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Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:02 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1665039-2014-mlb-mock-draft-early-look-at-next-years-1st-round

I hope that we draft Jacob Gatewood or Alex Jackson

34 Inch Stick
07-30-2013, 11:26 AM
find the athletic guy who splits his time as a football player and raw with questionable plate discipline and you have your white sox pick

Fastball23
07-30-2013, 11:33 AM
http://sbb.scout.com/2/1310090.html

JermaineDye05
07-30-2013, 12:14 PM
At this point, I'd just like to see the Sox get a top 5 pick for next year.

EMachine10
07-30-2013, 12:32 PM
At this point, I'd just like to see the Sox get a top 5 pick for next year.
I'd put money that it's a top 3 pick.

russ99
07-30-2013, 01:16 PM
I'd put money that it's a top 3 pick.

Me too. Jackson looks like a heck of a player, but I doubt he goes any later than #2.

The real question is if the Astros first group of good prospects coming in by the end of this season (Cosart & Villar are already up - soon to be followed by Springer, Singleton and Wojciechowski) push their record higher than Miami's.

shes
08-08-2013, 10:12 AM
Me too. Jackson looks like a heck of a player, but I doubt he goes any later than #2.

The real question is if the Astros first group of good prospects coming in by the end of this season (Cosart & Villar are already up - soon to be followed by Springer, Singleton and Wojciechowski) push their record higher than Miami's.

Houston has so much young talent. I'm envious. Aside from the mentioned who are MLB ready, there's Correa, Fulty, McCullers, Ruiz, Deshields, Santana...

They are going to have a quick turnaround from rebuilding to rebuilt if some of these projected studs pan out.

cws05champ
08-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Me too. Jackson looks like a heck of a player, but I doubt he goes any later than #2.

The real question is if the Astros first group of good prospects coming in by the end of this season (Cosart & Villar are already up - soon to be followed by Springer, Singleton and Wojciechowski) push their record higher than Miami's.
I'd be perfectly fine with Tyler Beede or Carlos Rodon. You put a near ready top of the rotation type guy in our system to pair with Sale, Danks, Quintana and Johnson. Santiago could be moved to a versatile bullpen role and the Sox have the makings of a Really good pitching staff.

I know the team needs hitting, but I think you can find some hitting cheaper on the market than you can top of the rotation pitchers.

ND_Sox_Fan
08-16-2013, 05:24 PM
find the athletic guy who splits his time as a football player and raw with questionable plate discipline and you have your white sox pick

During last Friday's radio interview with Hahn during the break in the double header, he explained this kind of historic drafting method. His said the Sox had historically allocated very few dollars toward signing draft picks, so they essentially played the lottery with some guys who had high ceilings, but were also high-risk/high-reward (read: lower cost) alternatives. He admitted that not too many of the lottery tickets the Sox purchased were winners.

He also said that we could expect a different drafting style going forward under his revised method of payroll/budgetary allocation, with a greater amount of money earmarked for the draft (and international signings).

Domeshot17
08-17-2013, 11:51 AM
I normally HATE the idea that you draft for a need, but Tyler Beede is a great fit for us. A true number 2 with number 1 potential and is RH, who would slot PERFECTLY into the 2. Sale-Beede-Danks-Quintana is a great 1-4.

Some really good hitters early in the draft, and as long as we pick in the top 6, whoever we take will instantly be our top prospect.

gr8mexico
09-26-2013, 11:08 PM
Well it's a 3rd pick in next years draft.
Lets hope they don't drop the ball

LoveYourSuit
09-27-2013, 11:59 PM
I don't trust this team drafting and developing position players.

Get the best stud arm available and hope to strike gold like they did with Sale.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-28-2013, 07:20 AM
I don't trust this team drafting and developing position players.

Get the best stud arm available and hope to strike gold like they did with Sale.

I would generally agree -- being a strong pitching, speed, and defense advocate -- but this team needs a top position player in the worst way, and hopefully one that develops into a star. Good position players are also important for fan engagement. Building gate around a pitcher is a tough thing to do.

Can the Sox develop a top position player is the question. Maybe they can get someone at the 3 pick who is a natural and does it on his own, though, admittedly, finding a fool-proof pick is near impossible.

ZombieRob
09-30-2013, 06:55 AM
http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft

Has the Sox talking Trea Turner

doublem23
09-30-2013, 11:44 PM
I'd put money that it's a top 3 pick.

1jUBbCgMWmE

http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft

Has the Sox talking Trea Turner

It's still early, yes, but right now, I'm hoping for Alex Jackson

rdivaldi
10-01-2013, 10:46 AM
It's still early, yes, but right now, I'm hoping for Alex Jackson

2014 looks to be a strong draft class, the Sox need to go with the best player available in every round.

Domeshot17
10-01-2013, 11:47 AM
I would have loved Trea Turner in the 6-10 range, but I don't think you take a lead-off guy with pick 3. Yes, the kid has pure 80 speed! But he is not going to hit for power and I don't think in a draft like this you take a guy at 3 who does not have superstar potential.

rdivaldi
10-01-2013, 11:52 AM
I would have loved Trea Turner in the 6-10 range, but I don't think you take a lead-off guy with pick 3. Yes, the kid has pure 80 speed! But he is not going to hit for power and I don't think in a draft like this you take a guy at 3 who does not have superstar potential.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with Turner, good kid, hard worker, a winner, etc. But that screams "safe pick".

Domeshot17
10-01-2013, 12:45 PM
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with Turner, good kid, hard worker, a winner, etc. But that screams "safe pick".

Agreed. To me, there are 3 guys I love, and 1 guy I keep an eye on. Then see who bombs this year and who shoots up the charts...

Carlos Rondon

Tyler Beede

Either of those 2 are fine, presuming no blow ups and they stay healthy. Both those guys are quick to the pros and behind Sale could provide a Verlander/Scherzer caliber 1-2 punch!!!

Offensively, I LOVE SS Jacob Gatewood. The ceiling on this kid, I would not be shocked if he went 1 or 2. He is that good. His power is special. His glove may play at SS, but even if he moves to 3rd, you could be looking at the next David Wright.

I keep an eye on Alex Jackson as well, because a catcher with his skills are rare.

Its early, but this is the right draft to have a high pick and a lot of money!

Lastly, a sleeper to keep an eye on to me is Michael Conforto... I don't know if he gets into the top 3... but this kid, I see a young Magglio Ordonez. Great control of the bat, good power, great eye, serviceable defensively, does not run that great, but he is going to hit. I had hoped he fell to us in round 2. We will have to see, I think he hits his way into round 1.

wilburaga
10-01-2013, 01:59 PM
Best relative available.

Seriously, I will scream if the Sox waste another draft pick on the son/daughter/nephew/niece of a Sox employee. From Schueler's daughter to Parent's kid they've all been busts. Complete and utter busts. Remember, three players the Sox drafted after Carey Schueler made the major leagues and one is still playing (Placido Polanco).

rdivaldi
10-02-2013, 09:16 AM
Agreed. To me, there are 3 guys I love, and 1 guy I keep an eye on. Then see who bombs this year and who shoots up the charts...

Carlos Rondon

Tyler Beede

Either of those 2 are fine, presuming no blow ups and they stay healthy. Both those guys are quick to the pros and behind Sale could provide a Verlander/Scherzer caliber 1-2 punch!!!

Offensively, I LOVE SS Jacob Gatewood. The ceiling on this kid, I would not be shocked if he went 1 or 2. He is that good. His power is special. His glove may play at SS, but even if he moves to 3rd, you could be looking at the next David Wright.

I keep an eye on Alex Jackson as well, because a catcher with his skills are rare.

Its early, but this is the right draft to have a high pick and a lot of money!

Lastly, a sleeper to keep an eye on to me is Michael Conforto... I don't know if he gets into the top 3... but this kid, I see a young Magglio Ordonez. Great control of the bat, good power, great eye, serviceable defensively, does not run that great, but he is going to hit. I had hoped he fell to us in round 2. We will have to see, I think he hits his way into round 1.

Beede is my guy going into 2014. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the #2 pick after Rondon. Alex Jackson is super as well.

rdivaldi
10-02-2013, 09:21 AM
Remember, three players the Sox drafted after Carey Schueler made the major leagues and one is still playing (Placido Polanco).

None of those players would have been difference makers with the White Sox. Why hold on to an insignificant fact for 20 years?

doublem23
10-02-2013, 09:23 AM
Best relative available.

Seriously, I will scream if the Sox waste another draft pick on the son/daughter/nephew/niece of a Sox employee. From Schueler's daughter to Parent's kid they've all been busts. Complete and utter busts. Remember, three players the Sox drafted after Carey Schueler made the major leagues and one is still playing (Placido Polanco).

OK, dude, the two picks you reference were at least in the mid-30th round if not later. Once you get to that point, it's like trying to throw a dart at a smaller dart while riding a horse from the length of a football field. Every team had 30-something shots at Polanco, too, and they all whiffed, that's the draft.

Also, LOL, if you think the Sox are the only teams that burn a couple of picks on nepotism from time to time. Baseball is one big Good Ol' Boys Club, that's just the way it is. There are so many better things, just baseball-wise, to scream about than a team punting a 36th round draft pick.

The Sox's problems with drafting have been their **** track record in the first couple of rounds, getting all hot and bothered about something that happens in round 15 and on is well, kind of pointless.

rdivaldi
10-02-2013, 09:48 AM
OK, dude, the two picks you reference were at least in the mid-30th round if not later. Once you get to that point, it's like trying to throw a dart at a smaller dart while riding a horse from the length of a football field. Every team had 30-something shots at Polanco, too, and they all whiffed, that's the draft.

Actually it was 1993, so the picks were in the mid 40's.

ZombieRob
10-02-2013, 11:37 PM
So is the draft the same as other pro sports and that they would pick 3rd in the 2, 3, 4 etc? And is this a deep draft?

rdivaldi
10-02-2013, 11:50 PM
So is the draft the same as other pro sports and that they would pick 3rd in the 2, 3, 4 etc? And is this a deep draft?

Yes, the only catch is that there are a few compensatory and competitive balance picks after the 1st and 2nd rounds. So instead of the 33rd pick of the 2nd round, we get the 40th. We will pick something like 74th in the 3rd round instead of 63rd.

The 2014 draft is viewed as extremely strong and deep. There will be some serious franchise-type talent at the 3rd pick.

russ99
10-03-2013, 08:43 AM
Unless he has some kind of setback next spring, or someone in the top 10 has a stellar 2014 season to bypass him, I can't see Houston taking anyone other than Rondon.

That leaves Miami to pick before the Sox, and there's no telling what they're looking for. If they go BPA, that would be Beede.

Kind of sucks that there's no 5-tool can't miss OF at the top of this draft, like a Byron Buxton. But I'd pick Jackson over Turner at 3 if both are on the board.

blandman
10-03-2013, 09:04 AM
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with Turner, good kid, hard worker, a winner, etc. But that screams "safe pick".

I agree he's probably not the third best prospect in the draft, but could you imagine if he and Tim Anderson both develop as elite up the middle players? Power aside, the upside isn't low.

sox1970
10-03-2013, 09:24 AM
Carlos Rodon. Row Don.

Not Rondon.

Please and thank you.

rdivaldi
10-03-2013, 09:30 AM
I agree he's probably not the third best prospect in the draft, but could you imagine if he and Tim Anderson both develop as elite up the middle players? Power aside, the upside isn't low.

That would be awesome of course. I agree he has upside, but I don't know if he has franchise player ability. Needless to say, I will be watching a ton of college ball this spring/summer.

SoxSpeed22
10-08-2013, 03:20 PM
IMO, you can never have too much pitching. If a pitcher happens to be the best guy on the board, go ahead and get him. The Sox don't need to get themselves in trouble by drafting inferior talent to fill a need. There are plenty of picks to go around, but they really need to hit on this #3 pick.

wilburaga
10-09-2013, 07:45 AM
OK, dude, the two picks you reference were at least in the mid-30th round if not later.

In the words of my favorite lumberjack, Dexter Morgan, don't 'dude' me.

Of course, the Sox draft woes revolve more around the early round disasters than the nepotism picks, but it sure seems the Sox drink at this well more than most teams. Schueler's daughter, Baines's kid, Ozzie's kid, Williams' kid, Parent's kid. Granted it's not the biggest problem they face, but it is the most easily remedied.

And if you weren't such a smugass ****, maybe this forum might be a more pleasant site to frequent.

doublem23
10-09-2013, 08:42 AM
In the words of my favorite lumberjack, Dexter Morgan, don't 'dude' me.

Of course, the Sox draft woes revolve more around the early round disasters than the nepotism picks, but it sure seems the Sox drink at this well more than most teams. Schueler's daughter, Baines's kid, Ozzie's kid, Williams' kid, Parent's kid. Granted it's not the biggest problem they face, but it is the most easily remedied.

And if you weren't such a smugass ****, maybe this forum might be a more pleasant site to frequent.

Chillax, bro, all those picks you reference were at least 20-30 rounds into the draft, not only is this not the biggest problem they face, it's probably also the least important. Oh no, the Sox burned a 36th round pick on Nick Parent, the horror!

Risk
10-09-2013, 09:13 AM
Chillax, bro, all those picks you reference were at least 20-30 rounds into the draft, not only is this not the biggest problem they face, it's probably also the least important. Oh no, the Sox burned a 36th round pick on Nick Parent, the horror!

Generally I agree with your argument, but for clarification, Williams' kid was a 6th rounder. Not that it really matters though.

Risk

doublem23
10-09-2013, 09:31 AM
Generally I agree with your argument, but for clarification, Williams' kid was a 6th rounder. Not that it really matters though.

Risk

No doubt, you are correct, I can tolerate criticism of the Ken Williams, Jr. pick but not if you're going to lump them all in one ball.

FWIW, it's not like the Sox whiffed on some game changer in the 2008 Draft. A quick glance shows the best player taken after Williams appears to be Andy Dirks.

If we're going to talk about what the Sox need to fix in terms of their brutally bad drafting and developing, I'll pick "Stop blowing early round draft picks on worthless players" 8 days a week before I pick "Nepotism in the 40th round"

Just my :twocents:

Risk
10-10-2013, 09:17 AM
If we're going to talk about what the Sox need to fix in terms of their brutally bad drafting and developing, I'll pick "Stop blowing early round draft picks on worthless players" 8 days a week before I pick "Nepotism in the 40th round"

Just my :twocents:

That's a perfectly reasonable position.

Risk

rdivaldi
10-24-2013, 09:25 AM
Since we probably won't have a shot at Rodon, Tyler Beede is on top of my wishlist.

(http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/10/24/5008564/2014-mlb-draft-profile-tyler-beede-rhp-vanderbilt)2014 MLB Draft Profile: Tyler Beede, RHP, Vanderbilt (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/10/24/5008564/2014-mlb-draft-profile-tyler-beede-rhp-vanderbilt)

blandman
10-30-2013, 05:31 PM
Here's ESPN's top 30 list. Insider required. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mlb-draft/post?id=1177

blandman
10-30-2013, 05:37 PM
Since we probably won't have a shot at Rodon, Tyler Beede is on top of my wishlist.

(http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/10/24/5008564/2014-mlb-draft-profile-tyler-beede-rhp-vanderbilt)2014 MLB Draft Profile: Tyler Beede, RHP, Vanderbilt (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/10/24/5008564/2014-mlb-draft-profile-tyler-beede-rhp-vanderbilt)

For the second round, you mean? He's probably a mid-late first rounder, but there's no way we should be taking him at 3. I know his velocity went up, but his control is pretty bad. He's not the kind of guy you take if you're drafting that high, especially in a draft with four or five other pitchers that have been throwing hard with the entire package. It's a good draft. No reason to reach.

I'd like to see us grab Alex Jackson. I know a lot of people see him moving positions, but if he sticks behind the plate he'd solve a lot for us. And that bat's gonna play no matter where he ends up.

rdivaldi
10-31-2013, 10:05 AM
For the second round, you mean? He's probably a mid-late first rounder, but there's no way we should be taking him at 3. I know his velocity went up, but his control is pretty bad. He's not the kind of guy you take if you're drafting that high, especially in a draft with four or five other pitchers that have been throwing hard with the entire package. It's a good draft. No reason to reach.

I'd like to see us grab Alex Jackson. I know a lot of people see him moving positions, but if he sticks behind the plate he'd solve a lot for us. And that bat's gonna play no matter where he ends up.

I think Beede is going to dominate this year. Vandy has a good track record of developing pitchers and he's got plenty to work with. If he doesn't show significant improvement in his control, then I agree that you don't take him with the 3rd overall pick. But I think the kid is going to be a total stud.

Domeshot17
10-31-2013, 10:58 AM
For the second round, you mean? He's probably a mid-late first rounder, but there's no way we should be taking him at 3. I know his velocity went up, but his control is pretty bad. He's not the kind of guy you take if you're drafting that high, especially in a draft with four or five other pitchers that have been throwing hard with the entire package. It's a good draft. No reason to reach.

I'd like to see us grab Alex Jackson. I know a lot of people see him moving positions, but if he sticks behind the plate he'd solve a lot for us. And that bat's gonna play no matter where he ends up.

(1) The list you posted is one of the rare times Beede has been outside of the top 5-10 picks. Beede has a chance to be special if he can get the command back.

(2) Just a quick note, your ESPN article was written by my buddy Chris! Awesome to see him rising!

cws05champ
10-31-2013, 04:00 PM
(1) The list you posted is one of the rare times Beede has been outside of the top 5-10 picks. Beede has a chance to be special if he can get the command back.

(2) Just a quick note, your ESPN article was written by my buddy Chris! Awesome to see him rising!
That's if he gets his command back. I am, or was a big fan of his coming into this year but his struggles with control is not what you want to see from your overall #3 pick.

I'll second the Jackson pick though....he could be a special player offensively even if he moves off catcher. A lot can happen in the 8 months before the draft though.

blandman
10-31-2013, 04:22 PM
That's if he gets his command back. I am, or was a big fan of his coming into this year but his struggles with control is not what you want to see from your overall #3 pick.

I'll second the Jackson pick though....he could be a special player offensively even if he moves off catcher. A lot can happen in the 8 months before the draft though.

Agreed. Nothing against Beede, if we were talking later in the draft his velocity is a great value. But it's a total red flag when you're picking that early, there are prospects with just as high a ceiling with no red flags.

sager729
11-06-2013, 12:53 PM
As of right now, my top choices would be

1. Carlos Rodon LHP
2. Jacob Gatewood SS
3. Trea Turner SS/CF
4. Alex Jackson C
5. Tyler Beede RHP

DonnieDarko
11-07-2013, 06:46 AM
Why so many people picking pitching in this thread? This team needs bats, if anything.

doublem23
11-07-2013, 08:26 AM
Why so many people picking pitching in this thread? This team needs bats, if anything.

Best Player Available

rdivaldi
11-07-2013, 09:12 AM
Why so many people picking pitching in this thread? This team needs bats, if anything.

When you are drafting at the top of the first round you do not draft for need, you take the best player available.

Bucky F. Dent
11-07-2013, 11:45 AM
We need help at absolutely every position. BPA!

Domeshot17
11-07-2013, 02:59 PM
MLB draft is ALWAYS BPA in early rounds. You simply have too many can't miss specs that bust to draft based on need.

ZombieRob
11-08-2013, 04:22 AM
When you are drafting at the top of the first round you do not draft for need, you take the best player available.
I'm with Dome on this. Sox need a Star Hitter. I'm still torn between Trea Turner and Alex Jackson.

doublem23
11-08-2013, 05:49 AM
I'm with Dome on this. Sox need a Star Hitter. I'm still torn between Trea Turner and Alex Jackson.

Uh, OK, but that's like exactly the opposite of what he wrote

SoxSpeed22
11-08-2013, 04:46 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wr_dFynlHhY/UaEnjDhk6jI/AAAAAAAAKfc/MKe3eYnpvOc/s320/PC1111.jpg

This is what happens when you draft for need early on.

TDog
11-10-2013, 12:35 PM
We need help at absolutely every position. BPA!

I've never been a fan of BPA (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bpa/AN01955). But drafting the best player available in the baseball draft can be a nebulous thing. The Twins drafted the best player in the 2001 draft when they took Joe Mauer, but at the time it was pretty much universally believed they passed up the best player to go for a local boy, leaving the best player to the Cubs, who picked second. And what a crossroads moment that was. Who knows how Chicago baseball history would have changed if the Twins had taken Mark Prior. Not only would the adventures of Mark Prior and the Cubs teams behind him been lost, but the Twins wouldn't have picked up Joe Nathan for A.J. Pierzynski, who the Giants would be unhappy with after being an AL All-Star with the Twins.

Maybe the Twins believed they were drafting the best player in the draft when they took Mauer. The Nationals, given their recent drafting positions, certainly drafted the players they thought were best available. But some teams lose out on the draft because they pick the best available player. It was a no-brainer for the Orioles to take Ben McDonald six places ahead of Frank Thomas in 1989. We would like to think the White Sox would have drafted Thomas if they had been drafting third, but if they were picking first, they likely would have taken McDonald.

You can look for the best player available, but there were 24 selections in the 2009 draft where Mike Trout was available. Of course, the White Sox picked before the Angels, but the Nationals passed on him twice, only once in taking Stephen Strasburg.

The draft is a crap shoot. Even if you are looking to take the best available player, no matter how competent your scouting is, there is no way of knowing who the best available player is on draft day.

SoxSpeed22
11-11-2013, 09:24 PM
I've never been a fan of BPA (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bpa/AN01955). But drafting the best player available in the baseball draft can be a nebulous thing. The Twins drafted the best player in the 2001 draft when they took Joe Mauer, but at the time it was pretty much universally believed they passed up the best player to go for a local boy, leaving the best player to the Cubs, who picked second. And what a crossroads moment that was. Who knows how Chicago baseball history would have changed if the Twins had taken Mark Prior. Not only would the adventures of Mark Prior and the Cubs teams behind him been lost, but the Twins wouldn't have picked up Joe Nathan for A.J. Pierzynski, who the Giants would be unhappy with after being an AL All-Star with the Twins.

Maybe the Twins believed they were drafting the best player in the draft when they took Mauer. The Nationals, given their recent drafting positions, certainly drafted the players they thought were best available. But some teams lose out on the draft because they pick the best available player. It was a no-brainer for the Orioles to take Ben McDonald six places ahead of Frank Thomas in 1989. We would like to think the White Sox would have drafted Thomas if they had been drafting third, but if they were picking first, they likely would have taken McDonald.

You can look for the best player available, but there were 24 selections in the 2009 draft where Mike Trout was available. Of course, the White Sox picked before the Angels, but the Nationals passed on him twice, only once in taking Stephen Strasburg.

The draft is a crap shoot. Even if you are looking to take the best available player, no matter how competent your scouting is, there is no way of knowing who the best available player is on draft day.
All of this is true. There are just so many variables that go into drafting and developing a player. There are also a lot of things that are up for conjecture when it comes to figuring out who the "best player available" is.
I still don't have too much faith in our player development (for position players), but hopefully the reinvesting will pay off.

SoxSpeed22
11-12-2013, 04:43 PM
10 picks in the first 10 rounds and $9.55 million to work with in the draft.
http://mlbdraftprospects.blogspot.com/2013/11/2014-mlb-draft-order.html?spref=tw

rdivaldi
12-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Nice little article going over some of the top players for next year's draft:

Next year's Draft deeper, packed with pitchers (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/led-by-north-carolina-states-carlos-rodon-mlbcoms-ranking-of-top-50-draft-prospects-revealed?ymd=20131204&content_id=64354604&vkey=news_cws)

cards press box
12-05-2013, 03:07 AM
When you are drafting at the top of the first round you do not draft for need, you take the best player available.

So, who is likely to be the best player available at #3?

I'm with Dome on this. Sox need a Star Hitter. I'm still torn between Trea Turner and Alex Jackson.

Might it be one of these guys?

doublem23
12-05-2013, 08:29 AM
Might it be one of these guys?

Obviously there's still a lot of time and baseball between now and the Draft, but if Jackson is still there at #3 you'd have a hard time making a case for someone else being BPA.

rdivaldi
12-05-2013, 09:54 AM
So, who is likely to be the best player available at #3?

Honestly, it's just too early to answer that. You never know who might get injured once the season starts.

Might it be one of these guys?

Absolutely.