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hawkjt
08-07-2013, 05:38 PM
I was listening to B & B today,(I know, they drive me nuts also),and Berstein was discussing the future of the White Sox with his ''sources'' with the organization last nite,and he came away unusually positive,especially for him.

We all know he is one of the biggest naysayers around,but after questioning one of his supposed insiders at the Sox he had this to offer:

1. The Sox will only have around 60 million committed to payroll next year,and if Rios and or Dunn getting moved it will be even less.
2 The following year they will only have like 38 million committed to payroll.
3. They have one of the rare commodities in baseball...a true #1 starter,locked up for 7 years at cheap prices.
4. They have other reliable and cheap starters in Quintana and Santiago and then of course Danks....so they do have a rotation that can be servicable immediately.
5. They will have money,which in the new paradigm, is the currency in which you can add young talent with deals that take overpriced guys from other teams,and absorb some salary,but only if they add prospects.

Bernstein is usually extremely negative about the Sox hopes of quickly rebuilding,and in total love with Theo and the Cubs plan but today he actually turned on a dime and said he thinks the Sox have a workable plan for a reasonably quick turnaround.

He is having Rick Hahn on today at 5:30 pm ,and said he will try to get Hahn on the record with his plan for restoring the Sox quickly.
Now, we all know that Hahn is not going to advertise his plan much,but could make for some interesting listening.

Of course,the trick is to actually trade for and sign the right guys.
But, the signing of Sale was a key move.
Call me crazy,but I think Hahn can get the Sox competitive by 2015.

amsteel
08-07-2013, 06:43 PM
The sooner the Tigers win a WS and consequentially stop spending, the sooner the Sox are contenders in the ALC.

Tragg
08-07-2013, 06:49 PM
5. They will have money,which in the new paradigm, is the currency in which you can add young talent with deals that take overpriced guys from other teams,and absorb some salary,but only if they add prospects.
Regarding this new paradigm, when will it start?
When has a team traded a player with a bad contract plus prospects for essentially nothing in return?

Noneck
08-07-2013, 07:04 PM
Regarding this new paradigm, when will it start?
When has a team traded a player with a bad contract plus prospects for essentially nothing in return?

I was thinking the same thing. This is basically buying prospects from other teams. Every team in MLB makes money so I dont see why a club would sell prospects and only get money in return. Maybe Im missing something here.

hawkjt
08-07-2013, 07:32 PM
Look at the proposed deals with the Rangers on Rios....supposedly, the Rangers would offer better prospects if the Sox pick up some of Rios salary.

Teams that have bad deals on their books, might be willing to throw in prospects to get the Sox to pick up more of the money from the bad deal.

If we trade Dunn,and agree to pick up half of the salary,we get better prospects in the deal.

Look at the Angels,Dodgers,and other teams with huge payrolls...they might want to dump some of that bad contract,and willing to toss in some prospects to get rid of them.

dickallen15
08-07-2013, 08:09 PM
This has never happened and probably isn't right around the corner considering prospects are at an all time high value wise and each team gets a lot more money next year. Bernstein wrote an article about this on the score website and you will see reading it that he is way off base, even mentioning salary cap, which doesn't exist in MLB. Why would the Sox eat eight figures for a middle of the road prospect? Besides, if this was the Sox plan, why didn't they do it with Peavy or Rios? Word was, they would eat zero.

It seems Bernstein thinks the Sox play in the NBA.

I wonder if the guy Bernstein says he speaks to is an alter ego like Hawk is to Ken Harrelson.

SouthSideMike
08-07-2013, 08:36 PM
I got a bit of a laugh out of Bernstein's article. It's really ludicrous to be honest.

Financial elasticity is becoming a new market inequity in MLB, allowing creative teams more options for accelerated improvement as they take advantage of opponents laden with large, unproductive contracts.

Does he even know what he's saying here? Or is he just did he just flip through an econ textbook and pick a couple phrases to use?

And did he really mention TARP in the context of a baseball article?

Why would a team be willing to take on bad contracts just for the sake of getting prospects? How about just building your scouting system and player development and having solid drafts? Or you could just trade your own pieces you deem expendable to add prospects to your system.

And more importantly, why would other teams dump prospects just to get rid of a high priced player? Seems counter intuitive considering they'd be getting rid of veteran players AND their potential replacements simply for a bit of salary relief. Really makes no sense.

roylestillman
08-07-2013, 09:09 PM
I agree with 1-4 and I think it is huge in giving the Sox the flexibility to make some major moves. It's the difference between the Sox and the Cubs, who had to wait until salary cleared before starting their rebuild. I don't get 5 and without an example of a club giving up an overpriced veteran and some prospects, I just don't see it. It reminds me of bygone days of the St. Louis Browns selling players to make payroll. No team is that desperate anymore.

DSpivack
08-08-2013, 12:37 AM
While 1 and 2 are based on facts of who the Sox currently have on the books for the future, as anyone can peruse here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2013-payroll-salaries.shtml), it says nothing to me of what their plans are for the future.

Golden Sox
08-08-2013, 10:58 AM
I don't know if anybody has noticed but I don't think the 2013 White Sox attendance has been all that bad this year. There averaging 23,277 which puts them on a pace for 1.8 million this year. When you stop and think that it rained the first 3 months of the season(bad weather) and the White Sox are in last place, I think there attendance has been quite good, all things considered. I would like to think that the lowering of the tickets has had a positive effect on attendance this 2013 season. There are still some problems that I see. Most people still don't want to sit in the upper deck. Other teams with that same issue have simply lowered the ticket prices in the upper deck. The Tampa Bay Rays charge $12 for any seat in the upper deck. Wouldn't it make more sense for the White Sox to charge $12 for every seat in the upper deck at the Cell? Having one set cheap price in the upper deck would be a good PR move for the White Sox. It would also attract more fans to the games. The more fans at the games usually means more money spent on concessions and parking.

24thStFan
08-08-2013, 10:59 AM
I'm certainly not the most patient person, and I'd love the Sox to be competitive in the near future, but I don't trust White Sox management to sign productive free agents. So I'm OK with them getting prospects, even if it means paying some of Rios' or Dunn's salary.

russ99
08-08-2013, 11:35 AM
I don't buy this "take prospects with bloated contracts" idea. Is there any case in recent history where someone did this? MLB is a copycat league, and this strategy has not shown to be successful. Plus I don't see Hahn taking bad contracts now that he's finally clearing payroll, even if we get a few "B" prospects in the deal(s).

IMO, the Sox are going to have to spend on hitters this offseason, as we have a very weak team without them, and none of our impact prospects are close to ready other than Garcia.

We should try to move Rios before Sept 1st regardless of the return. We should still be able to get something decent for him.

I see a opening day lineup of:

RF: DeAza
2B : Beckham
CF: Garcia
DH: Dunn (nobody is taking his contract until next deadline)
1B: <free agent>
LF: <free agent> or Viciedo
3B: <free agent> or Keppinger
SS: Ramirez
C: Phegley

And I'm not talking about the top free agents either, though Granderson and Morneau at below-market deals due to injury risk would be tasty. The Sox could add some good bats for at market prices in January after the big names have signed.

doublem23
08-08-2013, 11:39 AM
DH: Dunn (nobody is taking his contract until next deadline)

Are people not aware that Dunn and Rios, at this point, are basically owed the same amount of money?

russ99
08-08-2013, 11:40 AM
Are people not aware that Dunn and Rios, at this point, are basically owed the same amount of money?

Rios is a better hitter, he's earning his contract and he could help push a playoff team over the edge. Dunn is none of those things.

doublem23
08-08-2013, 11:40 AM
Rios is a better hitter, he's earning his contract and he could help push a playoff team over the edge. Dunn is none of those things.

Haven't been watching much this year?

EDIT - Should note, I'm not saying I think Dunn is going to get moved, I just don't think anyone is going to take Rios, either. He's been a whole lot of bad this year.

Domeshot17
08-08-2013, 12:22 PM
Did anyone hear Hahn yesterday? I listened on my drive home but he had not come on between 530-545

Milw
08-08-2013, 07:30 PM
Haven't been watching much this year?

EDIT - Should note, I'm not saying I think Dunn is going to get moved, I just don't think anyone is going to take Rios, either. He's been a whole lot of bad this year.
He's going to wind up at roughly 75 R, 75 RBI, 18 HR, 40 SB, and he's hitting .277 and slugging .421. He ranks 14th among all RF in total bases.

He's not having a fantastic year by any means, but "a whole lot of bad?" Not quite.

doublem23
08-08-2013, 09:27 PM
He's going to wind up at roughly 75 R, 75 RBI, 18 HR, 40 SB, and he's hitting .277 and slugging .421. He ranks 14th among all RF in total bases.

He's not having a fantastic year by any means, but "a whole lot of bad?" Not quite.

That's only if you think he's been steady all year, he hasn't, he started great but it's been pretty slim pickings for almost 2 months now. Here's his last 50 games:

.255/.296/.326 with 1 HR

kittle42
08-09-2013, 10:36 AM
Some teams can bring up Michael Wacha to start at this point. The Sox can bring up Charlie Leesman.

Oh, this minor league system.

Domeshot17
08-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Yesterday Hahn was on B & B after the trade and he said something that seemed to make sense to me....

He was clearing payroll, but we would see resources reallocated. Bernstein then asked how that would work in the draft because of the slots, and Hahn said the team expects to have a very big slot to work with. It sounds like he is setting this team up to not be under the Jerry/Kenny 50 cent thumb for this draft. Its very common for top 5 teams with big slots to take kids a little higher so they can use some of the slot money later in the draft. Barring something stupid like the Sox playing out of a top 10 pick, this draft could be the one that totally rejuvenates our farm.

The one thing I left yesterday with after the interview.... Kenny, he basically said the same thing every interview. Goal is to win a world series, I like winning, blah blah blah. Canned, Generic.

Hahn really seems to have a plan. He seems like he knows exactly what he is doing, and he is 2 steps ahead, not 2 behind. Sounds like some of this money is going to be used to lure some great scouts to Chicago and find better talent in the draft. Said he will not be focusing on the high floor type picks we used to make. I felt very confident in him as our GM yesterday.

captain54
08-10-2013, 01:26 PM
Hahn really seems to have a plan. He seems like he knows exactly what he is doing, and he is 2 steps ahead, not 2 behind..

that's all well and good, but.. I harken back to Reinsdorf's kid sort of letting the cat out of the back with a recent newspaper feature on the local sports execs, saying that the old man was VERY involved in operations.. that could be taken a number of ways, but.. there's always the specter of the Chairman still ultimately calling all the shots and putting the kabosh on any plan, no matter how sensical.

I think the organization deathly fears giving the fans the impression that a somewhat lengthy 2-3 yr or more rebuild is in order.. , when in fact it could be possible the case. The Sox do have a nice core of starting pitching, but when you look at all the other holes to be filled.. Catching, the offense as a whole, the bullpen...yikes...

Dan H
08-10-2013, 01:35 PM
that's all well and good, but.. I harken back to Reinsdorf's kid sort of letting the cat out of the back with a recent newspaper feature on the local sports execs, saying that the old man was VERY involved in operations.. that could be taken a number of ways, but.. there's always the specter of the Chairman still ultimately calling all the shots and putting the kabosh on any plan, no matter how sensical.

I think the organization deathly fears giving the fans the impression that a somewhat lengthy 2-3 yr or more rebuild is in order.. , when in fact it could be possible the case. The Sox do have a nice core of starting pitching, but when you look at all the other holes to be filled.. Catching, the offense as a whole, the bullpen...yikes...

I agree with your assessment of how the organization fears a fan backlash. The White Sox have been very defensive about public criticism from the beginning and the White Flag Trade aftermath still haunts them.

I also agree that the rebuild will take time. Like you said, there are so many holes to fill and young players need time to develop. 2015 will come and go and the Sox will not have returned to the playoffs.

Domeshot17
08-12-2013, 04:18 PM
I agree with your assessment of how the organization fears a fan backlash. The White Sox have been very defensive about public criticism from the beginning and the White Flag Trade aftermath still haunts them.

I also agree that the rebuild will take time. Like you said, there are so many holes to fill and young players need time to develop. 2015 will come and go and the Sox will not have returned to the playoffs.

You don't HAVE to rebuild though. If Hahn can run out an 80-85 win team ala Kenny for 2 or 3 years at 20 mil cheaper and use 10-15 mil of that to sign scouts who operate well and get us young talent, and we start infusing that talent to fill holes over the years, He did a great job. Hahn clearly is much sharper than Kenny. If that translates is a different story, but we are dealing with a very smart man here. You have to like that.

doublem23
08-12-2013, 04:22 PM
Yesterday Hahn was on B & B after the trade and he said something that seemed to make sense to me....

He was clearing payroll, but we would see resources reallocated. Bernstein then asked how that would work in the draft because of the slots, and Hahn said the team expects to have a very big slot to work with. It sounds like he is setting this team up to not be under the Jerry/Kenny 50 cent thumb for this draft. Its very common for top 5 teams with big slots to take kids a little higher so they can use some of the slot money later in the draft. Barring something stupid like the Sox playing out of a top 10 pick, this draft could be the one that totally rejuvenates our farm.

The one thing I left yesterday with after the interview.... Kenny, he basically said the same thing every interview. Goal is to win a world series, I like winning, blah blah blah. Canned, Generic.

Hahn really seems to have a plan. He seems like he knows exactly what he is doing, and he is 2 steps ahead, not 2 behind. Sounds like some of this money is going to be used to lure some great scouts to Chicago and find better talent in the draft. Said he will not be focusing on the high floor type picks we used to make. I felt very confident in him as our GM yesterday.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the Sox did in Kenny's last draft (AKA the first one under the new CBA rules), anyways. And what they did this year.

TaylorStSox
08-12-2013, 04:27 PM
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the Sox did in Kenny's last draft (AKA the first one under the new CBA rules), anyways. And what they did this year.

This. Plus, Hahn and KW have been basically co-GM's for a few years and it's pretty clear the GM switch had been in the works for a number of years. Hahn was eased into the role.

The way KW gets slammed on this site is comical. He consistently had this team more competitive than any other GM in most of our lifetimes.

XplodingScorbord
08-12-2013, 04:31 PM
Many Sox fans have no end to their self-induced misery.

Golden Sox
08-12-2013, 04:35 PM
The White Sox have 4 options for 2014.
1) Keep the same players and hope they get better in 2014.
2) Bring up some players from the Minor Leagues and hope they perform better than the present group of players.
3) Trade some of the pitchers (the teams strength) for some hitters.
4) Sign some free agents who can hit. K. Morales, B. McCann and Ellsbury come to mind.
Taking everything into account I would like to think the White Sox are going to spend money on some free agents who can hit. With the pitching staff the White Sox have, all we need are some PLAYERS WHO CAN HIT.

Domeshot17
08-12-2013, 05:03 PM
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the Sox did in Kenny's last draft (AKA the first one under the new CBA rules), anyways. And what they did this year.

Kind of, but I liked Hahn's draft this year much more than Kenny's the year before.

TaylorStSox
08-12-2013, 05:08 PM
Kind of, but I liked Hahn's draft this year much more than Kenny's the year before.

Why?

Domeshot17
08-12-2013, 05:36 PM
Why?

The only thing I hated this year was the 1 guy we won't sign is the guy with one of the bigger upsides, but thats 10000% based on his body, and nothing he has done.

We drafted well, and we took guys who have some high risk/high reward. Namely, Danish. I loved that pick. Maybe he does not work out, a lot of guys like him won't. But his velocity and breaking ball give him a chance to be special. It wasn't just an athletic/toolsy OF type, but a guy with legit baseball skills. We didn't just focus on signability, but finding guys who might make an impact with the signability factor. We had a really decent draft.

I don't get it. Are people pissed that Hahn actually seems to have a plan?

slavko
08-12-2013, 06:42 PM
He does do a nice interview. Sounds like a conversation with an educated man. Kenny is an educated man but his interviews sounded like he was talking down to us. Kenny did field competitive teams but with an unsustainable business model. It's my answer to why we are where we are.

He's got a job ahead of him, all right. The 'pen is overrated and there's a bunch of holes to fill on the field. The one bright spot is the stating pitching, but I'll bet you a lemon cookie some of it gets traded to fill the aforementioned holes. Most of you tell me the minors are barren of position players and I'll take your word for it.

TaylorStSox
08-12-2013, 08:31 PM
The only thing I hated this year was the 1 guy we won't sign is the guy with one of the bigger upsides, but thats 10000% based on his body, and nothing he has done.

We drafted well, and we took guys who have some high risk/high reward. Namely, Danish. I loved that pick. Maybe he does not work out, a lot of guys like him won't. But his velocity and breaking ball give him a chance to be special. It wasn't just an athletic/toolsy OF type, but a guy with legit baseball skills. We didn't just focus on signability, but finding guys who might make an impact with the signability factor. We had a really decent draft.

I don't get it. Are people pissed that Hahn actually seems to have a plan?

We focused on signability last year? Both Anderson and May were both way bigger reaches than Hawkins and Barnum. May was a total save money pick. I know why they did it though. Hawkins wasn't a reach in any way and everyone loved the pick. Danish is far more of a risk than Barnum. A lot of organizations wouldn't touch Danish with a 5th round pick. Personally, I loved both drafts, but I think your argument is either ignorant or biased.

Domeshot17
08-13-2013, 01:58 PM
We focused on signability last year? Both Anderson and May were both way bigger reaches than Hawkins and Barnum. May was a total save money pick. I know why they did it though. Hawkins wasn't a reach in any way and everyone loved the pick. Danish is far more of a risk than Barnum. A lot of organizations wouldn't touch Danish with a 5th round pick. Personally, I loved both drafts, but I think your argument is either ignorant or biased.

I know a lot of scouts who hated the Barnum pick. Reviewing a draft I guess tends to be personal bias every time. Take Anderson, I actually wanted us to go Starting Pitcher over SS there, but a lot of Scouts/"Experts" liked the fit. Some did not.

I like Hawkins, I think he was the right pick, but I just really liked this years draft. A lot of it stems from the fact I have confidence in Danish, and I have no confidence in Barnum.

I also said we focused on NOT JUST SIGNABILITY, meaning yes, we had some picks where we focused on money, but we spent our money really, really well this year.

#1swisher
08-13-2013, 08:06 PM
Chuck Garfien (https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
Speaking about White Sox offense, Kenny Williams says they're deciding "who's going to deserve to be asked back."

Williams on the current Sox offense: "This is not White Sox baseball in any way, shape or form."



Scott Merkin ‏ (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin)
Kenny Williams held court today for about 40 minutes. A full report on his comments:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130813&content_id=56851704&notebook_id=56862662&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

Schouwen ‏ (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan)
KW on next year's lineup: 'We’re looking at who deserves to be asked back. Because this is not White Sox baseball in no way, shape or form.'

Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox) 3m (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox/status/367449444943265792) Bad 2013 won't deter Kenny Williams http://es.pn/1d52ofk (http://t.co/ziYZrR9eSu)

Tragg
08-14-2013, 12:31 AM
Unfortunately, some of these guys who shouldn't be invited back have a standing invitation by contract....Keppinger e.g.
I'd still like to see them move Dunn. Let De Aza (who is goofy at times, I know) play some DH and LF with Viciedo.

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 11:46 AM
If they're willing to eat money, Keppinger has to be DFA'd. I never use the word "unacceptable," but his play really is. He's one of the worst baseball players I've ever seen. He does nothing well. Nothing.

GoSox2K3
08-14-2013, 11:51 AM
Chuck Garfien (https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
Speaking about White Sox offense, Kenny Williams says they're deciding "who's going to deserve to be asked back."

Williams on the current Sox offense: "This is not White Sox baseball in any way, shape or form."



Scott Merkin ‏ (https://twitter.com/scottmerkin)
Kenny Williams held court today for about 40 minutes. A full report on his comments:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130813&content_id=56851704&notebook_id=56862662&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

Schouwen ‏ (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan)
KW on next year's lineup: 'We’re looking at who deserves to be asked back. Because this is not White Sox baseball in no way, shape or form.'

Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox) 3m (https://twitter.com/ESPNChiSox/status/367449444943265792) Bad 2013 won't deter Kenny Williams http://es.pn/1d52ofk (http://t.co/ziYZrR9eSu)

More empty words from Kenny Williams - which is what I have come to expect over the last 5 years. Are they going to not ask Alexei back and eat the $20M they still owe him? GMAB. And if they don't ask a bunch of the bad players back, who is going to take their place? It sounds like we don't have much in the way of MLB-ready position player talent in our system and I doubt the Sox are going on a FA spending spree this winter.

sunofgold
08-14-2013, 12:12 PM
Get an 3rd baseman and other OF and this team looks good for next
Year. Easier said than done. 3rd baseman Free agent pool looks bleak.

Of- Garcia
Of - De Aza
of - GET ONE
3rd - Get one
SS - Alexei until one develops from minors
2b - Beckham
1b/DH platoon between Dunn and viciedo
c - platoon/open competition between Josh P and Tyler F

Starters very good. Reed works as closer. Maybe get another reliever. Kepper and Gillaspie are fine as bench players

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 12:19 PM
More empty words from Kenny Williams - which is what I have come to expect over the last 5 years. Are they going to not ask Alexei back and eat the $20M they still owe him? GMAB. And if they don't ask a bunch of the bad players back, who is going to take their place? It sounds like we don't have much in the way of MLB-ready position player talent in our system and I doubt the Sox are going on a FA spending spree this winter.

Ramirez has had a tough year, but he's absolutely not the problem.

XplodingScorbord
08-14-2013, 12:32 PM
Ramirez has had a tough year, but he's absolutely not the problem.

Glad somebody said this. The guy hasn't had a day off in forever. He's probably mentally shot. And yet, despite a rise in errors, he's still making plays not many other SS can, and hitting at a good clip. This is absolutely not a guy you just get rid of. Man, Sox fans this year are nuts.

kobo
08-14-2013, 01:18 PM
Schouwen ‏ (https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan)
KW on next year's lineup: 'We’re looking at who deserves to be asked back. Because this is not White Sox baseball in no way, shape or form.'

*** does this even mean? Ask back? Who is he kidding? There are players under contract for next season so those players will be back. If they're not then they will be traded because they aren't going to eat any salary. Once again, KW trying to be the tough guy instead of just being honest.

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 01:34 PM
*** does this even mean? Ask back? Who is he kidding? There are players under contract for next season so those players will be back. If they're not then they will be traded because they aren't going to eat any salary. Once again, KW trying to be the tough guy instead of just being honest.

Technically only 4 players are under contract for next year.

Domeshot17
08-14-2013, 01:36 PM
*** does this even mean? Ask back? Who is he kidding? There are players under contract for next season so those players will be back. If they're not then they will be traded because they aren't going to eat any salary. Once again, KW trying to be the tough guy instead of just being honest.

Right, it isn't a college team or a club team.

Kenny basically was speaking to the meatballs of the fan base that need this stuff blown up their rear end.

What the Sox need more than anything right now is leadership and energy. This team is one of the most boring, most dull ever. For anyone who played even a varsity high school sport, you know how important it is to NOT BE FLAT. Bad Habits are contagious. There is not one guy on this team offensively who can carry the load. There is not one guy (outside maybe Dunn) who can change an entire game on one swing of the bat or one great trip on the basepaths.

I think when Rios commented on the energy Texas has, that was telling.

If you had to look at guys Kenny may have been talking too, Tank is probably one. You can't play him at first base because you can't handle his offensive production there. 1st is a position where you need to think offense first. His .750 OPS isn't going to hack it.

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 01:43 PM
Right, it isn't a college team or a club team.

Kenny basically was speaking to the meatballs of the fan base that need this stuff blown up their rear end.

What the Sox need more than anything right now is leadership and energy. This team is one of the most boring, most dull ever. For anyone who played even a varsity high school sport, you know how important it is to NOT BE FLAT. Bad Habits are contagious. There is not one guy on this team offensively who can carry the load. There is not one guy (outside maybe Dunn) who can change an entire game on one swing of the bat or one great trip on the basepaths.

I think when Rios commented on the energy Texas has, that was telling.

If you had to look at guys Kenny may have been talking too, Tank is probably one. You can't play him at first base because you can't handle his offensive production there. 1st is a position where you need to think offense first. His .750 OPS isn't going to hack it.

You say he's speaking to the "meatballs" in the fan base then, in the same post, say this team needs intangibles and take a wild guess at who he's talking about. You can't make this **** up. Haha.:D:

eriqjaffe
08-14-2013, 01:48 PM
Technically only 4 players are under contract for next year.I count 5: Danks, Dunn, Ramirez, Keppinger, and Sale.

russ99
08-14-2013, 01:53 PM
If they're willing to eat money, Keppinger has to be DFA'd. I never use the word "unacceptable," but his play really is. He's one of the worst baseball players I've ever seen. He does nothing well. Nothing.

Everything he's done this year is in line with his career averages, except batting average, which fits in real nice with the rest of our team. What are you expecting? Triple Crown?

Plus he had a broken leg in the offseason.

We're only paying him $3.5M too, this isn't like Dunn taking up $15M of the payroll.

BTW - Keppinger can fill a lot of different roles. If he bounces back next year, I'm not averse to having him fill an infield spot for $4M. For reference, Alexei is due to be paid $9.5M next season...

We have bigger fish to fry than Keppinger.

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 01:53 PM
I count 5: Danks, Dunn, Ramirez, Keppinger, and Sale.

Forgot about Keppinger.

TaylorStSox
08-14-2013, 01:56 PM
Everything he's done this year is in line with his career averages, except batting average, which fits in real nice with the rest of our team.

Plus he had a broken leg in the offseason.

We're only paying him $3.5M too, this isn't like Dunn taking up $15M of the payroll.

BTW - Keppinger can fill a lot of different roles. If he bounces back next year, I'm not averse to having him fill an infield spot for $4M.

We have bigger fish to fry than Keppinger.

In 369 plate appearances he has 11 extra base hits. 11! He's absolutely awful defensively. According to WAR, he's the worst player in baseball. I'll take Dunn's productive 15mm every day, all day over Keppinger.

hawkjt
08-14-2013, 02:41 PM
Glad somebody said this. The guy hasn't had a day off in forever. He's probably mentally shot. And yet, despite a rise in errors, he's still making plays not many other SS can, and hitting at a good clip. This is absolutely not a guy you just get rid of. Man, Sox fans this year are nuts.


Correct. Alexei is 2nd in the league in hits since June 7th. He is having his best year at the plate,even tho his homers are down.

He has been among the best SS's defensively,in the league over the last few years....that skill will return...this year is an aberration.

Domeshot17
08-14-2013, 03:09 PM
You say he's speaking to the "meatballs" in the fan base then, in the same post, say this team needs intangibles and take a wild guess at who he's talking about. You can't make this **** up. Haha.:D:

haha, I never claimed to be the smartest guy in the room, I just act like it. :smile:

Honestly, I mean I get his speech. Its the whole "CHICAGO TOUGH GRINDER THIS EFFORT DOES NOT FLY CHANGES ARE COMING HOORAH YAY" mentality. We have a lot of fans that need that said to keep interest. I think the delivery was my issue, not the mentality.

That said, I do think there is a noticeable lack of effort by some guys.

TheVulture
08-15-2013, 02:19 PM
"Marcus Semien was named the Southern League Topps Player of the Month for July after batting .372 with eight home runs and 20 RBIs for Double-A Birmingham. Semien, 22, led the Southern League in batting average, runs (28), walks (29), hits (35), extra-base hits (18), total bases (70), on-base percentage (.524), slugging percentage (.745) and OPS (1.269) in the month."

Holy crap...I know people will probably say it would be rushing him, but I say strike while the iron's hot. If 35 hits and 29 walks along with eight homeruns in a single month to go along with a hole in the Sox infield doesn't say "call me up" I don't know what does.

Anyone know anything about his defensive abilities? From what I've read, "competent" seems to be the general description.

kittle42
08-15-2013, 03:23 PM
In 369 plate appearances he has 11 extra base hits. 11! He's absolutely awful defensively. According to WAR, he's the worst player in baseball. I'll take Dunn's productive 15mm every day, all day over Keppinger.

Excellent point. Wouldn't expect any of the board's Dunn bashers to think about it!

MARTINMVP
08-16-2013, 09:35 AM
Most people still don't want to sit in the upper deck. Other teams with that same issue have simply lowered the ticket prices in the upper deck. The Tampa Bay Rays charge $12 for any seat in the upper deck. Wouldn't it make more sense for the White Sox to charge $12 for every seat in the upper deck at the Cell? Having one set cheap price in the upper deck would be a good PR move for the White Sox. It would also attract more fans to the games. The more fans at the games usually means more money spent on concessions and parking.

I will NEVER, EVER sit in the upperdeck again unless the ballpark is so jammed that I have no choice but to.

Upperdeck tickets are already dirt cheap and are usually given away for free (as was the case with my tickets this past Saturday after buying a set of new car tires). The upperdeck is as bad as Wrigely's bleachers. Fraternities, family reunions -- large groups of people there to drink and socialize without having any interest in the game, win or lose.

All because those people either got those tickets for cheap or for nothing.

No thank you.

doublem23
08-16-2013, 09:44 AM
Most people still don't want to sit in the upper deck. Other teams with that same issue have simply lowered the ticket prices in the upper deck. The Tampa Bay Rays charge $12 for any seat in the upper deck. Wouldn't it make more sense for the White Sox to charge $12 for every seat in the upper deck at the Cell? Having one set cheap price in the upper deck would be a good PR move for the White Sox. It would also attract more fans to the games. The more fans at the games usually means more money spent on concessions and parking.

Uh, the Sox have lowered ticket prices in the Upper Deck, depending the day of the week, UD tickets are priced anywhere from $5-$10 or $7-$16 with the exception of the very front rows of the Upper Box sections (which are good seats).

sager729
08-16-2013, 10:30 AM
The Sox need to concentrate on getting offensive players like Marcus Semien. He is showing power, patience and getting on base at over a .400 rate. Another guy who I would like to see get a shot next year is 1B Dan Black from Birmingham, I know he is 26, but he is a good hitter and gets on base very nicely. Semien could be like Beckham in his rookie year, start at 3B and maybe transition to a different position. But the offense needs to concentrate on guys that can get on base. I like Alexei, but he doesn't get on base enough, he is nothing more than a #6 or 7 hitter in a good lineup.

Also the Sox need to be in Jose Dariel Abreu, the 26 year old 1B from Cuba. His stats are borderline stupid. Bringing in a guy that may cost a good amount of money, but how often can you get a 26 year old power hitter without giving up any prospects.

I am also completely against signing guys like Ellsbury. He really depends on his legs to play his game and he is only getting older. The Sox need to stop giving guys in their 30's long term deals. Honestly with the free agent list at the moment, the only guy I really would want to sign is Eric O'Flaherty and he is coming off surgery. He would give the Sox a top flight lefty to go with the others.

The rotation and bullpen should be solid for a while. If I had my way, I hope for some guys to have really good years, but plan to use next season as a starting point and getting reads on certain players or showcasing some to trade at the deadline. My 25 as it stands right now would be this

C- Josh Phegley, Tyler Flowers
1B- Dan Black/Andy Wilkins, Adam Dunn
2B- Gordon Beckham
3B- Connor Gillaspie, Jeff Keppinger
SS- Alexei Ramirez
OF- Alejandro De Aza
OF- Avisail Garcia, Jordan Danks/Blake Tekotte
OF- Dayan Viciedo

SP- Chris Sale, John Danks, Jose Quintana, Hector Santiago, Andre Rienzo

BP- Addison Reed, Eric O'Flaherty, Matt Lindstrom, Nate Jones, Donnie Veal/Charlie Leesman, Jake Petricka, Daniel Webb

Then the top 5 guys who are basically or close to major league ready are Marcus Semien, Leury Garcia, Erik Johnson, Dan Black/Andy Wilkins and Carlos Sanchez.

I still believe with the Sox pitching all around and the money to spend on amatuer talent and free agents, the Sox can compete in just a few years.

doublem23
08-16-2013, 10:36 AM
C- Josh Phegley, Tyler Flowers
1B- Dan Black/Andy Wilkins, Adam Dunn
2B- Gordon Beckham
3B- Connor Gillaspie, Jeff Keppinger
SS- Alexei Ramirez
OF- Alejandro De Aza
OF- Avisail Garcia, Jordan Danks/Blake Tekotte
OF- Dayan Viciedo

No offense, but oof... That team might not score 300 runs all season.

sager729
08-16-2013, 10:51 AM
I never said it would be good, but the other alternative is going out and spending $15-20M on guys like Ellsbury, Choo, Pence and others and that doesn't get the Sox anywhere closer to winning a championship. To make that team even worse, with good first halves, guys like Dunn, Ramirez and Lindstrom would be trade bait. But it would be better for the long term flexibility of this team.

Hitmen77
08-19-2013, 05:34 PM
I will NEVER, EVER sit in the upperdeck again unless the ballpark is so jammed that I have no choice but to.

Upperdeck tickets are already dirt cheap and are usually given away for free (as was the case with my tickets this past Saturday after buying a set of new car tires). The upperdeck is as bad as Wrigely's bleachers. Fraternities, family reunions -- large groups of people there to drink and socialize without having any interest in the game, win or lose.

All because those people either got those tickets for cheap or for nothing.

No thank you.

IMO, some of the better seats in the park are behind home plate in the upper deck.

jdm2662
08-19-2013, 05:41 PM
IMO, some of the better seats in the park are behind home plate in the upper deck.

Yes.

If you want to see the whole action, the best seats are behind home plate in the UD. I never miss anything in those seats.

slavko
08-19-2013, 05:56 PM
Yes.

If you want to see the whole action, the best seats are behind home plate in the UD. I never miss anything in those seats.

You're spoiling it for me. Mum's the word.

Brian26
08-19-2013, 08:03 PM
In 369 plate appearances he has 11 extra base hits. 11! He's absolutely awful defensively. According to WAR, he's the worst player in baseball. I'll take Dunn's productive 15mm every day, all day over Keppinger.

That's absolutely unbelievable. I did not realize he had been that unproductive. I know this post is a few days old, so he's up to 388 PA: 3 HRs, 8 2B, and one triple. 12 extra base hits on the entire year.

SoxSpeed22
08-19-2013, 09:05 PM
I'm okay with letting Dunn play 1st next year (who btw, has been hitting over .300 since June). They still need to make some changes. I would hope that whatever is going on in Alexei's life settles down soon. I would still rather trade him though and try and get younger in the infield. This offseason, they need to sign another outfielder, a right handed 8th inning guy, a catcher and another bat. That may be a bit much, but there are options out there.

Tragg
08-19-2013, 09:22 PM
Well, we need a 1B, 3B and CF.
We can get by with a defensive C (the premium on offensive catchers is really high) and a defensive SS.
We may have holes there depending on Dunn and Alexei.
I hope we fill at least 2 of those holes this year and the rest the following year.
I'd prefer to move Dunn, get a 1st baseman, and let Viciedo and De Aza rotate LF and DH and maybe some 1B.