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View Full Version : *Official* 8/1 We're Coming For You, Astros Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
08-01-2013, 01:33 PM
How do you get swept in two four game-series by the same team twice? Oh yeah. We're just that bad.

Chez
08-01-2013, 01:34 PM
Ryan Frickin' Raburn. The Legend Continues. I'm still pretty confident that we will win a game this week.

cleanwsox
08-01-2013, 01:36 PM
At least they aren't playing favorites within the division and giving anyone a tough time.

JB98
08-01-2013, 01:40 PM
The White Sox had an opportunity to get back in this game in the top of the seventh inning -- bases loaded, one out. Unfortunately, Flowers was at the plate. It's funny how the game finds you when you suck. He struck out on a slider that was three feet outside. He couldn't have hit that pitch with an oar.

It was a rough afternoon for Sale. He had his fastball, but he made a lot of mistakes with his offspeed pitches. Too many high changeups and a couple of breaking balls that were left up as well. I like that Ventura pulled him after five innings even though he hadn't thrown 80 pitches. Sale was struggling, and there's no need to push him too hard when you're out of the pennant race and already down four or five runs in a game. No harm in letting Axelrod get his work in.

The home run by Raburn in the third inning was the cheapest one I've seen hit off a Sox pitcher this season. That's a pop up that normally wouldn't carry to the warning track, and the wind blew it into the first row just inside the right field foul pole. Raburn just has the Sox number. It's been that way for years.

thomas35forever
08-01-2013, 01:45 PM
The home run by Raburn in the third inning was the cheapest one I've seen hit off a Sox pitcher this season. That's a pop up that normally wouldn't carry to the warning track, and the wind blew it into the first row just inside the right field foul pole. Raburn just has the Sox number. It's been that way for years.
No kidding. That really pissed me off. As I said earlier this week, when it rains, it pours.

KingXerxes
08-01-2013, 01:54 PM
I had thought the White Sox bottomed out a few weeks ago when they lost both ends of a doubleheader against Cleveland at home.

Nope.

When the took a couple from the Tigers in Detroit, I thought for sure the slump was over.

Nope.

Is today the bottom?

We'll see.

The comparisons to the 1970 White Sox are apt, but if they keep playing in the manner they played today, maybe a comparison to the 1899 Cleveland Spiders would be more in order.

mahagga73
08-01-2013, 01:54 PM
The Astros probably assumed they were getting a 1 pick . They have to be scratching their heads someone fielded a team equally as bad.

Stanley
08-01-2013, 02:13 PM
You guys still watch this stuff? Man... Guess it takes a certain kind of fan to subject yourself to that.

I was going to say I'd tune in again when they call up some ML players but with no one down there tearing it up and ready for a call up --besides possibly the newly acquired Garcia, oh and the Brazillian guy-- I'm not sure I'll be able to rationalize watching the Sox over doing...anything else at all.

LITTLE NELL
08-01-2013, 02:22 PM
I'm at a loss for words on how bad this team is.

SOXSINCE'70
08-01-2013, 02:27 PM
I'm at a loss for words on how bad this team is.

I can't watch anymore.This is too difficult for even die hard fans to watch.TWTW should stand for The Will To Watch.

I've lost mine.At least for now.Gawd,this is depressing.:(:

tstrike2000
08-01-2013, 02:40 PM
The White Sox had an opportunity to get back in this game in the top of the seventh inning -- bases loaded, one out. Unfortunately, Flowers was at the plate. It's funny how the game finds you when you suck. He struck out on a slider that was three feet outside. He couldn't have hit that pitch with an oar.

It was a rough afternoon for Sale. He had his fastball, but he made a lot of mistakes with his offspeed pitches. Too many high changeups and a couple of breaking balls that were left up as well. I like that Ventura pulled him after five innings even though he hadn't thrown 80 pitches. Sale was struggling, and there's no need to push him too hard when you're out of the pennant race and already down four or five runs in a game. No harm in letting Axelrod get his work in.

The home run by Raburn in the third inning was the cheapest one I've seen hit off a Sox pitcher this season. That's a pop up that normally wouldn't carry to the warning track, and the wind blew it into the first row just inside the right field foul pole. Raburn just has the Sox number. It's been that way for years.

Rios, Alexei, Dunn, Keppinger, and Flowers can all go away.

JB98
08-01-2013, 02:40 PM
You guys still watch this stuff? Man... Guess it takes a certain kind of fan to subject yourself to that.

I was going to say I'd tune in again when they call up some ML players but with no one down there tearing it up and ready for a call up --besides possibly the newly acquired Garcia, oh and the Brazillian guy-- I'm not sure I'll be able to rationalize watching the Sox over doing...anything else at all.

I have all winter to not watch baseball.

Chez
08-01-2013, 02:41 PM
I remember after last season's team ran out of gas at the end, many posters were saying that losing a late season lead is worse than outright sucking for the entire (or most of the) season. IMO, this is much, much worse.

JB98
08-01-2013, 02:44 PM
I remember after last season's team ran out of gas at the end, many posters were saying that losing a late season lead is worse than outright sucking for the entire (or most of the) season. IMO, this is much, much worse.

Agreed. 16-42 in the last 58 games. I don't think even the most pessimistic among us thought it would get this bad. Coming into the season, I could have foreseen a scenario where things went wrong and they ended up between 70 and 75 wins. But I never could have predicted that they'd labor just to get to 60 wins. That's the scenario that is unfolding right now.

russ99
08-01-2013, 02:44 PM
The Astros probably assumed they were getting a 1 pick . They have to be scratching their heads someone fielded a team equally as bad.

The Astros are playing OK baseball of late. With Cosart and Villar up, and Springer on the way really soon, there's at least a decent chance they may not end up with the 1st pick.

They have pretty good starting pitching, even with Cosart taking over for Norris, but their biggest issue is a porous bullpen, responsible for most of their recent losses. Especially with their only good pen arm Veras traded.

Astros have 36 wins, the Sox 40 and Marlins 41. The Brewers may flop enough without Braun to get in the conversation They're at 46 wins, and the Twins at 45.

SI1020
08-01-2013, 02:46 PM
Rios, Alexei, Dunn, Keppinger, and Flowers can all go away. Almost the entire team can go away. They are that bad.

Chez
08-01-2013, 02:56 PM
Agreed. 16-42 in the last 58 games. I don't think even the most pessimistic among us thought it would get this bad. Coming into the season, I could have foreseen a scenario where things went wrong and they ended up between 70 and 75 wins. But I never could have predicted that they'd labor just to get to 60 wins. That's the scenario that is unfolding right now.

When I think back to how much fun it was to be at the ballpark for that Monday afternoon make-up game in September when the Sox beat the Tigers -- after Alex Rios' (yes, that Alex Rios) hard slide into second led to two unearned runs compared to how I feel now?! With 8 more weeks of this to go?! It's gotta get better, right?

LITTLE NELL
08-01-2013, 03:03 PM
Can't someone at least smash the water cooler or dugout phone? Of course most of the guys would probably swing and miss and wrench their back or something like that.

Stanley
08-01-2013, 03:05 PM
I have all winter to not watch baseball.

A highlight on mlb.com will do for me unless things improve dramatically.

The fact that football is starting to dominate the media already makes this season suck way more.

JB98
08-01-2013, 03:06 PM
Almost the entire team can go away. They are that bad.

The list of players who can stay is probably shorter. Just for grins, let's test the theory. (Current 25-man only)

Players I'd keep for 2014 (11):
Sale, Quintana, Santiago, John Danks, Rienzo, Reed, Jones, Phegley, Beckham, Viciedo, De Aza.

Players I would not keep (12):
Konerko, Flowers, Keppinger, Rios, Jordan Danks, Gillaspie, Troncoso, Veal, Purcey, Axelrod, Lindstrom, Wells.

Player I could go either way on (2):
Dunn, Ramirez.

Yeah, most of 'em can take a hike.

JB98
08-01-2013, 03:10 PM
When I think back to how much fun it was to be at the ballpark for that Monday afternoon make-up game in September when the Sox beat the Tigers -- after Alex Rios' (yes, that Alex Rios) hard slide into second led to two unearned runs compared to how I feel now?! With 8 more weeks of this to go?! It's gotta get better, right?

I wouldn't count on it getting better. Aside from the 10 games remaining with Minnesota, one series with Houston and a makeup with Toronto, the Sox play teams that are above .500. They are going to get their asses kicked.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-01-2013, 03:13 PM
In 2005 the White Sox took the Astros chance at a championship, now in 2013 they're looking to take the #1 draft pick away. We can do it!!!! :?:

Stanley
08-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Players I'd keep for 2014 (3 for sure, realistically 5):
Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana (though mostly only because of what we'd have without him), Santiago (see: Quintana)

Players I would not keep (13):
Konerko, Flowers, Keppinger, Rios, Jordan Danks, Gillaspie, Troncoso, Veal, Purcey, Axelrod, Lindstrom, Wells, Viciedo

Player I could go either way on (6):
Ramirez, John Danks (if he returns to form, otherwise, please get swallowed by a sinkhole), Rienzo, Phegley, De Aza, Beckham

RCWHITESOX
08-01-2013, 03:19 PM
The list of players who can stay is probably shorter. Just for grins, let's test the theory. (Current 25-man only)

Players I'd keep for 2014 (11):
Sale, Quintana, Santiago, John Danks, Rienzo, Reed, Jones, Phegley, Beckham, Viciedo, De Aza.

Players I would not keep (12):
Konerko, Flowers, Keppinger, Rios, Jordan Danks, Gillaspie, Troncoso, Veal, Purcey, Axelrod, Lindstrom, Wells.

Player I could go either way on (2):
Dunn, Ramirez.

Yeah, most of 'em can take a hike.

I agree with you with the exception of DeAza and Gillaspie. I hope they move DeAza as he seems to lack basic baseball fundamentals or he just is not very bright.

doublem23
08-01-2013, 03:25 PM
I agree with you with the exception of DeAza and Gillaspie. I hope they move DeAza as he seems to lack basic baseball fundamentals or he just is not very bright.

De Aza and Gillaspie for me are players I don't mind if they keep around but not as guaranteed everyday players. De Aza as your 4th OF? Fine. Gillaspie as one of your 2 UIF? Great. Giving them a combined 1,100 plate appearances? Bad.

Problem is there's a laundry list of other players that also need to be replaced. Yikes, what a mess.

JB98
08-01-2013, 03:27 PM
I agree with you with the exception of DeAza and Gillaspie. I hope they move DeAza as he seems to lack basic baseball fundamentals or he just is not very bright.

I would like De Aza better if he were a fourth outfielder. But since next year is likely a rebuilding year anyway, I don't mind him hanging around as a veteran stopgap until the Sox can acquire or develop somebody better.

Gillaspie, I just struggle to see anything that he does really well. He doesn't hit for much average. He has only adequate power. He's not slow, but he's not fast either. His defense is OK, but not a plus. Maybe he belongs in the same camp as De Aza -- a stopgap at 3B until they can acquire or develop somebody better.

I feel better about De Aza at the plate than I do Gillaspie. Hell, De Aza has had a more productive season than Rios, although that's damning with faint praise.

russ99
08-01-2013, 04:08 PM
Players I'd keep for 2014 (3 for sure, realistically 5):
Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana (though mostly only because of what we'd have without him), Santiago (see: Quintana)

Players I would not keep (13):
Konerko, Flowers, Keppinger, Rios, Jordan Danks, Gillaspie, Troncoso, Veal, Purcey, Axelrod, Lindstrom, Wells, Viciedo

Player I could go either way on (6):
Ramirez, John Danks (if he returns to form, otherwise, please get swallowed by a sinkhole), Rienzo, Phegley, De Aza, Beckham

I'm with you there - although Phegley, Rienzo and Beckham could end up in the keep column if they improve the rest of the year.

October26
08-01-2013, 04:40 PM
I'm at a loss for words on how bad this team is.

Since that damn series against the Cubs in May, the Sox have completely fallen apart. I keep thinking that this is some sort of nightmare and I am going to wake up and it will all be better. Sadly, that is not the case. I still watch parts of every game, looking for anything positive. Earlier in the year, I was pulling my hair out after every loss. At this point, reality has set in. This is the most miserable season of White Sox baseball that I can remember.

Golden Sox
08-01-2013, 06:55 PM
I'm just wondering, are the White Sox going to call up Garcia soon? Or will he be a September call up? What harm could it possibly do now if they brought him up? Other than seeing him play I don't see any reason to watch this team now. Hopefully Johnson will be called up also.

amsteel
08-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Robin's just making sure that whoever the manager is next year will win AL Manager of the Year as long as they win 80 games.

all*star quentin
08-01-2013, 10:09 PM
I think the Indians make it to the World Series this year. :gulp:

FYI, I hate Detroit.

BainesHOF
08-01-2013, 10:20 PM
Today was one of the most disturbing days of the season for a couple reasons:

Even Sale gave up today. In the fifth you could visably see his attitude go bad, like "(Ef) this!" He was giving up hits and he knew the game was lost, and then he just starting winging the ball up there. It was obvious. Cooper came out to talk to him. And then he didn't go out for the sixth. If I was Ventura, I would have sent him back out there to make a point that quitting isn't allowed.

Earlier in the day, Hahn dismissed any thought that Venutra wasn't doing a good job. His main point was that Ventura is addressing problems behind the scenes. Of course, that misses the point completely. Whatever he's doing, the team has crashed and burned under Ventura to an unprecedented extent in my lifetime. I don't expect Hahn to throw Ventura under the bus, but his riff on Ventura seemed like he genuinely believed what he was saying. That's extremely disturbing, and bodes badly for Hahn's ability to see and address problems.

captain54
08-01-2013, 11:03 PM
Earlier in the day, Hahn dismissed any thought that Venutra wasn't doing a good job.

Ventura is Reinsdorf's boy, like Ozzie was, and even if Hahn thought Ventura needed to be tossed under the bus, he sure as hell wasn't going to do it publicly, on the air...

slavko
08-01-2013, 11:06 PM
Ventura is Reinsdorf's boy, like Ozzie was, and even if Hahn thought Ventura needed to be tossed under the bus, he sure as hell wasn't going to do it publicly, on the air...

GM's don't throw managers under the bus publicly in early August, if they have a shred of sense or maturity. Fans do.

Noneck
08-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Ventura is Reinsdorf's boy,

Everyone with perceived authority is reinsdorf boy, thats why they are in the position they are in.

Sad
08-02-2013, 06:20 AM
when is Air Sickness Bag giveaway day?

Good God
This team blows chunks & is downright embarassing

Can we call up September callups in August?

gobears1987
08-02-2013, 07:19 AM
At least we will have a top 3 draft pick for the ****-ups who run this organization to blow.

samurai_sox
08-02-2013, 08:45 AM
At least we will have a top 3 draft pick for the ****-ups who run this organization to blow.

I think Hahn will do his homework and get us someone good, as long as Kenny keeps away from the draft room.

doublem23
08-02-2013, 09:12 AM
GM's don't throw managers under the bus publicly in early August, if they have a shred of sense or maturity. Fans do.

Yeah, seriously, Hahn has an MBA from one of the top business schools in the world, he's probably smarter than anyone on this board, I'm sure he's aware the team stinks right now, but what good does it do to start an all out media war with your manager? You think any future managers or players are picking the Sox if the GM acts like a maniac?

SI1020
08-02-2013, 09:17 AM
Yeah, seriously, Hahn has an MBA from one of the top business schools in the world, he's probably smarter than anyone on this board, I'm sure he's aware the team stinks right now, but what good does it do to start an all out media war with your manager? You think any future managers or players are picking the Sox if the GM acts like a maniac? While I have no doubt that Hahn is a highly intelligent man, having great credentials doesn't always result in great success.

BigKlu59
08-02-2013, 09:38 AM
I'm at a loss for words on how bad this team is.

... --- ... SNAFU and FUBAR is all you can use at this point to decribe the situation.. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

BK59

BainesHOF
08-02-2013, 10:02 AM
Yeah, seriously, Hahn has an MBA from one of the top business schools in the world.

While that proves he's not a dummy in general, that has little to do with the prospects for his success as a baseball general manager. What he said on the subject of Ventura was dumb.

doublem23
08-02-2013, 10:18 AM
While I have no doubt that Hahn is a highly intelligent man, having great credentials doesn't always result in great success.

Not throwing your employees under the bus for no reason has little to do with one's ability to run a baseball team, it's called Being a Competent Executive 101.

Whether or not Hahn and his scouting staff have the ability to turn this ship around remains to be seen, but he starts going berserk to the media then he sets this organization even farther back.

doublem23
08-02-2013, 10:18 AM
While that proves he's not a dummy in general, that has little to do with the prospects for his success as a baseball general manager. What he said on the subject of Ventura was dumb.

http://prpretaporter.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/public_relations_for_dummies.jpg

TaylorStSox
08-02-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah, seriously, Hahn has an MBA from one of the top business schools in the world, he's probably smarter than anyone on this board, I'm sure he's aware the team stinks right now, but what good does it do to start an all out media war with your manager? You think any future managers or players are picking the Sox if the GM acts like a maniac?

The crying is just getting old. Hahn was sought after for years before he became GM. He chose to stay here.

Hey guys, we know you don't like KW and Jerry. We get it. **** already. The **** is boring to read.

SI1020
08-02-2013, 11:20 AM
The crying is just getting old. Hahn was sought after for years before he became GM. He chose to stay here.

Hey guys, we know you don't like KW and Jerry. We get it. **** already. The **** is boring to read. Every criticism or in my case just a hypothetical example is not an indictment of Reinsdorf. I get doubs point about PR and not throwing your employees under the bus. My point is that high level credentials don't always mean high level success. Your attempts to dictate what can and can't be posted is really ****ing tiresome. Start your own board or just ignore those of us you find unworthy.

DSpivack
08-02-2013, 11:39 AM
Every criticism or in my case just a hypothetical example is not an indictment of Reinsdorf. I get doubs point about PR and not throwing your employees under the bus. My point is that high level credentials don't always mean high level success. Your attempts to dictate what can and can't be posted is really ****ing tiresome. Start your own board or just ignore those of us you find unworthy.

Reminiscent of that scene on the bus in Bull Durham, when anyone in the sports world speaks (whether players, coaches, or front office staff) all I expect to hear are typical boring platitudes and PR speak. Thus, I am much more interested in the actions of people rather than their words. Hahn has been GM for a short amount of time; I will judge him based upon his actions of keeping or not keeping Ventura as manager, and in how he shapes the personnel of the organization. What he says in an interview to the media, however, I expect to learn very little.

doublem23
08-02-2013, 11:43 AM
Reminiscent of that scene on the bus in Bull Durham, when anyone in the sports world speaks (whether players, coaches, or front office staff) all I expect to hear are typical boring platitudes and PR speak. Thus, I am much more interested in the actions of people rather than their words. Hahn has been GM for a short amount of time; I will judge him based upon his actions of keeping or not keeping Ventura as manager, and in how he shapes the personnel of the organization. What he says in an interview to the media, however, I expect to learn very little.

Exactly, I'm not saying Hahn is destined to be a great GM because he has a business degree from Kellogg, most GM's have advanced degrees from excellent schools, but trying to look deep into bland comments he made to a sports radio station is not the way to judge the guy.

tstrike2000
08-02-2013, 11:47 AM
Reminiscent of that scene on the bus in Bull Durham, when anyone in the sports world speaks (whether players, coaches, or front office staff) all I expect to hear are typical boring platitudes and PR speak. Thus, I am much more interested in the actions of people rather than their words. Hahn has been GM for a short amount of time; I will judge him based upon his actions of keeping or not keeping Ventura as manager, and in how he shapes the personnel of the organization. What he says in an interview to the media, however, I expect to learn very little.

Exactly, KW and Hahn are great talkers, which means very little in the grand scheme.

JB98
08-02-2013, 03:56 PM
Exactly, KW and Hahn are great talkers, which means very little in the grand scheme.

No question. We need to judge them on their actions and their results. What they say in the press means little or nothing.

KingXerxes
08-02-2013, 04:55 PM
You guys still watch this stuff? Man... Guess it takes a certain kind of fan to subject yourself to that.

Stanley - Even though the White Sox are struggling mightily, one still must watch the game in order to pick up on all the interesting stories and anecdotes which Ken Harrelson rolls out.

For instance yesterday's game. Around the middle of the game he started spinning some yarn about getting calls consistently from Howard Cosell when both lived in the Hamptons (on the east coast of Long Island). When first asked what they talked about, Ol' Ken uttered the immortal statement of "I can't say", and then, after allowing sufficient time to make up something, he awkwardly talked about how one time Cosell called him and was prattling on and on about two lousy broadcasters he had watched the night before (you see Stanley - If Cosell was talking to Harrelson about lousy broadcasters, then it means Cosell totally respected Harrelson as a broadcaster). It gets even better though - Cosell used to call Harrelson every day, and why wouldn't he?

Yet another "impossible to prove" story involving Ken Harrelson and a dead person - but only if you're watching.

BigKlu59
08-03-2013, 11:27 AM
Stanley - Even though the White Sox are struggling mightily, one still must watch the game in order to pick up on all the interesting stories and anecdotes which Ken Harrelson rolls out.

For instance yesterday's game. Around the middle of the game he started spinning some yarn about getting calls consistently from Howard Cosell when both lived in the Hamptons (on the east coast of Long Island). When first asked what they talked about, Ol' Ken uttered the immortal statement of "I can't say", and then, after allowing sufficient time to make up something, he awkwardly talked about how one time Cosell called him and was prattling on and on about two lousy broadcasters he had watched the night before (you see Stanley - If Cosell was talking to Harrelson about lousy broadcasters, then it means Cosell totally respected Harrelson as a broadcaster). It gets even better though - Cosell used to call Harrelson every day, and why wouldn't he?

Yet another "impossible to prove" story involving Ken Harrelson and a dead person - but only if you're watching.

Yup, sucks when this season has come down to having to listen to Hawk sounding like the drunk Uncle at the family picnic softball game. The yarn's credibility and ego dependent on the amount of bovine excrement, libation and tolerance of boredom of the soiree of said company..

BK59