistakes?

Pitchers make mistakes. Hitters make mistakes. Managers make mistakes. Umps make mistakes. They're all part of the game.

SoxFanCPA
08-16-2013, 10:30 PM
Pitchers make mistakes. Hitters make mistakes. Managers make mistakes. Umps make mistakes. They're all part of the game.

It's team A vs team B. The umpires are not part of the game.

WLL1855
08-16-2013, 11:42 PM
It's team A vs team B. The umpires are not part of the game.

Then why are the umpires there, eh?

cub killer
08-17-2013, 04:16 AM
Oh I'm completely for using instant replay. I just would like to know how they will address those plays. Maybe Alexei would have been thrown out going to second in my situation.
I say they should only allow the minimum if the call is overturned. So for your Alexei example, he would get 1st, and that's it. No speculating on how far he'd have gotten if it was fair. That's kinda foolish, sandlotish. So it's up to the manager to challenge it if he feels Alexei won't get an extra base it if he gets more swings.

To summarize:

1. Alexei hits a foul ball down the LF line where the LFielder slips and comes no where near it. The foul ball ruling is challenged, then overturned. Ruling- SINGLE.

2. Runner on 3rd, 0 out. A hitter hits a line drive trapped by the center fielder, ruled a catch, leaving him down long enough for the runner to tag and score. The manager challenges the out call, and it is overturned. Ruling- SINGLE, RUNNER REMAINS ON 3RD. Still 0 out.

3. Runners on 1st and 2nd. A ground ball is hit to the 2nd baseman, he throws to 1st, runner is out. On the throw, runners advance, then the 1st baseman throws to 3rd to get the runner there. The 3rd baseman misses it, causing both runners to score.

Manager challenges the out call, and it is overturned. Ruling- SAFE AT 1ST, BASES NOW LOADED.

Then why are the umpires there, eh?To make sure it is Team A vs Team B without any umpiring bias.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-17-2013, 07:09 AM
It's team A vs team B. The umpires are not part of the game.

The game is live, and the umps have a job to do. They call it like they see it as it happens. It's sort of like performing without a net. I don't see the need to stop the game to determine if an umpire's call was accurate. The human element, as it's offered to, includes the umpires as much as it includes the players. I know I'm in a minority, perhaps of just one, but I just don't see the need for that much scrutiny for an entertainment event.

doublem23
08-17-2013, 07:53 AM
The game is live, and the umps have a job to do. They call it like they see it as it happens. It's sort of like performing without a net. I don't see the need to stop the game to determine if an umpire's call was accurate. The human element, as it's offered to, includes the umpires as much as it includes the players. I know I'm in a minority, perhaps of just one, but I just don't see the need for that much scrutiny for an entertainment event.

The entertainment I'm paying for is to see two teams of some of the best baseball players in the world play the game that I love. I'm there to see Chris Sale pitch, Adam Dunn crush a 500-foot homer, etc., I'm not there to see Joe West call balls and strikes or Angel Hernandez ump over at 1st base. Their job is to stay hidden as much as possible and to get the calls right so the game has some semblance of of legitimacy.

I agree that this system is pretty silly, but I don't see why anyone would actively want the league to ignore technological advancements that would make the sport better.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-17-2013, 09:09 AM
The entertainment I'm paying for is to see two teams of some of the best baseball players in the world play the game that I love. I'm there to see Chris Sale pitch, Adam Dunn crush a 500-foot homer, etc., I'm not there to see Joe West call balls and strikes or Angel Hernandez ump over at 1st base. Their job is to stay hidden as much as possible and to get the calls right so the game has some semblance of of legitimacy.

I agree that this system is pretty silly, but I don't see why anyone would actively want the league to ignore technological advancements that would make the sport better.
I completely agree that you're there to see the players, and not notice the umps.
I understand that the technology of gloves, shoes, etc. for the players has advanced, but I'm perfectly okay with the umpire's eyes and reflexes being the primary tools of his trade. I know I probably come off as a Luddite to some, and who knows what to others.

I remember the Don Majkowski play quite well. The ref blew the call. As a fan, life goes on. I was only an observer to the event, I was hardly involved.
I guess if the players, owners, and umpires want the replay, they'll get it. They're the ones involved in the events.

SoxFanCPA
08-17-2013, 09:25 AM
Then why are the umpires there, eh?

Then why are the fans there? And the security guards. And the pyrotechnic specialists.

SoxFanCPA
08-17-2013, 09:28 AM
I say they should only allow the minimum if the call is overturned. So for your Alexei example, he would get 1st, and that's it. No speculating on how far he'd have gotten if it was fair. That's kinda foolish, sandlotish. So it's up to the manager to challenge it if he feels Alexei won't get an extra base it if he gets more swings.

To summarize:

1. Alexei hits a foul ball down the LF line where the LFielder slips and comes no where near it. The foul ball ruling is challenged, then overturned. Ruling- SINGLE.

2. Runner on 3rd, 0 out. A hitter hits a line drive trapped by the center fielder, ruled a catch, leaving him down long enough for the runner to tag and score. The manager challenges the out call, and it is overturned. Ruling- SINGLE, RUNNER REMAINS ON 3RD. Still 0 out.

3. Runners on 1st and 2nd. A ground ball is hit to the 2nd baseman, he throws to 1st, runner is out. On the throw, runners advance, then the 1st baseman throws to 3rd to get the runner there. The 3rd baseman misses it, causing both runners to score.

Manager challenges the out call, and it is overturned. Ruling- SAFE AT 1ST, BASES NOW LOADED.

I completely disagree with this entire post. A player tags up and scores on a trapped ball, but has to go back to 3rd if the play is ruled a hit? That makes zero sense.

Tragg
08-17-2013, 10:32 AM
I don't know why they need these challenge flags...that just adds to the delay (it is ridiculous in the NFL). Just have a guy in the booth watching the plays. HE can signal to stop play if he needs to look at something twice.
And to the managers get full replays in the dugout - or will they put a coach in the pressbox on a TV monitor. YOu can't count on these stadium screens...I was at Safeco last week, and sometimes they show the replay, and sometimes they don't.

cub killer
08-17-2013, 04:15 PM
I completely disagree with this entire post. A player tags up and scores on a trapped ball, but has to go back to 3rd if the play is ruled a hit? That makes zero sense.
It makes sense because the out is nullified, therefore anything that happened after it is also nullified. Runner goes back to 3rd.

SoxFanCPA
08-18-2013, 11:11 AM
It makes sense because the out is nullified, therefore anything that happened after it is also nullified. Runner goes back to 3rd.
So if the bases were loaded?

cub killer
08-18-2013, 07:32 PM
So if the bases were loaded?

1 run scores.

SoxFanCPA
08-18-2013, 07:58 PM
1 run scores.
So if he tags up, he can only score if the bases were loaded. No ****ing way.

cub killer
08-19-2013, 10:14 PM
So if he tags up, he can only score if the bases were loaded. No ****ing way.
Well, letting umpires speculate on what would have happened if the right call was made, creates a slippery slope. Any manager can then argue otherwise, because now we're talking about a hypothetical situation. So your way can cause all types of chaos.

My way, there is a set rule which only allows the minimum benefit to the team that gets a called overturned. No arguments.