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thomas35forever
07-30-2013, 10:45 PM
Hope whoever comes is productive for us. Thanks for getting us something, Jake.

amsteel
07-30-2013, 10:51 PM
About $60 million for 48 quality starts. I honestly don't know if that's any good or not.

MountainCur
07-30-2013, 10:52 PM
Jose Igesias.


Does that mean there is a deal for Alexei in the works?

doublem23
07-30-2013, 10:54 PM
Dan Roan on WGN Evening News says it's a three-team deal between the Sox, Sawx, and Tigers. Apparently we get minor leaguers from Detroit.

SportsPg
07-30-2013, 10:54 PM
Should have held out for one of their pitching prospects. They have 3 or 4 good ones, Iglesias is ok, but never will be a real hitter long term. I say meh to this trade :?:

WhiteSox5187
07-30-2013, 10:54 PM
Jose Igesias.


Does that mean there is a deal for Alexei in the works?

According to Twitter it's a three team trade. Peavy to Boston, Igesias to Detroit, A. Garcia to us.

mahagga73
07-30-2013, 10:56 PM
Jose Igesias.
Not top 50 prospect but I guess close.

Does that mean there is a deal for Alexei in the works?
Hopefully. They need players who actually get on base. I heard a stat today that the White Sox have one of the best batting averages with runners in scoring position in the league. This is a great example of how stats lie. They still don't score any runs because nobody gets on base, they have a whole lineup of players who act like a walk is a mortal sin.

SportsPg
07-30-2013, 10:56 PM
According to Twitter it's a three team trade. Peavy to Boston, Igesias to Detroit, A. Garcia to us.

Hmm, don't know A. Garcia - should we be happy? I am happy we didn't get Iglesias - don't think he would help us long term...

mahagga73
07-30-2013, 10:57 PM
Hmm, don't know A. Garcia - should we be happy? I am happy we didn't get Iglesias - don't think he would help us long term...
Why? He's done allright.

Irishsox1
07-30-2013, 10:58 PM
The guy was a big disappointment. How many times did he go on the DL here? Seems like at least 6 different times.

Oh well, another one of Kenny's killer contracts gets moved.

MountainCur
07-30-2013, 10:58 PM
Dan Roan on WGN Evening News says it's a three-team deal between the Sox, Sawx, and Tigers. Apparently we get minor leaguers from Detroit.

Okay. I jumped on the initial reports.

TheVulture
07-30-2013, 11:00 PM
I don't get why the Sox would be interested in helping Detroit acquire a gold glove caliber shortstop

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:01 PM
Are we giving up any cash?

Harry Potter
07-30-2013, 11:01 PM
I don't get why the Sox would be interested in helping Detroit acquire a gold glove caliber shortstop

The city is bankrupt - gotta help out anyway possible

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:02 PM
Sean McAdam ‏@Sean_McAdam 1m (https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/362407154784800770)
Can confirm reports of Peavy coming to Red Sox and Iglesias as part of deal. Also, there is at least one other player Red Sox are dealing.

soltrain21
07-30-2013, 11:03 PM
Should have held out for one of their pitching prospects. They have 3 or 4 good ones, Iglesias is ok, but never will be a real hitter long term. I say meh to this trade :?:

We need position prospects so bad.

doublem23
07-30-2013, 11:04 PM
Hmm, don't know A. Garcia - should we be happy? I am happy we didn't get Iglesias - don't think he would help us long term...

Minor League Stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=garcia001avi

Bullish Scouting Report: http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2982

More Skeptical Scouting Report: http://www.blessyouboys.com/detroit-tigers-prospect-report/2012/12/4/3725478/scouting-report-of-avisail-garcia

doublem23
07-30-2013, 11:05 PM
Oh well, another one of Kenny's killer contracts gets moved.

Peavy's current deal was worked out by Hahn

Boondock Saint
07-30-2013, 11:05 PM
I know the deal's just done, but things are really confusing. Is Garcia all we got?

russ99
07-30-2013, 11:06 PM
While Avisail Garcia isn't one of those over-hyped buzz prospects, he's a pretty solid add, and he's an MLB-ready player.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2982

http://www.blessyouboys.com/detroit-tigers-prospect-report/2012/12/4/3725478/scouting-report-of-avisail-garcia

Plays all three OF positions, best in RF. Hmm, could replace Rios as early as tomorrow...

Hope the Sox got a bunch more, or a little more and that they don't have to eat salary. On Peavy's contract.

vinny
07-30-2013, 11:06 PM
We get Avisail Garcia, Iglesias goes to Detroit, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today and MLB Network Radio.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garciav01.shtml

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:08 PM
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 39s (https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/362408763338145792)
Great move by the #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash), not only dumping Peavy's contract, but getting Garcia from the #Tigers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Tigers&src=hash), an All-Star in waiting

russ99
07-30-2013, 11:10 PM
Rosenthal tweeted that there's more names. So hopefully the Sox got a B prospect or two from Boston too. Rosenthal tweeted that The Sox aren't eating salary.

KRS1
07-30-2013, 11:13 PM
Yeah, not at all enamored with Garcia, but I'll wait and hope. Should be something more coming from Boston's end.

MountainCur
07-30-2013, 11:13 PM
I was going to say - Boston has to be giving up more. Iglesias for Peavy would be a steal for them.

BainesHOF
07-30-2013, 11:13 PM
Just reading up on Garcia. He's a quality prospect who just turned 22 last month. Sounds like he's ready for the big leagues right now.

Good job (for once), Hahn.

Now it's time to trade Rios and see if we can dump Ramirez, Keppinger and Lindstrom. Still hoping to see Danks and De Aza gone, too.

WisSoxFan
07-30-2013, 11:14 PM
So Alexei is not involved? A lot of speculation in rumors thread that he was headed to Detroit.

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:14 PM
Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes 5m (https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/362409572071256065)
Iglesias to Tigers, 2 or 3 lesser prospects to White Sox, Det OF Avisal Garcia to White Sox, pitcher from Det also coming to Boston

DSpivack
07-30-2013, 11:15 PM
So Alexei is not involved?

Nope.

russ99
07-30-2013, 11:15 PM
Just reading up on Garcia. He's a quality prospect who just turned 22 last month. Sounds like he's ready for the big leagues right now.

Good job (for once), Hahn.

Now it's time to trade Rios and see if we can dump Ramirez, Keppinger and Lindstrom. Still hoping to see Danks and De Aza gone, too.

I also like that he's hit for average at every minor league level.

A good bet on a size/athletic player who could turn into something pretty solid in the South Side.

SoxFanCPA
07-30-2013, 11:15 PM
Just reading up on Garcia. He's a quality prospect who just turned 22 last month. Sounds like he's ready for the big leagues right now.

Good job (for once), Hahn.

Now it's time to trade Rios and see if we can dump Ramirez, Keppinger and Lindstrom. Still hoping to see Danks and De Aza gone, too.

Haha, yeah right.

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:16 PM
Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 9s (https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/362411272714715137)
As a 21-year-old rookie, Avisail Garcia went 5 for 11 with a double, 3 RBIs and a SB in the ALCS last year vs. Yankees

mahagga73
07-30-2013, 11:16 PM
If the White Sox are more concerned with saving money than actually getting good prospects that's really going to be disconcerting.

TomBradley72
07-30-2013, 11:17 PM
Looks like a very good, major league ready OF prospect- exactly what we needed- and traded from strength- starting pitching.

I like it.

He has a cannon arm- so gotta believe hes headed for RF and hopefully Rios move is coming.

We desperately need a CF, 1B and 3B- would love to see Hahn fill one of those holes with another move.

The with the salaries of Konerko, Peavy, Crain, Thornton off the books- fill the other holes via FA in the offseason.

soltrain21
07-30-2013, 11:18 PM
If the White Sox are more concerned with saving money than actually getting good prospects that's really going to be disconcerting.

How is this not a good ML ready young player? You know there were huge injury concerns with Peavy.

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:19 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 52s (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/362411682640826368)
Detroit RHP Brayan Villarreal may also be in this three-way Peavy deal

ND_Sox_Fan
07-30-2013, 11:19 PM
I also like that he's hit for average at every minor league level.

A good bet on a size/athletic player who could turn into something pretty solid in the South Side.

Agreed; Garcia certainly hasn't been the HR-or-nothing kind of hitter that we have in spades.

dwalteroo
07-30-2013, 11:20 PM
If Hahn pulled off unloading all of Peavy's contract with a decent prospect in return (as it seems), kudos to him. Well done.

Brian26
07-30-2013, 11:21 PM
How is this not a good ML ready young player? You know there were huge injury concerns with Peavy.

If the Garcia kid pans out, he could be our RF for the next ten years. And if the Sox didn't have to eat Peavy's money, that's some extra cash to plug some holes intelligently for next year. Probably a good move. Tough to see Peavy go, but not that tough.

Harry Potter
07-30-2013, 11:23 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo52s (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/362411682640826368)
Detroit RHP Brayan Villarreal may also be in this three-way Peavy deal

Yes, but to Boston (not the WSox)

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:24 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 1m (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/362412995239878656)
From what I've been able to piece together three other Red Sox minor leaguers and Iglesias are in the deal. Villareal, a Tiger RH to Boston.

russ99
07-30-2013, 11:25 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 52s (https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/362411682640826368)
Detroit RHP Brayan Villarreal may also be in this three-way Peavy deal

Sounds like he's going to Boston.

If we can somehow land Middlebrooks and Garcia, plus a few lesser prospects, this will be a great trade for the Sox.

mahagga73
07-30-2013, 11:25 PM
How is this not a good ML ready young player? You know there were huge injury concerns with Peavy.

True, I guess I would just hate for the issue of Peavy's remaining salary to cost the team a prospect or two. I don't know much about this guy but I like Iglesias and was kind of hoping Alexei could go elsewhere soon .

cards press box
07-30-2013, 11:26 PM
I like what I am hearing about this trade, so far. Garcia could be the Sox right fielder for a long time. I was very impressed with Garcia's play last year with the Tigers. If the Tigers hadn't signed Torii Hunter, Garcia would have been in RF for Detroit this year.

For the Tigers to deal Garcia to the Sox, they must know that Peralta is going to be lost for the season and they had to get a SS, no matter what. And due to Bucholz' injury, Boston really needed a starter.

If the prospects from Boston coming to Chicago offer anything, this could be a great deal for the Sox!

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:26 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 50s (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/362413504155762688)
One longtime evaluator likes the White Sox part of this deal, because of the promise of Avisail Garcia

anewman35
07-30-2013, 11:26 PM
If the White Sox are more concerned with saving money than actually getting good prospects that's really going to be disconcerting.

Even if the Sox didn't pick up any of the money, this hardly seems like it was a salary dump type of trade where this complaint would make sense. We don't know the details, but you can't just assume that if the Sox had thrown in some more money that they could have gotten any prospect they wanted.

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:28 PM
Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier1m (https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/362413996403470337)
Believe athletic 2B Cleuluis Rondon of Lowell is in the deal.

mahagga73
07-30-2013, 11:29 PM
Even if the Sox didn't pick up any of the money, this hardly seems like it was a salary dump type of trade where this complaint would make sense. We don't know the details, but you can't just assume that if the Sox had thro wn in some more money that they could have gotten any prospect they wanted.

Your right.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2013, 11:30 PM
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg Jon HeymanVerified account ‏@JonHeymanCBS (https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS)

#chisox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23chisox&src=hash) land 3 prospects, low-level guys, from #redsox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23redsox&src=hash) in peavy deal. also received avisail garcia from #tigers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23tigers&src=hash) in 3-way.

QCIASOXFAN
07-30-2013, 11:30 PM
I was hoping to get a position player, but Garcia is an absolute stud. Good work from the Sox here.

russ99
07-30-2013, 11:30 PM
Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier1m (https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/362413996403470337)
Believe athletic 2B Cleuluis Rondon of Lowell is in the deal.

Rijo was the #10 international prospect, he's a SS from the Dominican Republic.

Soxman219
07-30-2013, 11:31 PM
Tigers board was saying Garcia was a Miguel Cabrera in waiting last year, so I'm happy with this move. Hope we get more prospects for this.

CoopaLoop
07-30-2013, 11:32 PM
A top 100 prospect is now in the White Sox system. Hallelujah.

cards press box
07-30-2013, 11:33 PM
He has a cannon arm- so gotta believe hes headed for RF and hopefully Rios move is coming.

I agree. If Rios doesn't get dealt by tomorrow, I have to imagine that he gets moved in the offseason.

We desperately need a CF, 1B and 3B- would love to see Hahn fill one of those holes with another move. . . with the salaries of Konerko, Peavy, Crain, Thornton off the books- fill the other holes via FA in the offseason.

The Sox could definitely use a CF, 1B and maybe 3B, too. Gillaspie has not hit lefties at all. The Sox could use a DH, too. Maybe they sign someone like Brian McCann who can DH some and catch some. I suppose the Sox interest in McCann depends on whether the Braves make a qualifying offer to him.

But I agree with your larger point. Salary is coming off the Sox' books. Rios might be next and maybe Dunn, too. With financial flexibility, the Sox can sign some free agents to supplement the players they acquire in trades.

Boondock Saint
07-30-2013, 11:34 PM
A top 100 prospect is now in the White Sox system. Hallelujah.

It'll be a nice feeling until the guys who rate those prospects see that he's in our system now, and drop him completely off of it.

shingo10
07-30-2013, 11:34 PM
To get such a great prospect AND not have to eat the salary makes this an exceptional deal in my opinion. Of course that's assuming we aren't eating any of the salary.

This is the most excited I have been since May.

Parrothead
07-30-2013, 11:36 PM
at least they got rid of peavy's money. we'll see how this guy does. I just hope the Sox scouts aren't as bad as they were in the past and could actually spot talent.

Soxman219
07-30-2013, 11:37 PM
Hope Rios gets traded tomorrow.

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:39 PM
Ben Badler ‏@BenBadler 11s (https://twitter.com/BenBadler/status/362417054214656000)
Cleuluis Rondon: Really smooth defensive shortstop. As for his bat, well . . . he's a really good defensive shortstop.

Domeshot17
07-30-2013, 11:39 PM
For those who don't follow prospects, Garcia is not really a "great" prospect but he is solid. Right now he's a contact hitter in a power hitters body . He's a young Alex Rios type if he comes close to maxing out, will do everything good and nothing great. The sox did ok in the deal, Detroit not so great and Red Sox won it easily

DSpivack
07-30-2013, 11:41 PM
For those who don't follow prospects, Garcia is not really a "great" prospect but he is solid. Right now he's a contact hitter in a power hitters body . He's a young Alex Rios type if he comes close to maxing out, will do everything good and nothing great. The sox did ok in the deal, Detroit not so great and Red Sox won it easily

Hopefully Rios can be dealt tomorrow and Garcia is Rios' cheaper and similar or even superior replacement.

CoopaLoop
07-30-2013, 11:44 PM
Red Sox Beat Writer:

@AlexSpeier (https://twitter.com/alexspeier) a minor leaguer Red Sox giving up 19-year-old shortstop Cleuluis Rondon of Single-A Lowell

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/80568

CoopaLoop
07-30-2013, 11:48 PM
Hehe, from everyone's favorite Keith Law

Jake (San Diego)



What's the ceiling on Avisail Garcia? Will the power develop?
Klaw (4:13 PM)




More concerned about the lack of any approach at the plate.

TheVulture
07-30-2013, 11:49 PM
The sox did ok in the deal, Detroit not so great and Red Sox won it easily

I don't know how you can reach that conclusion when we don't know the details of the trade yet.

sullythered
07-30-2013, 11:54 PM
I don't know how you can reach that conclusion when we don't know the details of the trade yet.

Or how any conclusion can be drawn on who "won" a trade involving prospects...

doublem23
07-30-2013, 11:55 PM
A top 100 prospect is now in the White Sox system. Hallelujah.

http://www.prospectdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Hawkins-Courtney-CSNChicago.com_.jpg
I think you mean two Top 100 Prospects

doublem23
07-30-2013, 11:56 PM
The sox did ok in the deal, Detroit not so great and Red Sox won it easily

This is, of course, assuming Peavy makes a start every 5 days from here until October, which is a hefty gamble

XplodingScorbord
07-30-2013, 11:56 PM
I don't know how you can reach that conclusion when we don't know the details of the trade yet.

Or, you know what? Let's all go nuts and wait a year and see if Jake's arm falls off and Garcia develops for us.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2013, 11:58 PM
Fun Fact: Avisail is the LF who threw out Dewayne Wise on that boneheaded play at third base last September.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2013, 11:59 PM
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3347906142/374a0f0578a1752227028f4ab9040ba9_normal.jpeg Ken RosenthalVerified account ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)

Deal official: Iglesias to DET for Garcia and Villareal, Garcia and minor leagues Wendelken, Montas, Rondon to CWS for Peavy.

russ99
07-31-2013, 12:02 AM
Lets see which three prospect are coming back before judging this.

If you isolate the Detroit part of the deal:
Detroit gave up Garcia and Villareal for Iglesias

So it stands to reason Garcia and Rondon don't add up to Peavy, even if Boston took his whole contract.

Maybe we got one of their better low-minors pitching prospects.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2013, 12:04 AM
Lets see which three prospect are coming back before judging this.

If you isolate the Detroit part of the deal:
Detroit gave up Garcia and Villareal for Iglesias

So it stands to reason Garcia and Rondon don't add up to Peavy, even if Boston took his whole contract.

Maybe we got one of their better low-minors pitching prospects.

Also in the deal:

Jeffrey Wendelken (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=605525)

Francellis Montas (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=593423)

MountainCur
07-31-2013, 12:04 AM
Montas From http://www.soxprospects.com/players/montas-francelis.htm

Scouting Report: Sturdy pitching frame with strong lower body. Throws from a 3/4 arm slot. Four-seam fastball operates at 96-100 mph. Shows late tail in lower reaches of velocity and ride in the upper reaches. Can be straight at times. Exceptional arm strength. Below-average command and control. Tends to jerk his head off target and is a bit long in the back with arm action. Also throws mid-80s slider, but presently lacks tilt and depth. Flat on approach to the plate. Potential to refine pitch into an average-to-better offering. In the development stages of learning a changeup. Sits 87-88 mph presently with little deception. Slows arm down when throwing. Very rough and raw on the mound. Just learning how to pitch. Late-inning reliever/closer potential.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2013, 12:06 AM
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3347906142/374a0f0578a1752227028f4ab9040ba9_normal.jpeg Ken RosenthalVerified account ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)

Deal official: Iglesias to DET for Garcia and Villareal, Garcia and minor leagues Wendelken, Montas, Rondon to CWS for Peavy.

I can handle that.

PaleHoser
07-31-2013, 12:09 AM
Move Rios and I'll like this trade more. Have to make room for Garcia.

Stanley
07-31-2013, 12:11 AM
Sounds like Hahn is returning the favor for Youk's 10 homers and bulldoginess in that famous Lillibridge trade from a couple years ago. Still wish we had Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard right now, though.

russ99
07-31-2013, 12:12 AM
Montas sounds interesting, looked he was at least in Boston's top 40 prospect list. With the Sox track record of developing pitchers, he could turn into something decent 3-4 years down the line.

The other guy is a AA reliever, not too hopeful on him.

Kind of underwhelming... I wonder what we could have gotten had the Sox eaten some of Peavy's salary?

JermaineDye05
07-31-2013, 12:13 AM
Sounds like Hahn is returning the favor for Youk's 10 homers and bulldoginess in that famous Lillibridge trade from a couple years ago. Still wish we had Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard right now, though.

Is Aaron Poreda even pitching anymore?

shingo10
07-31-2013, 12:17 AM
Detroit reaction on Twitter has mostly been of concern that they traded away a future stud in their own division. A lot of blame going to Peralta as well for being reportedly involved with PEDS .

anewman35
07-31-2013, 12:17 AM
Kind of underwhelming... I wonder what we could have gotten had the Sox eaten some of Peavy's salary?

Lots of obsession here with "eating some of Peavy's salary". The thing is, you usually eat salary when you have somebody on some horribly overpriced contract and you can't trade him otherwise. Peavy is on a pretty reasonable salary, so the Sox didn't have to send money to convince somebody to take him. Also, generally speaking other teams aren't stupid - do you really think that most teams in baseball will give you a really really great prospect just because you threw a extra couple million dollars (that they didn't really need) into the deal?

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:19 AM
\Still wish we had Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard right now, though.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/no_michael_bluth.gif

Is Aaron Poreda even pitching anymore?

No, and Richard is out for the season after undergoing shoulder surgery. His ERA in 12 games this year was 7.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2013, 12:19 AM
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2319862403/ute062vfhw12903nezb5_normal.jpeg Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN (https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN)

#WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash) didn't send any cash to #RedSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RedSox&src=hash) in deal.

Moses_Scurry
07-31-2013, 12:21 AM
Sooooooo ... 2014 rotation,

Sale, Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson/cheap short-term FA like a Feldman type?

With Peavy's frequent DL trips, it doesn't look like they lose much, especially if Danks improves. That number 5 spot is the big wildcard.

russ99
07-31-2013, 12:22 AM
Lots of obsession here with "eating some of Peavy's salary". The thing is, you usually eat salary when you have somebody on some horribly overpriced contract and you can't trade him otherwise. Peavy is on a pretty reasonable salary, so the Sox didn't have to send money to convince somebody to take him. Also, generally speaking other teams aren't stupid - do you really think that most teams in baseball will give you a really really great prospect just because you threw a extra couple million dollars (that they didn't really need) into the deal?

Not a great prospect, but at least someone in their top 20, along with Garcia.

Peavy is signed for another season, he's not a rental. The only reason I can see that the Sox didn't get more from Boston is injury concerns, and being desperate to add a MLB-ready hitter.

The Red Sox traded their weak-hitting SS and a few lesser toss-in prospects for Jake Peavy. Something doesn't compute here.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2013, 12:22 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/no_michael_bluth.gif




I second that and add this:

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab317/monkeyonthelam85/Community/Remedial%20Chaos/troy-scream.gif

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:22 AM
Sooooooo ... 2014 rotation,

Sale, Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson/cheap short-term FA like a Feldman type?

With Peavy's frequent DL trips, it doesn't look like they lose much, especially if Danks improves. That number 5 spot is the big wildcard.

Sale, Danks, and Quintana are definites. Last 2 spots is probably a 4-man race between Hector, Johnson, Reinzo, and Axelrod

MountainCur
07-31-2013, 12:23 AM
I understand Peavy's health, but I still think the Red Sox made off like gangbusters here. Giving up Iglesias and some prospects with low ceilings for the best starting pitcher up for grabs right now looks good for them.

The thing is, though, that I don't feel like we got a raw deal at all, I somewhat like it.

I guess Detroit might have gotten the worst part of the deal, but they do improve their defense and fill what is probably going to be a big need in the next few days.

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:24 AM
Montas sounds interesting, looked he was at least in Boston's top 40 prospect list. With the Sox track record of developing pitchers, he could turn into something decent 3-4 years down the line.

The other guy is a AA reliever, not too hopeful on him.

Kind of underwhelming... I wonder what we could have gotten had the Sox eaten some of Peavy's salary?

Well, look at this way: the Sox just cleared a lot of salary off the books. That will certainly help with regard to free agents next winter. The Sox also acquired Avisail Garcia, a 22 year old right fielder with a cannon for an arm who has hit well (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=garcia001avi) in the minors. The Red Sox threw in Frank Montas, a young and very raw hard thrower who could be a closer down the line. I agree about Wendelken -- he was a college draftee who is relieving in A ball. He has pitched well but doesn't have a lot of upside. Rondon is a good field, no hit SS. So the keys here are: (1) payroll flexibility, (2) Avisail Garcia and (3) maybe the Sox found another hard throwing future closer.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 12:25 AM
Some here expected way too much in return for the Sox players on the block. At least the Sox finally got some kind of return. Crain and Thornton got the Sox nothing. Earlier in the year some expected a nice return on them, Rios and Peavy. We will find out tomorrow on Rios but Im not holding my breath for much in return.

CoopaLoop
07-31-2013, 12:25 AM
Agree with Red Sox winning this especially considering their best prospect is a short stop who is pretty close to major league ready.

PalehosePlanet
07-31-2013, 12:25 AM
Montas sounds interesting, looked he was at least in Boston's top 40 prospect list. With the Sox track record of developing pitchers, he could turn into something decent 3-4 years down the line.

The other guy is a AA reliever, not too hopeful on him.

Kind of underwhelming... I wonder what we could have gotten had the Sox eaten some of Peavy's salary?

He was their closer in low A ball; a 13th rounder from from 2012 draft.

And the only way cash could have helped a deal is if we were dealing w/a small market money strapped team. I doubt we could have paid the Red Sox to get a better prospect.

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 12:27 AM
Move Rios and I'll like this trade more. Have to make room for Garcia.

I'm all for moving Rios, but there is more than enough room for Garcia in this lineup with or without Rios.

Besides, Garcia's been playing center since last year. According to what I read on a tigers page, he would be the second best OFer defensively on the Tigers right now ahead of Hunter and the Sox center fielder should be in left field anyway. It's possible Garcia will be the Sox CFer.

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:27 AM
Sale, Danks, and Quintana are definites. Last 2 spots is probably a 4-man race between Hector, Johnson, Reinzo, and Axelrod

I agree with Sale, Danks and Quintana but think the last two spots are a 3 man race between Hecor, Johnson and Rienzo. Johnson and Rienzo have upside. Axelrod is really a long man at this point.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2013, 12:28 AM
Crain and Thornton got the Sox nothing.

Granted it's only been 12 games, but Jacobs has been holding his own pretty well in Birmingham so far.

Also, we don't know what the Sox will be getting back from the Rays yet.

russ99
07-31-2013, 12:30 AM
Not that I'm unhappy with the deal, we've needed a young player like Garcia on this team for the longest time.

Just not sure if we got full value for our asset, where salary and health questions were the only reasons he needed to be traded away now, rather than in November.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:30 AM
I agree with Sale, Danks and Quintana but think the last two spots are a 3 man race between Hecor, Johnson and Rienzo. Johnson and Rienzo have upside. Axelrod is really a long man at this point.
No love for Santiago? He's better then the overrated Danks. Danks would be the first pitcher I look to move.

DSpivack
07-31-2013, 12:31 AM
Agree with Red Sox winning this especially considering their best prospect is a short stop who is pretty close to major league ready.

And Boston fans on FB were arguing to me that it was a terrible deal, Peavy was awful and over the hill, and Iglesias was the next Hanley. :rolling:

russ99
07-31-2013, 12:33 AM
And Boston fans on FB were arguing to me that it was a terrible deal, Peavy was awful and over the hill, and Iglesias was the next Hanley. :rolling:

LOL! I guess it true what they say, when the fans of all teams complain about it, it's a good trade. :D:

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:33 AM
Crain and Thornton got the Sox nothing.

We will see what the Sox ultimately get for Crain. But, to be fair, how much return can you expect for an injured reliever who is a free agent at the end of the season? If he comes back soon, the Sox return might be a little better. The Crain trade is really a "trade and follow," if such a thing exists.

As for the Thornton deal, Brandon Jacobs was not a bad return at all. Jacobs broke his left hamate bone last year and was coming back into form within the last month or so. He hit .300 in June and has hit very well (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=jacobs001bra), albeit in just 12 games, for the Birmingham Barons.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 12:34 AM
Granted it's only been 12 games, but Jacobs has been holding his own pretty well in Birmingham so far.

Also, we don't know what the Sox will be getting back from the Rays yet.

Its possible that Jacobs may turn into something or the Sox will get lucky with the Rays but it was expected by some that the system would be restocked by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and Rios. Whatever they get/got for these guys isnt going to turn this club around.

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:35 AM
No love for Santiago? He's better then the overrated Danks. Danks would be the first pitcher I look to move.

Oh no, I am a big fan of Santiago. I see the Sox starting pitching as their strength. Even after the Peavy deal, the Sox have 6 legitimate starters (the remaining four + Rienzo and Johnson).

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 12:37 AM
Sale, Danks, and Quintana are definites. Last 2 spots is probably a 4-man race between Hector, Johnson, Reinzo, and Axelrod

If Hector and Axelrod are in the same race, Hector's about two states ahead.
Santiago's been just as good as Quintana, I don't see how there's any question. I'd take Santiago over Danks as well

KRS1
07-31-2013, 12:38 AM
Tigers board was saying Garcia was a Miguel Cabrera in waiting last year, so I'm happy with this move. Hope we get more prospects for this.
Somebody should let them know that at 21, Miggs was already a World Series champ and one of the best mashers in baseball.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:38 AM
Oh no, I am a big fan of Santiago. I see the Sox starting pitching as their strength. Even after the Peavy deal, the Sox have 6 legitimate starters (the remaining four + Rienzo and Johnson).
Yea. Since we have a glut of solid to really good lefties. The man I move is Danks over any of them. And he should bring back a nice haul.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:38 AM
I agree with Sale, Danks and Quintana but think the last two spots are a 3 man race between Hecor, Johnson and Rienzo. Johnson and Rienzo have upside. Axelrod is really a long man at this point.

The inclusion of Axelrod in this discussion is mainly with the idea that the Sox may want to start Johnson and/or Reinzo in AAA to start the season.

Also, it's not a slam dunk yet that Reinzo's destiny is the starting rotation.

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:40 AM
Whatever they get from these guys arent going to turn this club around.

Who said that it would? The Sox need to do a lot of things: draft players with upside, deal players that won't be here when the Sox can contend again and shed salary. The Sox are doing all of those things.

Let me put it this way: the Sox need to add assets and they have done that. They have also shed salary which will facilitate the signing of free agents to fill the holes that they have. And the Sox have gotten younger. They needed to do that, too.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:40 AM
The man I move is Danks over any of them. And he should bring back a nice haul.

I remember my first Trade Deadline

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:40 AM
If Hector and Axelrod are in the same race, Hector's about two states ahead.
Santiago's been just as good as Quintana, I don't see how there's any question. I'd take Santiago over Danks as well
I agree. Danks IMO is the odd man out.

cards press box
07-31-2013, 12:41 AM
The inclusion of Axelrod in this discussion is mainly with the idea that the Sox may want to start Johnson and/or Reinzo in AAA to start the season.

Hadn't thought of that. Good point.

JB98
07-31-2013, 12:42 AM
Its possible that Jacobs may turn into something or the Sox will get lucky with the Rays but it was expected by some that the system would be restocked by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and Rios. Whatever they get from these guys arent going to turn this club around.

No, but if the Sox can move Rios and/or Ramirez in addition to the guys that are already gone, they will have given themselves some payroll flexibility for the offseason. Remember, Konerko and Floyd are coming off the books, as well, and neither is likely to return.

The Sox can field a more competitive team next year if they spend their money wisely, and maybe even return to contention in a weak division.

Even with Peavy gone, you've got the pieces to form a competitive starting rotation. Given the choice, I'd rather have starting pitching and be looking for position players than the other way around.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:42 AM
I remember my first Trade Deadline
Everyone is happy for you. Now go to a mirror and reassure yourself how cool you are the only on the internet that cares about what you think.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 12:43 AM
I agree. Danks IMO is the odd man out.

At 14.25M he is in the rotation.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:43 AM
Santiago's been just as good as Quintana, I don't see how there's any question. I'd take Santiago over Danks as well

No he hasn't; Quintana has statistically been one of the Top 10 SP in the American League this season, Hector scratches the Top 30.

I think they both have bright futures on this team, but Quintana has clearly been the better pitcher this year. Clearly.

Danks' struggles really don't mean anything right now, he's working back from a serious arm injury. His peripherals have actually been pretty good, especially his K/BB rate. Only thing that's killing him is the HR rate which isn't unusual for a guy coming off an injury like his. It's going to take some time for him to find his sharpness. Trading him now, with that contract, is tantamount to giving him away. There's no way the Sox get a player whose upside would be more than John's. That's potentially a deadline deal for a later date.

JB98
07-31-2013, 12:44 AM
Yea. Since we have a glut of solid to really good lefties. The man I move is Danks over any of them. And he should bring back a nice haul.

That's pie in the sky. The same reasons you want Danks gone are the same reasons he won't bring back a nice haul.

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 12:44 AM
I agree. Danks IMO is the odd man out.

I wasn't saying that, there's five spots in the rotation.

DSpivack
07-31-2013, 12:45 AM
https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

Garcia will start in Charlotte, but only because he couldn't get consistent ABs with the big league club right now, so sayeth Hahn.

https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:46 AM
At 14.25M he is in the rotation.
He's a commodity. I solid 2 or 3 in a rotation. Someone may bite.

JB98
07-31-2013, 12:46 AM
No he hasn't; Quintana has statistically been one of the Top 10 SP in the American League this season, Hector scratches the Top 30.

I think they both have bright futures on this team, but Quintana has clearly been the better pitcher this year. Clearly.

Danks' struggles really don't mean anything right now, he's working back from a serious arm injury. His peripherals have actually been pretty good, especially his K/BB rate. Only thing that's killing him is the HR rate which isn't unusual for a guy coming off an injury like his. It's going to take some time for him to find his sharpness. Trading him now, with that contract, is tantamount to giving him away. There's no way the Sox get a player whose upside would be more than John's. That's potentially a deadline deal for a later date.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Danks gets back to his usual effectiveness next year. The first year back from surgery is always rough on a pitcher, although few on this board want to hear it.

But, the fact of the matter is trading Danks now would be the very definition of selling low.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:47 AM
I wasn't saying that, there's five spots in the rotation.
If it was down to Santiago or Danks. I'm agreeing and Santiago is the better option. I think we'll have 2 righties in the Rotation.

Foulke You
07-31-2013, 12:50 AM
https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

Garcia will start in Charlotte, but only because he couldn't get consistent ABs with the big league club right now, so sayeth Hahn.

https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

With all of the mashers in our lineup, I can understand why Garcia can't crack the big league roster. :tongue::tongue: Seriously, I hope this is only until Hahn can clear De Aza or Rios in a trade. Get this kid as many rips in the big leagues as you possibly can.

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 12:50 AM
No he hasn't; Quintana has statistically been one of the Top 10 SP in the American League this season, Hector scratches the Top 30.



Only because Hector didn't start at the beginning of the season. Santiago has a 2.94 ERA and more than 10 k/9 in his starts with the Sox.

thomas35forever
07-31-2013, 12:51 AM
If it was down to Santiago or Danks. I'm agreeing and Santiago is the better option. I think we'll have 2 righties in the Rotation.
We know what Danks is capable of though. Santiago, we're still learning. I'd rather have Danks for the full year and keep Santiago as a replacement in the rotation if necessary. He's been forced into his current role because of Floyd. If anything, I'd say it's more likely Santiago is a career long reliever.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 12:55 AM
No, but if the Sox can move Rios and/or Ramirez in addition to the guys that are already gone, they will have given themselves some payroll flexibility for the offseason. Remember, Konerko and Floyd are coming off the books, as well, and neither is likely to return.

The Sox can field a more competitive team next year if they spend their money wisely, and maybe even return to contention in a weak division.

Even with Peavy gone, you've got the pieces to form a competitive starting rotation. Given the choice, I'd rather have starting pitching and be looking for position players than the other way around.

I may be wrong but I really think that Ramirez will be tough to get rid of without eating salary (which the Sox hate to do) and the reurn will be little. Rios in my eyes is basically a dump with little return. If the Sox can manage getting rid of these two and now have the money and are willing to spend it, which is not a sure thing, will they be able to get pieces to fill all the holes? The Sox arent the type to overpay FA's so what would be the incentive for these FA's to come to Sox? A young basically unproven pitching staff? Turning around a club that just came off a 95-100 loss season? A team whose best position player in the whole system is Gordon Beckham? I just dont see the bright side as you do.

Foulke You
07-31-2013, 12:56 AM
No, but if the Sox can move Rios and/or Ramirez in addition to the guys that are already gone, they will have given themselves some payroll flexibility for the offseason. Remember, Konerko and Floyd are coming off the books, as well, and neither is likely to return.

The Sox can field a more competitive team next year if they spend their money wisely, and maybe even return to contention in a weak division.

Even with Peavy gone, you've got the pieces to form a competitive starting rotation. Given the choice, I'd rather have starting pitching and be looking for position players than the other way around.
The payroll flexibility for '14 plus the addition of Garcia make this a very solid trade for Hahn. Lots of freed up money should the Sox keep payroll level the same. Rotation has enough young arms to soften the blow of losing Peavy.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 12:57 AM
We know what Danks is capable of though. Santiago, we're still learning. I'd rather have Danks for the full year and keep Santiago as a replacement in the rotation if necessary. He's been forced into his current role because of Floyd. If anything, I'd say it's more likely Santiago is a career long reliever.
Eh I see your point. IMO Santiago has just been great this year. Him and Quintana have been rock solid. If you can get some buyers for Danks I think hard on it.

JB98
07-31-2013, 12:59 AM
I may be wrong but I really think that Ramirez will be tough to get rid of without eating salary (which the Sox hate to do) and the reurn will be little. Rios in my eyes is basically a dump with little return. If the Sox can manage getting rid of these two and now have the money and are willing to spend it, which is not a sure thing, will they be able to get pieces to fill all the holes? The Sox arent the type to overpay FA's so what would be the incentive for these FA's to come to Sox? A young basically unproven pitching staff? Turning around a club that just just came off a 95-100 loss season? A team whose best position player in the whole system is Gordon Beckham? I just dont see the bright side as you do.

It's probably going to take two offseasons. I'm realistic enough to see that. The hope for next year is more along the lines of 1) You've got a starting rotation in place and 2) Nobody in this division sets the world on fire.

Money, playing time and the great city of Chicago would all be incentives for FAs to consider the Sox.

JB98
07-31-2013, 01:01 AM
The payroll flexibility for '14 plus the addition of Garcia make this a very solid trade for Hahn. Lots of freed up money should the Sox keep payroll level the same. Rotation has enough young arms to soften the blow of losing Peavy.

Agreed. Maybe it's not a home run trade, but it's a solid double off the wall, IMO.

I like Garcia. If Rios is moved, Garcia will be our starting RF the next day.

Stanley
07-31-2013, 01:02 AM
He's a commodity. I solid 2 or 3 in a rotation. Someone may bite.

Lmao. I love you, man.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 01:05 AM
It's probably going to take two offseasons. I'm realistic enough to see that. The hope for next year is more along the lines of 1) You've got a starting rotation in place and 2) Nobody in this division sets the world on fire.

Money, playing time and the great city of Chicago would all be incentives for FAs to consider the Sox.


They will get their playing time as they get their money elsewhere. Maybe I underestimate the draw of the city of Chicago.

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 01:06 AM
He's been forced into his current role because of Floyd. If anything, I'd say it's more likely Santiago is a career long reliever.

I disagree. I would say Floyd's injury allowed the superior pitcher who should have been starting to begin with to assume his rightful role. Even with Floyd, Santiago should have been starting ahead of Axelrod IMO.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 01:09 AM
Maybe I underestimate the draw of the city of Chicago.

Chicago is usually rated as one of, if not the, favorite cities of MLB players.

I agree money is probably the biggest issue, though.

RockJock07
07-31-2013, 01:10 AM
https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

Garcia will start in Charlotte, but only because he couldn't get consistent ABs with the big league club right now, so sayeth Hahn.

https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/362431291754422272

The Score just played a little of his teleconference, I was a little surprised to hear that too.

Keith Law talked about a lack of approach at the plate so maybe Hahn wants to have him spend the rest of the season at AAA and start in the OF in 2014.

JB98
07-31-2013, 01:11 AM
They will get their playing time as they get their money elsewhere. Maybe I underestimate the draw of the city of Chicago.

Only time will tell. I think the perception on this board is that the White Sox are a horse**** organization with horse**** management, and that nobody would ever want to play here.

I don't think players in general share that viewpoint.

thomas35forever
07-31-2013, 01:25 AM
Only time will tell. I think the perception on this board is that the White Sox are a horse**** organization with horse**** management, and that nobody would ever want to play here.

I don't think players in general share that viewpoint.
People are just fed up with what's happened recently and KW's shortsightedness on the farm system remains fresh in everyone's mind. It'll take quite a large improvement for fans to have faith in this organization again. A team like the South Side Hitman (as far as entertainment, not just hitting home runs) would do wonders.

Noneck
07-31-2013, 01:32 AM
He's a commodity. I solid 2 or 3 in a rotation. Someone may bite.

With 40+M on the books , a commodity? I dont think so.

sullythered
07-31-2013, 02:04 AM
I remember my first Trade Deadline

I'm only someone on the internet, but this was funny.

Foulke You
07-31-2013, 02:43 AM
It's probably going to take two offseasons. I'm realistic enough to see that. The hope for next year is more along the lines of 1) You've got a starting rotation in place and 2) Nobody in this division sets the world on fire.
I for one am hoping the Sox emulate what was done in Boston rather than what is going on with the Cubs. I know there are people on this board jonesing for a complete tear down but I just feel it isn't necessary. Make some savvy trades this year, smart free agent signings next year, and you can find yourself in contention sooner rather than later. An improved offense would go a long way towards winning a few of these close games we have lost this year.


Money, playing time and the great city of Chicago would all be incentives for FAs to consider the Sox.
Good points. In addition to your points, I'd also add as FA incentives: One of the best training staffs, hitter's ballpark, easier midwest travel schedule, likeable manager, and one of the best Spring Training facilities.

RCWHITESOX
07-31-2013, 02:55 AM
I for one am hoping the Sox emulate what was done in Boston rather than what is going on with the Cubs. I know there are people on this board jonesing for a complete tear down but I just feel it isn't necessary. Make some savvy trades this year, smart free agent signings next year, and you can find yourself in contention sooner rather than later. An improved offense would go a long way towards winning a few of these close games we have lost this year.


Good points. In addition to your points, I'd also add as FA incentives: One of the best training staffs, hitter's ballpark, easier midwest travel schedule, likeable manager, and one of the best Spring Training facilities.

Man I love it. People actually being positive for a change.I agree; give Hahn time to turn things around and just maybe he will get the job done.

ZombieRob
07-31-2013, 04:35 AM
With 40+M on the books , a commodity? I dont think so.

I think so. There's big boy teams out there where money doesn't matter all to much. Even if you're right and he starts the year, I'd be kind of shocked he's not deadline bait.

roylestillman
07-31-2013, 06:25 AM
I know this is heresy, but I'm pretty excited over how much we've cleared in salary next year. Cots has us down to $61 million, but probably more like $68 just filling out the roster at near minimum. Even if the Sox payroll drops to $100 million that's a lot of money to go into the free agent market with. Also may give us flexibility to eat some salary in any Rios or Ramirez deal.

Zakath
07-31-2013, 07:20 AM
Only time will tell. I think the perception on this board is that the White Sox are a horse**** organization with horse**** management, and that nobody would ever want to play here.

I don't think players in general share that viewpoint.

Every team seems to have a segment of their fanbase that believes that; we just have more of them who have Internet access.

Nice to see that the "trade everyone we have and start from scratch" segment of the fanbase is representing themselves in this thread as well.

LITTLE NELL
07-31-2013, 07:24 AM
A trade that will take time to evaluate. I guess you can say that with any trade but with minor leaguers it's more so.
Gives us some bucks to bring in a free agent or two.

Shoeless
07-31-2013, 07:37 AM
A trade that will take time to evaluate. I guess you can say that with any trade but with minor leaguers it's more so.
Gives us some bucks to bring in a free agent or two.

I'm thinking acquiring free agents is a thing of the past for this organization. Rebuild from the ground up. No bad contracts.

TomBradley72
07-31-2013, 07:49 AM
I have alot of respect for Peavy and his work ethic.

He can be a #2 over a short period of time if healthy- I see him more as a #3 at this stage in his career.

But at 32, with a history of injuries, and a 36-29 record with a 4.00 ERA in his time with the Sox-(hasn't won more than 11 since 2007- WHIP is solid, but keeps getting injured) I think Hahn did a nice job with this trade- showing some good creativity in pulling off a 3 way trade.

Hopefully another move or two today to continue to breath some life into the roster and the minor league system.

Carolina Kenny
07-31-2013, 08:53 AM
Only time will tell. I think the perception on this board is that the White Sox are a horse**** organization with horse**** management, and that nobody would ever want to play here.

I don't think players in general share that viewpoint.

Some very good and great players speak highly of playing in Chicago and for the White Sox organization. If the money is right, the Sox are a destination that a player and his family would welcome.

Jim Thome
Frank Thomas
Robin Ventura
Paul Konerdo
AJP

SCCWS
07-31-2013, 08:55 AM
Yea. Since we have a glut of solid to really good lefties. The man I move is Danks over any of them. And he should bring back a nice haul.

A haul??? He is a career 59-68 pitcher w a 4.16 ERA. It always helps he is a lefty but he makes Peavy money--shade uner $16 Mil. He is getting #1 starter money and is a #3-4 starter right now.

tstrike2000
07-31-2013, 08:59 AM
I've liked Avisail Garcia since last year. I'm also hoping he turns into a solid MLB hitter\potential stud. I don't know much about the other prospects we got. It's tough to see Jake go, but at the same time everyone kind of knew this was going to happen.

34rancher
07-31-2013, 09:04 AM
I've never been on the jake peavy bandwagon, so I'm glad they got something for him of value. The salary he made here was huge for what the white sox got back.
Just use whatever Jedi mind trick we have left to get Dunn out of here now. Too much money over the past 3 years for too much mediocrity on these two players and just too much losing by the sox.

SCCWS
07-31-2013, 09:13 AM
I think this is a good deal for the White Sox. Boston ate the whole contract which was the major stumbling block if they had to give up an A prospect. According to Boston rumors, Hahn wanted Bradley Jr. and Boston has him as an untouchable. He is targeted as their replacement for Ellsbury who they don't think they will resign. Boston offered Middlebrooks and the $19 Mil instead and I think luckily Garcia entered the equation.
So the question in the end came down to is Garcia a better prospect than Middlebrooks. Middlebrooks has a great arm for 3rd base and he has shown MLB pop. But I think he is an average fielder.
The true trade shows up on who the White Sox pick up in FA for the $14 mil less whatever Garcia makes.

pmck003
07-31-2013, 09:22 AM
I for one am hoping the Sox emulate what was done in Boston rather than what is going on with the Cubs. I know there are people on this board jonesing for a complete tear down but I just feel it isn't necessary. Make some savvy trades this year, smart free agent signings next year, and you can find yourself in contention sooner rather than later. An improved offense would go a long way towards winning a few of these close games we have lost this year.

I agree in that a complete tear down seems as risky as trying for a "retooling" or something along that line. Garcia has the possibility of helping out relatively quickly, so I like the trade.

From what I've read on Garcia, seems like the negatives are he needs to improve his pitch selection and develop his power. I know power can often come with age/experience, but how hard is it to improve pitch selection skills relative to other skills? With sabermetrics being so popular, could a guy like Garcia be undervalued right now?

Moses_Scurry
07-31-2013, 09:27 AM
Some very good and great players speak highly of playing in Chicago and for the White Sox organization. If the money is right, the Sox are a destination that a player and his family would welcome.

Jim Thome
Frank Thomas
Robin Ventura
Paul Konerdo
AJP

Buehrle

Chez
07-31-2013, 09:33 AM
I am a Peavy fan and am sorry to see him go. That said, I'm excited about acquiring Garcia. I think he's got a huge upside and will develop into a solid, everyday right-fielder. Hahn did well.

Fastball23
07-31-2013, 09:35 AM
Who will the Sox bring up today?

EMachine10
07-31-2013, 09:37 AM
Who will the Sox bring up today?
Maybe Tekotte never left?

SCCWS
07-31-2013, 09:37 AM
Buehrle


Actually Peavy was a big fan of Chicago.

mahagga73
07-31-2013, 09:38 AM
I agree in that a complete tear down seems as risky as trying for a "retooling" or something along that line. Garcia has the possibility of helping out relatively quickly, so I like the trade.

From what I've read on Garcia, seems like the negatives are he needs to improve his pitch selection and develop his power. I know power can often come with age/experience, but how hard is it to improve pitch selection skills relative to other skills? With sabermetrics being so popular, could a guy like Garcia be undervalued right now?

A lot of the players on this team have been in the majors for years and still haven't learned any semblance of pitch selection. Just sayin. That's a huge part off the problem here.

Fastball23
07-31-2013, 09:40 AM
Maybe Tekotte never left?

I could be wrong but I believe he has to stay in the minors for at least 10 days, since he was sent down yesterday.

Fastball23
07-31-2013, 09:43 AM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 33s (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362569059432284162)
Some execs feared #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash)ís Hahn would go for HR in first deadline and whiff. Many now say he did well for Peavy. Garcia 30-HR potential.

Zisk77
07-31-2013, 09:54 AM
I think this is a good deal for the White Sox. Boston ate the whole contract which was the major stumbling block if they had to give up an A prospect. According to Boston rumors, Hahn wanted Bradley Jr. and Boston has him as an untouchable. He is targeted as their replacement for Ellsbury who they don't think they will resign. Boston offered Middlebrooks and the $19 Mil instead and I think luckily Garcia entered the equation.
So the question in the end came down to is Garcia a better prospect than Middlebrooks. Middlebrooks has a great arm for 3rd base and he has shown MLB pop. But I think he is an average fielder.
The true trade shows up on who the White Sox pick up in FA for the $14 mil less whatever Garcia makes.


Ironically, that could be Jacoby Ellsbury. If, we could somehow get rid of Dunn, Carlos Beltran would be a nice DH for the right price.

Mr. Jinx
07-31-2013, 10:07 AM
[/B]


Ironically, that could be Jacoby Ellsbury. If, we could somehow get rid of Dunn, Carlos Beltran would be a nice DH for the right price.

I'm a huge Beltran fan, but with 16 years already in the league I would be afraid he might start breaking down soon. I personally don't see the Sox as a huge contender next year and would prefer they just keep Dunn and plug the cash into a younger position player.

kobo
07-31-2013, 10:11 AM
[/B]


Ironically, that could be Jacoby Ellsbury. If, we could somehow get rid of Dunn, Carlos Beltran would be a nice DH for the right price.
No he wouldn't. He's the type of player the White Sox need to stay away from: old with deteriorating skills. He's going to be 37 next year, he had a bad 2nd half in 2012 and the Cardinals are resting him as much as possible to try and avoid a repeat of last season. Pass.

white sox bill
07-31-2013, 10:17 AM
As long as we got a living breathing human being, I;m elated. Like Bob Dylan said "When you aint got nothin', you got nothin' to lose"

voodoochile
07-31-2013, 10:18 AM
Just a thought, maybe Tank moves to 1B this off season and they keep Rios and put Garcia in left to start out. If they move Rios, I'm okay with that too. Add a serious CF or just keep De Aza and the OF is pretty well set until Rios leaves.

5th starter next year could be Rienzo? I assume he's the 5th starter for the rest of this year so that will give them time to see if he can build on his impressive start from last night.

Good luck in Boston, Jake.

Need a catcher, 1B and a few set up men and the Sox won't be that bad next year. Might need a new manager too, not impressed with Robin's development at this stage of the game.

Fastball23
07-31-2013, 10:20 AM
Just a thought, maybe Tank moves to 1B this off season and they keep Rios and put Garcia in left to start out. If they move Rios, I'm okay with that too. Add a serious CF or just keep De Aza and the OF is pretty well set until Rios leaves.

5th starter next year could be Rienzo? I assume he's the 5th starter for the rest of this year so that will give them time to see if he can build on his impressive start from last night.

Good luck in Boston, Jake.

Need a catcher, 1B and a few set up men and the Sox won't be that bad next year. Might need a new manager too, not impressed with Robin's development at this stage of the game.

I believe we need a SS next season as well.

russ99
07-31-2013, 10:23 AM
A lot of the players on this team have been in the majors for years and still haven't learned any semblance of pitch selection. Just sayin. That's a huge part off the problem here.

Agreed.

I wonder if part of the reason Hahn is sending Garcia to AAA is if Ventura, Manto and the swing first, walks are bad, homers & Ks over OBP & situational hitting philosophy may be history after this season and a new manager may bring in a more reasoned hitting philosophy.

russ99
07-31-2013, 10:24 AM
No he wouldn't. He's the type of player the White Sox need to stay away from: old with deteriorating skills. He's going to be 37 next year, he had a bad 2nd half in 2012 and the Cardinals are resting him as much as possible to try and avoid a repeat of last season. Pass.

IMO, Morneau would be the best FA we could land this offseason.

He's always been a great hitter, and the cost may be down due to health/concussion concerns. Even if he can't play 1B full-time, he's be a heck of a DH.

TaylorStSox
07-31-2013, 10:25 AM
Agreed.

I wonder if part of the reason Hahn is sending Garcia to AAA is if Ventura, Manto and the swing first, walks are bad, homers & Ks over OBP & situational hitting philosophy may be history after this season and a new manager may bring in a more reasoned hitting philosophy.

If might be the 3 guys ahead of him.

If Hahn was worried about Manto, Manto would be waiting tables.

russ99
07-31-2013, 10:27 AM
If might be the 3 guys ahead of him.

If Hahn was worried about Manto, Manto would be waiting tables.

Well, you get a prospect who needs to be a more selective hitter to reach his potential, Manto would be the last guy I'd send him to.

Plus he can work on his hitting and still excel vs. AAA pitching.

DeadMoney
07-31-2013, 10:31 AM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 33s (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362569059432284162)
Some execs feared #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox&src=hash)ís Hahn would go for HR in first deadline and whiff. Many now say he did well for Peavy. Garcia 30-HR potential.

That analogy is SO White Sox.

While I'm not enamored with what we got back for Peavy, I'll certainly take it. A young, hopefully solid bat that the team will be able to put in the line-up soon is a plus.

Also, while I think this signals that the Sox aren't going to go into a full rebuild, it's a starting point. The team's pitching staff is something to build around now. The problem I have is that I don't think we'll win with certain guys on our roster (De Aza, Dunn, possibly Ramirez, and Rios who is as good as gone IMO).

I see Beckham, Phegley (and the addition of a solid veteran back-up), and now Garcia as regulars moving forward. Viciedo could move into a DH role (I want him no where near LF or any field, for that matter), but he really needs to refine his approach at the plate and grow as a hitter. It's not about trying to hit the ball 500 ft every AB; he has ridiculous power - if he controls his swing even a little bit, 400 ft will happen. That's 4 of 8 guys. Ramirez will probably stick around, but I'd much rather see a non-power hitting SS who can't bunt as a 8 or 9-hitter moving forward. So that's 5 guys with holes to plug around them. The problem with those 5 guys is a total lack of OBP and plate patience, which is why I wouldn't mind seeing Viciedo and Ramirez shuffled elsewhere. Other than that, I'm OK with Beckham, Phegley and Garcia being the pieces to build around.

Oakland and Cleveland have built on the fly the past few years - it can be done. Oakland had a decent system as a starting point, while Cleveland just went the reckless route and tried anything in FA. It is much easier to build something when we have a starting point like this pitching staff that will keep us in games on a night-in, night-out basis.

aryzner
07-31-2013, 10:46 AM
IMO, Morneau would be the best FA we could land this offseason.

He's always been a great hitter, and the cost may be down due to health/concussion concerns. Even if he can't play 1B full-time, he's be a heck of a DH.

I know money has a funny way of changing people's minds, but isn't Morneau on record of almost literally saying that he hates the White Sox?

rdivaldi
07-31-2013, 10:54 AM
Sickels' take on the trade:

Peavy to Red Sox in three-team deal (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/7/31/4573902/peavy-to-red-sox-in-three-team-deal-tigers-white-sox-iglesias-prospects)

Garcia is 6-4, 240, born June 12, 1991. He's a beast with a strong throwing arm and decent speed for his size, and he has the physical strength to hit 20+ homers per season in the majors, if his plate discipline proves adequate. That's an open question, but minor league pitching is no longer challenging him.

shes
07-31-2013, 11:45 AM
I don't like this trade at all. The Cubs got a better package for Garza, which makes this a doubly bitter pill to swallow.

I think Garcia has a chance to be a slightly better than replacement level player. But he's not even the type of guy you want unless the rest of your offense if efficient and disciplined.

The other guys? Meh. Montas looks like another Nate Jones at best, Wendleken is a 5th starter/middle reliever, Rondon will likely never see the major leagues other than in an emergency or in September as he does nothing well and a few things very poorly.

This whole thing rides on Garcia, who has holes, and I sure as hell don't believe this organization is equipped to help a hitter with the problems he has.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but this was supposed to be a day when we could look positively toward the future, so it really, really sucks that we're left with the kind of trade one would expect for the 5th best starter available at the deadline, not the 1st.

rdivaldi
07-31-2013, 11:55 AM
I don't like this trade at all. The Cubs got a better package for Garza, which makes this a doubly bitter pill to swallow.

I think Garcia has a chance to be a slightly better than replacement level player. But he's not even the type of guy you want unless the rest of your offense if efficient and disciplined.

The other guys? Meh. Montas looks like another Nate Jones at best, Wendleken is a 5th starter/middle reliever, Rondon will likely never see the major leagues other than in an emergency or in September as he does nothing well and a few things very poorly.

This whole thing rides on Garcia, who has holes, and I sure as hell don't believe this organization is equipped to help a hitter with the problems he has.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but this was supposed to be a day when we could look positively toward the future, so it really, really sucks that we're left with the kind of trade one would expect for the 5th best starter available at the deadline, not the 1st.

Considering the Sox sent no money on this deal, they did very well for themselves. Garcia is a top 100 prospect and has a much higher ceiling than anyone the Cubs received for Garza. The other guys are pretty much a wash.

TaylorStSox
07-31-2013, 11:56 AM
I don't get the whole Cubs envy. They got a busted prospect with concussion issues that are causing loss of vision. That's as big of a red flag as possible. They got a 5th starter and an A ball pitcher that throws hard. Ok.

rdivaldi
07-31-2013, 11:58 AM
I don't get the whole Cubs envy. They got a busted prospect with concussion issues that are causing loss of vision. That's as big of a red flag as possible. They got a 5th starter and an A ball pitcher that throws hard. Ok.

Some people are just happy seeing the glass as half empty...

shes
07-31-2013, 12:01 PM
No he hasn't; Quintana has statistically been one of the Top 10 SP in the American League this season, Hector scratches the Top 30.

I think they both have bright futures on this team, but Quintana has clearly been the better pitcher this year. Clearly.

Quintana has 50% more starts than Hector, so it's kind of an unfair comp. Quintana's been better, but they're pretty close. Two very good middle of the rotation guys going forward.

Danks on the other hand is an albatross. What a joke of a contract. He makes Dunn look like a bargain. Maybe he can be a solid #5 next year and make himself tradeable.

hawkjt
07-31-2013, 12:05 PM
I was envious of the Tigers after seeing Garcia late last season,and am happy to see the Sox get him.

I agree that the Sox can rebuild on the fly,and not go scorched earth,which is really difficult for the Sox to do.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:08 PM
Quintana has 50% more starts than Hector, so it's kind of an unfair comp. Quintana's been better, but they're pretty close. Two very good middle of the rotation guys going forward.

Danks on the other hand is an albatross. What a joke of a contract. He makes Dunn look like a bargain. Maybe he can be a solid #5 next year and make himself tradeable.

More starts, but only 20 or so IP difference so it's not a mind bending difference. The difference in WAR is very real, Quintana has just been a better pitcher than Santiago this year.

We'll see what happens with Danks. Anyone who expected him to seemlessly come back from his shoulder surgery was being a bit unrealistic. More likely, it's going to take a few months of pitching to regain his former command. But overall he's been pretty good for the Sox this year, save for a few bad outings.

shes
07-31-2013, 12:08 PM
I don't get the whole Cubs envy. They got a busted prospect with concussion issues that are causing loss of vision. That's as big of a red flag as possible. They got a 5th starter and an A ball pitcher that throws hard. Ok.

I'm sure your view on their haul would be exactly the same if the Sox ended up with those players.

This board would be pissing their pants with excitement if we picked up a guy like Edwards for Peavy, not to mention several other players that look like future contributors at the MLB level.

doublem23
07-31-2013, 12:11 PM
I'm sure your view on their haul would be exactly the same if the Sox ended up with those players.

This board would be pissing their pants with excitement if we picked up a guy like Edwards for Peavy, not to mention several other players that look like future contributors at the MLB level.

If the best thing the Sox got for Peavy was a 21-year-old P in A-ball, I think this board would have exploded.

TaylorStSox
07-31-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm sure your view on their haul would be exactly the same if the Sox ended up with those players.

This board would be pissing their pants with excitement if we picked up a guy like Edwards for Peavy, not to mention several other players that look like future contributors at the MLB level.

Why is teal so hard to figure out? Hell, the rollover even says teal.

Anyway, I'd rather have a high upside offensive player. I'm never worried about the Sox ability to find and develop pitching. Garcia>Olt.

shes
07-31-2013, 12:17 PM
More starts, but only 20 or so IP difference so it's not a mind bending difference. The difference in WAR is very real, Quintana has just been a better pitcher than Santiago this year.

We'll see what happens with Danks. Anyone who expected him to seemlessly come back from his shoulder surgery was being a bit unrealistic. More likely, it's going to take a few months of pitching to regain his former command. But overall he's been pretty good for the Sox this year, save for a few bad outings.

That's fair, they're closer in IP than I realized. I don't think Quintana's production is as sustainable going forward as Hector's, but then again I've always been warier of Q as he has a much lower margin of error than Hector.

If Santiago can ever cut down his walks he could be a near-ace caliber pitcher. He's basically Matt Moore without the hype.

shes
07-31-2013, 12:22 PM
Why is teal so hard to figure out? Hell, the rollover even says teal.

Anyway, I'd rather have a high upside offensive player. I'm never worried about the Sox ability to find and develop pitching. Garcia>Olt.

This isn't teal?

Is it this? Or this? My eyes aren't the greatest.

I guess it comes down to how high you are on Garcia. If he turns into the next CarGon I'll happily eat my hat .

Zisk77
07-31-2013, 12:44 PM
No he wouldn't. He's the type of player the White Sox need to stay away from: old with deteriorating skills. He's going to be 37 next year, he had a bad 2nd half in 2012 and the Cardinals are resting him as much as possible to try and avoid a repeat of last season. Pass.

That's why I said at the right price. A 2 - year commitment at best. I realize his long in the tooth, but he still has a few years left. Dunn's hitting prowess pales in comparison. Go elsewhere, if you can't get him for the right money. If you aren't in contention deal him for prospects.

Either way, I'd like to see the sox invest in fa hitters of the type of Ellsbury and Beltran ( not necessarily those players). Guys who hit for power and average. That don't K a lot and make productive outs and who can run a bit.

Harry Chappas
07-31-2013, 01:04 PM
I don't like this trade at all. The Cubs got a better package for Garza, which makes this a doubly bitter pill to swallow.

I think Garcia has a chance to be a slightly better than replacement level player. But he's not even the type of guy you want unless the rest of your offense if efficient and disciplined.

The other guys? Meh. Montas looks like another Nate Jones at best, Wendleken is a 5th starter/middle reliever, Rondon will likely never see the major leagues other than in an emergency or in September as he does nothing well and a few things very poorly.

This whole thing rides on Garcia, who has holes, and I sure as hell don't believe this organization is equipped to help a hitter with the problems he has.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but this was supposed to be a day when we could look positively toward the future, so it really, really sucks that we're left with the kind of trade one would expect for the 5th best starter available at the deadline, not the 1st.

This is going out of your way to be negative. The reviews of Garcia are mixed but at worst, the pundits are saying he should be a productive, everyday, player with 20/20 potential. Those more bullish are saying he could be better than that. But what isn't in doubt is that he is only 22 and has raked in the minors. It's completely idiotic to try to put a "cap" on how good he can be given his relative youth.

The Sox also got a power arm in Montas who has hit 100 on the gun. I can't think of another organization that has a better track record of developing pitchers than the Sox. He could prove to a stud. The other two are more or less filler but Rondon is only 19. He's supposedly very good with the glove and maybe he'll grow into a decent hitter.

Lastly, the Sox cleared another $15 million from their books for next season which can be used for more offense via free agency.

I just don't get how anyone can be down on this trade.

Fastball23
07-31-2013, 01:09 PM
Jordan Danks has been recalled from Triple-A Charlotte

sunofgold
07-31-2013, 01:18 PM
Doesn't the $20M saved alone makes this a good deal even if none of these prospects pan out? I like Jake but I have had time seeing him making through his current contract wo going on the DL

Stanley
07-31-2013, 01:24 PM
This is going out of your way to be negative. The reviews of Garcia are mixed but at worst, the pundits are saying he should be a productive, everyday, player with 20/20 potential. Those more bullish are saying he could be better than that. But what isn't in doubt is that he is only 22 and has raked in the minors. It's completely idiotic to try to put a "cap" on how good he can be given his relative youth.

I don't know a lot about Garcia but his body type doesn't look like he would be a consistent threat to swipe 20. If he turned out to be a Goldschmidt type who could steal 10 or 15 and hit 20-25 and drive in 90 that'd be pretty sweet.

JB98
07-31-2013, 01:35 PM
I for one am hoping the Sox emulate what was done in Boston rather than what is going on with the Cubs. I know there are people on this board jonesing for a complete tear down but I just feel it isn't necessary. Make some savvy trades this year, smart free agent signings next year, and you can find yourself in contention sooner rather than later. An improved offense would go a long way towards winning a few of these close games we have lost this year.


Good points. In addition to your points, I'd also add as FA incentives: One of the best training staffs, hitter's ballpark, easier midwest travel schedule, likeable manager, and one of the best Spring Training facilities.

You and I are on the same page. Boston has transformed its team in one year. That's the model the Sox should be following, not the Cubs, as many here seem to believe.

kobo
07-31-2013, 01:37 PM
Quintana has 50% more starts than Hector, so it's kind of an unfair comp. Quintana's been better, but they're pretty close. Two very good middle of the rotation guys going forward.

Danks on the other hand is an albatross. What a joke of a contract. He makes Dunn look like a bargain. Maybe he can be a solid #5 next year and make himself tradeable.
:rolling:

What were you expecting from Danks this year? He's pitching as well as can be expected coming off the injury and surgery he had. It's going to take the rest of the season plus the off season for him to regain the strength he previously had. To expect him to just rebound right away this year is absolutely ludicrous.

kobo
07-31-2013, 01:40 PM
That's why I said at the right price. A 2 - year commitment at best. I realize his long in the tooth, but he still has a few years left. Dunn's hitting prowess pales in comparison. Go elsewhere, if you can't get him for the right money. If you aren't in contention deal him for prospects.

Either way, I'd like to see the sox invest in fa hitters of the type of Ellsbury and Beltran ( not necessarily those players). Guys who hit for power and average. That don't K a lot and make productive outs and who can run a bit.
1) I understand, but personally I don't want the Sox to sign any more aging veterans. I want youth.

2) I think everyone wants that type of hitter. Hope the organization does as well.

JB98
07-31-2013, 01:41 PM
I don't get the whole Cubs envy. They got a busted prospect with concussion issues that are causing loss of vision. That's as big of a red flag as possible. They got a 5th starter and an A ball pitcher that throws hard. Ok.

I don't get it either, other than to say Cubbie propaganda is this town is very strong. Even some Sox fans believe it, I guess.

I wouldn't trade places with the Cubs and their fans. There. I said it.

JB98
07-31-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm sure your view on their haul would be exactly the same if the Sox ended up with those players.

This board would be pissing their pants with excitement if we picked up a guy like Edwards for Peavy, not to mention several other players that look like future contributors at the MLB level.

You're not serious with that comment, are you?

I would have exploded with rage if the Sox hadn't gotten a MLB-ready player such as Garcia for Peavy.

DSpivack
07-31-2013, 01:47 PM
1) I understand, but personally I don't want the Sox to sign any more aging veterans. I want youth.
.

No reason it's an either/or. I'd rather the Sox find some stopgap veterans to compete in the short-term, while drafting, signing and developing young players for the long-term.

#1swisher
07-31-2013, 01:49 PM
Nick Cafardo
Lee would have cost the Sox more prospects and about $70 million in salary compared with $20 million for Peavy.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/07/31/why-red-sox-need-jake-peavy/3CK9J7opgGXYR5QEFAflYL/story.html

Harry Potter
07-31-2013, 01:57 PM
Doesn't the $20M saved alone makes this a good deal even if none of these prospects pan out? I like Jake but I have had time seeing him making through his current contract wo going on the DL

Absolutely. Unfortunately, some posters like shes can't grasp that concept.

kobo
07-31-2013, 01:57 PM
No reason it's an either/or. I'd rather the Sox find some stopgap veterans to compete in the short-term, while drafting, signing and developing young players for the long-term.
Understand and agree. I know they need to sign some veterans, but I'd rather them sign someone who is 33 or 34 rather than 37.

shes
07-31-2013, 02:23 PM
Absolutely. Unfortunately, some posters like shes can't grasp that concept.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Sox could have done better. That's what I'm saying. Garcia will probably be an approximation of ADA with the power and speed swapped. I guess I'm an idiot for not getting too excited about that.

Yes, the Sox cleared salary, but they could have done that in a number of trades given the interest in Peavy. If this is the best Hahn could get, fine, but it still seems underwhelming.

FoulTerritory
07-31-2013, 02:27 PM
Wow, even Boers and Bernstein are enthused about this trade and they tend to be negative about everything the Sox do. Boers basically slobbering over the physical tools of Avisail Garcia.

kobo
07-31-2013, 02:32 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Sox could have done better. That's what I'm saying. Garcia will probably be an approximation of ADA with the power and speed swapped. I guess I'm an idiot for not getting too excited about that.

Yes, the Sox cleared salary, but they could have done that in a number of trades given the interest in Peavy. If this is the best Hahn could get, fine, but it still seems underwhelming.
And how exactly do you know this?

shes
07-31-2013, 02:38 PM
And how exactly do you know this?

Jeez, here come the literal police. Throw a probably in there if it makes you feel better. As I side a few lines later: "If this is the best Hahn could get, fine."

#1swisher
07-31-2013, 02:40 PM
Hahn on Garcia, and the three other minor league players the White Sox received in the deal.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/16502/garcias-arrival-shouldnt-be-too-far-off

Mark Gonzales ‏@MDGonzales (https://twitter.com/MDGonzales)

Garcia officially added to Charlotte roster but hasn't officially reported, three players acquired from Boston assigned to Kannapolis

cards press box
07-31-2013, 02:42 PM
The Sox could have done better.

I don't see how else the Sox could have cleared the salary they did, get a prospect like Garcia and get some minor league pitchers with potential. Nothing suggests that other clubs were willing to give the Sox as much as they ultimately got from Boston and Detroit. In fact, if Jhonny Peralta hadn't gotten mixed up in this Biogenisis scandal, I don't think that the Sox would have gotten as much as they did for Peavy.

If Santiago can ever cut down his walks he could be a near-ace caliber pitcher. He's basically Matt Moore without the hype.

That would be great! I am a fan of Hector Santiago and think he has a big upside. One of the positives of 2013 is the experience that Santiago is getting at the big league level.

I guess it comes down to how high you are on Garcia.

I am high on Garcia as a prospect. When the Tigers were chasing the Sox last August and September, I was convinced that Garcia would be the next Tiger star. Now, I think he will be the next Sox star. Didn't see that coming.

KingXerxes
07-31-2013, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Sox could have done better. That's what I'm saying. Garcia will probably be an approximation of ADA with the power and speed swapped. I guess I'm an idiot for not getting too excited about that.

Yes, the Sox cleared salary, but they could have done that in a number of trades given the interest in Peavy. If this is the best Hahn could get, fine, but it still seems underwhelming.

The White Sox traded Jake Peavy, not a young Walter Johnson. I'm actually pleasantly surprised they received this much consideration.

Peavy is not the pitcher he once was and is injury prone. If the White Sox end up with a good outfielder in the years to come, in my mind it was a great deal.

SCCWS
07-31-2013, 02:57 PM
You and I are on the same page. Boston has transformed its team in one year. That's the model the Sox should be following, not the Cubs, as many here seem to believe.

Boston did but you forgot one major issue. Boston built around a core of Ellsbury-Pedroia and Ortiz. Three players having All-Star seasons but not having career seasons. They are their #1, 3 and 4 batters.
Now as I have posted a few times, the White Sox pitching staff w Peavy and Thornton was better than Boston's. Boston also got great contributions so far this year from their AAA and AA teams. That was important since they have had numerous injuries. Iglesias has been unbelievable hitting mid-.300 and even the replacement for Buchholz has given them 3 solid starts. It remains to be seen how good our AAA team will be next year after all the trades.
So I think it will take Hahn much longer since he really is not starting with even 1 All-Star type position player. But Boston signed 2nd tier free agents last year not the top notch guys they have signed in the past.

Harry Chappas
07-31-2013, 03:14 PM
Wow, even Boers and Bernstein are enthused about this trade and they tend to be negative about everything the Sox do. Boers basically slobbering over the physical tools of Avisail Garcia.

I was just going to post this. Bernstein even played an excerpt from an interview Mully/Hanley had with a Baseball Prospectus guy who said he liked the Sox haul more than than the Cubs/Garza deal.

The more I've read about Garcia, the happier I become with this deal. The fact that the Sox didn't have to send any money with Peavy solidifies this as (on paper) a solid deal.

As for the notion that they could have done better - LOL. No one has the slightest clue what deals could have happened. Teams are very reluctant to part ways with their top prospects, particularly when they're getting an older, injury-prone, pitcher in return.

JB98
07-31-2013, 03:20 PM
Boston did but you forgot one major issue. Boston built around a core of Ellsbury-Pedroia and Ortiz. Three players having All-Star seasons but not having career seasons. They are their #1, 3 and 4 batters.
Now as I have posted a few times, the White Sox pitching staff w Peavy and Thornton was better than Boston's. Boston also got great contributions so far this year from their AAA and AA teams. That was important since they have had numerous injuries. Iglesias has been unbelievable hitting mid-.300 and even the replacement for Buchholz has given them 3 solid starts. It remains to be seen how good our AAA team will be next year after all the trades.
So I think it will take Hahn much longer since he really is not starting with even 1 All-Star type position player. But Boston signed 2nd tier free agents last year not the top notch guys they have signed in the past.

No, the White Sox don't have position players to build around like Boston did. They do, however, have some pitching pieces that the Red Sox did not have.

Harry Chappas
07-31-2013, 03:26 PM
No, the White Sox don't have position players to build around like Boston did. They do, however, have some pitching pieces that the Red Sox did not have.

And, as someone else pointed out, it's probably easier (and cheaper) to rebuild your offense on the fly than your starting rotation.

If the Sox use their FA dollars wisely, they can at least be watchable next season.

voodoochile
07-31-2013, 03:59 PM
I believe we need a SS next season as well.

Depends if you believe this is the best Alexei has left or if he can return to form of years past. Defensively he's been one of the best SS in the game for several years running with a very solid bat. This could well just be a down year.

BleacherBandit
07-31-2013, 04:17 PM
Depends if you believe this is the best Alexei has left or if he can return to form of years past. Defensively he's been one of the best SS in the game for several years running with a very solid bat. This could well just be a down year.

Alexei is also 31 years old and getting older, meaning his defense is only liable to get worse. When the Sox are ready to compete I doubt it'll be because they have a 34 or 35 year old shortstop who doesn't hit for power any more.

XplodingScorbord
07-31-2013, 04:28 PM
Alexei is also 31 years old and getting older, meaning his defense is only liable to get worse. When the Sox are ready to compete I doubt it'll be because they have a 34 or 35 year old shortstop who doesn't hit for power any more.

As he's 31 now and only signed for two more years, it's impossible for him to be 34 or 35 and still playing for us unless we exercise his option for 2016.

BleacherBandit
07-31-2013, 04:31 PM
As he's 31 now and only signed for two more years, it's impossible for him to be 34 or 35 and still playing for us unless we exercise his option for 2016.

my mistake. although I think the point still stands that you should try to move him while the iron is hot on whatever production he has left / while he's still under contract.

shes
07-31-2013, 04:42 PM
Alexei is also 31 years old and getting older, meaning his defense is only liable to get worse. When the Sox are ready to compete I doubt it'll be because they have a 34 or 35 year old shortstop who doesn't hit for power any more.

If a mid-thirties Alexei is a better option at SS than Anderson in 3-4 years ...:whiner:

voodoochile
07-31-2013, 04:45 PM
I still think if they trade TCM now, they are selling low. They'd be better off hoping he rebounds next season and trading him then if necessary. He normally finishes the season strong, hopefully that happens again this year.

Crestani
07-31-2013, 04:52 PM
I still think if they trade TCM now, they are selling low. They'd be better off hoping he rebounds next season and trading him then if necessary. He normally finishes the season strong, hopefully that happens again this year.


Hopefully he doesn't end up with 30 errors this season..!! At least Jose Valentin could hit..!!

TheVulture
07-31-2013, 05:08 PM
Hopefully he doesn't end up with 30 errors this season..!! At least Jose Valentin could hit..!!

The year Valentin committed thirty errors he also turned more double plays than Ozzie Smith ever turned in any season of his career, while also leading the league in chances. I'll take that over a ten error fire hydrant every day of the week.

TDog
07-31-2013, 05:08 PM
Depends if you believe this is the best Alexei has left or if he can return to form of years past. Defensively he's been one of the best SS in the game for several years running with a very solid bat. This could well just be a down year.

Not having a backup shortstop may have been a big part of that. It's possible, although I doubt it's likely, that Ramirez hasn't been focused because he has no shortstop competition. It's possible and more likely that he is mentally and physically exhausted. It's also possible it has been a combination of the two, along with missing Beckham at second and Konerko at first for a good deal of the year. Both Beckham and Konerko were big reasons the White Sox were so strong defensively last year. Strong defensive shortstops rarely become bad defensive shortstops as they age into their early 30s. It isn't as if he has lost range or arm strength. He is playing like he isn't focused on defense.

tstrike2000
07-31-2013, 05:28 PM
And, as someone else pointed out, it's probably easier (and cheaper) to rebuild your offense on the fly than your starting rotation.

If the Sox use their FA dollars wisely, they can at least be watchable next season.

Definitely, but it will be a challenge for Hahn assuming Rios is traded and Konerko leaves\retires.

SCCWS
07-31-2013, 05:54 PM
I still think if they trade TCM now, they are selling low. They'd be better off hoping he rebounds next season and trading him then if necessary. He normally finishes the season strong, hopefully that happens again this year.

Selling low??? He is hitting .279 and he is a career .276 hitter. This is the 4th straight year his home run totals have dropped. This will probably be his best year yet for hitting doubles. Sounds to me like he has lost his power but is hitting better by hitting more to all fields. Defensively he is having a bad year but usually players don't all of a sudden regain their fielding touch unless they are playing hurt.

TaylorStSox
07-31-2013, 06:08 PM
I kind of wonder if there's something off the field distracting Ramirez. His defensive tools haven't declined.

balke
07-31-2013, 07:02 PM
I still think if they trade TCM now, they are selling low. They'd be better off hoping he rebounds next season and trading him then if necessary. He normally finishes the season strong, hopefully that happens again this year.


I agree - but realize he's in his decline years. I definitely think last year's Alexei would've been a Cardinal by now.

Sox did okay. If anything the money is looking better for this team. The tough part is finding players to fill the void who are better and cheaper.

Looks like right now:
2014 $61.2 mil committed
2015 $37.2 mil committed

Lots of room to build financially. Have to talk players into coming here though. Have to get some guys out of the minors as well.

XplodingScorbord
07-31-2013, 07:08 PM
Jeff Passan calls us a deadline winner: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-deadline-winners-and-losers-225036322.html

Noneck
07-31-2013, 07:18 PM
Jeff Passan calls us a deadline winner: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-deadline-winners-and-losers-225036322.html


According to him all 3 teams were winners because of Peavy deal.

SI1020
07-31-2013, 07:27 PM
The year Valentin committed thirty errors he also turned more double plays than Ozzie Smith ever turned in any season of his career, while also leading the league in chances. I'll take that over a ten error fire hydrant every day of the week. I seem to remember someone analyzing all 36 errors he made in 2000 one by one and coming to the conclusion that all things considered the errors weren't that damaging. As a fan, I really liked Valentin for a variety of reasons.

SoxSpeed22
07-31-2013, 07:44 PM
Realistically, this could work for all 3 sides. If Peralta does get suspended and Iglesias stabilizes the infield defense, then the Tigers benefit, if Peavy does well for the Red Sox, they benefit, if Garcia and one or two of those guys from Boston become long-time fixtures for the White Sox, then it works for the Sox.

SI1020
07-31-2013, 08:06 PM
Realistically, this could work for all 3 sides. If Peralta does get suspended and Iglesias stabilizes the infield defense, then the Tigers benefit, if Peavy does well for the Red Sox, they benefit, if Garcia and one or two of those guys from Boston become long-time fixtures for the White Sox, then it works for the Sox. It almost always takes at least a season or 2 to properly evaluate a trade. I remember when the Cubs "fleeced" the Cardinals out of Ernie Broglio.

BRDSR
08-01-2013, 01:05 AM
Realistically, this could work for all 3 sides. If Peralta does get suspended and Iglesias stabilizes the infield defense, then the Tigers benefit, if Peavy does well for the Red Sox, they benefit, if Garcia and one or two of those guys from Boston become long-time fixtures for the White Sox, then it works for the Sox.

Peavy was never part of the White Sox' long term solution, and there is no short term solution. If any of the guys from this trade become long-time fixtures for the White Sox, it was a good trade for the Sox (assuming, of course, that we're talking about long-time fixtures on White Sox teams that are relevant, not ones as miserable as this one).

RockJock07
08-01-2013, 01:26 AM
And, as someone else pointed out, it's probably easier (and cheaper) to rebuild your offense on the fly than your starting rotation.

If the Sox use their FA dollars wisely, they can at least be watchable next season.

I hope they don't spend it on anyone but roster fillers. I hope the sox bank that money. The Sox don't need to spend money on anything, they're going to be bad next year and probably 2015. I'm a little shocked at some on this board who think a tweak here and there and the Sox are contenders again.

I for one want to watch a rebuilding job because at least I'd know what the sox are doing.

doublem23
08-01-2013, 01:35 AM
I'm a little shocked at some on this board who think a tweak here and there and the Sox are contenders again.

I for one want to watch a rebuilding job because at least I'd know what the sox are doing.

I really haven't seen too many people who think the Sox are just a tweak here or there from being a real legitimate contender again, but the fact is that the Sox have one of the youngest pitching staffs in the American League (average age 27.7, tied for 2nd youngest) who is also one of the 1-2 best (16.1 WAR for pitchers, have been in 1st or 2nd almost all season).

I also can't believe how many people don't see this is their plan. I get if people want to see a full blown tear down and rebuild, I personally disagree with that philosophy, but I get what you're saying, but people who think the Sox are just haphazardly going along... Uh, doesn't make any sense, their plan and their goal is pretty clear.

JB98
08-01-2013, 02:16 AM
I really haven't seen too many people who think the Sox are just a tweak here or there from being a real legitimate contender again, but the fact is that the Sox have one of the youngest pitching staffs in the American League (average age 27.7, tied for 2nd youngest) who is also one of the 1-2 best (16.1 WAR for pitchers, have been in 1st or 2nd almost all season).

I also can't believe how many people don't see this is their plan. I get if people want to see a full blown tear down and rebuild, I personally disagree with that philosophy, but I get what you're saying, but people who think the Sox are just haphazardly going along... Uh, doesn't make any sense, their plan and their goal is pretty clear.

The plan is crystal clear to anyone who is paying attention. However, I don't know how many times in the last month I've heard members of the media argue "the Sox don't even have a plan." Patently ridiculous.

Again, just because it hasn't been announced to the world doesn't mean there isn't a plan in place. And, if you're an astute observer, you can pick up on the direction with not too much trouble.

RockJock07
08-01-2013, 02:50 AM
I really haven't seen too many people who think the Sox are just a tweak here or there from being a real legitimate contender again, but the fact is that the Sox have one of the youngest pitching staffs in the American League (average age 27.7, tied for 2nd youngest) who is also one of the 1-2 best (16.1 WAR for pitchers, have been in 1st or 2nd almost all season).

I also can't believe how many people don't see this is their plan. I get if people want to see a full blown tear down and rebuild, I personally disagree with that philosophy, but I get what you're saying, but people who think the Sox are just haphazardly going along... Uh, doesn't make any sense, their plan and their goal is pretty clear.

I guess I was seeing after Peavy trade that some people think that the Sox should take that money and invest that in next years squad.

While your stats about the pitching staff are very true the sox just don't have enough hitting on the verge of helping this team in the next 2 seasons.

By actually trading Peavy I see that they want to rebuild however not trading Rios was a little puzzling however he could still get dealt. It will be an interesting off-season because I really don't see them making any moves of value or spending alot of money.

I'm eager for the upcoming draft since the Sox will no doubt have a top 5 pick and hopefully a top 3.

Frater Perdurabo
08-01-2013, 07:04 AM
The Sox have a clear plan, and I think it's smart.

DrCrawdad
08-01-2013, 08:57 AM
Sickels' take on the trade:

Peavy to Red Sox in three-team deal (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/7/31/4573902/peavy-to-red-sox-in-three-team-deal-tigers-white-sox-iglesias-prospects)



Thanks for the Link. Good read.

I enjoyed too the comments section. Funny that the first commenter is a Cubbie fan. Cubbie fans regularly boast that they do not care nor give any attention to the White Sox. Then the first poster about the White Sox trade is a Cubbie fan and there is Cubbie fan saying the Cubbie Garcia trade was better.

SI1020
08-01-2013, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the Link. Good read.

I enjoyed too the comments section. Funny that the first commenter is a Cubbie fan. Cubbie fans regularly boast that they do not care nor give any attention to the White Sox. Then the first poster about the White Sox trade is a Cubbie fan and there is Cubbie fan saying the Cubbie Garza trade was better. I'm not overly impressed with the haul Garcia brought the Cubs from Texas. It might work out for them. I don't know what the experts say, but I like the potential of C. J. Edwards. None of these guys say can't miss.

balke
08-01-2013, 04:32 PM
I guess I was seeing after Peavy trade that some people think that the Sox should take that money and invest that in next years squad.

While your stats about the pitching staff are very true the sox just don't have enough hitting on the verge of helping this team in the next 2 seasons.

By actually trading Peavy I see that they want to rebuild however not trading Rios was a little puzzling however he could still get dealt. It will be an interesting off-season because I really don't see them making any moves of value or spending alot of money.

I'm eager for the upcoming draft since the Sox will no doubt have a top 5 pick and hopefully a top 3.


I think they need payroll flexibility and money ready to spend. If you break down the free agent market coming up, there's not a ton out there to help the Sox right now. With payroll flexibility, they have options though. Even waiver wire if they get some more offensive production from within soon.

The more I look at future free agents, I'm actually kinda glad the Sox kept Rios. Unless he gets a good haul, there's not a lot out there to replace him.

I think Garcia might take DeAza or Viciedo's spot in the OF before Rios. Maybe even move an OFer to DH if PK is gone next season.

JB98
08-01-2013, 04:34 PM
I think they need payroll flexibility and money ready to spend. If you break down the free agent market coming up, there's not a ton out there to help the Sox right now. With payroll flexibility, they have options though. Even waiver wire if they get some more offensive production from within soon.

The more I look at future free agents, I'm actually kinda glad the Sox kept Rios. Unless he gets a good haul, there's not a lot out there to replace him.

I think Garcia might take DeAza or Viciedo's spot in the OF before Rios. Maybe even move an OFer to DH if PK is gone next season.

That's what will happen if they don't move Rios. Viciedo to DH, Garcia to LF. Or maybe Viciedo to 1B, depending on how they feel about him. There's also a possibility Viciedo is not here next year. I think they hoped he would take a step forward this season. He's been better of late, but disappointing overall.

TaylorStSox
08-01-2013, 05:01 PM
That's what will happen if they don't move Rios. Viciedo to DH, Garcia to LF. Or maybe Viciedo to 1B, depending on how they feel about him. There's also a possibility Viciedo is not here next year. I think they hoped he would take a step forward this season. He's been better of late, but disappointing overall.

Why on earth would a rebuilding team get rid of Viciedo?

LITTLE NELL
08-01-2013, 05:07 PM
Why on earth would a rebuilding team get rid of Viciedo?

Maybe because he's not that good.

TaylorStSox
08-01-2013, 05:49 PM
Maybe because he's not that good.

Yeah, let's trade a 24 year old cost controlled player on a rebuilding team. Makes total sense. It's not like he's progressing or has good tools or has had MLB success. :scratch:

LITTLE NELL
08-01-2013, 06:12 PM
Yeah, let's trade a 24 year old cost controlled player on a rebuilding team. Makes total sense. It's not like he's progressing or has good tools or has had MLB success. :scratch:

There are no untouchables except for Sale on this team.

SoxSpeed22
08-01-2013, 07:10 PM
I'm not for trading Viciedo when he has regressed some. I would like to give him a chance, but if Hahn packaged Viciedo as part of a deal to get a better player, who is in his prime, I would be okay with that. Everything Hahn has done so far has had a clear thought process to it. I think he can make the Sox competitive next year (cue jokes saying 'they can't be any worse').

TaylorStSox
08-01-2013, 07:14 PM
There are no untouchables except for Sale on this team.

Obviously there aren't any untouchables, including Sale. There aren't any untouchables in baseball. You're not going to actively shop a player like Viciedo in hopes that you can maybe get a player with Viciedo's upside. That makes no sense. Hahn should be trying to find more Viciedo's.

LITTLE NELL
08-01-2013, 07:29 PM
Obviously there aren't any untouchables, including Sale. There aren't any untouchables in baseball. You're not going to actively shop a player like Viciedo in hopes that you can maybe get a player with Viciedo's upside. That makes no sense. Hahn should be trying to find more Viciedo's.

A year ago I would have agreed with you about Viciedo but I have seen no improvement this year from him. DH might be his position next year if they keep him.

Stanley
08-01-2013, 07:31 PM
Hahn should be trying to find more Viciedo's.

Oh, so you really do have a sense of humor!

SCCWS
08-01-2013, 07:43 PM
. Hahn should be trying to find more Viciedo's.

WHY??? He has regressed this year from last season. His power numbers will probably end up being 1/2 of last year. He is walking less and striking out more. Hopefully he will hit 15 HR and get 50 RBI. That is not corner outfield production. He also is probably the worst leftfielder based on range in the AL. So he really doesn't have a position that he can play other than DH and unless this year is just a really off year, he can't do that.

TaylorStSox
08-01-2013, 08:23 PM
WHY??? He has regressed this year from last season. His power numbers will probably end up being 1/2 of last year. He is walking less and striking out more. Hopefully he will hit 15 HR and get 50 RBI. That is not corner outfield production. He also is probably the worst leftfielder based on range in the AL. So he really doesn't have a position that he can play other than DH and unless this year is just a really off year, he can't do that.

He's 24 and in his second full year. He's dealt with injuries and he's been playing much better lately. He had a very good July while crushing good RH pitchers. You guys want to have patience with Beckham and he doesn't have anywhere near the talent Viciedo does. We're rebuilding. Have some patience.

PalehosePlanet
08-01-2013, 08:48 PM
A year ago I would have agreed with you about Viciedo but I have seen no improvement this year from him. DH might be his position next year if they keep him.

Come on Nell, you've watched enough ball to know that the sophmore jinx strikes about 3 out of every 4 players. I'm not saying Viciedo will definitely bounce back and realize his potential, but at just 24, and the fact that we have nothing better in the minors until at least 2015, let's have some patience. Maybe without the pressure of a pennant race and with reduced expectations the kid will relax and play better.

I say give him another year. And, if he tanks next year -- pun intended -- we go in a different direction.

SCCWS
08-01-2013, 09:49 PM
Come on Nell, you've watched enough ball to know that the sophmore jinx strikes about 3 out of every 4 players. I'm not saying Viciedo will definitely bounce back and realize his potential, but at just 24, and the fact that we have nothing better in the minors until at least 2015, let's have some patience. Maybe without the pressure of a pennant race and with reduced expectations the kid will relax and play better.

I say give him another year. And, if he tanks next year -- pun intended -- we go in a different direction.

Of the top 6 rookies in baseball in 2012, 5 of 6 are having comparable years this season. Only Wade Miley has dropped off from last yeae. But having said that, where do you want to play Viciedo next year. He is ranked as the worst LF in the AL based on range and also worst based on FP. I am not sure he will ever improve enough to be even adequate. Now he was an infielder moved to LF because he was bad at 3rd. That leaves DH as his only legitimate position. That may be the answer if they can move Dunn and Viciedo doubles ( lucky to get 50 RBI's this year) his power numbers.

PalehosePlanet
08-01-2013, 10:23 PM
Of the top 6 rookies in baseball in 2012, 5 of 6 are having comparable years this season. Only Wade Miley has dropped off from last yeae. But having said that, where do you want to play Viciedo next year. He is ranked as the worst LF in the AL based on range and also worst based on FP. I am not sure he will ever improve enough to be even adequate. Now he was an infielder moved to LF because he was bad at 3rd. That leaves DH as his only legitimate position. That may be the answer if they can move Dunn and Viciedo doubles ( lucky to get 50 RBI's this year) his power numbers.

He can alternate between DH/1B/LF next year. We have nothing better at the moment so we can be patient. I'd rather do that than pick up a stop gap veteran that definitely will not be a part of the future. And, again, if he falters and it's obvious he won't cut it, we can remedy that in the '14-'15 off season.

SI1020
08-02-2013, 12:32 AM
Of the top 6 rookies in baseball in 2012, 5 of 6 are having comparable years this season. Only Wade Miley has dropped off from last yeae. But having said that, where do you want to play Viciedo next year. He is ranked as the worst LF in the AL based on range and also worst based on FP. I am not sure he will ever improve enough to be even adequate. Now he was an infielder moved to LF because he was bad at 3rd. That leaves DH as his only legitimate position. That may be the answer if they can move Dunn and Viciedo doubles ( lucky to get 50 RBI's this year) his power numbers. No he wasn't bad at 3B. He was worse than that. The only hope for Viciedo was that he would hit. He is on a bit of a hot streak lately, but overall he has not met expectations. I share your concerns about Viciedo.


He's 24 and in his second full year. He's dealt with injuries and he's been playing much better lately. He had a very good July while crushing good RH pitchers. You guys want to have patience with Beckham and he doesn't have anywhere near the talent Viciedo does. We're rebuilding. Have some patience. Beckham has also not met expectations but at least he can field. Viciedo's best fielding position is DH.