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sunofgold
08-08-2013, 12:25 PM
I believe that we have bounced from our bottom. it is all rising now. I think that we can catch Minny for fourth place. We really are better than them. Hey, 4th is better than last. Have 11 more games H2H.

Rocky Soprano
08-08-2013, 12:31 PM
I believe that we have bounced from our bottom. it is all rising now. I think that we can catch Minny for fourth place. We really are better than them. Hey, 4th is better than last. Have 11 more games H2H.

I'd rather they end up last and get a better draft pick.
Who cares about 4th place. That's nothing to cheer about.

Domeshot17
08-08-2013, 12:33 PM
I'd rather they end up last and get a better draft pick.
Who cares about 4th place. That's nothing to cheer about.

This. I actually think the worst thing we can do is a late season rally. Then Rick will have the excuse to not improve the team that will be forced on him by Kenny and Jerry.

He is my favorite all time White Sox player next to Frank, but if we resign PK and go forward with this "Lets give them another shot to win 86 games and sneak into the playoffs only to be swept" approach, I may not be able to watch a game all year .

Boondock Saint
08-08-2013, 12:43 PM
Nobody looks back on 2007 and thinks, "**** yeah, we were three games better than the Royals!", and we shouldn't think that way about this year.

soltrain21
08-08-2013, 12:56 PM
This team would play well at the end of the year to screw their draft position. Completely solidifying themselves as everyone's least favorite White Sox team.

LITTLE NELL
08-08-2013, 01:08 PM
I was sort of thinking along the same lines the other day. How do you motivate a team that was 29 games under .500. I would say to the guys the ''second season'' starts today and our goal right now is to not finish last and while we are at it lets not have the worst record of the teams in Chicago. The opposite part of the equation is that these guys are professionals and are making more money in one year than most people will make in a lifetime and that they should still have some pride and that is all the motivation they need.
As a fan I don't ever want to see a White Sox team wind up in last place or have the worst record, I don't need any more 1970 seasons, one was enough. You might get the #1 pick which could turn out to be a dud.
Maybe Robin said all this to the guys the other day and so far, so good as we are off to a 3 game winning streak to start the ''second season.''

24thStFan
08-08-2013, 01:12 PM
Given the current roster and since they aren't making the playoffs, the Sox need to have a top 5 draft pick.

kobo
08-08-2013, 01:18 PM
I'd rather they end up last and get a better draft pick.
Who cares about 4th place. That's nothing to cheer about.
Ditto.

Rocky Soprano
08-08-2013, 01:19 PM
I was sort of thinking along the same lines the other day. How do you motivate a team that was 29 games under .500. I would say to the guys the ''second season'' starts today and our goal right now is to not finish last and while we are at it lets not have the worst record of the teams in Chicago. The opposite part of the equation is that these guys are professionals and are making more money in one year than most people will make in a lifetime and that they should still have some pride and that is all the motivation they need.
As a fan I don't ever want to see a White Sox team wind up in last place or have the worst record, I don't need any more 1970 seasons, one was enough. You might get the #1 pick which could turn out to be a dud.
Maybe Robin said all this to the guys the other day and so far, so good as we are off to a 3 game winning streak to start the ''second season.''

I understand your argument and agree with a lot of it. The thing is, this team is not making the playoffs this year. So we need to stop thinking about this year and start thinking about the future. Finishing with the worst record helps us in the future. This team heating up and winning a few more meaningless games does not. Now I am not saying they should lose on purpose or that they shouldn't give it their all. Yes, the #1 pick could end up being a dud but it could also end up being our next superstar. I would rather they get the best possible chance to land an impact player than winning a few more games and end up thus minimizing that opportunity.

doublem23
08-08-2013, 01:33 PM
Nobody looks back on 2007 and thinks, "**** yeah, we were three games better than the Royals!", and we shouldn't think that way about this year.

Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.

LITTLE NELL
08-08-2013, 01:49 PM
Draft picks in baseball are probably more of a crap-shoot than any other of the other major sports, we could end up with another Harold Baines or another Bee Bee Richard, and then there was Mark Buerhle who was a 38th round draft choice.

JB98
08-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.

Yeah, I don't understand this obsession with trying to get the best draft pick possible. This isn't basketball or football. The baseball draft is a complete crapshoot.

Mike Trout, the best young player in the game IMO, was selected 25th overall his draft year. Chris Sale, the best young player on our club, was selected 13th overall in 2010. You don't have to be drafting in the top 10 to get a good player, and even if the Sox get the No. 1 overall pick, they are hardly guaranteed of getting a future All-Star. In addition to scouting and development, there's a degree of luck involved.

I also don't understand this fear that a late-season winning streak will cause Hahn to deviate from his plan. First of all, I don't think a late-season winning streak is forthcoming. The team is bad. You see it. I see it. So does the front office. Secondly, the die is cast. They've already traded Peavy, and I'm sure they'll try to make a move with Rios and/or Dunn -- either before Sept. 1 or during the offseason. They would not have traded Jake if they were thinking of bringing the band back for one more run next year. That isn't going to happen.

As for the remaining 50 games of this season, I'm with the OP. Win as many as you can and try to get out of last place. Other than individual pursuits, there isn't a lot for the guys on the Sox roster to play for right now. They already know they aren't going to the playoffs. One of the things they can do to keep themselves mentally engaged in the season is say, "Hey, let's try to catch the team in front of us." Does it mean anything? Not really, but setting a goal like that is a way to keep guys playing hard at the end of a lost season. I'm all for that. I love to win and hate to lose. I have no patience for people who root against their own team to secure a better draft pick. Maybe that's why I'm not a big NFL or NBA fan. That mentality sucks, IMO. It's especially fruitless to do that when you know a higher draft pick doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

LITTLE NELL
08-08-2013, 02:16 PM
Yeah, I don't understand this obsession with trying to get the best draft pick possible. This isn't basketball or football. The baseball draft is a complete crapshoot.

Mike Trout, the best young player in the game IMO, was selected 25th overall his draft year. Chris Sale, the best young player on our club, was selected 13th overall in 2010. You don't have to be drafting in the top 10 to get a good player, and even if the Sox get the No. 1 overall pick, they are hardly guaranteed of getting a future All-Star. In addition to scouting and development, there's a degree of luck involved.

I also don't understand this fear that a late-season winning streak will cause Hahn to deviate from his plan. First of all, I don't think a late-season winning streak is forthcoming. The team is bad. You see it. I see it. So does the front office. Secondly, the die is cast. They've already traded Peavy, and I'm sure they'll try to make a move with Rios and/or Dunn -- either before Sept. 1 or during the offseason. They would not have traded Jake if they were thinking of bringing the band back for one more run next year. That isn't going to happen.

As for the remaining 50 games of this season, I'm with the OP. Win as many as you can and try to get out of last place. Other than individual pursuits, there isn't a lot for the guys on the Sox roster to play for right now. They already know they aren't going to the playoffs. One of the things they can do to keep themselves mentally engaged in the season is say, "Hey, let's try to catch the team in front of us." Does it mean anything? Not really, but setting a goal like
that is a way to keep guys playing hard at the end of a lost season. I'm all for that. I love to win and hate to lose. I have no patience for people who root against their own team to secure a better draft pick. Maybe that's why I'm not a big NFL or NBA fan. That mentality sucks, IMO. It's especially fruitless to do that when you know a higher draft pick doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

:thumbsup:

Boondock Saint
08-08-2013, 02:21 PM
Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.

You can't pick guys who've already been drafted, so while it's more of a crapshoot, you want to have a deeper pool to choose from. Take 2007 as an example. If the Sox had just lost just two more games in 2007, they would have been in position to draft Buster Posey. That's not to say they would have drafted him, but it's a bit of a kick in the pants to think that two meaningless wins might have been the difference between drafting Gordon Beckham at #7 and drafting Buster Posey at #5.

DumpJerry
08-08-2013, 02:24 PM
Yeah, let's catch up and pass Minnesota. We need another Fourth Place banner to go with the others on the outfield wall.......

ChiSoxGal85
08-08-2013, 02:26 PM
Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.
This. It's a couple of draft positions. IMO, it's a small price to pay for not suffering through another 10-game losing streak, or worse.

DumpJerry
08-08-2013, 02:31 PM
You can't pick guys who've already been drafted, so while it's more of a crapshoot, you want to have a deeper pool to choose from. Take 2007 as an example. If the Sox had just lost just two more games in 2007, they would have been in position to draft Buster Posey. That's not to say they would have drafted him, but it's a bit of a kick in the pants to think that two meaningless wins might have been the difference between drafting Gordon Beckham at #7 and drafting Buster Posey at #5.
The first pick overall in that draft, Tim Beckham, has yet to see The Show.

Of the six guys picked ahead of Gordon that year who have been in The Show (everyone except Tim Beckham), Gordon has the second highest WAR after Posey. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=year_round&year_ID=2008&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&)It's a distant second, of course.

amsteel
08-08-2013, 02:35 PM
I was wondering what arbitrary goal people were going to attach themselves to this year the way getting over 0.500 was last year.

Figured it would be avoiding 100 Ls, but this will do.

Boondock Saint
08-08-2013, 02:37 PM
The first pick overall in that draft, Tim Beckham, has yet to see The Show.

Of the six guys picked ahead of Gordon that year who have been in The Show (everyone except Tim Beckham), Gordon has the second highest WAR after Posey. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=year_round&year_ID=2008&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&)It's a distant second, of course.


I get that, but a few wins means nothing in comparison to a better opportunity to draft a potential future building block for the future.

DumpJerry
08-08-2013, 02:44 PM
I get that, but a few wins means nothing in comparison to a better opportunity to draft a potential future building block for the future.
It is much more difficult in baseball to spot that "can't miss" kid. The pool is very large with high school and any college player, not just seniors. The NBA and NFL are able to focus on about two dozen major college programs to find a dozen or so "can't miss" prospects for the draft (every now and then there is a LaBron in high school, but that is very rare). Also the concept of player development is very different in the NBA and NFL. The NHL has more of a MLB approach since they have minor league teams and development squads that practice with the big boys.

You just don't hear about big name kids leading up to the MLB draft like you do with the NBA and NFL. Even the top pick gets a blank response except from those who read all the scouting reports and follow the high school and college games.....

Soxman219
08-08-2013, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I don't understand this obsession with trying to get the best draft pick possible. This isn't basketball or football. The baseball draft is a complete crapshoot.

Mike Trout, the best young player in the game IMO, was selected 25th overall his draft year. Chris Sale, the best young player on our club, was selected 13th overall in 2010. You don't have to be drafting in the top 10 to get a good player, and even if the Sox get the No. 1 overall pick, they are hardly guaranteed of getting a future All-Star. In addition to scouting and development, there's a degree of luck involved.

I also don't understand this fear that a late-season winning streak will cause Hahn to deviate from his plan. First of all, I don't think a late-season winning streak is forthcoming. The team is bad. You see it. I see it. So does the front office. Secondly, the die is cast. They've already traded Peavy, and I'm sure they'll try to make a move with Rios and/or Dunn -- either before Sept. 1 or during the offseason. They would not have traded Jake if they were thinking of bringing the band back for one more run next year. That isn't going to happen.

As for the remaining 50 games of this season, I'm with the OP. Win as many as you can and try to get out of last place. Other than individual pursuits, there isn't a lot for the guys on the Sox roster to play for right now. They already know they aren't going to the playoffs. One of the things they can do to keep themselves mentally engaged in the season is say, "Hey, let's try to catch the team in front of us." Does it mean anything? Not really, but setting a goal like that is a way to keep guys playing hard at the end of a lost season. I'm all for that. I love to win and hate to lose. I have no patience for people who root against their own team to secure a better draft pick. Maybe that's why I'm not a big NFL or NBA fan. That mentality sucks, IMO. It's especially fruitless to do that when you know a higher draft pick doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

:clap:

doublem23
08-08-2013, 04:07 PM
I get that, but a few wins means nothing in comparison to a better opportunity to draft a potential future building block for the future.

So much of baseball future is dependent on internal scouting and development. The only time it really, really matters is when there's a legitimate "Can't Miss" guy in the draft, and that's when you want to be #1 and not #2. When Bryce Harper or Alex Rodriguez are available. And EVEN THEN, you occasionally find a Mark Prior.

If the Sox win a few more games this year because guys like Beckham, Viciedo, Quintana, and maybe even Johnson and Garcia play well and have something to build on for the 2014 season, that's going to have a far greater impact on the Sox's ability to re-right this ship than worrying whether or not some kid who won't be a member of this organization for possibly another 10 months gets picked 4th, 5th, 6th, etc.

SouthSideMike
08-08-2013, 04:40 PM
It would be nice to see them play better, but it's pretty meaningless to finish ahead of Minnesota. It's still a terrible season either way.

Also, I think people are underestimating how bad the Yankees are right now. They look terrible. Way too early to say this team has turned a corner because they beat a sagging Yankees team.

TheVulture
08-08-2013, 04:46 PM
If you get the first pick, you're not guaranteed a prospect who will make an impact, however, you are guaranteed to get the prospect you want. Plus you would be that much more likely to get the picks you want in the subsequent rounds as well.

In addition, you would have close to 60% (an extra 1.8 million) more in international signing allotment than the #7 pick, and roughly 2.5 times what the Sox received this year. That extra 60% would give the Sox room to sign an extra player for roughly the amount they signed their top international signing for this year, I forget his name, but I believe he was signed for under 1.8 million. Having the top pick would allow the sox to sign three of those guys and have more left over for lower tier international signings. It's a massive discrepancy.

Edit: Upon further review, Zapata was signed for 1.6 mil. At #1 pick, the Sox would be able to sign three of those guys. At #7, the Sox would be able to sign one and a couple second tier, or possibly two top tier.

I'd say between having the #1 overall pick and the ability to sign at least one if not two more top tier international players the difference is substantial.

DSpivack
08-08-2013, 10:09 PM
If you get the first pick, you're not guaranteed a prospect who will make an impact, however, you are guaranteed to get the prospect you want. Plus you would be that much more likely to get the picks you want in the subsequent rounds as well.

In addition, you would have close to 60% (an extra 1.8 million) more in international signing allotment than the #7 pick, and roughly 2.5 times what the Sox received this year. That extra 60% would give the Sox room to sign an extra player for roughly the amount they signed their top international signing for this year, I forget his name, but I believe he was signed for under 1.8 million. Having the top pick would allow the sox to sign three of those guys and have more left over for lower tier international signings. It's a massive discrepancy.

Edit: Upon further review, Zapata was signed for 1.6 mil. At #1 pick, the Sox would be able to sign three of those guys. At #7, the Sox would be able to sign one and a couple second tier, or possibly two top tier.

I'd say between having the #1 overall pick and the ability to sign at least one if not two more top tier international players the difference is substantial.

The Sox and Marlins have identical records at 2nd worst behind Houston, who is 6.5 games worse than either Chicago or Florida. After those 3, it's about a 5-game dropoff to the Royals and Brewers. I think the Sox will likely be drafting in the top 3, but not #1 overall.

Hitmen77
08-09-2013, 10:59 AM
I don't want the Sox to have the dubious distinction of losing 100 games let alone break the all time franchise record of 106 losses. But, other than that, it's really rather meaningless to me whether we finish 5th or 4th. It's hard to get excited about battling Minn for 4th.

I'm not rooting for draft pick position, but if the Sox get top 3 or top 2 it's possible that could mean a future star or at least a solid MLB player. Our division rivals got Mauer and Verlander as either #1 or #2 picks. Evan Longoria was #3 in 2006. But then again, Kershaw, Lincecum, and Scherzer were # 7, 10, and 11 that same year.

cws05champ
08-09-2013, 11:35 AM
I don't want the Sox to have the dubious distinction of losing 100 games let alone break the all time franchise record of 106 losses. But, other than that, it's really rather meaningless to me whether we finish 5th or 4th. It's hard to get excited about battling Minn for 4th.

I'm not rooting for draft pick position, but if the Sox get top 3 or top 2 it's possible that could mean a future star or at least a solid MLB player. Our division rivals got Mauer and Verlander as either #1 or #2 picks. Evan Longoria was #3 in 2006. But then again, Kershaw, Lincecum, and Scherzer were # 7, 10, and 11 that same year.
Same here...I don't want them to lose 106 games but catching Minnesota means nothing to me. I would rather they get the #2 overall pick and increased Int'l bonus money as stated earlier. I understand there are no guarantees with any draft pick, but if the Sox have the chance to get a Carlos Rodon or Tyler Beede, a top of the rotation guy that is not that far away, it is worth sucking for a year. Yes those guys could not pan out or blow out their arm, but they could also help turn around the Sox in a year or two.

It's not too hard to see the Sox competing in 2 years with a rotation of Sale, Danks, Rodon, Johnson, Quintana. And with a low priced rotation and bullpen, the Sox could pour money into the offense through FA, or maybe they get some surprises through their system.

doublem23
08-09-2013, 11:38 AM
If you get the first pick, you're not guaranteed a prospect who will make an impact, however, you are guaranteed to get the prospect you want. Plus you would be that much more likely to get the picks you want in the subsequent rounds as well.

In addition, you would have close to 60% (an extra 1.8 million) more in international signing allotment than the #7 pick, and roughly 2.5 times what the Sox received this year. That extra 60% would give the Sox room to sign an extra player for roughly the amount they signed their top international signing for this year, I forget his name, but I believe he was signed for under 1.8 million. Having the top pick would allow the sox to sign three of those guys and have more left over for lower tier international signings. It's a massive discrepancy.

Edit: Upon further review, Zapata was signed for 1.6 mil. At #1 pick, the Sox would be able to sign three of those guys. At #7, the Sox would be able to sign one and a couple second tier, or possibly two top tier.

I'd say between having the #1 overall pick and the ability to sign at least one if not two more top tier international players the difference is substantial.

This is actually the best point that has been raised in this thread and I will agree that it made me do a quick double take on my position but I ultimately still feel that the immediate progress of your MLB ready younger players is more important than the ability to sign one or two 16 year olds from the Dominican Republic in July. Plus, unlike draft picks, you can swap international money around in player deals, so if the Sox are really serious about stepping up their game in Latin America, that can still be accomplished without me having to sit through a 100-loss season.

I guess my overall point isn't that I necessarily care if the Sox lose 90 or 100 games, but if the young guys like Garcia, Beckham, Sale, etc. spark a small, ultimately pointless winning streak in 2013, that will be fine with me even if it means the Sox have to settle for a Top 5-6 draft pick instead of a Top 2-3.

And, let's be real here, the Yankees looked absolutely putrid this week. I was at the game Monday and it felt like we were playing ourselves. Bad defense, bad baserunning, bad clutch offense, bad bullpen. They're a pretty terrible team right now. Sweeping them at home offers me no hope the Sox will actually put together a few wins in a row here. We still have mounds of problems.

tstrike2000
08-09-2013, 12:01 PM
Yeah, let's catch up and pass Minnesota. We need another Fourth Place banner to go with the others on the outfield wall.......

Maybe instead of acknowledging a place, they can just give all the players a ribbon.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5E7ocgwEpk8/TQFkEF1DPvI/AAAAAAAAAng/V4Jj9kMedxA/s1600/Green+Participant+Ribbon.jpg

SCCWS
08-09-2013, 01:32 PM
Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.

Actually there may be. FWIW---According to this analysis done in 06, the success rate of Picks 1-5 is 48% whereas 6-10 is 39%.

http://viewfromthebleachers.com/blog/2012/08/23/success-rate-of-mlb-draft-picks-by-slot/

mahagga73
08-10-2013, 02:38 PM
Those of you worrying about catching Minnesota don't have anything to worry about after last night. Especially with that bullpen.

DSpivack
08-10-2013, 03:12 PM
Joe Mauer.

JB98
08-10-2013, 06:02 PM
Those of you worrying about catching Minnesota don't have anything to worry about after last night. Especially with that bullpen.

Who is worrying about it? I want to catch Minnesota, but I don't expect it to happen, nor am I worried about the consequences if it doesn't.

CoopaLoop
08-10-2013, 06:48 PM
What would catching Minnesota do?

JB98
08-10-2013, 06:58 PM
What would catching Minnesota do?

Nothing. But it's something the team could set as a goal to keep themselves motivated and mentally engaged the rest of the year. I don't want guys giving away at-bats and tanking games. I want to see some energy on the field, and that has been lacking at times this year.

CoopaLoop
08-10-2013, 07:01 PM
Nothing. But it's something the team could set as a goal to keep themselves motivated and mentally engaged the rest of the year. I don't want guys giving away at-bats and tanking games. I want to see some energy on the field, and that has been lacking at times this year.

I want to see what Avisail Garcia does in the last two months. I want to see if Gordon Beckham can stay above .300 the last two months. I want to know if Hector Santiago or Andre Rienzo have a place in the rotation next year.

The idea of wanting to catch the 4th place team in the division just seems really silly and pointless to me.

JB98
08-10-2013, 07:53 PM
I want to see what Avisail Garcia does in the last two months. I want to see if Gordon Beckham can stay above .300 the last two months. I want to know if Hector Santiago or Andre Rienzo have a place in the rotation next year.

The idea of wanting to catch the 4th place team in the division just seems really silly and pointless to me.

That's because you've yet to comprehend what I'm saying. I'm not repeating myself again.

doublem23
08-11-2013, 07:25 PM
I want to see what Avisail Garcia does in the last two months. I want to see if Gordon Beckham can stay above .300 the last two months. I want to know if Hector Santiago or Andre Rienzo have a place in the rotation next year.

The idea of wanting to catch the 4th place team in the division just seems really silly and pointless to me.

Wanting to see the next generation of young players on your favorite baseball team play well and offer hope for next season is silly and pointless?

:thumbsup:

JB98
08-11-2013, 11:44 PM
And today's game is really an illustration of the point I've been trying to make. Not much energy or intensity out there. The manager and the coaching staff should give these guys a goal for the rest of the year. Maybe it doesn't need to be catching Minnesota. Maybe you just say, "Hey, guys, let's try to go 6-4 on this homestand." Or, "Well, we've got 46 games left. Let's try to go .500 the rest of the year."

Do something, anything, to give these guys some motivation other than personal pursuits. I don't think it's silly and pointless to set goals like that. Something needs to be said or done to prevent lackluster performances like today. Doesn't matter that they lost. I just don't want to see guys going through the motions and giving away at-bats. Use this time to get better. Compete like it matters. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.

SCCWS
08-12-2013, 08:50 AM
And today's game is really an illustration of the point I've been trying to make. Not much energy or intensity out there. The manager and the coaching staff should give these guys a goal for the rest of the year. Maybe it doesn't need to be catching Minnesota. Maybe you just say, "Hey, guys, let's try to go 6-4 on this homestand." Or, "Well, we've got 46 games left. Let's try to go .500 the rest of the year."

Do something, anything, to give these guys some motivation other than personal pursuits. I don't think it's silly and pointless to set goals like that. Something needs to be said or done to prevent lackluster performances like today. Doesn't matter that they lost. I just don't want to see guys going through the motions and giving away at-bats. Use this time to get better. Compete like it matters. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.

Who knows what happens behind closed doors. Maybe the manager and staff gave this team a goal but the talent level is still pretty bad. Scoring 2 runs in the 9th I guess is a sign the team did not quit. You also have the possiblity that the team gave up on Robin so his goals don't mean much

ChiSoxGal85
08-12-2013, 09:33 AM
And today's game is really an illustration of the point I've been trying to make. Not much energy or intensity out there. The manager and the coaching staff should give these guys a goal for the rest of the year. Maybe it doesn't need to be catching Minnesota. Maybe you just say, "Hey, guys, let's try to go 6-4 on this homestand." Or, "Well, we've got 46 games left. Let's try to go .500 the rest of the year."

Do something, anything, to give these guys some motivation other than personal pursuits. I don't think it's silly and pointless to set goals like that. Something needs to be said or done to prevent lackluster performances like today. Doesn't matter that they lost. I just don't want to see guys going through the motions and giving away at-bats. Use this time to get better. Compete like it matters. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.

I agree. I thought it was pretty telling what Alex Rios tweeted yesterday. Of course, if you're in first place, there's going to be a lot more energy:

Alex Rios ‏@arios51 (https://twitter.com/arios51)

The energy this team has is off the charts. Wow! #Rangers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Rangers&src=hash)

Reply (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)
Favorited (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)

guillensdisciple
08-12-2013, 10:12 AM
I'll take the better draft pick. God knows we need to have a better farm system anyway.

Hitmen77
08-12-2013, 10:39 AM
I agree. I thought it was pretty telling what Alex Rios tweeted yesterday. Of course, if you're in first place, there's going to be a lot more energy:

Alex Rios ‏@arios51 (https://twitter.com/arios51)

The energy this team has is off the charts. Wow! #Rangers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Rangers&src=hash)

Reply (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)
Favorited (https://twitter.com/arios51/status/366700354286522368#)




Alex did spend about 100 days in 1st place with the White Sox last year. I wonder if he thinks the energy of the Rangers is off the charts compared to anything he's seen during his time with the Sox. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is yes.

JB98
08-12-2013, 02:34 PM
Who knows what happens behind closed doors. Maybe the manager and staff gave this team a goal but the talent level is still pretty bad. Scoring 2 runs in the 9th I guess is a sign the team did not quit. You also have the possiblity that the team gave up on Robin so his goals don't mean much

I doubt it.

And I didn't really see the two solo home runs in the ninth as a sign that the team did not quit. I saw a bunch of guys swinging for the fences to pad their own stats. Two happened to connect. Three others struck out. Whoop-dee-doo. I thought the team had a lot of embarrassing at-bats yesterday, especially against Correia. Sure, the talent level on this team isn't that high. Correia's talent level isn't that high either. He shouldn't be missing that many bats.

doublem23
08-12-2013, 02:36 PM
I doubt it.

And I didn't really see the two solo home runs in the ninth as a sign that the team did not quit. I saw a bunch of guys for the fences to pad their own stats. Two happened to connect. Three others struck out. Whoop-dee-doo. I thought the team had a lot of embarrassing at-bats yesterday, especially against Correia. Sure, the talent level on this team isn't that high. Correia's talent level isn't that high either. He shouldn't be missing that many bats.

That's basically the sense I got, too. The Sox probably hit 4-5 extra balls to the warning track, but not a lot of quality at bats against a **** pitcher.

Domeshot17
08-12-2013, 04:14 PM
Likewise, nobody cares whether or not their top draft pick is #4 or #7. It's all basically the same.

Very limited way of thinking...

For example, the slot of pick 4 this year was about 4.5 million. The slot for pick 7 this year was 3.2 million...... Thats an extra 1.2 million the Sox could be throwing at a kid later in the draft who falls, or use to sign the guy they want.

This draft especially is VERY top heavy, so you want to be picking high and have choices. This is a draft that could revamp our entire minor league system.

I would much rather have an extra million and change in draft money than finish 4th.

doublem23
08-12-2013, 04:18 PM
Very limited way of thinking...

For example, the slot of pick 4 this year was about 4.5 million. The slot for pick 7 this year was 3.2 million...... Thats an extra 1.2 million the Sox could be throwing at a kid later in the draft who falls, or use to sign the guy they want.

This draft especially is VERY top heavy, so you want to be picking high and have choices. This is a draft that could revamp our entire minor league system.

I would much rather have an extra million and change in draft money than finish 4th.

I'm not really worried about it

Domeshot17
08-12-2013, 05:44 PM
I'm not really worried about it

Well, to think about it this way, the difference between that money would probably have signed Octavio Rodriguez, maybe the 2nd highest ceiling we draftedthis year in terms of pitchers. Is losing a kid like that worth finishing 4th?

A few years ago, yes, I would not have cared because we would have screwed up a top 5 pick anyway by going cheap. But with money you can use based on where you pick, it really does make a difference.

sunofgold
08-14-2013, 11:56 AM
7 gb of Angels
7.5 gb of twins and jays

5.5 gb of cubbs and brewers
Giants, Phil's and Padres not too far

Let us catch these teams. We are better than all of them!

PushinWeight
08-14-2013, 11:35 PM
No. No. NO! As a fan of this team you really want them win some meaningless games and fall down in the draft? There is PLENTY of difference between a top 3 pick and a 8-9-10 or later pick.

A 100 loss season is worth drafting a talent of THIS caliber:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130617&content_id=50878950&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

And besides, I want THIS lost season to be rock bottom. Get all of the losing out of your system White Sox, it can only be up hill 2014 and beyond.

JB98
08-15-2013, 12:59 AM
No. No. NO! As a fan of this team you really want them win some meaningless games and fall down in the draft? There is PLENTY of difference between a top 3 pick and a 8-9-10 or later pick.

A 100 loss season is worth drafting a talent of THIS caliber:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130617&content_id=50878950&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

And besides, I want THIS lost season to be rock bottom. Get all of the losing out of your system White Sox, it can only be up hill 2014 and beyond.

Yes. Every time I sit down to watch the White Sox, I hope they win. That's what a fan does.

I realize all the cool kids around here are rooting against the team now, but let's be honest: neither LeBron, nor Andrew Luck, nor .133-hitting uberprospect Mike Olt are available in next year's MLB draft.

The Sox aren't getting the No. 1 pick. Houston has a lock on it. I'm sorry. The Sox draft position will take care of itself. It is completely pointless to root for such a thing, especially when you don't know who you are getting anyway.

CoopaLoop
08-16-2013, 08:08 PM
Wanting to see the next generation of young players on your favorite baseball team play well and offer hope for next season is silly and pointless?

:thumbsup:

That's what you took out of my post?

Impressive.

sunofgold
08-18-2013, 12:19 AM
Hey hey hey -6.5
Catch minn or even those forever rebuilding chubs.

sunofgold
08-18-2013, 09:26 PM
Minnesofa -5.0
cubby bears -3.5

And a few other teams within reach that we are better than: Brewers, Angels, Blue Jays, Padres, Giants, Phillies

sunofgold
08-29-2013, 10:28 AM
The White Sox are coming! Watch out twins with only 1.5 lead. We have passed the cubs.

Hahns moves looking good. Traded away a few injury prone players and a player who sometimes loafs. Saved a boatload of cash and we are playing better.

Hitmen77
08-29-2013, 11:17 AM
The White Sox are coming! Watch out twins with only 1.5 lead. We have passed the cubs.

Hahns moves looking good. Traded away a few injury prone players and a player who sometimes loafs. Saved a boatload of cash and we are playing better.

Theo the Genius strikes again by passing us by for for the higher draft pick!

Seriously though, I'm glad the Sox are looking respectable now. I just want them to draft/sign better players regardless of where we finish in the standings.

russ99
08-29-2013, 01:25 PM
We need a top-3 pick. This run we've been having is nice, but it only helps the young players that are on the team now.

Our schedule is significantly tougher the rest of the way with the big east coast road trip and multiple series with the Tigers and Indians. So I still think we're going to end up with that top 3 pick.

SCCWS
08-29-2013, 02:11 PM
We need a top-3 pick. This run we've been having is nice, but it only helps the young players that are on the team now.

Our schedule is significantly tougher the rest of the way with the big east coast road trip and multiple series with the Tigers and Indians. So I still think we're going to end up with that top 3 pick.

Top 5 at minimum. I posted an analysis a few weeks ago that said picks 1-5 have a 12% higher chance of being successful than 6-10.

sunofgold
08-29-2013, 02:13 PM
We aren't going to get a top 3 pick. We are playing well and I see a few more teams that we can catch. I think maybe a 7thru 10 pick. Sale wasn't a top 3 pick.

I am not worried about the schedule. We have recently taken series from NYY, KC, DET and Texas. I rather play good teams who have something at stake. Play the spoiler and help build team confidence.

SCCWS
08-29-2013, 06:24 PM
We aren't going to get a top 3 pick. We are playing well and I see a few more teams that we can catch. I think maybe a 7thru 10 pick. Sale wasn't a top 3 pick.

.

You are correct, Sale was a homerun pick. But the following were also not Top 3 picks---Mitchell-Beckham-Poreda-McCulloch-Broadway-Fields-Anderson-Ring-Honel etc. A lot of strikeouts for that one homerun.

insp
08-30-2013, 05:03 AM
Who cares about catching Minnesota? Let's catch Kansas City!

mrwag
08-30-2013, 08:49 AM
KC? Let's just catch Detroit while we're at it! ;)

Yes, that should be in teal I suppose...

JB98
08-30-2013, 01:30 PM
You are correct, Sale was a homerun pick. But the following were also not Top 3 picks---Mitchell-Beckham-Poreda-McCulloch-Broadway-Fields-Anderson-Ring-Honel etc. A lot of strikeouts for that one homerun.

Geez, people really do hate Beckham. He is much too good a player to be listed with the rest of those bums.

SephClone89
08-30-2013, 01:55 PM
Geez, people really do hate Beckham. He is much too good a player to be listed with the rest of those bums.

Remains to be seen, really.

Chez
08-30-2013, 01:56 PM
Remains to be seen, really.

He's been a starter for five years!! That's hardly a bust.

SephClone89
08-30-2013, 02:13 PM
He's been a starter for five years!! That's hardly a bust.

He's been barely above replacement level for most of those years. Jury's still out.

doublem23
08-30-2013, 02:17 PM
He's been barely above replacement level for most of those years. Jury's still out.

He's been clearly above replacement level (6.3 WAR in 5 seasons now) and even if he was barely above replacement level, it's still a helluva lot better than the rest of the crap on that list.

Tragg
08-30-2013, 03:05 PM
If we catch them, we catch them. In the meantime, play and pitch the young players. The main goal now is the future - certainly not winning 70 games or catching Minnesota.

GoSox2K3
08-30-2013, 04:16 PM
You are correct, Sale was a homerun pick. But the following were also not Top 3 picks---Mitchell-Beckham-Poreda-McCulloch-Broadway-Fields-Anderson-Ring-Honel etc. A lot of strikeouts for that one homerun.

Yep. That list is revolting. It's a damning indictment of the Sox incompetence in drafting players over a 10 year period.

The following players were in the top 3 over the last 10 years or so: Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Strasburg, Justin Verlander, Pedro Alvarez, David Price, Mike Moustakas, Evan Longoria, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Joe Mauer.

Having a higher pick could matter.

SCCWS
08-30-2013, 05:10 PM
He's been a starter for five years!! That's hardly a bust.

I put him on the list because that is the list of 1st round draft picks. The point is Sale was a great pick but Beckham is the only one who is a legit ML player and his career is very average so far. Mitchell may turn out to be one

FielderJones
08-30-2013, 05:11 PM
The following players were in the top 3 over the last 10 years or so: Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Strasburg, Justin Verlander, Pedro Alvarez, David Price, Mike Moustakas, Evan Longoria, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Joe Mauer.

Could we see all the top 3s over the last 10 years? How many other GMs have picked busts in those rounds?

WhiteSox5187
08-30-2013, 05:12 PM
I put him on the list because that is the list of 1st round draft picks. The point is Sale was a great pick but Beckham is the only one who is a legit ML player and his career is very average so far. Mitchell may turn out to be one

I thought some scouts have Mitchell as a candidate to be released?

TheVulture
08-30-2013, 08:27 PM
That's a depressing list no doubt, but it has nothing to do with the people pulling the lever now...I don't know as much as some about the Sox minors, amateur players and what not, but it seems like they've done a decent job the last couple of years.

SI1020
08-30-2013, 09:15 PM
I thought some scouts have Mitchell as a candidate to be released? Look at the stats and you can see why.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mitche001jar

Mr. Jinx
08-31-2013, 11:09 AM
Because I'm hungover and need something to focus on, I took a look at the top 3 vs picks 4-10 over the past 10 years. Below is my listing of players that I feel are at a minimum "not bums" (so sorry, you won't be seeing Phil Humber on this list). Keep in mind this is completely subjective on my part and there's a pretty good chance I'm leaving people off that you might consider good players and you may think some below are bums! Also, once I got around 2009 or so, it became more difficult to determine as some of these guys are still good prospects so I am keeping this solely at guys who have been good major league players so far.

2002:
1-3: BJ Upton
4-10: Zack Greinke, Prince Fielder

2003:
1-3: Delmon Young, Rickie Weeks
4-10: Nick Markakis, John Danks, Ian Stewart

2004:
1-3: Justin Verlander
4-10: no one

2005:
1-3: Justin Upton
4-10: Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitski (wow!)

2006:
1-3: Evan Longoria
4-10: Clayton Kershaw, Tim Lincecomb

2007:
1-3: David Price, Mike Moustakas...I guess
4-10: Matt Wieters, Madison Bumgarner

2008:
1-3: Pedro Alvarez, Eric Hosmer...maybe
4-10: Buster Posey, Gordon Beckham

2009:
1-3: Steven Strasburg
4-10: Mike Leake, Mike Minor

2010:
1-3: Bryce Harper, Manny Machado
4-10: Matt Harvey, Delino DeShields only if in some bizarre time traveling way it is the same guy from my childhood

2011+ Too early as none of these guys have had significant MLB time yet.

JB98
08-31-2013, 01:57 PM
He's been barely above replacement level for most of those years. Jury's still out.

Not if we're comparing his career to Jared Mitchell, Brian Anderson or Josh Fields. Even if he's just an average major-leaguer, he is clearly superior to those folks.

Beckham doesn't belong on a list with Mitchell, Anderson and Fields any more than he belongs on a list with Cano and Utley.

JB98
08-31-2013, 02:00 PM
Yep. That list is revolting. It's a damning indictment of the Sox incompetence in drafting players over a 10 year period.

The following players were in the top 3 over the last 10 years or so: Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Strasburg, Justin Verlander, Pedro Alvarez, David Price, Mike Moustakas, Evan Longoria, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Joe Mauer.

Having a higher pick could matter.

Phil Humber was also drafted in the top three. Nothing is ever guaranteed.

JB98
08-31-2013, 02:02 PM
I thought some scouts have Mitchell as a candidate to be released?

IMO, his status as a former first-round pick is keeping him in the organization. They have invested a lot in him, and they will exhaust every avenue before they give up. Right now, it's hard to be encouraged about Jared Mitchell. There's no way to sugarcoat it. He's had a terrible year.

balke
08-31-2013, 02:38 PM
Phil Humber was also drafted in the top three. Nothing is ever guaranteed.

Results vary, but if you pick #1 overall you have more people to choose from than the guy picking #2. The rest is results.

I understand any guy can be a bust at any pick. I will still very much embrace the idea of the Sox being able to pick from a deeper pool of talent this offseason.

rdivaldi
08-31-2013, 06:04 PM
Could we see all the top 3s over the last 10 years? How many other GMs have picked busts in those rounds?

It's not an accurate representation of today's draft to judge drafts from 10, 5 or even 3 years ago. The new CBA allows all teams to draft the best talent available, this was not the case just a few years ago.